Anti-Windows Phone Sentiment Strong Among Tech Journalists

[colinkiama]

its very easy actually, irs not that the world doesn't like wp, its the US. they should focus in places where the money is in europe and india. in places like italy, wp has a higher market share than ios and in india, wp is the second most popular os. microsoft should go where the money is because no matter what they do, wp will never do well in the US.

 

[Sir William Wiener]

I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing. :straight: I was just saying that I see plenty of ads for Microsoft products, including WP. I'm not saying they're the best ads around, but they're there.

I'm by no means a delusional Microsoft apologist. For the record, it's my opinion of some of the users on this forum. I'm very critical of WP. I think it falls short in many areas compared to its direct competitors.

I apologize I didn't mean that to sound as rude as it did, I agree with the argument that there's windows phone ads to speak of but the problem with them (as I addressed in the OP) is that they're anemic, and forgettable. They don't stick with you like the Apple "Go Chicken Fat Go" ad. Microsoft needs those types of ads that stick with you and to some degree gets stuck in your head.

 

[Sir William Wiener]

its very easy actually, irs not that the world doesn't like wp, its the US. they should focus in places where the money is in europe and india. in places like italy, wp has a higher market share than ios and in india, wp is the second most popular os. microsoft should go where the money is because no matter what they do, wp will never do well in the US.

No! You don't and can't abandon the top 3 consumer markets if you want to be successful long term. The US, China and Germany markets are paramount in modern international big business. Consider the size of the US and China in terms of population that's way too much money for Microsoft to turn their backs to.

 

[prasath1234]

I don't feel that advertising is the primary problem. I see a lot of ads for Windows Phone and other Microsoft products. Anyone know the average age of these tech journalists? They publish articles based on statistics but do not offer any analysis on why the figures may be lower. The problem with most of these people is they see Microsoft as the company who dominated the PC market in the 1990s and held back innovation. Windows became so common that you rarely found anyone running any other OS and as a result and because the OS was fairly open and flexible as far as apps are concerned, it was often targeted by immature youngsters with viruses and other malware. They see Google as the new company that was finally able to defeat Microsoft and, as such, have loyalty towards them instead of Microsoft. Google's actions to shut out Windows Phone by not supporting them despite a major loss of advertising revenue also contribute to Microsoft's inability to gain market share as consumers are forced to pick sides and many rely on tech people or sales people who are supposed to be knowledgeable. These people will cite the app gap and usage statistics in order to convince less knowledgeable people that Windows Phone is inferior despite the OS being technologically superior in many ways. These less knowledgeable people typically have no need for most, if any, of these missing apps and just suffer from all kinds of problems with their Android phones like slowness, crashes, and glitches, because they have no idea how to fix them.
I feel that Apple is a completely different story. People who typically prefer Apple products do so because it is a status symbol. However, there are enough people who are not like that and if it weren't were Google, Microsoft would be fine.

Exactly if it not for android people will get only Windows phone atleast in India.

Sent from my C2305 using WPCentral Forums mobile app

 

[Torcher Death]

No! You don't and can't abandon the top 3 consumer markets if you want to be successful long term. The US, China and Germany markets are paramount in modern international big business. Consider the size of the US and China in terms of population that's way too much money for Microsoft to turn their backs to.

US - well a hipster country following the herd mentality... not all, but most
China - make cheaper replicas
Germany - Don't know much about the market there, so no comments

 

[Sonu K]

True! Educating customers about Windows Phone ecosystem is largely the part where they are lacking, every OS has it's high and low end selling points, they just need to spread the news. When it comes to marketing, I know that they are bad since the only popular ad for Windows Phone was this: Don't Fight - Microsoft New Commercial Mocks Apple And Samsung
This was a clever way to present themselves, clearly distinguishing Windows Phone from others.

Consider the image which Google presents when it comes to a user. Everyone thinks of Google as the most innovative company, blindly following the services they provide, just because they think "they are innovative". When Sergey or Larry gives a speech, or when they participate in a public discussion, it adds to value of personal touch they offer. A personal touch or a heroic innovation (Apple, Steve Jobs) lasts longer than words "Modern apps", because simply speaking words are cheap. Now that they are really doing some great work with their OS and Mobile targeting, including support to developers for advertising, they should promote their services with more personal touch. Meanwhile, Satya Nadella can't present the same image as these people do( should do!).

Err...This was a pure NOKIA ad..Most probably they recently replaced the NOKIA logo with the MS logo at the end.

 

[Torcher Death]

MS reallly needs to work on fixing the current bugs & make speedier releases, & seriously start hiring better marketing managers.
We know you have a lot of throw away cash, spend it wisely on advertising in the developing markets rather than relying on the carriers & OEMs too much.
Why not try a little bit of reverse psychology, when the rest of the world starts adapting to WP, am sure US would be quite compelled to as well. But, thats only if you can manage get your act together & start releasing some really cool flagship phones before you lose your potential customers to the new hippy iPhone 6 or an S6.

