02-15-2012 01:35 PM
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  1. gtg465x's Avatar
    After extensive testing, I'm quite positive AT&T is artificially limiting network speed on their version of the Titan by limiting the HSDPA feature set to category 8. The phone hardware of course is able to support HSDPA category 10 features.

    To be clear, enabling HSDPA category 10 features doesn't just raise the theoretical maximum throughput to 14.1 Mbps. HSDPA category 10 features should improve performance across the board, even when throughput is below the theoretical maximum of HSDPA category 8, which is 7.2 Mbps.

    My theory is based on testing in multiple markets, with and without advanced backhaul, against an LG Thrill and Samsung Galaxy S II. On the two Android phones I am able to adjust and verify the HSDPA category. The LG Thrill set to HSDPA category 10 and the Galaxy S II set to HSDPA category 14 both get about twice the network performance of the HTC Titan in any given location using the same sim card.

    If you're skeptical that AT&T would essentially disable HSPA+ on a phone they're advertising as HSPA+ 4G enabled, look no further than the LG Thrill. It has been proven by analyzing code and hidden settings that it was shipped with the HSDPA category set to 8. Setting it to 10 on the LG Thrill roughly doubles network performance for most people. AT&T does this to lighten the load on their network and they figure most people will never notice. Maybe you remember the AT&T HSUPA fiasco that gained wide media coverage early this year. So there are multiple cases of past precedent for this kind of behavior from AT&T.

    Anyways, on Android phones it isn't a big deal because we can easily set the proper HSDPA category in our custom ROMs. Windows Phone, however, is closed and very locked down so we have no way (that I know of) to adjust, or even verify, this setting.

    The international Titan is undoubtedly not restricted in this way, but apparently it doesn't support AT&T's 1900 MHz frequency so we can't compare performance directly to prove foul play. That said, if anyone has both phones I would like to see some network speed comparisons between the two, or maybe a comparison to other Windows Phones on AT&T's network (though AT&T could be limiting all of them).

    If anyone is seeing speeds above 7.2 Mbps on their AT&T Titan it would prove my theory wrong, so please report if you've seen 8-12 Mbps on your AT&T Titan at any time on AT&T's network. These speeds may seem high, but they're fairly common now in HSPA+ areas with advanced backhaul.

    The only other possibilities are poorly set TCP buffer sizes or just flat horrible radio hardware, but knowing AT&T the speeds we're seeing are artificially limited.

    I used this site in the browser for most testing: http://www.ispgeeks.com/wild/modules...idth_Meter_DSL I also used the BandWidth app as well as several other sites to verify my findings.

    edit: Forgot to give you an idea of how large the disparity is. At my house outside of Atlanta there is no advanced backhaul and I'm getting 2-3 Mbps on the Titan compared to 3-4 Mbps on my Android phones. In the city where there is advanced backhaul in place I'm maxing out around 4 Mbps on the Titan compared to 8-10 Mbps on my Android phones.
    Last edited by gtg465x; 12-02-2011 at 11:36 AM.
    neshyd likes this.
    12-02-2011 11:21 AM
  2. pdangcil's Avatar
    I do not have HSPA+ in my area yet, so I can't help you. I do however notice the speed increase, however minimal it is, between my Titan and my old Focus. But in all, I'm very happy with the speed so far 1.5mbps average. My Wi-Fi at home is only 4mbps!!!
    12-02-2011 11:28 AM
  3. gtg465x's Avatar
    At my house outside of Atlanta there is no advanced backhaul and I'm getting 2-3 Mbps on the Titan compared to 3-4 Mbps on my Android phones. In the city where there is advanced backhaul in place I'm maxing out around 4 Mbps on the Titan compared to 8-10 Mbps on my Android phones.
    12-02-2011 11:35 AM
  4. palandri's Avatar
    What tool are you using to measure your download Mbps?
    12-02-2011 11:40 AM
  5. gtg465x's Avatar
    What tool are you using to measure your download Mbps?
    Check the bottom of the first post. I used multiple apps and websites to make sure it wasn't just a certain app or server providing inaccurate results.
    12-02-2011 11:42 AM
  6. Brunothesheep's Avatar
    I'm getting between 1.8 and 2.4. That's insane. In my Focus S I'm usually around 8!!

    Sent from my HTC Titan using Board Express
    12-02-2011 12:00 PM
  7. pdangcil's Avatar
    So, is it a Titan specific issue then?
    12-02-2011 12:05 PM
  8. gtg465x's Avatar
    So, is it a Titan specific issue then?
    I don't own any other Windows Phones so I couldn't tell you.
    12-02-2011 12:10 PM
  9. Rocket_Girl's Avatar
    I am getting great speeds with wi-fi ON and cellular OFF. wo tests using Bandwith app were 1.05 and 11.5, respectively. With wi-fi OFF and cellular ON, I am not able to even load a page. I am in an area that shows 4G as my connection. Bandwidth test shows server timeout.

