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05-16-2014 07:43 AM
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  1. Jas00555's Avatar



    There is a far cry from Google's ceasing to support a particular level of Android (Android apps still work on newer version of the OS) and Microsoft's cold dropping app support across OS versions. (ie. Apps developed for WM 6.5 would not run on WP7).
    I disagree completely with this. I've got a Moto X and there are multiple apps that still aren't compatible. You can't really expect an older phone OS to be compatible with a newer, completely different interface. I mean, ok , fine, you've got a point with Windows Mobile apps to an extent, but WP7 apps were almost completely compatible with WP8. Considering how different WM6.5 and WP7 looked, I would argue that separating the two was the best decision if they wanted to stick with "Metro".
    prasath1234 likes this.
    05-08-2014 07:04 PM
  2. Tjarren's Avatar
    People don't like change, but using smartphones and tablets were a change from what they had been using before. People don't like different, but smartphones and tablets are different than what they were used to.
    So what DO people want? They have no idea and neither do I. People are a confusing mess of contradictions and illogic, thus Windows Phone's marketshare ...
    05-08-2014 07:43 PM
  3. MDMcAtee's Avatar
    6.5 wasn't all about the os in it's failure,it was mostly about the equipment it ran on. My dedicated keyboard failed so many times,and the work around the techs at the Sprint store were too numerous to count.It was the only phone I ever had that had to be rebooted 3 x a day to keep running.

    All one has to do is look at who are giving phones away,heck Sprint is giving both a S5 and a tablet away just to sign on,I don't think Microsoft is ever going to do this.

    Apple fans will stay with Apple,they are loyal and believe Jobs is still running the company from the grave.

    They have a lot going for them and the hype is deafening at their roll out times. This is where Microsoft has to compete...they have to be louder bolder and outspend them while offering true innovation. Android has shown the world that being the loudest works,even when the innovation doesn't live up to the hype.

    People have to have to be shown suitable alternatives that work flawlessly for all of Google and Apple's services. Which means if they want to steal market share they need to steal both Apple's and Androids marketing firms and fire the lame ones they got,and invest in developers who can produce.

    Simple as that

    Mac
    05-08-2014 07:43 PM
  4. undulose's Avatar
    I've always thought if Windows Phone was as good as IOS or Android & 95% of the major apps where there it would see a good adoption rate, but something that happened to me 2 times this week have me thinking MS has a lot of work to do. One was with my 17 yr old & the other with my wife.

    Situation #1

    We were out eating dinner with friend who are moving. Dinner was over & it's time for the group photo. I'm the only WP user everyone else has IPhones (1 out of 4) We all pull our phones out, my daughter who is the photo queen of the family says "use daddy's camera it's way better than ours especially in bad light" I give the waiter my phone he takes the pic & comments on how nice the photo was along with the screen. He then asks what kind of phone is it. I reply it's a Nokia windows phone without even thinking. My daughter then chimes in & says "yeah, it's a really cool phone with a killer camera, but I don't like it because it too different." The waiter replies, "yeah, I would get lost trying to use it & go nuts. Too bad it's not like my IPhone."

    Situation #2

    My wife needed to use my phone to search for something while shopping. She grabs my phones & starts looking at the screen (looking for Safari I guess?) I tell her to hit the search button & start typing what she is looking for, you don't have to open the browser & Google it.... She immediately says this isn't Google & need Google to search. I said you don't need Google to search. She sits there & stares at the screen for a sec or 2 & says " I don't like it, it's different" I then long pressed the search button asked Cortana to search for what she wanted, the results came up very fast with all the normal WP 8.1 results. She then says " That was really cool, but I don't care if it's better or faster, it's different & I don't like it."

    You have 2 generations of smartphone users, two 17 yr olds & a 42 yr old that have the same mind set. Which is They don't care if the product or software is better. They don't like it & refuse to even try it because it's different than what they currently know. It is too much of a hassle or bother to learn something new even if it is faster or better. Think about that & how you combat that frame of mind as I suspect most average consumers(because these 3 are your typical everyday consumer) think the same. Go with what is comfortable, safe & everyone else has even it is slower or doesn't have all the best feature?

    I don't like the way you generalize 2 generations of smartphone users when the two people you've mentioned have the same genes and even at the same house. Their personality may be close; that's why they agreed at the same thing.







