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  1. graham.hughes's Avatar
    Hmmm... yes, messing about with the today screen is a problem. Better if they left it alone, unless you're running TouchFlo, in which case replace it with some kind of "RedFlo" (something like the landscape TouchFlo).
    12-06-2008 11:14 AM
  2. lynnpreston's Avatar
    Being a developer myself, I know better than to trivialize a software/firmware task, but I'm wondering what the issue is with getting full resolution with the RedFly and Touch Pro. Windows Mobile supports the 800 x 480 res, so I wonder what makes the Touch Pro so difficult. I say this in a curious developer way, not a derogatory, sarcastic way.
    12-06-2008 11:58 AM
  3. drjohn61's Avatar
    Tested out the new driver on my touchpro. I use PocketBreeze on my today (after removing all other standard MS today stuff) but every time I connect, this driver spends a few seconds to add back calendar, message, clock and task back to my Today which I needed to waste time to remove.

    After connection, it feels quite stable. But the connection time is too long and apparently this new driver has conflicts with other add-ons like Pocketbreeze. Looks like I need to stay with the original old driver a little longer... :(
    I have TouchFlo disabled and run SPB mobile shell. I don't seem to have the problem with Today.
    12-06-2008 08:13 PM
  4. drjohn61's Avatar
    In reference to setting PIE as default:

    This has not resulted in a satisfactory solution, yet. I read in some further posts that one can install the new 9.5 beta (or an older version of Opera) and then uninstall it--this then sets the default back to PIE. BUT it is irreversible--you have to either do a backup/restore or hard reset to get Opera back as the default (which will hopefully be necessary soon when the Fly works with Opera 9.5;) ). It really seems like there should be an easier solution.
    Last edited by drjohn61; 12-06-2008 at 08:18 PM. Reason: Would not let me quote the original response...
    12-06-2008 08:17 PM
  5. bioart#WP's Avatar
    BTW, although cable connection is rock stable, the USB connections are still dropping. It seems to take longer to drop, but that may just be wishful thinking.

    Regarding the interface, there really is no need to use touchflo on the redfly... but it has to automatically change back when disconnected (and hopefully remember the previous settings). Since I'm a newbie to windows mobile, I still feel lost without tf3d on the phone, so it is useful to have it, but I always disable when using the redfly. At least make the phone think it's on landscape, then it would automatically switch to the more useful view without the animations...

    Finally, I Agree, changelog would be great.
    12-06-2008 09:10 PM
  6. stanip's Avatar
    Tested out the new driver on my touchpro. I use PocketBreeze on my today (after removing all other standard MS today stuff) but every time I connect, this driver spends a few seconds to add back calendar, message, clock and task back to my Today which I needed to waste time to remove.

    After connection, it feels quite stable. But the connection time is too long and apparently this new driver has conflicts with other add-ons like Pocketbreeze. Looks like I need to stay with the original old driver a little longer... :(
    UPDATE: I found the reason... it was because I used a custom rom version without Manila (i.e. rom does not have touchflo3D). Now I refreshed the rom with a Manila version and I disabled the touchflo3D and everything seems to be fine. The problem with today seems to have gone away. BT reconnection is a lot more stable and the reconnection is very fast but I need to test it for a few more days to report back. So far so good... :)
    12-06-2008 10:25 PM
  7. graham.hughes's Avatar
    Being a developer myself, I know better than to trivialize a software/firmware task, but I'm wondering what the issue is with getting full resolution with the RedFly and Touch Pro. Windows Mobile supports the 800 x 480 res, so I wonder what makes the Touch Pro so difficult. I say this in a curious developer way, not a derogatory, sarcastic way.
    The TouchPro is not really a problem... in the sense that, I am using a TouchPro with a RedFly, and they work perfectly together.

    Opera 9.5 is a problem, because it draws directly to the screen. It by-passes the operating system and, in doing so, by-passes the RedFly driver.

