10-11-2016 10:51 PM
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  1. pc2k16's Avatar
    the real question I usually ask is, from all that info, what can they do with it? To m personally? Can they select me as an individual from the billions of internet users and target me for something personal? I've never posted banking info and in any case my bank is still analogue. They don't even know where I live exactly
    That's a good question. Google, Apple, Microsoft, facebok, twitter, etc...... all they will really do is file that info in a database and use it to market ads and services to you. The real question you need to ask, is what can someone who doesn't have good intensions do with all that information? (ie: spammers, tele-marketers, hackers) Just about every week you hear about some major company being hacked with personal info, user names, passwords, etc being stolen. Much of that info can be used for identity theft. As careful as I am, my health insurance provider was hacked a few years back and ever since I get tele-marketing calls and just recently someone tried to buy and add a new cell phone to my cell account. ATT and LifeLock caught it though and it was denied. People with bad intensions are everywhere. There's no need to make it easier for them.
    Chintan Gohel and a5cent like this.
    09-25-2016 11:04 AM
  2. fatclue_98's Avatar
    That's a good question. Google, Apple, Microsoft, facebok, twitter, etc...... all they will really do is file that info in a database and use it to market ads and services to you. The real question you need to ask, is what can someone who doesn't have good intensions do with all that information? (ie: spammers, tele-marketers, hackers) Just about every week you hear about some major company being hacked with personal info, user names, passwords, etc being stolen. Much of that info can be used for identity theft. As careful as I am, my health insurance provider was hacked a few years back and ever since I get tele-marketing calls and just recently someone tried to buy and add a new cell phone to my cell account. ATT and LifeLock caught it though and it was denied. People with bad intensions are everywhere. There's no need to make it easier for them.
    There is a way to avoid all these issues. The question is, who among us has the constitution to do what's involved with such a decision? To disconnect from the Information Age is a scary proposition to some. Those of us who're over 50 remember the days of no ATMs. You went to the bank on Friday and made sure you kept enough cash to get you through the weekend while making sure there was enough on deposit to cover any checks out there. You paid your bills through the mail, no online banking. If you were stuck in traffic, you dealt with it and popped a Donna Summer cassette into your stereo. If you wanted to buy something, you either went to a store or waded through a Sears, JC Penney or Montgomery Ward catalog.

    This was life before cell phones and computers circa 1985 and before. Who here can honestly say they could live like that again or for the first time? I could if I was forced to, but I'm spoiled now. I can't see a Millennial hacking it. This is the price for convenience.
    09-25-2016 11:42 AM
  3. tgp's Avatar
    There is a way to avoid all these issues. The question is, who among us has the constitution to do what's involved with such a decision? To disconnect from the Information Age is a scary proposition to some. Those of us who're over 50 remember the days of no ATMs. You went to the bank on Friday and made sure you kept enough cash to get you through the weekend while making sure there was enough on deposit to cover any checks out there. You paid your bills through the mail, no online banking. If you were stuck in traffic, you dealt with it and popped a Donna Summer cassette into your stereo. If you wanted to buy something, you either went to a store or waded through a Sears, JC Penney or Montgomery Ward catalog.

    This was life before cell phones and computers circa 1985 and before. Who here can honestly say they could live like that again or for the first time? I could if I was forced to, but I'm spoiled now. I can't see a Millennial hacking it. This is the price for convenience.
    Yup, if those were the "good old days", I'm glad they're gone... for good!
    libra89 likes this.
    09-25-2016 11:50 AM
  4. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    Some of us still live in a semi analogue/semi digital age

