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Nerdy Woman

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Two days ago, I ordered a Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra (I don't need an Ultra, but I have an aversion to rounded corners). Its my 4th Android device. And I still hate the OS and miss Windows Phone.

I remember being able to indicate certain contacts have priority so their texts, emails, and calls always bubbled up. I remember being able to put a lot more icons on my home screen (I LOVED live tiles) and seldom had to go to the app list. I remember the perfect feel of the curved grippable cases of my WPs (925, 928, 930) and the beautiful colors. I never bought cases for them and we got along fine.

So Nadella says killing it was a misstep? Any chance they'll learn from that? NO. They have a bad habit of pandering to shareholders and killing any product that isn't paying its own way. They also can't seem to decide whether or not they are a hardware manufacturer. They shuttered all their brick-and-mortar stores, and good luck finding product in stock on their website. It seems production runs are limited to proof-of-concept quantities. Sadly, few other manufacturers take up the challenge to build hardware I like half as much.
 

bazanime

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I loved Windows phone and jumped on the first handset released till the last.
I moved on naturally to Android, even though it's less elegant it grew on me and is very versatile.

I rather not live in the past, instead appreciate the present and look forward to the future.
So much good advancements have happened since and Windows phone still lives on in the app integration in android and Windows.
 

Cmndr_Bytes

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I truly miss my windows phone and the features that i still find lacking on iPhone and Android.
I found live tiles innovative and very useful.
And Cortana...dear sweet lovable Cortana. What they did to you was a crime. What they could be doing with you now incorporated with AI would have been magical.
 

Jez Corden

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Two days ago, I ordered a Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra (I don't need an Ultra, but I have an aversion to rounded corners). Its my 4th Android device. And I still hate the OS and miss Windows Phone.

I remember being able to indicate certain contacts have priority so their texts, emails, and calls always bubbled up. I remember being able to put a lot more icons on my home screen (I LOVED live tiles) and seldom had to go to the app list. I remember the perfect feel of the curved grippable cases of my WPs (925, 928, 930) and the beautiful colors. I never bought cases for them and we got along fine.

So Nadella says killing it was a misstep? Any chance they'll learn from that? NO. They have a bad habit of pandering to shareholders and killing any product that isn't paying its own way. They also can't seem to decide whether or not they are a hardware manufacturer. They shuttered all their brick-and-mortar stores, and good luck finding product in stock on their website. It seems production runs are limited to proof-of-concept quantities. Sadly, few other manufacturers take up the challenge to build hardware I like half as much.
sad truth yeah. i think satya is realizing now that the fact they cant control default apps on mobile is killing bing, edge, and probably their AI platforms in mobile. computing is moving increasingly to mobile devices and itll hurt windows more and more down the line. windows phone absolutely should've stuck around, even if it was just a small platform. losing that anchor is going to bite them in the ass more and more in the future imo.
 

Laura Knotek

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sad truth yeah. i think satya is realizing now that the fact they cant control default apps on mobile is killing bing, edge, and probably their AI platforms in mobile. computing is moving increasingly to mobile devices and itll hurt windows more and more down the line. windows phone absolutely should've stuck around, even if it was just a small platform. losing that anchor is going to bite them in the ass more and more in the future imo.
Controlling default apps on desktops is what led to the antitrust lawsuit. I never liked IE and only use Edge and Bing to get rewards towards Amazon gift cards. I use Chrome or Brave on desktop. For mobile, I use the Samsung browser and Brave. If Microsoft Rewards ever goes away, I'll have no use at all for Edge and Bing.
 

TechFreak1

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It was a [dumb] and a very costly mistake too... damn short sighted bean counters... throwing away millions and potentially billions of profit - as after all with the Universal Windows App Platform and Continuum.

The Opportunity that Microsoft lost is this:

Millions of people and a hell of alot of buisnesses would have bought a phone that allows them work remotely as all they would have needed was a phone and a continuum dock. No need to fuss around with a PC, wait for their work place to shift a PC to them etc.

Also with UWA and Continuum they could have tapped into Xcloud gaming and now millions of peoples would have subscribed to Xbox Game Pass.