    The problem with huge fonts... applications are just not built to cope with font-sizes suddenly changing. Especially applications that are already running (like the Today screen). Even if they could cope, all the artwork for icons is too big (like the Windows logo for the start-menu, for example). Hence you get the "Fisher Price" look.

    If I understand right, the Sprint branded variant doesn't work at all with the old drivers. Why that is, I have no idea. But Celio seem to have that fixed.

    I'm afraid that solving the "Fisher Price" issue, without reducing application compatibility, will be extremely difficult (and might not be possible).
    12-07-2008 05:17 AM
  8. bioart#WP's Avatar
    Did a bunch of testing of .64 drivers on my touch pro during my 3 hour drive today (i wasn't driving)...

    Anyways, other than the wasted space because of large fonts, the cable connection worked fairly well. I was not able to properly use google maps with gps enabled, but I assume that's because of all the redraws. Google maps worked fine without the gps functionality.

    On the other hand, the bluetooth connection sucked. It dropped all the time and even refused to come back once...

    Looking forward to a driver update sometime this week :)

    Art
    12-07-2008 05:06 PM
  9. edk's Avatar
    Are you using the USB cable that came with your Fuze? I've had trouble getting my Sprint TP to connect with a "normal" USB cable. Just a thought.
    Lynn,

    Alas, yes - I have about 6 USB cables now, and none of them allow a connection to the RF. The OEM cable is weak at the connector, doesn't always allow a sync. My new ones are nice and solid, perfect syncs. I wasn't aware that there might be anything special abou the OEM cable. But, to rule it out, I'll retry again with the OEM cable.

    Anyone have a better idea just what that "Advanced Network" setting is on the USB connection page? That is the RF's complaint, though the RF doesn't seems to work regardless of that setting. Just wondering (can't test now), if the RF doesn't work, I wonder if the cellular modem will work - it uses RNDIS, which is part of the Advanced Network setting, and if there are special pins on that connector for such connections, it may not work either, even though Sync does. Just a thought - I'm beaten senseless by this thing and am about to give up.

    I've been waiting for a tweaker out there to give me a tip that some setting may be wrong on the Fuze, but nothing comes, either from Celio support or this forum! It looks like my best course of action a this point is to return both units for a refund and try again later. :-(

    - Ed K.
    12-08-2008 10:38 AM
  10. sran's Avatar
    The revision notes for HTC regarding the v.64 beta driver on the Celio site state:
    The dialpad display on incoming phone calls does not render properly the first time it is loaded, and on subsequent uses has some visual anomalies. (Note: This was resolved with build 64.)

    However, I've been using the .64 updates on my sprint touch pro. With incoming calls, I notice the dialpad screen no longer becomes garbled, but it doesn't show anything. The display doesn't change other than the Left Soft button changing to "Send Text".

    If I manually lauch the Phone application during an incoming call, the dialpad does display, but showing only half of the dialpad.

    Bluetooth still seems to drop frequently.
    12-08-2008 01:11 PM
  11. lynnpreston's Avatar
    The TouchPro is not really a problem... in the sense that, I am using a TouchPro with a RedFly, and they work perfectly together.

    Opera 9.5 is a problem, because it draws directly to the screen. It by-passes the operating system and, in doing so, by-passes the RedFly driver.

    The problem with huge fonts... applications are just not built to cope with font-sizes suddenly changing. Especially applications that are already running (like the Today screen). Even if they could cope, all the artwork for icons is too big (like the Windows logo for the start-menu, for example). Hence you get the "Fisher Price" look.

    If I understand right, the Sprint branded variant doesn't work at all with the old drivers. Why that is, I have no idea. But Celio seem to have that fixed.