    I still go to the bank for cash deposits or withdrawals, still use cash for everything I do - I've only used debit cards a few years back to pay for application fees
    Stuck in traffic- either listen to my phone music or look at the vibrant hustle and bustle outside
    09-25-2016 12:33 PM
  5. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Yup, if those were the "good old days", I'm glad they're gone... for good!
    I never claimed those were the good old days, that's just the way it was. My point was that if we want to live free of tracking, targeted ads or any form of "surveillance", there is a way. I just don't know if there are many who would be willing to do it.
    Guytronic and slivy58 like this.
    09-25-2016 01:13 PM
  6. pc2k16's Avatar
    I'm a big tech nut and I'm in my 40's, so I remember, lived the pre-internet days. I probably could go back to those days, but honestly I wouldn't want to. I do online shopping, online banking/bill pay, forums, lots of research and knowledge gathering online, some games, things like that. Yes, convenience comes with a price, but everyone should do what they can to limit their exposure to prying minds. Don't save passwords in browsers, use upper & lower letters, numbers, special characters, get passwords as close to 128bit as possible, secure your home router, only put the info in online profiles that's required, never anything more, don't save credit cards online, use services like paypal, don't stay signed in with your MS account or Google account, use tracking blockers, etc. Things like this limit your exposure and protect yourself better. Also one of the best things you can do is get off of social media. They are an identity thief's / hackers paradise. Not to mention that study after study shows social media is self defeating, creates unneeded stress, and ultimately makes it's user less happy than non-users, not to mention less secure online. My whole point, that started with the google tracking joke, is everyone should strive to limit personal info exposure online and there are a lot of things you can do to accomplish that. No one can stop or limit all personal info exposure & tracking, but doing simple things to try to limit it is better than not. I once heard a security expert say: "A false sense of security is worse than no security at all." Remember this is just my opinion, everyone should do what they feel is right for them.

    I think got a bit off topic here, but a good discussion never the less.
    09-25-2016 04:49 PM
  7. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I think got a bit off topic here, but a good discussion never the less.
    A good discussion is never off-topic.
    09-25-2016 06:50 PM
  8. patcherd's Avatar
    Like this discussion. I'm in my late 40s and I still go to the bank for transactions and I go to the stores when I have to purchase a product. Though I do find doing things electronically very convenient and time saving.

    I still like the physical aspect of actually going out and interacting with people...something that i see is dying with the generations coming up.

    We should thank the Lord for gifting man with the intelligence and talents that gives us the things we enjoy today to make our lives easier.

    If we had to go back to writing letters on real paper and only catalogs to look through for purchases and the many other things we had to do before the computer age i could readily adapt because i lived through it and to a certain degree still do.

    I came across an old phone book i had with all the numbers i used to have when i did a clean out yesterday. To think i used to know everybodys number i had by heart,..now if i lost my phone i would be up the creek because i don't memorize phone numbers any more.

    Modern technology has made me in many ways lazy and that is only something i can correct .

    If we are honest isn't that many of us though?
    Last edited by patcherd; 09-25-2016 at 07:14 PM.
    09-25-2016 06:52 PM
  9. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    Like this discussion. I'm in my late 40s and I still go to the bank for transactions and I go to the stores when I have to purchase a product. Though I do find doing things electronically very convenient and time saving.

    I still like the physical aspect of actually going out and interacting with people...something that i see is dying with the generations coming up.

    We should thank the Lord for gifting man with the intelligence and talents that gives us the things we enjoy today to make our lives easier.

    If we had to go back to writing letters on real paper and only catalogs to look through for purchases and the many other things we had to do before the computer age i could readily adapt because i lived through it and to a certain degree still do.

    I came across an old phone book i had with all the numbers i used to have when i did a clean out yesterday. To think i used to know everybodys number i had by heart,..now if i lost my phone i would be up the creek because i don't memorize phone numbers any more.

    Modern technology has made me in many ways lazy and that is only something i can correct .

    If we are honest isn't that many of us though?
    I still keep all my family phone numbers in my head as well as bank, ID, passport and some few other numbers memorised. Even my IMEI number for my stolen 1020
    libra89 and RumoredNow like this.
    09-26-2016 01:04 AM
  10. MaskedCritic's Avatar
    the real question I usually ask is, from all that info, what can they do with it? To m personally? Can they select me as an individual from the billions of internet users and target me for something personal?
    I can confirm that they can. A while back I signed up for facebook for the sole purpose of getting free in-game money for a Nexon game (and I'll avoid any rants for now about how horrifyingly bad Nexon is as a company). I gave it nothing but my name. I used it all of once or twice, and never actually bothered going to anybody else's page.

    Within a month it was recommending that I friend actual friends, college classmates, and family members, and none of them even knew I had a facebook.

    To this day that is still the creepiest interaction I have ever had with technology.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    09-29-2016 02:17 PM
  11. pc2k16's Avatar
    I can confirm that they can. A while back I signed up for facebook for the sole purpose of getting free in-game money for a Nexon game (and I'll avoid any rants for now about how horrifyingly bad Nexon is as a company). I gave it nothing but my name. I used it all of once or twice, and never actually bothered going to anybody else's page.