With Cortana integration, they could have handled transcribing meetings, dictated emails, calendar planning, conference organising. With Rooms, they could have had something that rivals whatsapp etc as that would have had integration with both Skype and GroupMe. So, the friends and family who didn't have a Windows Mobile, they could use either of those two services.

Then the word about ease of use would have gotten around leading to more sales.

All of the above would have naturally drawn in a tonne of developers.

Now people can use one.single.device for work, gaming and personal during the lock downs.

Millions and Billions of profit... wasted on short sightedness.

In terms of the casual users and the living room - Microsoft could have beat Nintendo to the punch with before the Switch was released and literally dominated the living room and mobile gaming.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All is not lost:

Microsoft can still have a massive slice of the pie using Windows on ARM and Continuum. Sure, it will take more leg work now but it's a hell of alot better than foregoing profit opportunities and being beholden to their competitors whims.


They better release the Surface Duo with Windows On ARM otherwise they are foregoing the entire mobile gaming space to Sony.

Fortunately, Sony's plans are still a few years out with their "PC Vita 2" to be released alongside Playstation 6.

I imagine Valve will be working on a Switch like console as they'd be a fool not to do so.

So, yeah sure Microsoft was short sighted in axing their mobile division but that doesn't mean they have to wallow their misery for all eternity.

They still have the opportunity to make a major come back as they now have Xcloud game streaming.

Windows on ARM on the Surface Duo should really tap into the Xbox integration and with Continuum, you could dock the Surface Duo and start gaming on the Big screen.

Not to mention, they can also leverage all out of Microsoft 365 services and integration too. That will be massive for organisations and for Microsoft's profits too as they can have different service tiers for mobile devices.

The app front can be easily solved with repackaging WoA apps with mobile friendly UX elements which they already have from the Universal Windows Apps platform. They also have the UX code from Windows Mobile and Windows Phone. So they aren't starting from scratch again.

Then Microsoft is no longer at the whims of their competitors and regulators and consumers will finally have a viable third ecosystem. Which will finally bring some much needed competition. Win-Win all around
 
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GraniteStateColin

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sad truth yeah. i think satya is realizing now that the fact they cant control default apps on mobile is killing bing, edge, and probably their AI platforms in mobile. computing is moving increasingly to mobile devices and itll hurt windows more and more down the line. windows phone absolutely should've stuck around, even if it was just a small platform. losing that anchor is going to bite them in the ass more and more in the future imo.
Sadly, this was the very point that many of us made to Microsoft at the time: even if Windows Phone is not making money today, keep it as a platform for the future. Once you shudder a project and give up those customers, getting any back is much more expensive. The internal skills and support infrastructure will also atrophy or disappear altogether. Further, the most loyal customers who stuck with Windows Phone, many of those were MS' core evangelists for anything new. MS alienated many of them. It would be like sponsoring an event for fans, then cancelling it at the last minute, after everyone booked their travel. It's just injecting poison into your core market: stupid.

I completely understand the financial analysis that led to closing down Windows Phone -- on any pure near-term profit modeling, that was clearly a rational decision. However, what they completely missed (and had no excuse to miss, because this is basic marketing strategy) is synergistic effect between those costs and other business lines and the long-term messaging to customers. Exactly as you have written here, Jez, Cortana, AI, Bing, future wearables, Xbox gaming, even full control over the mobile Office experience (one of MS' crown jewels) and mobile integration with Windows on PCs all benefited from the existence of Windows Phone. When MS dropped Windows Phone, that hit all of those in various ways.

Lastly, instead of teaching the market that MS sticks with its products, iterating on them until they are successful (a branding image they had from back in the Bill Gates days), which encourages users to try new things from MS, knowing MS will back them and any early problems will be solved. MS taught the market that it should never try anything new from MS. Always wait a year or two to see if it caught on, then you'd know if MS will back it. That's a self-destroying approach, because without initial users, there are never any users.
 
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taynjack

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Sadly, this was the very point that many of us made to Microsoft at the time: even if Windows Phone is not making money today, keep it as a platform for the future. Once you shudder a project and give up those customers, getting any back is much more expensive. The internal skills and support infrastructure will also atrophy or disappear altogether. Further, the most loyal customers who stuck with Windows Phone, many of those were MS' core evangelists for anything new. MS alienated many of them. It would be like sponsoring an event for fans, then cancelling it at the last minute, after everyone booked their travel. It's just injecting poison into your core market: stupid.

