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10-11-2018 11:35 AM
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  1. OsmiousH's Avatar
    I believe this might be a bit unrealistic, and maybe a bit expensive for the company but oh well...

    The first thing I would do is arrange a 'dream phone' competition and arrange it in schools/colleges (Kids are pretty creative). Taking those designs into account and checking them I'd see the best ones.

    I would ask google to make their app suite (google maps/ youtube/ google chrome etc.) support windows phone, lets face it, we can't live without them. I'd also ask most social networks to at least port their ios apps to windows (Instagram). If they refuse, I'd ask Microsoft's own engineers to create those apps with their public APIs or at least web wrappers.

    Then I would divide the phone's creation into teams: Experience, Design, Connectivity, Quality, Longevity and Performance. Experience would take care of making the device easy to use and focus mostly on usability. The Design team would make the device look elegant. Connectivity team would add support for every single device they can: smart lights, smart cars, smartwatches etc. and better wifi as compared to other phones. The quality team would make the device have a premium feel, from unboxing to holding the phone for the first time, longevity team would focus on making the device good enough to survive in an average person's use cases. The performance team would try to optimize the device to make the device fast and have a long battery life etc.

    The phone would have an android and a windows option, just to stay safe.

    Then comes marketing, I'd launch it under the well established Surface name - the Surface Phone. the device should have a short and awesome motto like "The Phone for Everyone" or "The Ultimate Phone". Now I'd launch an ad campaign and focus more on the phone's experience rather than specs (Most people don't care about that).The ads should feature the tagline, You've tried windows on your PC, time to use it on your phone, or something like that. Every single phone image should look professional and the phone should look cool.

    Then i'd send those phones to most unboxing channels before launch, free advertisement right??? I'd send both android and windows versions.

    The price doesn't matter much to most people apparantly (iPhone X and Note 8) but still to be safe I'd preferably keep it under $700, that's not necessary though.

    the launch date would be in the start of summer vacations, that's when most people (teens) buy new phones.

    remember that the feasibility of this project is indeed questionable and I'm welcome to suggestions .

    tl;dr: Design an awesome windows phone, Ask Google and social networks for apps, market it right and launch it before summer vacations.
    11-27-2017 02:38 AM
  2. Ryujingt3's Avatar
    I believe this might be a bit unrealistic, and maybe a bit expensive for the company but oh well...

    The first thing I would do is arrange a 'dream phone' competition and arrange it in schools/colleges (Kids are pretty creative). Taking those designs into account and checking them I'd see the best ones.

    I would ask google to make their app suite (google maps/ youtube/ google chrome etc.) support windows phone, lets face it, we can't live without them. I'd also ask most social networks to at least port their ios apps to windows (Instagram). If they refuse, I'd ask Microsoft's own engineers to create those apps with their public APIs or at least web wrappers.

    Then I would divide the phone's creation into teams: Experience, Design, Connectivity, Quality, Longevity and Performance. Experience would take care of making the device easy to use and focus mostly on usability. The Design team would make the device look elegant. Connectivity team would add support for every single device they can: smart lights, smart cars, smartwatches etc. and better wifi as compared to other phones. The quality team would make the device have a premium feel, from unboxing to holding the phone for the first time, longevity team would focus on making the device good enough to survive in an average person's use cases. The performance team would try to optimize the device to make the device fast and have a long battery life etc.

    The phone would have an android and a windows option, just to stay safe.

    Then comes marketing, I'd launch it under the well established Surface name - the Surface Phone. the device should have a short and awesome motto like "The Phone for Everyone" or "The Ultimate Phone". Now I'd launch an ad campaign and focus more on the phone's experience rather than specs (Most people don't care about that).The ads should feature the tagline, You've tried windows on your PC, time to use it on your phone, or something like that. Every single phone image should look professional and the phone should look cool.

    Then i'd send those phones to most unboxing channels before launch, free advertisement right??? I'd send both android and windows versions.