 

[Sir William Wiener]

US - well a hipster country following the herd mentality... not all, but most
China - make cheaper replicas
Germany - Don't know much about the market there, so no comments

The US is all about what's stylish and/or cool. The exclusivity of Windows Phone and differentiation from Android and iOS can be something Microsoft pushes when advertising WP. They need to make WP that trendy new phone, I made a suggestion on another forum that Microsoft should hire Seattle Seahawks CB Richard Sherman whom has a Masters in Mass Communications from Stanford. Like him or not he's the type of celebrity spokesperson MS needs and the type of spokesperson that would get the attention of practically every male 18-40 in the US. I've always thought Microsoft should make a commercial with Sherman yelling something at Cortana with Cortana replying with witty and humorous comebacks. Something that displays the technology of Cortana and at the same time is memorable because of the humor and famous spokesperson. These no name actors they're hiring for the WP commercials just don't cut it. Samsung proved this celebrity spokesperson strategy with LeBron James, the Galaxy owes much of its popularity in the US to promotional efforts involving the NBA.

I was saddened to see Microsoft blew an amazing WP marketing platform in the 2014 World Cup by not showing a single WP ad, they had a massive international platform to push WP on and all they ran were generic non product specific Microsoft plugs.

 

[Sir William Wiener]

MS reallly needs to work on fixing the current bugs & make speedier releases, & seriously start hiring better marketing managers.
We know you have a lot of throw away cash, spend it wisely on advertising in the developing markets rather than relying on the carriers & OEMs too much.
Why not try a little bit of reverse psychology, when the rest of the world starts adapting to WP, am sure US would be quite compelled to as well. But, thats only if you can manage get your act together & start releasing some really cool flagship phones before you lose your potential customers to the new hippy iPhone 6 or an S6.

I'm not at all worried about the technical aspects of the company, the software engineering at Microsoft has always been world class. The only problem they've ever had has always been marketing competence and decent PR. Many tech reviews have called the Nokia 1520 the "best smartphone on the market right now" yet how many average mainstream consumers in the US do you think have any idea what a Nokia Lumia 1520 is? Trust me it's not much, every time someone sees the start screen on my Icon they ask if it's some type of special Android phone. I'd love for Microsoft's marketing division to be present when questions like that are asked about Microsoft products.

 

[mmcpher]

My 1520 is my first WP, but my Z30 is my. . . . I can't keep track of how many Blackberries I've had and loved going back to my first smartphones, so I bring that perspective to the thread. Blackberry was a novelty to the tech press, then a phenomenon, then an institution, then a slowing behemoth, then in a dead stall and now. . . . a kind of curious oddity by virtue of its insistence in soldiering on. The Tech Press, IMHO, has long been inbedded (sp.) with IOS and/or Android, that's where the most eyeballs are, the most clicks. Blackberry was the **** of jokes and dancing on its grave (even at launch events) was a means of currying favor and for the Tech press to demonstrate loyalty to the market leaders.

Anti-Windows bias, in contrast to the mildly malignant indifference to Blackberry, goes way, way back to the early ages of mass personal computing. Not an easy history to negate, however shiny or clever your ad campaign is. I don't think WP ads are bad, its just that in the US at least, they are all but invisible. I take some heart that MS is having some penetration with their Surface ads, so they are capable of attracting attention when motivated and funded. MS has resources that Blackberry does not, to counteract negative coverage and to withstand slow sales. I am not altogether sold on the value of ad campaigns for smartphones anyway. Sure, they help around the edges, but it seems a strange market, self-informed and largely driven through carrier-connections in carrier stores. Apple and Android still have the run of almost every smartphone retail outlet in the US. The carrier stores are always pushing either a certain Android or the Iphone and are all-but-hiding the other alternatives. I think the Lumia line has laid the groundwork and the 8.1 OS and beyond are more than competitive whereby MS can now bring some of its economic might to start making inroads. I am also hopeful that the new Blackberry models coming out by the end of the year will also open a few eyes.

Android may be a juggernaut and Apple, well whenever they get around to releasing the My Big Fat Iphone the trained tech press will sit up and bray like donkeys and that will use up most of the oxygen. Truth for me is that Apple has been as dull as dishwater for a long time now but some see that as a by-product of their having already attained perfection. Google and Apple represent huge, tectonic elemental economic forces and can not be lightly or quickly moved from their predominating positions. But their tremendous accumulated inertia does not render them impossibly impervious. It is an enormous undertaking and challenge and beyond shiny tv spots and jingles. Microsoft has always played a masterful long game.

