05-30-2014 07:15 PM
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  1. iamtim's Avatar
    What you haven't explained is WHY the app needed to be removed in order to be fixed?
    I haven't, because I don't know. Neither do you. The only people who know are the developers who just might know a bit more about how their app works than we do. If they've decided to pull it now with WP 8.1 - knowing full well that they used a hack and had problems with GDR3 and did NOT pull it - isn't that telling you that there might be bigger problems? Why did they NOT pull it from the store before WP 8.1? The ONLY logical answer is that whatever hacks and tricks they pulled could be disastrous on WP 8.1.

    In addition, whatever big issues there are can be fixed without pulling the app.
    Are you a developer? Are you a developer for WhatsApp? My money is on "no" being the answer for both of them. That being the case, you do not know if the app could be fixed without pulling it. What if they discovered that on 8.1 - with the hacks and code they wrote - there was a chance that bigger problems could occur? And what if the only way to fix that was a massive re-write of significant portions of their app? Would you - as WhatsApp - want to keep the app available in that circumstance? Would you want the chance of someone starting a Twitter campaign against you because you left your app available and it erased all the info on a user's phone or something?

    Come on, instead of using your mind to harness anger and rise up against WhatsApp, consider ALL the possibilities. Keep your mind open.

    Now. All of that said, you asked me to call you out if you had put out any logical fallacies [sic]. I did, and you have failed to address it. Were your words simply lip service, designed to placate me into not posting in this thread any longer?
    dKp1977, badcat and sahib lopez like this.
    05-30-2014 01:52 PM
  2. bijak_riyandi's Avatar
    I'm going to endure myself to stay awake at 0:00 AM Sunday, 1 June 2014 (UTC+7, Western Indonesian Time) for this strike

    #BringBackWhatsAppForWP
    05-30-2014 02:34 PM
  3. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    I haven't, because I don't know. Neither do you. The only people who know are the developers who just might know a bit more about how their app works than we do. If they've decided to pull it now with WP 8.1 - knowing full well that they used a hack and had problems with GDR3 and did NOT pull it - isn't that telling you that there might be bigger problems? Why did they NOT pull it from the store before WP 8.1? The ONLY logical answer is that whatever hacks and tricks they pulled could be disastrous on WP 8.1.



    Are you a developer? Are you a developer for WhatsApp? My money is on "no" being the answer for both of them. That being the case, you do not know if the app could be fixed without pulling it. What if they discovered that on 8.1 - with the hacks and code they wrote - there was a chance that bigger problems could occur? And what if the only way to fix that was a massive re-write of significant portions of their app? Would you - as WhatsApp - want to keep the app available in that circumstance? Would you want the chance of someone starting a Twitter campaign against you because you left your app available and it erased all the info on a user's phone or something?

    Come on, instead of using your mind to harness anger and rise up against WhatsApp, consider ALL the possibilities. Keep your mind open.

    Now. All of that said, you asked me to call you out if you had put out any logical fallacies [sic]. I did, and you have failed to address it. Were your words simply lip service, designed to placate me into not posting in this thread any longer?
    Hmm, guess you're right. Joe Belfiore probably didn't know what he was talking about when he said it affects update 3 and not 8.1 /s
    In addition, was the [sic] really needed?
    Let's start with this one: you said, "The issue is, it seems like its not an app problem but a business deal or something. I don't know, but do you remember Joe Belfiore saying that the app is a problem,with GDR 3 and that 8.1 uses a different notification,core..."

    We all know that WhatsApp has had notification problems on WP since... well, ever. We also know that WhatsApp is still using the volume hack even as recently as its most current version. You state you recall Joe Belfiore saying that it was a known problem with GDR3 and that WP 8.1 uses a totally different notification core.

    So... if WhatsApp is known to use a hack and had known problems with notifications in GDR3, given that WP 8.1 uses a different notification core, isn't the logical jump that there must be really big, systemic issues with WhatsApp on WP 8.1 - as both WhatsApp and Microsoft confirmed when then pulled the app - and not some shady business deal that is certain to anger loyal Windows Phone WhatsApp users? No, that is an assertion supported by nothing since Whatsapp works fine for all intents and purposes on 8.1. If it was such a risk, Microsoft could have wiped it from everyone's phone

    Isn't, then, the next logical jump that really big, systemic issues would require significant work and modifications to the application, larger than a quick fix, which might take some time to properly implement and test? Couldn't also an illogical jump be that maybe WhatsApp wants to take this opportunity to finally correct the hack they've been using [a hack, which is no longer in use you might have noticed.], which would require an entire new routine to be coded and tested otherwise there wouldn't have been a hack used in the first place?Apps are not physical goods. They do not need to be removed to be fixed. What ever world shattering problem it is could have been fixed without the app being pulled.

