05-28-2018 12:47 PM
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  1. fatclue_98's Avatar
    In theory they could. However, there are significant obstacles.

    1. Developers have no confidence in Microsoft
    2. Microsoft's natural community have mostly moved to Android
    3. There is no consumer ecosystem any more
    4. There is no enterprise ecosystem for their OS
    5. Microsoft are reluctant even to use the word phone
    6. They have let go the essential designers and people who understand about phone
    7. The investment required to rebuild all of the above is a lot more now than it was 6 months ago or a year ago
    8. Microsoft have spent the last year reducing expectations about a theoretical mobile device

    In practice it is becoming impossible for Microsoft to become even a minor player in mobile. They expertly destroyed their own market.
    You got 7 out of 8 right. There is a huge ecosystem for Enterprise you've probably never heard of. Fact is, very few have. Even fewer know that legacy WinMo 6.5.5 Embedded is alive and kicking with EDAs and other gadgets. If you've ever owned an Elite x3 you'll see there's a few HP-only apps pre-loaded and they're not for normal consumption.
    01-31-2018 06:37 PM
  2. hemanlive's Avatar
    How hard would it be for Microsoft to change its mind on windows phone and not kill it off? And i mean 'phone' in the truest sense of the word, not a device with telephony capabilities. Is there a reason why they couldn't revive it?
    Here is my take on it (with a disclaimer that none of MS' mobile strategy has ever made sense to me)

    I think what MS 'hopes' to do is to make the form factor of a PC smaller and more portable. Then it will add a calling feature to it and sell it as PC/Mobile phone. Not exactly what you mean when you say 'phone in the truest sense', but that is my best guess.

    If they do make a proper phone which is THE best phone out there in the market by some distance, they still won't be able to sell it.

    What they have demonstrated without any doubt is that they are unable to sell to consumers directly in a competitive scenario. Otherwise there was no reason for the best OS, running on one of the best hardware to fail so miserably. At one point in time the market share was increasing and app-gap was reducing. But it was MS which decided to step back and loose it all. Now no matter what they say, do or produce, no one is going to buy a 'phone' from MS. They still are selling PCs and if somehow they can make those PCs 'pocketable' and run smartphone apps, they might have a chance. Else, if it cannot run android apps there is no hope.
    01-31-2018 11:12 PM
  3. wpbestplayer's Avatar
    02-01-2018 07:43 AM
  4. John Dublin's Avatar
    I believe in thinking big and am a total loss as to why or how Microsoft could exit the phone OS business.

    What they need is leadership to help them get where they need to get.

    If they had the right person they could deliver a world beater of a Mobile OS.

    There are no limits to what can be achieved and the world needs a third way.

    Microsoft is best equipped to fund that third way.

    I have so many ideas as to how they could do that.

    The key reason they lost is the absence of a marketing genius but they do not come along very often.

    Steve Jobs for example doesn't happen very often.

    Yet I could think of a billion ways that they could get there and they only need one but it has to be the right one.

    I would also say this same reason is the reason Bing has not taken off.

    In relation to google we need a second way.

    They too are best positioned to be that second way.

    All they need is an inspirational leader who can get them there.

    In fairness Bill is approaching retirement so they need to think outside the box and get that genius.

    He or she does exist.
    02-01-2018 08:55 AM
  5. vEEP pEEP's Avatar
    Give it to HP. Maybe they can make it work - a pure O365 phone. Run it off a phone like the HP Elite. Replace desktops for most employees.
    02-01-2018 09:30 PM
  6. naddy6969's Avatar
    It's dead, Jim. Let the rotting corpse rest in peace.
    nate0 and theefman like this.
    02-03-2018 12:33 PM
  7. DavidinCT's Avatar
    How hard would it be for Microsoft to change its mind on windows phone and not kill it off? And i mean 'phone' in the truest sense of the word, not a device with telephony capabilities. Is there a reason why they couldn't revive it?
    They could never do it. It seems like they have no idea how to keep consumers. They cant keep letting people down like this.

    After 6 Windows Mobile phones and 8 HPC/PocketPC devices, I was huge fan of Microsoft mobile devices, Thousands of dollars over the years. The way they handled killing off Windows Phone/Mobile made me feel like I was completely abandoned and what I spent on devices is worthless to them.

    They disappointed too many people, damaged too many connections with devs, they just burned too many bushes with their actions of how they handled it.

    The thing is, they would need to spend more money than they did in the first place to try to recover from their screw up.