 

[Great deal]

Gave TV away and get no ads via email or online anymore so cant say I've seen them. Right now MS doesn't have much to shout about, they have no devices that compare to the competition (the 930 is just a smaller 1520 with year old internals) Win 8.1 is not properly rolled out yet and for them to shout about it now and in say 3 weeks a major flaw is discovered then that's that in the media's eyes.

MS will definitely do something 'all out' on the mobile front im sure, as soon as their recent purchase of Nokia and staff, systems and processes have been aligned and teams work together closer than ever to bring amazing tech. Their 'special announcement' may well be the spring board they need. Right now they are keeping their heads down and plugging away. Maybe we will see a Surface Phone?

 

[Sir William Wiener]

Gave TV away and get no ads via email or online anymore so cant say I've seen them. Right now MS doesn't have much to shout about, they have no devices that compare to the competition (the 930 is just a smaller 1520 with year old internals) Win 8.1 is not properly rolled out yet and for them to shout about it now and in say 3 weeks a major flaw is discovered then that's that in the media's eyes.

MS will definitely do something 'all out' on the mobile front im sure, as soon as their recent purchase of Nokia and staff, systems and processes have been aligned and teams work together closer than ever to bring amazing tech. Their 'special announcement' may well be the spring board they need. Right now they are keeping their heads down and plugging away. Maybe we will see a Surface Phone?

Time is not on their side, as they wait and lollygag about what they should be doing with Windows Phone, Apple and Samsung are putting millions of new phones into the pockets of the consumers. The Icon/930 & 1520 are on par with the technical specs of both the iPhone 5S and Samsung Galaxy S5 as of right now. In many reviews the Icon/930 & 1520 are beating the iPhone 5S and Galaxy S5, so by no means is their hardware too antiquated to be pushing right now.

As I said in the OP, if their marketing efforts don't increase after the Cyan rollout I am going to begin having more serious doubts about Windows Phone's future especially for the US, the market data does not look good. After Cyan is out they need to push the Icon/930 & 1520 hard until the McLaren and the other 8.1 models are ready to come out. You don't see Apple abandoning their 5S and 5C marketing just because the iPhone 6 is on the way.

 

[afgzee]

It's almost enraging at how bad Microsoft's advertising and public relations is these days. It doesn't matter how good the product is if consumers don't know about, I stumbled upon Windows Phone thanks to Nokia's efforts not Microsoft's.

same here, was thanks to Nokia also.

 

[Sir William Wiener]

My 1520 is my first WP, but my Z30 is my. . . . I can't keep track of how many Blackberries I've had and loved going back to my first smartphones, so I bring that perspective to the thread. Blackberry was a novelty to the tech press, then a phenomenon, then an institution, then a slowing behemoth, then in a dead stall and now. . . . a kind of curious oddity by virtue of its insistence in soldiering on. The Tech Press, IMHO, has long been inbedded (sp.) with IOS and/or Android, that's where the most eyeballs are, the most clicks. Blackberry was the **** of jokes and dancing on its grave (even at launch events) was a means of currying favor and for the Tech press to demonstrate loyalty to the market leaders.

Anti-Windows bias, in contrast to the mildly malignant indifference to Blackberry, goes way, way back to the early ages of mass personal computing. Not an easy history to negate, however shiny or clever your ad campaign is. I don't think WP ads are bad, its just that in the US at least, they are all but invisible. I take some heart that MS is having some penetration with their Surface ads, so they are capable of attracting attention when motivated and funded. MS has resources that Blackberry does not, to counteract negative coverage and to withstand slow sales. I am not altogether sold on the value of ad campaigns for smartphones anyway. Sure, they help around the edges, but it seems a strange market, self-informed and largely driven through carrier-connections in carrier stores. Apple and Android still have the run of almost every smartphone retail outlet in the US. The carrier stores are always pushing either a certain Android or the Iphone and are all-but-hiding the other alternatives. I think the Lumia line has laid the groundwork and the 8.1 OS and beyond are more than competitive whereby MS can now bring some of its economic might to start making inroads. I am also hopeful that the new Blackberry models coming out by the end of the year will also open a few eyes.

Android may be a juggernaut and Apple, well whenever they get around to releasing the My Big Fat Iphone the trained tech press will sit up and bray like donkeys and that will use up most of the oxygen. Truth for me is that Apple has been as dull as dishwater for a long time now but some see that as a by-product of their having already attained perfection. Google and Apple represent huge, tectonic elemental economic forces and can not be lightly or quickly moved from their predominating positions. But their tremendous accumulated inertia does not render them impossibly impervious. It is an enormous undertaking and challenge and beyond shiny tv spots and jingles. Microsoft has always played a masterful long game.