    I'm afraid that solving the "Fisher Price" issue, without reducing application compatibility, will be extremely difficult (and might not be possible).
    I still don't get why my HTC Titan on WM 6.1 worked perfectly without the Fisher Price issue, but the Touch Pro proves to be so different. It can't be a problem inherent in the OS or the applications since the "same OS" and same applications worked fine with the RedFly and Titan. I know WM is heavily customized for each device with all sorts of complicated drivers, so saying the same OS is a bit of an exaggeration.
    12-08-2008 02:55 PM
  12. lynnpreston's Avatar
    Both suggestions on this thread:http://forums.wmexperts.com/showthread.php?t=174469
    work well. The realVGA seems to work better since it also gives you correct icons. Only downside is a soft reset it required to switch to the higher res.
    12-08-2008 03:56 PM
  13. matty76's Avatar
    I picked up the HTC Touch Pro (Verizon Model) on Saturday. I had emailed Celio before I picked up the phone and they said to try the Sprint model beta drivers on it.

    I downloaded the Sprint drivers, flashed my RedFly (everything successful), went to connect the phone for the first time and nutt'n. It gets hung on the "waiting for phone" and times out.

    I did have it paired with my old Treo 700w (VZW model) before this and it worked perfectly.

    Anyone have any thoughts?
    12-11-2008 08:58 AM
  14. cuzlion's Avatar
    OK, I have the latest driver on my TouchPro, Alltel version, same as Sprint's. Also I have TF3D turned off, always. I use Pocket Plus as my Today Screen add in. I also use S2U2 but turn it off manually before connecting the Redfly.

    Here are the remaining issues:
    1) Bluetooth will not stay connected for more than a few seconds at worst to a few minutes at best, it is basically so flakey at maintaining a connection as to be unusable. The cable works fine though.
    2) WiFi keeps turning itself off when the Redfly is connected. It is very random and unrepeatable but I will have to go to the comm mgr and turn the wifi radio back on four or five times in an hour session when I am on wifi rather than 3G(which is at home in my case).
    3)My contextual menus keep getting the font reset which requires me to use a registry editor to put them back large enough to see well when the Redfly is not in use and I am using the phone's screen.
    4)Not a defect but a "feature". The fonts appropriate in WM and the zoom level in PIE appropriate for a 2.8 inch VGA screen are not appropriate for an 8 inch 800 by 450 res screen. I find myself opening the Screen settings everytime I hook up my Redfly and then adjusting the zoom settings on PIE everytime I browse with it on the Redfly. It would be jiffy keen if the Redfly driver let you save some Redfly preferences on fonts and zoom levels for when the Redfly was hooked up and then restored the original or some set of user default preferences when the Redfly was disconnected. Seems fairly simple and in keeping with the rest of Celio's philosophy.

    Even with these issues the Redfly is a dream, if you could fix the Bluetooth that's the main thing. If you address 2,3 or 4 above even better but Bluetooth is great in airports where you don't have a good place to set both a phone and a Redfly that are tethered together. And having that leash between them is just a good way to get either the shiny shiny expensive phone or the Redfly dropped onto a hard floor. My Bluetooth worked awesomely well on my Mogul so surely this can be done, all my other BT headsets and gadgets work just as well on the TP as they did on the Mogul? Cuz.
    12-11-2008 05:05 PM
  15. graham.hughes's Avatar
    I still don't get why my HTC Titan on WM 6.1 worked perfectly without the Fisher Price issue, but the Touch Pro proves to be so different. It can't be a problem inherent in the OS or the applications since the "same OS" and same applications worked fine with the RedFly and Titan. I know WM is heavily customized for each device with all sorts of complicated drivers, so saying the same OS is a bit of an exaggeration.
    Titan is a QVGA device, right? Because QVGA and VGA screens are about the same (3") size, pixels on the QVGA screen are larger. This is the DPI issue that RealVGA attempts to fix.

    A QVGA screen (and a RedFly screen) are about 96dpi... the Redfly just has more pixels. So everything looks fine.

    A VGA screen is about 192dpi. Because the dpi is double, the phone has to draw fonts twice the size. The phone doesn't know that the dpi drops when you plug the RedFly in, so it carries on drawing huge fonts.

    This fix would be to change the dpi setting, like RealVGA does. The downside, as you know from using RealVGA, is that applications will not handle this mid-session, and the device needs to be rebooted.