    It was a nice OS but, done by a company who thinks they are too big to fail. I honestly don't think there is a way they can come back from this
    zr2s10, naddy6969 and libra89 like this.
    02-05-2018 09:08 AM
  8. a5cent's Avatar
    It was a nice OS but, done by a company who thinks they are too big to fail. I honestly don't think there is a way they can come back from this
    A company can always come back. As long as there is money in the bank, in this case billions, nothing is impossible. If they manage to capture a market it simply doesn't matter what developers think either. Developers will go where money is to be made. Period.

    The real question is whether MS has the will to make something consumers actually want to use. Right now it doesn't look like it.
    fatclue_98 and nate0 like this.
    02-05-2018 01:00 PM
  9. DavidinCT's Avatar
    A company can always come back. As long as there is money in the bank, in this case billions, nothing is impossible. If they manage to capture a market it simply doesn't matter what developers think either. Developers will go where money is to be made. Period.

    The real question is whether MS has the will to make something consumers actually want to use. Right now it doesn't look like it.
    They would really have to completely start over at this point.

    After what they did to consumers, do you actually think the people that left would actually come back and TRUST Microsoft that they wont abandon people again ? Do you think the BIG devs who left would come back ? Odds on both are a high NO

    Personally, I would never trust Microsoft ever again on mobile devices. After thousands of dollars I spent over the years....Never again, Not a single dime on their devices any more.

    I loved the OS on the phone, I really did...
    02-05-2018 01:11 PM
  10. a5cent's Avatar
    After what they did to consumers, do you actually think the people that left would actually come back and TRUST Microsoft that they wont abandon people again ? Do you think the BIG devs who left would come back ? Odds on both are a high NO
    I understand your sentiment. We're just not talking about "all consumers". The people who feel as you do are WP/WM users. Even if not a single one of us ever bought an MS product again, there are still well over 95% of consumers left who don't feel burned the way WP/WM users do.

    And yes, developers, particularly big devs, will come back in an instant. If MS manages to nurture a market that becomes profitable, developers will be there, even if the number of people who felt burned was much larger. As far as business is concerned, money is what makes the world go around, not feelings.

    None of this really mattes. What does matter is if MS is both willing and still capable of delivering a product consumers actually want to use.
    fatclue_98 likes this.
    02-05-2018 01:28 PM
  11. DavidinCT's Avatar
    Yep, no question. Money is what it's all about and why companies are in business.

    Devs will come for the money but, with under 5% market share that Windows Phone/Microsoft MOBILE devices hit, a lot of devs would never come in the first place. The others who did, the common feel (and the replies from companies showed that) from devs were they were taking a risk putting resources into creating and supporting an application that only sees less than 5% of all mobile phones. Others would not even look at it because of their marketshare.

    I'll tell you this, those devs who came and took the risk only to get abandoned, will rethink their process. It's not about feelings, it's about lost money. It's why a lot of them just left and pulled their apps from Windows/Windows Mobile. Its why the Windows store is still missing some of the big apps.

    Business buys into Desktop applications, most companies are BYOD now days, any company who is still providing devices will stick with a iPhone or a Android device. Windows based devices I don't think would be even in the running any more.

    It really would take a lot from Microsoft in $$$ to turn this around... I just don't see it happening. They were a day late and a dime short on Windows Phone, and it cost them billions to try to turn it around with a max of 5% to show for it.
    02-05-2018 01:38 PM
  12. a5cent's Avatar
    It really would take a lot from Microsoft in $$$ to turn this around... I just don't see it happening. They were a day late and a dime short on Windows Phone, and it cost them billions to try to turn it around with a max of 5% to show for it.
    I think we basically agree, we're just looking at this from different angles.

    It sounds like you're contemplating how MS could continue along the mobile phone path they are already on and turn that around. I see virtually no chance of that happening either, particularly if they insist on their stupid strategy that developers must come before users. As I've been telling MS for a decade now, that was never and will never happen. Users must have a reason to want and buy the product without any developers being on board.

    I'm not thinking about mobile phones. I'm thinking about any consumer product. Anything. Ideally something that doesn't exist yet at all, and no, I don't think Andromeda or Polaris will change anything. As far as I can tell those are evolutionary products, which aren't even really focused on consumers. Evolutionary won't cut it. MS needs something revolutionary.
    02-05-2018 01:49 PM
  13. DavidinCT's Avatar
    I think we basically agree, we're just looking at this from different angles.