I completely understand the financial analysis that led to closing down Windows Phone -- on any pure near-term profit modeling, that was clearly a rational decision. However, what they completely missed (and had no excuse to miss, because this is basic marketing strategy) is synergistic effect between those costs and other business lines and the long-term messaging to customers. Exactly as you have written here, Jez, Cortana, AI, Bing, future wearables, Xbox gaming, even full control over the mobile Office experience (one of MS' crown jewels) and mobile integration with Windows on PCs all benefited from the existence of Windows Phone. When MS dropped Windows Phone, that hit all of those in various ways.

Lastly, instead of teaching the market that MS sticks with its products, iterating on them until they are successful (a branding image they had from back in the Bill Gates days), which encourages users to try new things from MS, knowing MS will back them and any early problems will be solved. MS taught the market that it should never try anything new from MS. Always wait a year or two to see if it caught on, then you'd know if MS will back it. That's a self-destroying approach, because without initial users, there are never any users.
In so many entrepreneurial circles there's the phrase, "Success is always right around the corner from where you think it's time to quit." This was Windows Phone. When Windows mobile 10 was released, I had both of my parents, my brother, and several co-workers ready to jump to Windows phone as soon as their contracts ran out. Then Microsoft ran out. One co-worker jumped on just in time to sink with the ship.

Microsoft still hasn't learned to support their own efforts. Surface Duo is another Microsoft certified train wreck. Had Windows Phone continued strong until it met Surface Duo it would have been a wild success. Due to the failures of windows phone, Invoke, Band, and many others, me and my previous Microsoft evangelists were waiting for version 3. In true Microsoft fashion, version 3 of Duo is rife with rumor and speculation that it isn't coming, which adds to the fear that if it ever does come that it won't be supported long. I won't even buy version 3 now. There's too much doubt emanating from Microsoft itself about its own products.

The only way I could see that a windows phone could ever re-materialize is if Satya steps aside and the new replacement talks non-stop about it and follows it up with massive money and massive action. A John Legere type personality that could restore the faith of the thrice burned evangelists. I believe it would still take a decade and probably double or even triple the 26 billion they wrote down. They could start with Surface Duo. Meet people where they are by making it an android with Microsoft elements in the interface. Then tweak the interface to be ever more Windows-esque. Then develop a Windows first device that uses that same interface. Apps will remain the biggest hurdle to a windows first product. They would need a CEO that could properly woo, wine and dine the developers to get them to finally give Windows a chance. They likely would have to make a linux based Windows to ease porting apps from other platforms. It's a nearly insurmountable mountain to climb for the shareholders that only care about today, but that's what it would take to plug the massive hole in the massive ship that is Microsoft. I don't have any faith that this will ever happen.

Microsoft was exciting and innovative back then. Now, they're just plain boring and forgettable. Even chatGPT is meh to many people. Bard will likely overtake chatGPT with one hand tied behind it's back.
 
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GraniteStateColin

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In so many entrepreneurial circles there's the phrase, "Success is always right around the corner from where you think it's time to quit." This was Windows Phone. When Windows mobile 10 was released, I had both of my parents, my brother, and several co-workers ready to jump to Windows phone as soon as their contracts ran out. Then Microsoft ran out. One co-worker jumped on just in time to sink with the ship.

Microsoft still hasn't learned to support their own efforts. Surface Duo is another Microsoft certified train wreck. Had Windows Phone continued strong until it met Surface Duo it would have been a wild success. Due to the failures of windows phone, Invoke, Band, and many others, me and my previous Microsoft evangelists were waiting for version 3. In true Microsoft fashion, version 3 of Duo is rife with rumor and speculation that it isn't coming, which adds to the fear that if it ever does come that it won't be supported long. I won't even buy version 3 now. There's too much doubt emanating from Microsoft itself about its own products.