    Possibly, some bright spark will figure out how to re-start just enough of what's running, without re-starting the entire operating system. If it's possible, this might be faster, but not seamless. And you would lose some application compatibility, because applications would not necessarily have image resources of the right size (with RealVGA, you have to install a resource pack, so that standard apps like Outlook work properly).
    12-12-2008 05:15 AM
  16. mskovrinskie's Avatar
    New drivers/firmware are up again at http://www.celiocorp.com/install/beta/ bringing the version to 1.4.0.67. I'm afraid to try it because the past few versions have changed the font sizes permanently in my menus. Has anyone tried this version on a VGA device?
    12-13-2008 08:39 AM
  17. bioart#WP's Avatar
    So far so good with .67

    Bluetooth was way stable. Was not able to crash it in my short testing (~10 min)(but I could usually crash the other versions within 30 secs). TF3D is now disabled again, but I think that's the better decision. This won't be much of a problem if it doesn't crash as much, since the drivers re-enable it after a disconnect.

    Was not able to use the camera while connected, but I guess that's expected. Would have been cool to take self-pics while looking at the redfly screen :)
    12-13-2008 10:58 AM
  18. stanip's Avatar
    I tried out the new .67 driver on a touch pro. Haven't noticed any difference so far... other than the reconnection time becomes very long. Now it takes 15-20 secs to reconnect once BT is lost and the cleartype selection no longer seems to do anything.

    It is really sad that Celio does not know how to manage all these new driver development and they don't even log and inform us the changes. Mskovrinskie's comment clearly reflects how the redfly community feels at this point: lack of confidence. Not sure how long Celio can hold on to the current group of users before they throw in the towel... :(
    12-13-2008 11:05 AM
  19. phildro's Avatar
    I'm pleased with the update. I agree that BT is much more reliable- in fact this is the first driver with a workable bluetooth stack.

    But in the quest for continuous improvement, I have some feedback:

    * Incoming calls display now, but the screen takes a long time to draw, so its tough to screen callers since I can't see who's calling.

    * Screen drawing is slow in a number of ways, like typing emails and text messages. I am usually typing ahead of what I can see on the screen.

    * Still hoping to see an update from Opera Mobile to make it work. Does anyone have a date when Opera 9.5 goes GA? I am experimenting with Netfront and like that much better than PIE, although I'm looking for the scroll bar.

    * Wondering if Celio plans to bring the TF3D back eventually? If so, I hope that the landscape version of the home screen with the eight square buttons could be used, instead of the portrait/clock screen. It is much better sized to the aspect of the Fly's screen. Thoughts?

    * I've been experimenting with getting more from the Today landing page, and put in the desktop background. I also found the "Task" utility from HTC so that I can kill apps directly from the home screen without TF3D enabled.

    The enable/disable procedure for TF3D is still pretty unreliable. Hope this gets better.

    As always, thanks for all the hard work in driver development.
    12-14-2008 01:20 AM
  20. cuzlion's Avatar
    In one word, terrific. The font thing seems totally fixed. Every app has the tiniest fonts automatically set when the Redfly is connected then goes back to the default ones when you disconnect, that's very sweet. Bluetooth is much better, seems perfect as long as you stay in one app, like Opera Mini on the Fly but still flakey if you are jumping around multiple apps, much better and probably usable now though.

    One word of caution. I COULD NOT INSTALL following instructions. My Alltel TouchPro locked up five times in a row. The only way I could get it to work was to reinstall 64, then install the 67 phone driver, then install the 67 firmware with the phone DISCONNECTED from the Redfly and then not connecting until that second "NEXT" screen came up that asks to be sure your phone is really connected, if I waited until then to connect my phone it worked. If doing it connected from the start locks up your phone like it did mine then try this as an alternate plan, worked for me. This driver is sweet, thanks Celio guys, could still use a little Bluetooth tweaking but this is very close to the Mogul driver now. Cuz
    12-14-2008 08:24 PM
  21. epamis's Avatar
    Just downloaded the 67 drivers for my HTC Diamond and did not notice much of a difference.