    It sounds like you're contemplating how MS could continue along the mobile phone path they are already on and turn that around. I see virtually no chance of that happening either, particularly if they insist on their stupid strategy that developers must come before users. As I've been telling MS for a decade now, that was never and will never happen. Users must have a reason to want and buy the product without any developers being on board.

    I'm not thinking about mobile phones. I'm thinking about any consumer product. Anything. Ideally something that doesn't exist yet at all, and no, I don't think Andromeda or Polaris will change anything. As far as I can tell those are evolutionary products, which aren't even really focused on consumers. Evolutionary won't cut it. MS needs something revolutionary.
    Well this thread is about "Could Microsoft revive windows phone" and it's why my reply is about such but, agreed we are looking at this from slightly different angles.

    On the Mobile phone I can see why they started and pushed "developers must come before users" because the mobile market is about apps (and it's where all the money is made). You cant take a phone and drop it out there with out some backing of the top 20 apps (as a Windows Phone 7 thing was the top 20 apps and they paid big for that for crappy non updated apps)

    They needed something DIFFERENT and giving people a reason why they wanted it. Live Tiles was an epic idea on a phone, and its why it did OK but, the application and hardware support was the thing that killed it.

    About the ONLY way Microsoft could come back into mobile AND might have a shot is to release an Android device with the full Windows 10 mobile loader.

    And they need serious WOW factor and they just are not there....
    02-05-2018 02:00 PM
  14. TgeekB's Avatar
    Keep dreaming.
    No way, no how for at least 10 years or so. Even then they would have to come up with “the next best thing” and hope people had forgotten how they got treated.
    BlackBerry had the corporate world in their pocket and look what happened. People don’t easily forget.
    Guytronic and theefman like this.
    02-05-2018 04:58 PM
  15. a5cent's Avatar
    Well this thread is about "Could Microsoft revive windows phone" and it's why my reply is about such but, agreed we are looking at this from slightly different angles.....
    Yeah, re-reading now I see that. For some reason I got the impression you were saying MS has no chance of recovering and making amends with consumers in general. Sorry.

    On the Mobile phone I can see why they started and pushed "developers must come before users" because the mobile market is about apps (and it's where all the money is made)
    No. I don't see that. It's baffled me since 2012.

    The rules of economics dictate that you must have a functioning marketplace/ecosystem before 3rd party developers will risk making their own investments.

    MS had only one path to success, which was to make a device that was uniquely useful in a way that it would achieve sales DESPITE the app gap, thereby creating a user base. Only then would devs have come. This is an immutable property of how free markets work.

    The iPhone also started life with 0 apps (beyond what it shipped with). Its unique value proposition came from being the only phone with a decent mobile browser. That's why it sold. That's what kick-started the ecosystem. Devs and apps came afterwards.

    To my mind it was obvious that after having come late, and not attempting to be anything more than a better app launcher (with fewer apps of lower quality) MS mobile efforts were doomed to fail.

    I've been saying so in these forums since 2012. I always expected MS to bring something obviously unique to the table. If you can't beat the competition at the app launching game, you MUST change the game. MS never attempted to change the game. I gave up on it when W10M hit for that reason
    Last edited by a5cent; 02-06-2018 at 06:21 AM.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    02-05-2018 05:57 PM
  16. Jeep1962's Avatar
    My opinion is that if MS made a app bridge with Iphone or/and Android it would not have been so bad! If you read the forums people say goodbye to W10M after the most essential apps disappeared like bank apps. There was a couple of years ago been spoken about they worked on a app bridge but after a while no one talked about it anymore. It's a sad thing killing a platform like this. But I still use my Lumia 950 daily, is also my only smartphone!!
    02-06-2018 03:43 AM
  17. Jeep1962's Avatar
    So this bein' said, I'm afraid now at this time it's too late. Several times I send mails and messages to MS support/helpdesks to make more PR and to put pressure on the making of a app bridge, got an answer that they would send it to the people working on it, see what happened, nothing !!
    02-06-2018 03:49 AM
  18. LokeTT's Avatar
    I don't think MS have to spend so much brainpower atm, they just need to make it possible for people to move the OS from device to device.

    Kinda like we did in the old days, we are past the floopy, hell even the DVD is yesterday. Let me buy a samsung, and with a usb cable i will install MS on my phone.

    Today there are 2 options, android or apple, android is close to 90% and that is scary in so many ways, so give us an alternative.