    The price doesn't matter much to most people apparantly (iPhone X and Note 8) but still to be safe I'd preferably keep it under $700, that's not necessary though.

    the launch date would be in the start of summer vacations, that's when most people (teens) buy new phones.

    remember that the feasibility of this project is indeed questionable and I'm welcome to suggestions .

    tl;dr: Design an awesome windows phone, Ask Google and social networks for apps, market it right and launch it before summer vacations.
    Nice try, but if it has to run Android as well then you've already failed. There is also no way Google would release proper apps for the platform either. Sorry.
    11-27-2017 07:54 AM
  3. OsmiousH's Avatar
    Nice try, but if it has to run Android as well then you've already failed. There is also no way Google would release proper apps for the platform either. Sorry.
    I have considered both of the statements you have given and here is my reasoning for these decisions.

    Any device that will run ONLY windows will be ignored by 90% of the market (Not based on statistics, rather on experience and personal judgments) and so not get a large consumer base or a fan base, destroying MSFT's reputation in the mobile market further, and a device that runs android, would grab a larger market, especially under the surface names, giving MSFT the opportunity to slowly shift these 'premium' devices to Windows only.

    Furthermore, I do believe that it is highly unlikely that Google will add their apps for windows, but this might change due to two reasons. Mutual support, and User requests: For the mutual support part, as this phone will feature android, it is possible that Google to save their name (as having a hand in this device) might port their existing app to the other variant of this phone. Also, the people using the Windows phone variant of this Surface phone might ask Google to port it to Windows.

    Ofcourse, I do not say that my plan is perfect and I will, with no doubt consider your arguments IF I am made CEO of MSFT (Here's hoping)
    aximtreo likes this.
    11-27-2017 09:32 AM
  4. SolitarySnail's Avatar
    I agree. There is no way to close the app gap between Android and Windows 10 (M) unless 1. the user base increases tremendously, 2. iOS adds app support, or 3. MS steps up their game and entices major software companies- all of which are highly unlikely, if not, entirely impossible.
    11-27-2017 10:24 PM
  5. OsmiousH's Avatar
    I agree. There is no way to close the app gap between Android and Windows 10 (M) unless 1. the user base increases tremendously, 2. iOS adds app support, or 3. MS steps up their game and entices major software companies- all of which are highly unlikely, if not, entirely impossible.
    This Armchair forum really puts us in Nadella's boots!

    To be honest, we all know windows 10 mobile is dead, dead as it will ever be due to the lack of apps, but, in some cases (eg. Samsung Gear) people do ignore app problems if they are offered a superior experience to other phones, especially design wise. This is the only apparent way MSFT can save Win10m.

    This is how the user base can be increased, forcing devs to port their apps or create new ones, iOS may never add app support but MSFT has a ton of tools for developers to make their apps exist on Windows store (Centennial, Visual Studio, Xamarin etc.)
    11-28-2017 02:00 AM
  6. Ryujingt3's Avatar
    This Armchair forum really puts us in Nadella's boots!

    To be honest, we all know windows 10 mobile is dead, dead as it will ever be due to the lack of apps, but, in some cases (eg. Samsung Gear) people do ignore app problems if they are offered a superior experience to other phones, especially design wise. This is the only apparent way MSFT can save Win10m.

    This is how the user base can be increased, forcing devs to port their apps or create new ones, iOS may never add app support but MSFT has a ton of tools for developers to make their apps exist on Windows store (Centennial, Visual Studio, Xamarin etc.)
    The easiest thing for MS to do is not have the device run either W10M OR Android but do what they did with a very early Insider build. This allowed W10M (at that time) to also run APK files because MS had included a virtualised version of Android as part of W10M. Pretty much everyone went crazy (in a good way) and heralded W10M as (now) the best mobile platform..ever.

    MS, in typical fashion, removed this feature in the next Insider build but to this day, still, people post on this forum asking how to run an APK Android program on a Windows phone.

    To have saved Windows phone MS needed these things:

    Marketing people who cared
    Developers who cared
    Consumers who cared

    It didn't have them then, it doesn't have them now and despite your best efforts, and that of everyone else on this particular forum, it won't have them in the future either. Unfortunately we just have to accept what we have and anyone who wants more needs to really move to Android or iOS.