    Within a month it was recommending that I friend actual friends, college classmates, and family members, and none of them even knew I had a facebook.

    To this day that is still the creepiest interaction I have ever had with technology.
    Perfect example. Facebook uses advanced tracking techniques to create a profile on all its users and to gather as much personal information that they can about it's users. This is done for one purpose only, to make tons of money. I hope people don't believe Zukerberg became a billionaire by providing a place to play games and meet long lost friends. He became that rich by data mining (some might call it stealing), selling personal information, and blasting it's users with advertisments. Many years ago I tried facebook for about a month and I thought it was the dumbest thing I've ever done in my life. I think all social media is nonsense. I only participate in a few forums, like this one, where one can actually learn something and/or help others. #saynotosocialmedia lol
    Timbre70, a5cent, mark233 and 2 others like this.
    09-29-2016 05:23 PM
  12. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    Perfect example. Facebook uses advanced tracking techniques to create a profile on all its users and to gather as much personal information that they can about it's users. This is done for one purpose only, to make tons of money. I hope people don't believe Zukerberg became a billionaire by providing a place to play games and meet long lost friends. He became that rich by data mining (some might call it stealing), selling personal information, and blasting it's users with advertisments. Many years ago I tried facebook for about a month and I thought it was the dumbest thing I've ever done in my life. I think all social media is nonsense. I only participate in a few forums, like this one, where one can actually learn something and/or help others. #saynotosocialmedia lol
    but take a case like mine - I never click on ads, never follow up on ads - so if there were a lot of people like me, are advertisers really making money?
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-29-2016 11:48 PM
  13. pc2k16's Avatar
    but take a case like mine - I never click on ads, never follow up on ads - so if there were a lot of people like me, are advertisers really making money?
    On a big site like facebook with tons of traffic and users I don't think it's about click thru's on ads to generate money. I'm no expert on internet advertising, but I believe the model is more like TV commercials for large websites, where just displaying the ad (commercial) generates money for the site that allows the ad to be displayed. Just like a TV Network gets paid for showing a commercial, many sites get paid just for showing the ad whether you click on the ad or not. The advertiser is paying for exposure and sites like facebook give them plenty of exposure. Just like facebook, Google's #1 revenue stream is still displaying ads even though they have branched out in other areas, because google, you tube, etc get tons of traffic and those ads get lots of exposure. The advertiser is just looking for exposure knowing that ads aren't profit makers, they are just a cost of doing business. But even if a small percentage of people check out there product from an internet ad or TV commercial then the ad has done it's job. I'm guessing "click-thru and get paid" models still exist too, but the big boys probably don't use those models. It's probably more like the advertiser contacts sites like facebook and FB says pay us this much and we'll display your ad this many times during this time frame.
    09-30-2016 07:21 AM
  14. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    On a big site like facebook with tons of traffic and users I don't think it's about click thru's on ads to generate money. I'm no expert on internet advertising, but I believe the model is more like TV commercials for large websites, where just displaying the ad (commercial) generates money for the site that allows the ad to be displayed. Just like a TV Network gets paid for showing a commercial, many sites get paid just for showing the ad whether you click on the ad or not. The advertiser is paying for exposure and sites like facebook give them plenty of exposure. Just like facebook, Google's #1 revenue stream is still displaying ads even though they have branched out in other areas, because google, you tube, etc get tons of traffic and those ads get lots of exposure. The advertiser is just looking for exposure knowing that ads aren't profit makers, they are just a cost of doing business. But even if a small percentage of people check out there product from an internet ad or TV commercial then the ad has done it's job. I'm guessing "click-thru and get paid" models still exist too, but the big boys probably don't use those models. It's probably more like the advertiser contacts sites like facebook and FB says pay us this much and we'll display your ad this many times during this time frame.
    that makes a lot of sense and you're the first person to come up with an effective answer - when I had asked this question before, people were stumped - even guys working with Google
    09-30-2016 08:16 AM
  15. mehtanilay10's Avatar
    Android/IPhone are more popular because of they are largely supported by developers and organizations.
    I don't know ๐Ÿ˜ž why people still not supporting this OS!
    If app gap is removed then W10M will became popular ever. Many developer/organization still supports Blackberry and not supporting W10M.