The only way I could see that a windows phone could ever re-materialize is if Satya steps aside and the new replacement talks non-stop about it and follows it up with massive money and massive action. A John Legere type personality that could restore the faith of the thrice burned evangelists. I believe it would still take a decade and probably double or even triple the 26 billion they wrote down. They could start with Surface Duo. Meet people where they are by making it an android with Microsoft elements in the interface. Then tweak the interface to be ever more Windows-esque. Then develop a Windows first device that uses that same interface. Apps will remain the biggest hurdle to a windows first product. They would need a CEO that could properly woo, wine and dine the developers to get them to finally give Windows a chance. They likely would have to make a linux based Windows to ease porting apps from other platforms. It's a nearly insurmountable mountain to climb for the shareholders that only care about today, but that's what it would take to plug the massive hole in the massive ship that is Microsoft. I don't have any faith that this will ever happen.

Microsoft was exciting and innovative back then. Now, they're just plain boring and forgettable. Even chatGPT is meh to many people. Bard will likely overtake chatGPT with one hand tied behind it's back.

Yup. You're a perfect example of this. I'm probably unusual in that I still grabbed the Surface Duo version 1 at launch and upgraded to the Duo 2 at launch. I think your reaction is much more typical, and frankly more logical: MS has proven that they will run away from new hardware areas that are not an instant success. That tells customers that it's risky to trust MS.

MS somehow completely failed to consider this effect. Smart accounting would have ascribed a cost to this consequence (e.g., there are line items on a brand balance sheet for "goodwill"). I've never seen anyone calculate the cost of lost institutional knowledge or a standardized way of handling marketing synergies, but as the executive in charge, you just ask for the shared marketing and the cost to replace expertise if needing to build it up from scratch.

I don't think that MS ever generated those reports. Maybe I'm wrong, I certainly don't know for sure, but from my friends at MS, I've heard nothing about this, they look at me funny when I ask if such reports were ever created, like that's not the way MS operates. Nadella's recent admissions seem to support that they did not perform this analysis. I believe if that calculus had been done correctly, they never would have shut down Windows Phone in the way they did. Not just bad strategy, but bad in a way that's hard to understand how a company of MS' size can get so obviously wrong.

To end on a more positive note, they also got a lot of other things right in the realms of cloud services and AI. I do think Nadella deserves credit many of those bets and wins.
 
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naddy69

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"It was a [dumb] and a very costly mistake too... damn short sighted bean counters... throwing away millions and potentially billions of profit - as after all with the Universal Windows App Platform and Continuum."

The fact is, Windows Phones lost 10 billion dollars.

Ten Billion Dollars.

That's why they were killed. It would have been totally irresponsible for the CEO to NOT kill them. The Board would have fired him and replaced Nadella with someone who WOULD kill it.

Meanwhile, MS is now The Most Valuable Company In The World. Why? Because they have no products that are losing TEN BILLION DOLLARS.

You can thank Satya Nadella for that.
 
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TechFreak1

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"It was a [dumb] and a very costly mistake too... damn short sighted bean counters... throwing away millions and potentially billions of profit - as after all with the Universal Windows App Platform and Continuum."

The fact is, Windows Phones lost 10 billion dollars.

Ten Billion Dollars.

That's why they were killed. It would have been totally irresponsible for the CEO to NOT kill them. The Board would have fired him and replaced Nadella with someone who WOULD kill it.

Meanwhile, MS is now The Most Valuable Company In The World. Why? Because they have no products that are losing TEN BILLION DOLLARS.

You can thank Satya Nadella for that.

Sigh... you know what was a loss leader?

Xbox, Bing and Surface...

Bing's losses was subsidised, Xbox was Subsidised, Surface was Subsidised all these three have had substantial write downs. Where are they now huh?

They are all now profitable.

Also Azure, what you don't think that required substantial amount of investments and will still require substantial investments

Sooo, all those data centres just spouted out of the ground huh and that they don't have any operating costs?

Oh, there was also the fact there is an estimation that Azure is actually operating at somewhat of a loss as per unredacted court documents.

But yeah people tend to forget the above very conveniently when it comes a windows based mobile platform.

When it's distilled down - Shareprices are not indicative of a company's health, it's merely an indication of "confidence". That "confidence" is nurtured using product cycles, product roadmaps, projected earnings and revenue streams all wrapped up in the aspects of speculative "stock markets".

People have to ask why are some people insistent of having less competition and options in the mobile space?
 
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