    Something here seems to be bugger than speed limits, per se... but my Titan seems to be semi-functional at best right now. Started choking last night, now that I think about it (I use cell connection at home and wi-fi during the day).

    Harumph!!!
    boneycat likes this.
    12-02-2011 01:03 PM
  10. Blacklac's Avatar
    I was wondering how accurate the Bandwidth App was. I have a hard time getting solid Wifi speeds too.

    I just did a Wifi test, same server location.
    Titan: 10Mbps down, 2.8Mbps up. 120ms ping.
    Playbook Tablet: 30Mbps down, 2.77Mbps up, 26ms.

    I seem to get nearly half the speeds as my buddy with an iPhone 4 also on ATT.
    boneycat likes this.
    12-02-2011 01:06 PM
  11. Rocket_Girl's Avatar
    I am getting great speeds with wi-fi ON and cellular OFF. wo tests using Bandwith app were 1.05 and 11.5, respectively. With wi-fi OFF and cellular ON, I am not able to even load a page. I am in an area that shows 4G as my connection. Bandwidth test shows server timeout.

    Something here seems to be bugger than speed limits, per se... but my Titan seems to be semi-functional at best right now. Started choking last night, now that I think about it (I use cell connection at home and wi-fi during the day).

    Harumph!!!
    UPDATE: just managed to get a few bandwidth readings using "4G":
    1.07
    1.55
    0.57 (not a typo.... the that is really a zero)

    ?????
    12-02-2011 01:08 PM
  12. kevm14's Avatar
    Hopefully this is something they can fix with firmware/updates. I am new to AT&T (switched from Sprint 3G) and I have NOT been impressed with the "4G."
    12-02-2011 01:09 PM
  13. Rocket_Girl's Avatar
    After extensive testing, I'm quite positive AT&T is artificially limiting network speed on their version of the Titan by limiting the HSDPA feature set to category 8. The phone hardware of course is able to support HSDPA category 10 features.

    To be clear, enabling HSDPA category 10 features doesn't just raise the theoretical maximum throughput to 14.1 Mbps. HSDPA category 10 features should improve performance across the board, even when throughput is below the theoretical maximum of HSDPA category 8, which is 7.2 Mbps.

    My theory is based on testing in multiple markets, with and without advanced backhaul, against an LG Thrill and Samsung Galaxy S II. On the two Android phones I am able to adjust and verify the HSDPA category. The LG Thrill set to HSDPA category 10 and the Galaxy S II set to HSDPA category 14 both get about twice the network performance of the HTC Titan in any given location using the same sim card.

    If you're skeptical that AT&T would essentially disable HSPA+ on a phone they're advertising as HSPA+ 4G enabled, look no further than the LG Thrill. It has been proven by analyzing code and hidden settings that it was shipped with the HSDPA category set to 8. Setting it to 10 on the LG Thrill roughly doubles network performance for most people. AT&T does this to lighten the load on their network and they figure most people will never notice. Maybe you remember the AT&T HSUPA fiasco that gained wide media coverage early this year. So there are multiple cases of past precedent for this kind of behavior from AT&T.

    Anyways, on Android phones it isn't a big deal because we can easily set the proper HSDPA category in our custom ROMs. Windows Phone, however, is closed and very locked down so we have no way (that I know of) to adjust, or even verify, this setting.

    The international Titan is undoubtedly not restricted in this way, but apparently it doesn't support AT&T's 1900 MHz frequency so we can't compare performance directly to prove foul play. That said, if anyone has both phones I would like to see some network speed comparisons between the two, or maybe a comparison to other Windows Phones on AT&T's network (though AT&T could be limiting all of them).

    If anyone is seeing speeds above 7.2 Mbps on their AT&T Titan it would prove my theory wrong, so please report if you've seen 8-12 Mbps on your AT&T Titan at any time on AT&T's network. These speeds may seem high, but they're fairly common now in HSPA+ areas with advanced backhaul.

    The only other possibilities are poorly set TCP buffer sizes or just flat horrible radio hardware, but knowing AT&T the speeds we're seeing are artificially limited.