    Carrier issues aside, I can see where roberts1069 is coming from. Sticking with Microsoft Mobile is getting harder.

    I've been along for the ride since the very earliest days of the Windows Phone 7 launch back in 2009. In that time I've only used Windows Phone and have invested heavily in the platform.

    I'm a die hard fan, but I'm nearing the end.

    The platform just isn't going anywhere. Developers aren't supporting it. Major tech firms aren't supporting it. Every other day we lose apps. Every other day a new app or feature hits the world at large and we're not invited to the party.

    I don't blame Microsoft for this. It's just the way things are.
    09-30-2016 09:26 AM
  16. tgp's Avatar
    but take a case like mine - I never click on ads, never follow up on ads - so if there were a lot of people like me, are advertisers really making money?
    Advertisers know that a certain percentage of viewers will become customers. Even if you do not click on the ad, you are still important in a way. Plus, just because you do not click on it doesn't mean that you will not be affected.

    Awhile ago my wife saw an ad online for a certain Subway sub. Sometime later, we were going out to eat, and she told me she wants to go to Subway to try that sub. Now, she never clicked on the ad online. Subway had no clue, and still doesn't know for sure, that she saw the ad. She may have been driving past Subway and said, "Hey, I'm hungry and it is dinnertime. I'm going to run into Subway and see what they have."
    09-30-2016 09:39 AM
  17. slivy58's Avatar
    Android/IPhone are more popular because of they are largely supported by developers and organizations.
    I don't know ๐Ÿ˜ž why people still not supporting this OS!
    If app gap is removed then W10M will became popular ever. Many developer/organization still supports Blackberry and not supporting W10M.
    For me (and many others I'm sure) it's the uncertainty as a whole which includes the "app gap" but that's only "one" part of the puzzle.

    How about W10Ms not so stellar stability track record or features still lacking, its inconsistencies running on varying devices or same for that matter. Throw in poor device availability globally (limited resources) or the uncertainty whether anything new will come down the pipeline. Those alone won't help garner much interest.

    In the end I see a lot that has tainted the platforms appeal and like anything, will take a long time to overcome. There's still too much happening, or not, that's leaving WM from getting noticed/consideration.

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    libra89 likes this.
    09-30-2016 05:53 PM
  18. tgp's Avatar
    For me (and many others I'm sure) it's the uncertainty as a whole which includes the "app gap" but that's only "one" part of the puzzle.

    How about W10Ms not so stellar stability track record or features still lacking, its inconsistencies running on varying devices or same for that matter. Throw in poor device availability globally (limited resources) or the uncertainty whether anything new will come down the pipeline. Those alone won't help garner much interest.

    In the end I see a lot that has tainted the platforms appeal and like anything, will take a long time to overcome. There's still too much happening, or not, that's leaving WM from getting noticed/consideration.
    This is my opinion as well. I can easily rationalize compromising on one point. All platforms and devices have their downsides. But in my experience, WP/W10M requires the most.

    I'm reminded of what one of my uncles would say, "My goal for any given day is to get through it with as little pain as possible!"
    slivy58 and libra89 like this.
    10-01-2016 07:04 AM
  19. FXi2's Avatar
    It's the rebels vs the death star. You may think they have no chance but you have failed to examine the larger vendors for weaknesses. You talk as if there were no issues with the other vendors. No more OLED on Nexus... Just when Apple is criticized for NOT going OLED? Even Nexus is balancing cost vs risk. Apple still 5 years later and on a high end, extreme cost device, unable to utilize OLED. Verizon iPhone 7's have an unfixed LTE bug right now with no timeline for a fix. We need to keep MS aiming for top performance, but you should always consider that, compared to their peers, MS has put out more updates and more feature increases across more devices than almost all of the others combined. Even older Nexus devices are waiting in line to get updates. Older iPhones and iPads are dropped from IOS 10. No platform is a panacea. And at least your Lumias haven't exploded...
    10-01-2016 02:25 PM
  20. slivy58's Avatar
    It's the rebels vs the death star. You may think they have no chance but you have failed to examine the larger vendors for weaknesses. You talk as if there were no issues with the other vendors. No more OLED on Nexus... Just when Apple is criticized for NOT going OLED? Even Nexus is balancing cost vs risk. Apple still 5 years later and on a high end, extreme cost device, unable to utilize OLED. Verizon iPhone 7's have an unfixed LTE bug right now with no timeline for a fix. We need to keep MS aiming for top performance, but you should always consider that, compared to their peers, MS has put out more updates and more feature increases across more devices than almost all of the others combined. Even older Nexus devices are waiting in line to get updates. Older iPhones and iPads are dropped from IOS 10. No platform is a panacea. And at least your Lumias haven't exploded...
    Sure they put out more updates cuz it (W10M) lacked considerably compared to the competition and still does, and if you think the majority of those updates were "worthy" then we're all in trouble.