    Also, don't get me wrong, I have a W10M device and I won't be switching to Android or iOS anytime soon. I'm also a realist and I've made peace with MS and the fact that they don't care about W10M any longer.
    aximtreo and ZantReve like this.
    11-28-2017 04:49 AM
  7. OsmiousH's Avatar
    The easiest thing for MS to do is not have the device run either W10M OR Android but do what they did with a very early Insider build. This allowed W10M (at that time) to also run APK files because MS had included a virtualised version of Android as part of W10M. Pretty much everyone went crazy (in a good way) and heralded W10M as (now) the best mobile platform..ever.

    MS, in typical fashion, removed this feature in the next Insider build but to this day, still, people post on this forum asking how to run an APK Android program on a Windows phone.

    To have saved Windows phone MS needed these things:

    Marketing people who cared
    Developers who cared
    Consumers who cared

    It didn't have them then, it doesn't have them now and despite your best efforts, and that of everyone else on this particular forum, it won't have them in the future either. Unfortunately we just have to accept what we have and anyone who wants more needs to really move to Android or iOS.

    Also, don't get me wrong, I have a W10M device and I won't be switching to Android or iOS anytime soon. I'm also a realist and I've made peace with MS and the fact that they don't care about W10M any longer.
    Those are impressive arguments, and I believe they removed APK support because of Google being mad at them for adding the feature in the first place.

    Though this, I do believe that there is a way for Win10m to still, at least to some extent, compete with other manufacturers. All MSFT needs is consumers... Although this seems highly optimistic (It is a bit of an optimistic view), Win10m doesn't only lack apps, it lacks users which makes developers wary of making their apps for the platform. If, somehow, MSFT gets a large user base, developers will by themselves create apps for Win10m without any persuasion by the company itself. Also, Google will also be forced to create apps for the platform (Google Apps for iOS... remember).

    Getting a large user base is the hard part, without android is even harder, That is why I constantly emphasize MSFT releasing a surface phone that runs both android and windows. Also, by creating an awesome device that appeals to the majority of users and marketing it right, MSFT still has a chance, despite their reputation. Maybe they can do what Luxottica does and don't market it as a Microsoft phone, but a phone from another company (seemingly) not from Microsoft. Also, another path MSFT could take is the razer one, using a well established brand (Surface) and launching a phone under it, because, Razer and mobile phones don't make sense... but... they pulled it off.

    Every cloud has a silver lining right...
    aximtreo likes this.
    11-28-2017 05:05 AM
  8. TechFreak1's Avatar
    Relying on android is not the way to go, if ever.

    UWP is the way to go as their ENTIRE ecosystem relies on UWP.

    But Microsoft has continued to disparage their own ecosystem for short term gains.
    aximtreo and Jaroslav Houdek like this.
    11-28-2017 08:14 PM
  9. vEEP pEEP's Avatar
    I believe this might be a bit unrealistic, and maybe a bit expensive for the company but oh well...

    The first thing I would do is arrange a 'dream phone' competition and arrange it in schools/colleges (Kids are pretty creative). Taking those designs into account and checking them I'd see the best ones.

    I would ask google to make their app suite (google maps/ youtube/ google chrome etc.) support windows phone, lets face it, we can't live without them. I'd also ask most social networks to at least port their ios apps to windows (Instagram). If they refuse, I'd ask Microsoft's own engineers to create those apps with their public APIs or at least web wrappers.

    Then I would divide the phone's creation into teams: Experience, Design, Connectivity, Quality, Longevity and Performance. Experience would take care of making the device easy to use and focus mostly on usability. The Design team would make the device look elegant. Connectivity team would add support for every single device they can: smart lights, smart cars, smartwatches etc. and better wifi as compared to other phones. The quality team would make the device have a premium feel, from unboxing to holding the phone for the first time, longevity team would focus on making the device good enough to survive in an average person's use cases. The performance team would try to optimize the device to make the device fast and have a long battery life etc.

    The phone would have an android and a windows option, just to stay safe.