    Sent from my Nokia Lumia 1520 (RM-937 Malaysia) using Tapatalk
    05-08-2014 07:50 PM
  5. JamesPTao's Avatar
    My biggest problems with Microsoft devices and why I think they have failed to reap the success is because of two things. Weak and inconsistent marketing and lack of dedication to the devices. 1st example was Zune. Great device and Zune 2.0 was fantastic but you couldn't find one anywhere and unless you knew a friend that had one or you had the first Gen you were left with the unaswered question why buy a Zune. And they weren't even carried in walmarts until a couple of months before being disco tinued. Example 2 surface. Now they have advertised more than Zune, which is t saying much, but again where are they. WalMart has them but you will never see them unless you're looking for them and two minutes later you'll find the boxes in the case in a bottom corner with only the side viewable. Really? How about pay for the space and have the models running with the advertisement space like apple. People are familiar and confortable (feel safe) with apple and google. They may be interested in a surface but until they can see one running, hold one you think they're going to gamble with $500 to get one. Especially if they aren't clear about the true benefits over the competition. How about Microsoft fire their devices ad team and hire nokias for all if their devices. At least they have an idea if what they are doing.
    05-08-2014 07:56 PM
  6. rodan01's Avatar
    There was a time, before some here were old enough to read, when Apple was teetering on the verge of insolvency and Microsoft was on the top of the heap of mobile handheld computing and smartphones. What happened? Arrogance at being on top.
    iOS and Android happened. The development of these OSs started in 2003. I guess Microsoft started the development of Windows Phone 7 the next day after the iPhone was presented by Jobs in 2007. So, 4 years is too late even for Microsoft.
    Maybe they could have waited a year more to use in WP7 the same core they were developing for Windows 8, giving you the backward compatibility you demand, but WP would be dead like BlackBerry 10.
    05-08-2014 08:07 PM
  7. SwimSwim's Avatar
    No, innovation isn't about making the previous generations of a device feel obsolete. It is a fine balance... that is where incrementalism comes in. It is arrogant for a company to produce a follow on generation of a device soon after the previous in a way that instantly makes the previous generation look and feel useless. It makes the early adopters and current customers feel abandoned.

    How many times has Microsoft proverbally kicked early adopters in the teeth?

    Apple was successful in building their customer base (loyalty) by producing a good product for the current generation. Then producing an upgrade that was a little better here, a little better there. No one area of the device was dramatically better than the previous gen. But taken as a whole, it added up to a significant upgrade. People who purchased a gen "x" iPod didn't feel suckered when Apple produced the "X+1" gen.

    Microsoft needs to satisfy the customers of their CURRENT generation so that when it is time to upgrade, they'll be confident in doing so.
    I still see it foolish to hold back innovating, just for the sake of keeping a few people happy. I agree Microsoft burns users way too much (WP 7.8 wasn't much, and only a couple of devices ever officially received the update. Horrible.), but it's still overall better to push forward and create incentive to upgrade.

    Will a couple be upset that they don't have the latest and greatest device anymore? Of course, but that's the way technology is these days. One day you have the greatest device around, the next: it's ancient. Get used to it.

    I think it's absurd to stifle innovation just to satisfy people who can't take the fact that technology much push forward. Note, I'm not saying companies just change everything overnight and then completely abandon loyal customers, not at all. Microsoft should continue to support older devices, certainly. But they should also give everything they've got to create the next big thing in technology, so that loyal old customers think it's worthy enough to upgrade from their current devices, and to get people to think Microsoft's ecosystem is worth to switch too.

    As you say, it's a fine balance. Keep the old users supported with everything their current devices can handle, but that said: don't be afraid to truly test the limits of technology and push forward.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    05-08-2014 08:32 PM
  8. Pierre Blackwell's Avatar
    I think Microsoft has shown that they have at least for the most part learned from their mistakes. I think that like anyone who at some point had a monopoly type of hold on service or product, they got arrogant and complacent. Well, look at Apple now. A lot of their products are becoming stale, and redundant. It's a reciprocating cycle. Microsoft's progress is evident in the steadily increasing market share impressions they are making worldwide. What makes this even more impressive is that most of it is at the expense of converting Andriod or iPhone users, so people are converting more and more despite the so called "app gap" and the prospect of having to relearn a new ecosystem. The reality is that most of us at some point have worked with a Microsoft product so it won't be a complete neophyte like experience. There are a lot of things that MS can do to expedite closing the disparity between the two other mobile ecosystems. Give it time. I'm sure iPhone and Andriod aren't looking at right now, they're looking at five years from now, and I'm sure they are worried about WP's steadily increasing popularity.
    05-08-2014 09:34 PM
  9. rex.reyesiii's Avatar
    Now Apple is buying Beats for $3B. How will MS top that?