    All of the logical evidence points to really big, systemic issues with the app. No one knows what is actually happening behind the scenes with any app they put on their phone except for that app's developers. No one sees the source code, no one knows what tricks, shortcuts, or hacks were used in writing that application, but we DO know that WhatsApp did use known hacks. How do you logically jump from "wow, this app is messed up, because it's messed up they don't want anyone else using it, and they're trying to fix it" to a shady business deal that seems to purposely eff with loyal users?
    Hopefully this campaign will lead them to issue a statement or something...that's all.
    05-30-2014 02:37 PM
  4. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    I haven't, because I don't know. Neither do you. The only people who know are the developers who just might know a bit more about how their app works than we do. If they've decided to pull it now with WP 8.1 - knowing full well that they used a hack and had problems with GDR3 and did NOT pull it - isn't that telling you that there might be bigger problems? Why did they NOT pull it from the store before WP 8.1? The ONLY logical answer is that whatever hacks and tricks they pulled could be disastrous on WP 8.1.



    Are you a developer? Are you a developer for WhatsApp? My money is on "no" being the answer for both of them. That being the case, you do not know if the app could be fixed without pulling it. What if they discovered that on 8.1 - with the hacks and code they wrote - there was a chance that bigger problems could occur? And what if the only way to fix that was a massive re-write of significant portions of their app? Would you - as WhatsApp - want to keep the app available in that circumstance? Would you want the chance of someone starting a Twitter campaign against you because you left your app available and it erased all the info on a user's phone or something?

    Come on, instead of using your mind to harness anger and rise up against WhatsApp, consider ALL the possibilities. Keep your mind open.

    Now. All of that said, you asked me to call you out if you had put out any logical fallacies [sic]. I did, and you have failed to address it. Were your words simply lip service, designed to placate me into not posting in this thread any longer?
    Do you have to be so $%/ing rude?
    05-30-2014 02:37 PM
  5. borasar's Avatar
    Company acquisitions are not some magic thing that occurs instantly. Facebook and Whatsapp are not yet together, just like Microsoft and Nokia before April
    You are comparing an acquisition of a division of a foreign and multinational public company that required shareholder approval, two regulator approvals, not to mention a tax issue in India and general international tax planning with an acquisition of a private company that is based in US. Two very different things.
    05-30-2014 02:41 PM
  6. bijak_riyandi's Avatar
    2 weeks without Whatsapp... Time to trash our Windows Phones and jump ship to Android #RIPWindowsPhone
    this is why we're campaigning: to avoid more people like this
    05-30-2014 02:46 PM
  7. borasar's Avatar
    Hmm, guess you're right. Joe Belfiore probably didn't know what he was talking about when he said it affects update 3 and not 8.1 /s
    In addition, was the [sic] really needed?

    Hopefully this campaign will lead them to issue a statement or something...that's all.
    The music api hack is still being used, just not to the same extent as before.
    05-30-2014 02:49 PM
  8. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    You are comparing an acquisition of a division of a foreign and multinational public company that required shareholder approval, two regulator approvals, not to mention a tax issue in India and general international tax planning with an acquisition of a private company that is based in US. Two very different things.
    Facebook Seeks EU Antitrust Review of WhatsApp Deal - WSJ
    05-30-2014 02:49 PM
  9. pranayhotkar's Avatar
    Let this campaign reach masses and eventually the Microsoft and what's app team,who is working on what's app app for windows phone :) 😊
    05-30-2014 02:56 PM
  10. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    Oh and no one bother Tom Warren or Daniel Rubino #(Or Sam Sabri or Mary Jo Foley or whoever) That's just dumb
    05-30-2014 02:58 PM
  11. borasar's Avatar
    Fair enough, but "moreover, the decision of the European Union will in no way prevent the closure of the acquisition deal" this was taken as precautionary measure as WA does not generate enough revenues to require actual clearance from EU commission, so still different thresholds and complexities for approval and you still haven't factored in legal, tax, public entity, which all complicate things significantly.
    05-30-2014 02:59 PM
  12. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    Fair enough, but "moreover, the decision of the European Union will in no way prevent the closure of the acquisition deal" this was taken as precautionary measure as WA does not generate enough revenues to require actual clearance from EU commission, so still different thresholds and complexities for approval and you still haven't factored in legal, tax, public entity, which all complicate things significantly.
    The point is that Facebook =/= whatsapp
    05-30-2014 03:14 PM
  13. borasar's Avatar
    The point is that Facebook =/= whatsapp
    The point is, since this is a review and not approval, the deal is likely not conditional on it and possibly closed and Facebook=WA.
    The point is, using MS acquisition of a Nokia division as an explanation for why facebook =/=WA is completely wrong as they were two drastically different deals from the execution perspective.
    The point is, one way or the other, you really think Facebook can't influence WA at this point?!

    Btw we're still waiting for the "business deal" explanation from you
    05-30-2014 03:21 PM
  14. iamtim's Avatar
    Do you have to be so $%/ing rude?
    I'm only replying in kind. :)
    05-30-2014 03:27 PM
  15. iamtim's Avatar
    In addition, was the [sic] really needed?
    Yes. You said "logical fallacies" instead of "illogical fallacies". In order to quote you in my reply without making it look like I made the error, [sic] is necessary.
    05-30-2014 03:31 PM
  16. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    The point is, since this is a review and not approval, the deal is likely not conditional on it and possibly closed and Facebook=WA.
    The point is, using MS acquisition of a Nokia division as an explanation for why facebook =/=WA is completely wrong as they were two drastically different deals from the execution perspective.
    The point is, one way or the other, you really think Facebook can't influence WA at this point?!