    And regarding programs (apps), well we all know they all talk to the same server more or less, so we "just" need the programmers to make programs that works with the device and not the OS.
    Kinda like telling them that the road is the same (but that is a longer road i guess).
    02-06-2018 07:32 AM
  19. farhanaxiq's Avatar
    Give it to HP. Maybe they can make it work - a pure O365 phone. Run it off a phone like the HP Elite. Replace desktops for most employees.
    they kill webOS, so, no
    fatclue_98 and xandros9 like this.
    02-10-2018 09:22 AM
  20. dotnetprono1's Avatar
    Human beings are wasting a lot of time, money and human resources on some things that should have been created just ONCE for the only involved purposes, here they are:

    - Web Browser: why the hell do people on this planet need more than 1 web browser (suppose just for one platform, PC, mobile, ...)? We just need one perfect web browser managed and maintained by some International organization. I vote for something like Chrome. Other browsers should not have even born. It will save a lot of money for the world.

    - PC OS, Phone OS, Phone Hardware: why the hell do people on this planet need more than 1 of these? We just need a perfect one. I vote for Windows OS, Windows Phone and some hardware base unit manufactured by just one International Organization. Other organizations can contribute but should not publish anything (as official). That will save a lot of money for the world. Android OS should have been completely dead right after born, that's the best thing God could give to the world, but he slept away and forgot doing that cool thing. iOS is a bit better, kind of worth surviving BUT still we just need one perfect thing, so just give Microsoft's stuffs the chance.

    Developer will become headache-FREE, A LOT OF MONEY will be saved for the world. And the end users will always be happy, there will be no fans or anti-fans, no competition, no dispute... They just need to experience the International Products and provides feedback to help all involved developers improve them better and better.

    That of course would never happen, it's too ideal. The most important key point driving all the processes here is MONEY. That's for all.
    02-27-2018 10:26 PM
  21. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Human beings are wasting a lot of time, money and human resources on some things that should have been created just ONCE for the only involved purposes, here they are:

    - Web Browser: why the hell do people on this planet need more than 1 web browser (suppose just for one platform, PC, mobile, ...)? We just need one perfect web browser managed and maintained by some International organization. I vote for something like Chrome. Other browsers should not have even born. It will save a lot of money for the world.

    - PC OS, Phone OS, Phone Hardware: why the hell do people on this planet need more than 1 of these? We just need a perfect one. I vote for Windows OS, Windows Phone and some hardware base unit manufactured by just one International Organization. Other organizations can contribute but should not publish anything (as official). That will save a lot of money for the world. Android OS should have been completely dead right after born, that's the best thing God could give to the world, but he slept away and forgot doing that cool thing. iOS is a bit better, kind of worth surviving BUT still we just need one perfect thing, so just give Microsoft's stuffs the chance.

    Developer will become headache-FREE, A LOT OF MONEY will be saved for the world. And the end users will always be happy, there will be no fans or anti-fans, no competition, no dispute... They just need to experience the International Products and provides feedback to help all involved developers improve them better and better.

    That of course would never happen, it's too ideal. The most important key point driving all the processes here is MONEY. That's for all.
    Che Guevara would be so proud of you.
    02-28-2018 01:37 PM
  22. a5cent's Avatar
    Che Guevara would be so proud of you.
    I couldn't have said it better myself. Marx, Lenin and Mao too!
    02-28-2018 01:53 PM
  23. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I couldn't have said it better myself. Marx, Lenin and Mao too!
    You forgot Papá Fidel.
    02-28-2018 02:06 PM
  24. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Human beings are wasting a lot of time, money and human resources on some things that should have been created just ONCE for the only involved purposes, here they are:

    - Web Browser: ...I vote for something like Chrome. Other browsers should not have even born...
    Yet I say, "Die, Chrome, Die. And an agonizing death at that." I will never, ever cede Google/Alphabet absolute right to be the sole portal of the world wide web.

    What's wrong with you that you would vote for such a thing? Their propensity to declare moral superiority as guaranteeing the right to decide what you can and can't see is horrific. And their stance that it is their inalienable right to milk your data like a cash cow is legendary.

    I'll be done with tech and the internet before I'll submit to living in the hell you desire.

    Why are you declaring war on freedom of choice? Not everyone wants to be beige.

    And why would you want to concentrate so much power in the hands of a bureaucracy. Madness and ruin.
    a5cent, fatclue_98, nate0 and 1 others like this.
    02-28-2018 03:01 PM
  25. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Why are you declaring war on freedom of choice? Not everyone wants to be beige.
    Maybe he's only hugged one species of tree.
    RumoredNow and a5cent like this.
    02-28-2018 06:13 PM
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