    Apple may buy Beats Electronics for $3.2 billion, reports say | PCWorld
    Last edited by rex.reyesiii; 05-08-2014 at 10:56 PM. Reason: added Link
    05-08-2014 10:53 PM
  10. SwimSwim's Avatar
    I think Microsoft has shown that they have at least for the most part learned from their mistakes. I think that like anyone who at some point had a monopoly type of hold on service or product, they got arrogant and complacent. Well, look at Apple now. A lot of their products are becoming stale, and redundant. It's a reciprocating cycle. Microsoft's progress is evident in the steadily increasing market share impressions they are making worldwide. What makes this even more impressive is that most of it is at the expense of converting Andriod or iPhone users, so people are converting more and more despite the so called "app gap" and the prospect of having to relearn a new ecosystem. The reality is that most of us at some point have worked with a Microsoft product so it won't be a complete neophyte like experience. There are a lot of things that MS can do to expedite closing the disparity between the two other mobile ecosystems. Give it time. I'm sure iPhone and Andriod aren't looking at right now, they're looking at five years from now, and I'm sure they are worried about WP's steadily increasing popularity.
    "When we hit our lowest point, we are open to the greatest change."
    ~ Avatar Aang
    bijak_riyandi likes this.
    05-08-2014 10:55 PM
  11. Jas00555's Avatar
    Now Apple is buying Beats for $3B. How will MS top that?

    Apple may buy Beats Electronics for $3.2 billion, reports say | PCWorld
    By buying Nokia for twice that (; . I'm sure Beats and Apple will be perfect for each other. Both sell overpriced products that you can buy for less from their competitors. Its like they were made for each other.
    05-08-2014 11:04 PM
  12. mobile divide's Avatar
    The first post hits the nail on the head. My wife used Nokia her whole life and then switched to the iPhone with the 4S we both used iPhones until I got my Lumia 920 and now 1020 and she has an iPhone 5S. Whenever it comes to taking pictures or videos of our little one she always reaches for my phone. I show her cool stuff like Cortana and the Facebook integrations, live tiles lockscreen changing apps, offline maps and she loves it all. I asked her if she wanted to move to windows and her reaction was "its so different from my iPhone I just want a phone where I know what I need to do." I think WP8.1 is the best OS at this point especially if you aren't tied to a specific ecosystem but its hard to get people to consider outside their comfort zone.
    JamesPTao and SwimSwim like this.
    05-08-2014 11:50 PM
  13. Reflexx's Avatar
    Well, it's good that Windows 8 is so similar to Windows Phone in look and feel.

    In time, Windows Phone will seem more comfortable because people use Windows 8 at home.
    JamesPTao likes this.
    05-09-2014 12:30 AM
  14. prasath1234's Avatar
    I think everyone is missing an important fact. 35% of cell phone users are still using feature phones and this is where Microsoft needs to focus. They need to try to capture the new smartphone owners that have no history with I phone or android. In addition to increased marketing and advertising as mentioned above I would give mid level window phones to customers feature phones customers for free and give them high level phones at a 60-75% discount. These people need a reason to try something other than what their friends and family are using.
    Good idea take the feature phone market shares from the globe.nd convert low end android to wp.price high end products aggressively like lumia 930. Nd give a demo app to all persons when starting the wp phones as a option to wp smartphone begginers.wp can win share from low end android which are a pain to use. Low end android users wait for change lure them into wp they will never go back to android.in my observation those gping for low end android dont play latest nd greatest game they dont care about apps.they want a smartphone.price wp phones in india with price tag of 7000 to 8000.nd see wp growth.

    Sent from my C2305 using WPCentral Forums mobile app
    05-09-2014 12:33 AM
  15. rex.reyesiii's Avatar
    By buying Nokia for twice that (; . I'm sure Beats and Apple will be perfect for each other. Both sell overpriced products that you can buy for less from their competitors. Its like they were made for each other.
    I agree. Am an AKG/FiiO/iBasso/NAD/PSB guy. :)

    But Apple buying Beats is different. Both are "on the top" of the Hill already thats MS/Nokia is climbing... hope that makes sense. LOL.
    05-09-2014 12:41 AM
  16. prasath1234's Avatar
    No, innovation isn't about making the previous generations of a device feel obsolete. It is a fine balance... that is where incrementalism comes in. It is arrogant for a company to produce a follow on generation of a device soon after the previous in a way that instantly makes the previous generation look and feel useless. It makes the early adopters and current customers feel abandoned.

    How many times has Microsoft proverbally kicked early adopters in the teeth?

    Apple was successful in building their customer base (loyalty) by producing a good product for the current generation. Then producing an upgrade that was a little better here, a little better there. No one area of the device was dramatically better than the previous gen. But taken as a whole, it added up to a significant upgrade. People who purchased a gen "x" iPod didn't feel suckered when Apple produced the "X+1" gen.

    Microsoft needs to satisfy the customers of their CURRENT generation so that when it is time to upgrade, they'll be confident in doing so.
    Hey this is game played by samsung also then why people buying thier latest gadgets. Infact Microsoft is ony company caring for low nd mid end smartphones.they provide to.wp 8.1 to even low end smartphones.but in case of android it is always a miss.android sucks especially in low nd mid end they never see updates.people should realise this low nd mid end are treated as thrash by android oem.for getting a new android os people have to buy a new device.android oems are looting money.galaxy grand will not get kitkat.people spent 20000 rs on getting one now they have to spent another 20000 on upgraded grand.instead they could have brought an flagship phone nd change thier phone's after 2 years .