    Then comes marketing, I'd launch it under the well established Surface name - the Surface Phone. the device should have a short and awesome motto like "The Phone for Everyone" or "The Ultimate Phone". Now I'd launch an ad campaign and focus more on the phone's experience rather than specs (Most people don't care about that).The ads should feature the tagline, You've tried windows on your PC, time to use it on your phone, or something like that. Every single phone image should look professional and the phone should look cool.

    Then i'd send those phones to most unboxing channels before launch, free advertisement right??? I'd send both android and windows versions.

    The price doesn't matter much to most people apparantly (iPhone X and Note 8) but still to be safe I'd preferably keep it under $700, that's not necessary though.

    the launch date would be in the start of summer vacations, that's when most people (teens) buy new phones.

    remember that the feasibility of this project is indeed questionable and I'm welcome to suggestions .

    tl;dr: Design an awesome windows phone, Ask Google and social networks for apps, market it right and launch it before summer vacations.
    Love you enthusiasm! I would love to see someone else like HP take of the OS and develop it further. Not sure I trust MS anymore. But I welcome them to try again!
    aximtreo likes this.
    11-28-2017 08:58 PM
  10. Jonny Kowalczyk's Avatar
    If I was Microsoft I would say right - allow Google apps on Windows Phone or we will remove Microsoft Word, PowerPoint, Excel, Outlook and all Microsoft Office apps from Android and IOS and we will Block them from running on Google Chrome. - People need these apps there are nothing else like them and they would reconsider buying chromeBooks and Macs if they could not run them.
    aximtreo and Paul Gorski like this.
    11-29-2017 07:08 AM
  11. OsmiousH's Avatar
    If I was Microsoft I would say right - allow Google apps on Windows Phone or we will remove Microsoft Word, PowerPoint, Excel, Outlook and all Microsoft Office apps from Android and IOS and we will Block them from running on Google Chrome. - People need these apps there are nothing else like them and they would reconsider buying chromeBooks and Macs if they could not run them.
    There could be 2 reactions to this... The world boycotting either MSFT or Google. Although a good strategy, it is just too risky and bold to take, plus, people depending on having MSFT apps on their android phone would unnecessarily be 'punished' for Google's actions. Also, MSFT office is so commonly used in offices (Saw that one coming) that it might make a lot of people lose their jobs due to 'technical difficulties'

    Ofcourse, these are my own opinions and the outcome may be different... Make me the real CEO and i'll try and see
    aximtreo and Philip Bondzie like this.
    11-29-2017 10:52 AM
  12. OsmiousH's Avatar
    Love you enthusiasm! I would love to see someone else like HP take of the OS and develop it further. Not sure I trust MS anymore. But I welcome them to try again!
    Windows is not open-source, so HP developing it further seems unlikely, though this Andromeda OS seems like a good idea to support the future of Windows phones, especially if it's modular, as rumours state.
    11-29-2017 10:53 AM
  13. OsmiousH's Avatar
    Relying on android is not the way to go, if ever.

    UWP is the way to go as their ENTIRE ecosystem relies on UWP.

    But Microsoft has continued to disparage their own ecosystem for short term gains.
    I do not say that MSFT should stoop building windows phones... I just say that it should give an android option for the same phones, with no differences, excluding the OS. This is the only apparent way MSFT can improve their mobile user base and have a shot at shifting people to Windows phone... Plan Ahead!
    11-29-2017 10:55 AM
  14. Ryujingt3's Avatar
    If I was Microsoft I would say right - allow Google apps on Windows Phone or we will remove Microsoft Word, PowerPoint, Excel, Outlook and all Microsoft Office apps from Android and IOS and we will Block them from running on Google Chrome. - People need these apps there are nothing else like them and they would reconsider buying chromeBooks and Macs if they could not run them.
    MS are most likely willing to have Google apps on WP phone but Google won't do that. Why would they? Google make their own phones now and possibly would see that move as a threat to that or their overall dominance in the mobile space.