They have only played a "masterful long game" back in the days of desktop PC's in this mobile tech era they're stumbling more than anyone is willing to admit. Look at their Zune travesty, it was a great piece hardware and in some ways better than the iPod, but the marketing woes of Microsoft combined with their Lolly gagging made it incredibly easy for Apple and its brilliant advertising to crush any hopes of the Zune ever being a credible iPod competitor. The same would've happened to the original Xbox had it not been for the excellent games pumping out of Microsoft Games Studio. Microsoft has always made damn good hardware when they venture into hardware but their marketing is just a joke.

 

[Sir William Wiener]

same here, was thanks to Nokia also.

Makes you wonder if Microsoft was smart enough to include Nokia's marketing division in the purchase of Nokia's handset division.

 

[MDMcAtee]

True there's absolutely an anti-Microsoft attitude out there mostly it's among the tech savvy crowd with 90% of them being too young to really have first hand experience with the true evil empire days of Microsoft in the 70's 80's and 90's, being a Microsoft hater is just a trendy in vogue thing in the tech world. Having said all that however the mainstream consumer has far less brand loyalty toward any specific product or platform. Microsoft stole millions of video gamers away from Sony and Nintendo back when they were the two console titans, if they can survive and overcome that duopoly's barrier of entry than they can with WP too. But only if their advertising gets dramatically better.

The did get some market share from Sony....but it didn't last long at all. Microsoft backed analog and had their hat handed to them and shown the door with HDMI and bluray and refused to budge until Xbox sales were in the toilet more so than now.

The Playstation is still the best budget bluray player on the market just as it was when it came out. The UI is still clean and easy to use too,compared to the Xbox.

Say what you will,but Microsoft has always done things bassackwards and has been their own worst enemy. How many people who have the kinetic are left in a lurch now?

A mobile phone to the masses isn't a extension of a expensive game console, though being able to utilize a fully separate app or a fully integrated hub for those who have one is always better than forcing all to use it. Hopefully,now with today's news,we will see everything that was wrong with this change and allow Microsoft a chance to really develops Xbox to the max,because it does have great potential. Their last update still hasn't fixed it,and they need better people working on it.

As to you not being sold on add campaigns for a smart phone,you're need to reexamine this. Add campaigns when properly executed like Apple and Google and Samsung account for billions in sales........ask them if you don't believe that they work....and until Microsoft utilizes those firms to fight fire with fire they will never gain any ground but continue to have flat growth or losses.

 

[snowmutt]

I think this was more Nokia than it was Microsoft but regardless I agree this is the best WP ad to date, the only problem is it's kinda long for normal TV ad spots and as a result wasn't run as much,

No, it wasn't. This and it's brother L1020 commercial (at the recital and everyone else was trying to get closer except for the couple at the back with the L1020) were produced by Microsoft. So were all the commercials with the splitscreens pushing the L928, Icon, L1020, and several other WP's as well as their convertable tablet lines which had someone describing what they liked about the device while on the other side of the screen there is a device showing the features. These are all effective, well played adds that have made a difference in getting the WP8 devices as well as the Windows 8 devices into the consumers "mind share". In other words, MS has done a decent job of getting people to see what these phones can do, and getting them to recognize them when they walk into a store and see them displayed.

I think people are still holding MS's inactivity of WP7 against them. I see advertising everywhere for WP 8. True, it has slowed down since the CEO switch and while the Nokia purchase was still pending, but since the release of WP 8 MS has worked hard to get consumers to see the devices as a good option.

I expect this push to continue. MS has seen the overall sales of WP from below 1% in 2011 to almost 5% in 2014. Yes, that is in large part due to Nokia as well as Microsofts efforts. But, in case everyone missed it, that sales and PR team of Nokia is a part of MS now as well. I am excited for the future of WP.

 

[snowmutt]

Err...This was a pure NOKIA ad..Most probably they recently replaced the NOKIA logo with the MS logo at the end.

It was produced BY Microsoft FOR the Nokia phones. Period.

http://windowsitpro.com/hardware/microsofts-dont-fight-switch-campaign-windows-phone
http://www.nokiawp.com/2013/08/microsoft-is-back-with-new-dont-fight.html

http://windowsitpro.com/windows-phone/dont-fight-your-phone-switch-lumia-1020

Nokia did way more PR for their devices overseas.

 

[snowmutt]

Makes you wonder if Microsoft was smart enough to include Nokia's marketing division in the purchase of Nokia's handset division.

If my memory serves, always a shaky propersition, the PR portion of the Nokia division that specialized in Nokia handset promotion that worked directly under Elop's top advisors came over in the deal.

Nokia kept a portion of the PR group that pushed the Nokia Mix radio and some of the top PR execs from their HQ.

Please don't beat me if I am wrong, but I know it was similar to that, if not exactly that.

 

[herbertsnow]

Most "Tech Journalists" are just hipsters that have never used anything but the Apple products.