    I used this site in the browser for most testing: Mobile Speed Test - Internet Speed Diagnostics, Benchmarks, Voip Diagnostics, Internet Bandwidth Forums - ISPgeeks.com I also used the BandWidth app as well as several other sites to verify my findings.

    edit: Forgot to give you an idea of how large the disparity is. At my house outside of Atlanta there is no advanced backhaul and I'm getting 2-3 Mbps on the Titan compared to 3-4 Mbps on my Android phones. In the city where there is advanced backhaul in place I'm maxing out around 4 Mbps on the Titan compared to 8-10 Mbps on my Android phones.
    Compulsively testing now, alternating wi-fi only with cellular only.
    Wi-fi is sensational: highest download speed is 18.48 down, 6.44 up (others were 7.05 down 6.29 up; and 11.58 down 3.53 up)

    On cellular only (I am in an HSPA area - connection shows 4G):
    about half are server timeout. Zip.
    Others are: 1.55 up / 0.79 down; 0.57 up/ 0.48 down; 1.53 up/ 0.76 down

    Seems to support your theory...
    12-02-2011 01:16 PM
  14. Duvi's Avatar
    Doesn't that sound more like an HTC Titan thing versus an AT&T thing? You're able to get good speeds with AT&T devices, but different manufacturers.
    12-02-2011 01:16 PM
  15. Blacklac's Avatar
    Is there any way to read network specifics on Mango? I saw a couple videos on Youtube showing some of ATT's HSPA+ Android phones showing 4G but the OS was only reporting HSDPA.
    12-02-2011 01:18 PM
  16. Duvi's Avatar
    Hopefully this is something they can fix with firmware/updates. I am new to AT&T (switched from Sprint 3G) and I have NOT been impressed with the "4G."
    My AT&T 3G is faster than Sprint's WiMax, at least for me.
    12-02-2011 01:18 PM
  17. kevm14's Avatar
    AT&T probably specified the ROM setting.

    Also, I was impressed with 1.5Mbps 3 years ago, but in 2011, especially with something referred to as "4G," I expect much better.
    12-02-2011 01:18 PM
  18. gtg465x's Avatar
    All of AT&T's HSPA+ phones are programmed to say H+ or 4G in the status bar regardless of whether you're actually in an HSPA+ area with advanced backhaul or not.
    12-02-2011 01:30 PM
  19. gtg465x's Avatar
    Doesn't that sound more like an HTC Titan thing versus an AT&T thing? You're able to get good speeds with AT&T devices, but different manufacturers.
    AT&T doesn't artificially limit all of their phones. The iPhone isn't and they usually don't limit their most popular Android phones because the openness of Android makes it very easy for Android developers to figure it out and cause an uproar. Windows phone on the other hand is locked pretty tight. We can't get in and look at source code or decompiled apps, so they likely figure they can get away with it.
    12-02-2011 01:36 PM
  20. jenashley's Avatar
    Is anyone able to test this theory alongside a Focus S?

    Was this slowdown noticeable BEFORE this thread was posted, I wonder?
    12-02-2011 01:45 PM
  21. HeyCori's Avatar
    All of AT&T's HSPA+ phones are programmed to say H+ or 4G in the status bar regardless of whether you're actually in an HSPA+ area with advanced backhaul or not.
    I was wondering about that too. My phone says 4G but I don't have 4G coverage in my area. The closest place with 4G LTE is Chicago which is about 2 hours away. Regular 4G is again a couple hours away. According to ATTs coverage map I just have regular mobile broadband.

    While I do wish I had legit 4G in my area that's not a huge concern to me. What is a problem is how weak the wireless antenna is on the Titan. I swear it reaches only half as far as my Focus. Not only that, the Titan seems to take longer to connect and appears to have a harder time staying connected.

    It seems like I'm going to have to rely a lot more on ATTs fake 4G speeds for data even though I work in a building that has wifi on every floor. I don't use a lot of data so my 2GB plan should be good enough.
    12-02-2011 02:15 PM
  22. Rob41664's Avatar
    I decided to give the Titan another try after everyone kept raving about it thinking I must have missed something when I tried it for a few days instead of my Focus S. I can attest to the fact that my Focus S averages over twice the speed of the Titan on the very same tests done at the very same place. Both my WIFI speeds and 4G are both slower on the Titan.
    12-02-2011 02:26 PM
  23. pdangcil's Avatar
    I decided to give the Titan another try after everyone kept raving about it thinking I must have missed something when I tried it for a few days instead of my Focus S. I can attest to the fact that my Focus S averages over twice the speed of the Titan on the very same tests done at the very same place. Both my WIFI speeds and 4G are both slower on the Titan.
    WOW!!! I find it hard to believe but I guess, it's true. So is this a Titan specific thing because obviously, it's not AT&T?
    12-02-2011 02:35 PM
  24. Major's Avatar
    Why would AT&T limit the speed on the Titan but not on the Focus S? I doubt HTC would willfully hamstring their device while their competition is unhindered. Considering how many people are complaining about signal strength, it would not be surprising if this was a hardware issue.
    12-02-2011 02:58 PM
  25. kltye's Avatar
    I had the same unreliable/slow network speeds when I when I had the Focus S for two weeks. For me, if it works, it works fine. But most of the time, I'm getting network timeouts, i.e. completely non-functional data connection. It's become such a problem for me that I'm usually surprised when the data works.

    EDIT: This isn't a signal strength issue; at least not for me. I can have full bars of "4G" and still be unable to use the data network.
    12-02-2011 03:02 PM
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