    Just been updating phones, tablets and PCs, if this is how MS is presenting W10/W10M then it ain't going to appeal to the masses, too many inconsistencies along with there being an excessive amount of intervention needed by the user, that spells "FAIL" in this day and age.

    I use the other two platforms as well and although they a far from perfect, the experience is way smoother and much more consistent compared to what 10 has to offer, at this point and time.

    Bugs? MS has been king of them w/10s inception, still many go unaddressed... Haven't you heard the phrase " fix one, break two", and they weren't taking Android/iOS?

    So an average 4 years of support for iOS devices isn't considered reasonable, couldn't say that for my Ativ S, L1020 nor do I believe my L830 falls into that category.

    No, Lumia's haven't exploded but if my reads are any indication there has been lots of quality control issues w/hardware, so much so many owners have gone through several handsets with some models.

    In the end I'd rather be a realist and see things as they are, but there's nothing wrong with dreaming I suppose ;).

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    libra89, Laura Knotek and mark233 like this.
    10-01-2016 03:46 PM
  21. libra89's Avatar
    This is my opinion as well. I can easily rationalize compromising on one point. All platforms and devices have their downsides. But in my experience, WP/W10M requires the most.

    I'm reminded of what one of my uncles would say, "My goal for any given day is to get through it with as little pain as possible!"
    This.

    I remember you said something around the forums a little while back about compromising just to be different. That has stuck with me. I don't remember exactly how you said it but it went something like this: "Wanting to stand out by using Windows Mobile has no gain. You're only inconveniencing yourself in the name of being different when you use a platform that does not have apps for what you need/use on a regular basis."

    It's a statement that I keep having to revisit when I go through my switches. Idealistically, yeah I would be on W10M doing everything, and having subpar battery life because I have to use Edge to read my books. Or I could just use another platform that allows me to do everything, read my books and have nice battery life. The middle ground for me is Android so that is where I see myself at.
    10-01-2016 03:46 PM
  22. dkediger's Avatar
    It's the rebels vs the death star. You may think they have no chance but you have failed to examine the larger vendors for weaknesses. You talk as if there were no issues with the other vendors. No more OLED on Nexus... Just when Apple is criticized for NOT going OLED? Even Nexus is balancing cost vs risk. Apple still 5 years later and on a high end, extreme cost device, unable to utilize OLED. Verizon iPhone 7's have an unfixed LTE bug right now with no timeline for a fix. We need to keep MS aiming for top performance, but you should always consider that, compared to their peers, MS has put out more updates and more feature increases across more devices than almost all of the others combined. Even older Nexus devices are waiting in line to get updates. Older iPhones and iPads are dropped from IOS 10. No platform is a panacea. And at least your Lumias haven't exploded...
    Funny you mention Verizon.

    Is an unpatched bug on a phone you can buy from Verizon better or worse than a work-in-progress OS on a phone that you can't buy from them?

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    DustinRyan likes this.
    10-01-2016 09:19 PM
  23. Raygreen3's Avatar
    I am so happy to come back to using my trusty reliable snappy fast Windows 640 on the latest version of Windows 10 Mobile after struggling for almost a week trying to use my Samsung Galaxy S5 running Android 6. That phone can drive me crazy at times. It can sometimes just freeze up for no reason for like 10 seconds and then be back to normal. I hardly ever have that with my $40 640. Once in a great while it will have its moment. But Android 6 will be so flaky almost on a daily basis. Plus the battery drains like crazy on the Galaxy phone. I even just bought a new battery for it. I am lucky if I can get 6 or 7 hours before I have to put it on the charger.

    I still have a good amount of apps available on my Windows phone that I can get by until I get home to do anything that requires apps that are not on the Windows phone.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    10-11-2016 10:51 PM
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