    I do not say that MSFT should stoop building windows phones... I just say that it should give an android option for the same phones, with no differences, excluding the OS. This is the only apparent way MSFT can improve their mobile user base and have a shot at shifting people to Windows phone... Plan Ahead!
    I still think allowing Android is basically MS giving in. To be fair though, look at BlackBerry. They did exactly that and now they make Android phones under the BlackBerry brand and they survived. The just got swallowed up by 'Android' as an ecosystem. Chances are MS would sadly have to do the same in order to remain relevant but what's even worse is that any MS phone running Android phone would be known just as an Android phone consumers because they don't really care who makes it, it's all the same OS to them.

    Microsoft's whole stigma of being boring and only useful for boring work tasks is also not helping. Google and Apple don't have this association, but MS do. And it works against them, no matter how hard they try.
    dgrn23 likes this.
    11-29-2017 10:10 PM
  15. TechFreak1's Avatar
    I do not say that MSFT should stoop building windows phones... I just say that it should give an android option for the same phones, with no differences, excluding the OS. This is the only apparent way MSFT can improve their mobile user base and have a shot at shifting people to Windows phone... Plan Ahead!
    Er... still not going to work.

    A) If you are going to develop an android app and be able target two platforms alongside ios thus saving resources and money, why would you want to shift from that scenario of higher profits?

    That is what happened and the Android emulator in some builds actually ran far to well. Not to mention it's detrimental to UWP development.

    B) Microsoft has EOL'd Windows Phone.

    Currently the way I see it, there is plan or outlines of a plan but there is no detail or clear definition of a transitional course. Microsoft appears to think they can continue to start over, but no... they can't.

    Why?

    Because they crossed the line, as you can see they cannot restart over. It's either focus on UWP or go bankrupt. Because where else are they going to go?

    Everything Microsoft has been working coverges with Windows 10. Beyond that there is no other pathway other than UWP.

    They can't focus on infrastructure and productivity indefinitely as it's not sustainable. You need a diverse portfolio to offset losses and with slimmer portfolio it's not possible, case in point Blackberry (formerly RIM) and IBM just to name a few goliaths who at one point where thought to big to fail.

    So what happens if Microsoft has pretty abysmal quarter with just infrastructure and productivity, they will have to lay off staff as that is the easiest way to increase cash flow.

    Now with reduced staff, the workload increases and staff moral decreases which results in a net loss of productivity, thus increasing risks of having another poor quarter and the cycle can continue until Microsoft has to file for bankruptcy or rely on goodwill investment (i.e similiar scenario to Microsoft investing in Apple to keep Apple afloat). This is not theory, it's fact and has happened to many corporations.

    windows-10-convergence-2.jpg
    Laura Knotek, inurear and EspHack like this.
    11-30-2017 07:21 AM
  16. the_moesiah's Avatar
    Relying on android is not the way to go, if ever.

    UWP is the way to go as their ENTIRE ecosystem relies on UWP.

    But Microsoft has continued to disparage their own ecosystem for short term gains.
    Therein lies the problem. Ideally UWP would be the way to go for Microsoft to succeed in mobile. The problem is that ship sank (not sailed) a long time ago. Without Android is guaranteed that no one will care.

    Of course there is another problem: Even with Android it isn't guaranteed that anyone will care.
    12-01-2017 01:35 AM
  17. TechFreak1's Avatar
    Therein lies the problem. Ideally UWP would be the way to go for Microsoft to succeed in mobile. The problem is that ship sank (not sailed) a long time ago. Without Android is guaranteed that no one will care.

    Of course there is another problem: Even with Android it isn't guaranteed that anyone will care.
    Nope, it's not about Android but mindshare and Microsoft does not engage in heavy ad campaigns. The reason why Windows phone 8.x along Wp7 grew like the way it did in the early days was due to ad campaigns like the smoked by windows phone challenge hosted by Ben Rudolph.

    As Microsoft focused increasingly on telemetry and analytics to define a "progressive" pathway... they infact designed a regressive pathway suchas the dedicated search button (before became a dedicated button for Cortana) allowed you to do more than just scan QR Codes.

    Furthermore it launched a feature rich aspect of Bing BUT like everything else this was confined to the US only.

    When all the amazing features showcased in the smoked by windows phone campaign start to be removed... the campaign just disappeared into the ether and thus mindshare dwindled. Combined with bias from sales reps as they didn't want to know about Windows phone, sales also slowed down.