    I have two main issues at the moment.

    1. Font on the today screen is so big it does not show all of the options in the drop down Start menu. Specifically can't select Programs or Settings.

    Internet Explorer is pretty bad as well. Between the Start Bar, the URL entry bar and the bottom menu bar, I probably lose 1/3 of the screen real estate.

    2. Responsiveness is quite slow. If I hover the mouse over one of the entries in the Start menu and then move to the next entry, it takes almost 2 seconds to highlight the next entry.

    How are other people finding these two issues on their Diamonds?

    Thanks,

    Michael
    12-14-2008 10:43 PM
  22. phildro's Avatar
    A lot of folks have complained about losing screen real estate with the "Fisher Price" effect. I have been playing with RealVGA and have had good results with it.

    I encourage you to check it out for yourselves, but I recommend getting the modules built for the Epix, else your contacts and other things will not work properly.

    http://forum.xda-developers.com/show...327830&page=63

    The upside is that when tethered, my Fly renders the Touch Pro menus in a much better proportion to the screen, giving you lots more room to browse, edit, whatever. I would even say that the connection *FEELS* quicker when connecting the Fly, perhaps because it is easier to render the 96DPI?

    Maybe I'm dreaming. Oh well, now for the downside:

    When you disconnect from the Fly and just use the phone directly, the menus are so small that you can barely see them. A lot of finger action goes away and it even becomes tough to poke things accurately with the stylus-- so small.

    The good news is that most things can be done via TF3D and that is the same size. Its only when you get into WinMo proper that you feel like Ralph in The Mouse and the Motorcycle.

    I can live with a quick soft reset to restore the regular font size if I'm going untethered for a while.

    Try it for yourself-- for those who are complaining of huge menus, you'll like RealVGA (with the EPIX settings)...

    Good luck!
    12-14-2008 11:34 PM
  23. cuzlion's Avatar
    .7 is out but seems the same as .67. I can't find anything that changed. Bluetooth is just as flakey and unusable. Opera and Skyfire still won't run. Fonts are still working better but .67 already had that working. And for some reason my wifi turns itself off when I switch apps or just at random, not just lose the connection but the radio turns itself off, all by itself. Very irritating and never happens when the Redfly is disconnected, am I alone in having the problem? I live in a fringe area so I use wifi at home, pretty much use the Evdo or RevA everywhere else. Cuz
    12-19-2008 10:26 PM
  24. Viva Terlingua's Avatar

    When you disconnect from the Fly and just use the phone directly, the menus are so small that you can barely see them. A lot of finger action goes away and it even becomes tough to poke things accurately with the stylus-- so small.

    Good luck!
    How do you get the menu sizes back? I removed the Redfly driver and reset my device and the menus are still miniature.
    12-22-2008 11:26 AM
  25. edk's Avatar
    Anyone else here running Herg's excellent modified HTC Black theme with Landscape TF3D (yes, Landscape TF3D!!!)? Awesome look and feel if you like TF3D (I know some here don't - that's cool too).

    Anyway, with the theme loaded, the home screen on RF shows the icons on the left as usual, but no text (either white on white or invisible). The hot spots are still there, so the functions still work, and appear properly with the select highlight when tapped. Just on the Home screen - all others seem fine.

    Also, the white text on light grey legend bars at the bottom are very hard to read, and this is on all relevant screens (not an artifact of the theme I - I believe this was like this before).

    Other than that, all functions seem to work fine with this theme loaded. If you liked the original HTC Black theme and gave it up due to misc. problems, Herg and friends (over at XDA) have done an outstanding job on this theme - much work went into making it work and look good, with quite a few user suggested features added and beta tests run to most everyone's satisfaction before GA.

    C'mon Celio - pony up and do the same!

    (still running Beta .64)

    - Ed K.
    12-24-2008 04:04 PM
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