    Btw we're still waiting for the "business deal" explanation from you
    Facebook's acquisition of messaging service WhatsApp is facing a potential antitrust review in Europe, an unexpected twist to a $19 billion deal that has been approved in the U.S. but raised concerns among Europe's telecom companies
    05-30-2014 03:32 PM
  17. bionicgt's Avatar
    I'm going to endure myself to stay awake at 0:00 AM Sunday, 1 June 2014 (UTC+7, Western Indonesian Time) for this strike

    #BringBackWhatsAppForWP

    Thank you!!!! *.*
    05-30-2014 03:35 PM
  18. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    Yes. You said "logical fallacies" instead of "illogical fallacies". In order to quote you in my reply without making it look like I made the error, [sic] is necessary.
    No. The correct term is logical fallacies
    05-30-2014 03:46 PM
  19. iamtim's Avatar
    No. The correct term is logical fallacies
    Huh. You're right. I stand corrected. My apologies.
    05-30-2014 03:49 PM
  20. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    Huh. You're right. I stand corrected. My apologies.
    No problem.
    05-30-2014 03:50 PM
  21. borasar's Avatar
    The approval is not necessary since WA doesn't have enough revenues to warrant such approval. And even if it was necessary, the approval thresholds would have been very different between an acquisition of a large chunk of Nokia and a WA acquisition, due to revenues and where the companies are based.

    The deal can close without this review as the approval isn't necessary, this is a precautionary measure that they are taking to avoid the telcos going after them after the fact.

    I'm still however waiting on you countering the other differences I've stated, you seem to be hanging on to this one regulatory thing cause it's the easiest to Google.

    Bottom line is, Facebook acquisition of WA is totally different from MS acquisition of a large chunk of Nokia, so one should have never been mentioned as support for why the other has or hasn't closed.
    05-30-2014 03:56 PM
  22. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    The approval is not necessary since WA doesn't have enough revenues to warrant such approval. And even if it was necessary, the approval thresholds would have been very different between an acquisition of a large chunk of Nokia and a WA acquisition, due to revenues and where the companies are based.

    The deal can close without this review as the approval isn't necessary, this is a precautionary measure that they are taking to avoid the telcos going after them after the fact.

    I'm still however waiting on you countering the other differences I've stated, you seem to be hanging on to this one regulatory thing cause it's the easiest to Google.

    Bottom line is, Facebook acquisition of WA is totally different from MS acquisition of a large chunk of Nokia, so one should have never been mentioned as support for why the other has or hasn't closed.
    It hasn't been closed till all the bodies have been appeased
    Last edited by Ebuka Allison; 05-30-2014 at 04:16 PM.
    05-30-2014 04:04 PM
  23. borasar's Avatar
    It hasn't been closed till all the bodies have been appealed
    There is no appeal, because there was no rulling.
    The approval wasn't required. The difference between getting clearance and getting an opinion.
    Let me ask you this, what is the latest by which this deal must close? And what happens if it doesn't?
    05-30-2014 04:08 PM
  24. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    There is no appeal, because there was no rulling.
    The approval wasn't required. The difference between getting clearance and getting an opinion.
    Let me ask you this, what is the latest by which this deal must close? And what happens if it doesn't?
    Sorry, typo. I meant appeased. I don't know, I don't know and this is irrelevant. We didn't know about Apple/ Beats, MS/Skype/Nokia and Google/Moto. It changes nothing. Approval is needed for mergers to through. This is boring and I'm going away now.
    05-30-2014 04:18 PM
  25. borasar's Avatar
    Sorry, typo. I meant appeased. I don't know, I don't know and this is irrelevant. We didn't know about Apple/ Beats, MS/Skype/Nokia and Google/Moto. It changes nothing. Approval is needed for mergers to through. This is boring and I'm going away now.
    I guess that's hard to Google? It's actually relevant since the deal has to close very soon or Facebook has to pay $1B to WA for not closing the deal on time. So given that, do you think Facebook would put an unnecessary condition into this deal that can potentially prevent it from closing on time?

    Lawyers: "Hey Mark, this deal doesn't actually need EU approval, but we gonna go ahead and put this as a condition for closing anyway. Btw if we don't get the approval, which we don't need, the deal won't close and you'll have to pay $1B to whatsapp"


    Approval isn't needed, they are getting an opinion, since the deal can close without it. I've shown it to you and you are ignoring it. Also this wasn't a merger, this was an acquisition. If this was a merger it would take longer from the legal and tax standpoint. If you're going to be arguing technicalities at least get that right.

    I guess it's boring when you lose arguments and don't know what you're talking about. iamtim was adult enough to admit when he was wrong, you clearly don't have that in you.

    I'm done, have a good one!
    05-30-2014 04:31 PM
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