    But regardless marketshare was slowly increasing and what didn't help matters was the kick to the groin Microsoft gave to people who bought Wp7 devices.

    This sums up it nicely, Nokia ran an ad campaign proclaiming the smartphone beta was over (WP7.x) and what does Microsoft do?

    Says Wp7.x devices will not be able to upgrade to Wp8.x... therefore also Kicking their OEMs in the groin. They could have enabled the upgrade process but it meant plugging in your WP7.x phone to completely reflash the o/s. Plus the requirements (hardware) meant they wouldn't be able progress much (another transitional phase catastrophe).

    So, Mindshare is the issue not the fact it doesn't run Android apps.

    Now fast forward to present day, Microsoft is actively disregarding their UWA platform. Therefore it makes it a very difficult case to make towards developers, when the Platform 'Host' isn't giving a damn about their own platform.

    They may think they are but actions speak louder than words.
    Last edited by TechFreak1; 12-01-2017 at 12:06 PM.
    12-01-2017 11:55 AM
  18. vEEP pEEP's Avatar
    Market, Market, Market.
    Market to Asia, Africa
    Cheap, Middle and High End
    OEM it...
    Encourage THEIR local developers
    Bundle with a cheap Windows 10 tablet - make it solar powered? Something different.
    Push the Windows Ecosystem
    Get Bollywood actors to use it - product placement
    SUPPORT IT! (for more than 3 year.....)
    dgrn23 and Ronald#WP like this.
    12-07-2017 10:48 AM
  19. BanditoTR's Avatar
    Let it die in a fiery death
    12-07-2017 10:49 AM
  20. Jack Pipsam's Avatar
    Allow all the 8.1 users to upgrade to Win 10 like first promised (letting users know of the risk of under 1g models, but still allowing it) and not dropping support for phones in the range which were Win 10 from getting upgrades.

    I had a Lumia 830, it was one of the lucky few to be allowed to upgrade from 8.1 to 10, but after a while it stopped getting major updates only minor ones.

    That isn't a way to keep a base.
    Allen Steen likes this.
    12-07-2017 10:55 AM
  21. aximtreo's Avatar
    MS listen, react, develop, build and those of us on this site who know how to market and sell with help do the rest. Nah, MS would never allow this to happen. It would mean over coming their inherent NIH mindset. Darn, thought I had it going there for a moment.
    Guytronic likes this.
    12-07-2017 10:58 AM
  22. DCTonkaTruck's Avatar
    I think you need to launch a pocketable device that can use LTE for connectivity, but isn't tied to a given carrier. Traditional 'phones' are on the way out. Trying to launch a product through carriers invites to much mess in terms of trying to manage production and quality of experience. Build the new device the way you went from Surface Pro 2 to Surface Pro 3. Don't make the mistake you did with Surface Pro 1 and over commit on production. Don't make the mistake you made with Surface Pro 4 and be too far out on the technology edge.
    Allen Steen likes this.
    12-07-2017 11:00 AM
  23. EspHack's Avatar
    ask some chinese oem to restart production of the 950's with SD835, run w10 S with cshell on it, release w10 S roms for sd835 phones so users can just flash it on their droids if they want

    EDIT: forgot to fire nadella, add another/final testing ring for OS builds for fully employed QA testers to get things back to w8 standards
    romaink and Rupert Holmes like this.
    12-07-2017 11:02 AM
  24. Allen Steen's Avatar
    I certainly would not tell my customers to use a competitors faulty device. Andromeda better be absolutely killer ....

    Forget about Google allowing their spyware on a Winphone device they're looking for a monopoly on your info.
    Jaroslav Houdek likes this.
    12-07-2017 11:03 AM
  25. R_0171's Avatar
    Bring back the design ethos of Nokia. Some of their Windows phone designs were superb. The Windows Lumia phone designs were not a patch on Nokia's. The 950 was appalling. Drop the name Windows too. Failing that sell the UI design to another company in order the keep this element out their.
    Philip Bondzie likes this.
    12-07-2017 11:12 AM
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