    Sent from my C2305 using WPCentral Forums mobile app
    05-09-2014 12:45 AM
  17. prasath1234's Avatar
    Nonsense? Is it an exclusive-or situation? Only ONE company can fall short? What does the fact that Google drops support for old phones have anything to do with Microsoft's track record in the mobile space? Google gives Android away for free to phone manufacturers. Google sweetened the pot for them. Microsoft historically dictated terms of usage of Windows Mobile -> Windows Phone and only started giving WP8 away a month or so ago.

    There was a time, before some here were old enough to read, when Apple was teetering on the verge of insolvency and Microsoft was on the top of the heap of mobile handheld computing and smartphones. What happened? Arrogance at being on top.

    There is a far cry from Google's ceasing to support a particular level of Android (Android apps still work on newer version of the OS) and Microsoft's cold dropping app support across OS versions. (ie. Apps developed for WM 6.5 would not run on WP7).
    To an extent 80% apps work on android old 2.3 devices but not trend apps nd games.in order to have these apps nd games people buy new devices every year sometimes every 6 months.in a way cost of ownership of android is even more than apple or high end wps people dont understand this.

    Sent from my C2305 using WPCentral Forums mobile app
    05-09-2014 12:50 AM
  18. prasath1234's Avatar
    People don't like change, but using smartphones and tablets were a change from what they had been using before. People don't like different, but smartphones and tablets are different than what they were used to.
    So what DO people want? They have no idea and neither do I. People are a confusing mess of contradictions and illogic, thus Windows Phone's marketshare ...
    People want latest nd greatest apps.so if they are not there people shun away thats the reason wp has low market share.as a os it is best.

    Sent from my C2305 using WPCentral Forums mobile app
    05-09-2014 12:53 AM
  19. prasath1234's Avatar
    iOS and Android happened. The development of these OSs started in 2003. I guess Microsoft started the development of Windows Phone 7 the next day after the iPhone was presented by Jobs in 2007. So, 4 years is too late even for Microsoft.
    Maybe they could have waited a year more to use in WP7 the same core they were developing for Windows 8, giving you the backward compatibility you demand, but WP would be dead like BlackBerry 10.
    That wont happen infact i can bet wp will steal feature phone market share nd low end android share that will happen in emerging countries maybe in America it may loose market share not in emerging countries.people now believe they want a smartphone thats should run smooth nd wp 8.1 fits the bill.:thumbup::p

    Sent from my C2305 using WPCentral Forums mobile app
    05-09-2014 12:58 AM
  20. BobLobIaw's Avatar
    OP's analysis of the reasons for a huge uphill battle are mostly right. It's a good commentary on the human condition. The way to make it a downhill battle is for MS to focus on developing an outstanding product. It may take a while for it to catch on but it will eventually if it's high quality.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    05-09-2014 12:59 AM
  21. RavenSword's Avatar
    Saving up to buy a Lumia Icon or ATIV SE off contract. So I'll probably get it by the fall.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    what finally pushed you over the edge if you dont mind me asking?
    05-09-2014 01:04 AM
  22. hagjohn's Avatar
    Plain and simple, Microsoft needs better advertising. They need to tell people why their products are better than anyone elses and they need to do it in a clear and simple manner. They also need to make sure there are apps available. And for the most popular apps, they should offer to send someone (for free) to them to help (train) them develop an app. They have to do what they can to get these apps in the store. It may be a short term loss but long term, it will benefit them.
    JamesPTao likes this.
    05-09-2014 04:48 AM
  23. rex.reyesiii's Avatar
    05-09-2014 05:34 AM
  24. A895's Avatar
    what finally pushed you over the edge if you dont mind me asking?
    The user experience the tiles are very modern and fit into my ecosystem (I use primarily Microsoft services). I am by no means abandoning Android, I'll still keep my Droid RAZR M for a backup, but for my daily driver I'll use Windows phone, if it does not work out I can always sell it or return it. My biggest concern is no Google services but I think I'll be alright.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    05-09-2014 06:27 AM
  25. EC Translating Services's Avatar
    I can add up to your story from my experience in Taiwan. The WP adoption over here is low for a variety of reasons of course. However, one of the reasons is that "It's too different, too complicated, the don't understand it". Now, i have been ranting about WP and its shortcomings since the day got mine and the impression is not enthusiastic to date. But if there is a thing i can't disagree more is that WP is "Difficult". The learning curve to use the OS is near 0. It's mostly automated and except for the way menu items are categorized, the rest is a breeze. You have a point there, some people just reject the idea of plainly changing, even if that change is for the better.
    05-09-2014 10:25 AM
158 12345 ...

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