Microsoft vs. Everything Ever...is getting tiring

[Zachary Boddy]

No, could the WP7 > WP8 mess been avoided, by starting to code differently from the beginning, that was my question... WPCentral has become a funny place. What ever criticism people bring out, it's considered as rant.

Considering the things above purely from perspective of running and building a business, I see huge mistakes. I don't expect everyone to get it, but seriously people should be (maybe have been) fired over them.

Yes it could've been, that was my point. Microsoft just didn't want to spend the money to do it.
Well, with Nadella taking charge, those mistakes could be ratified.

 

[Loco5150]

Also maybe you should know that I'm from Finland. We have a big WP user base... Declining and not only because Nokia sold the phones, people have been disappointed and confused with Windows Phone. Oh man I remember when Lumia920 came and people where asking "what, WPs Facebook doesn't support groups".

Just few days ago friend called me asking what's wrong with the store. I was like what? He said he broke he's 920 and got he's 900 back in use and now can't find 6tag from the store...

Average users don't understand this mess Microsoft has created... Thinking now 5 seconds, I can think of 6-9 friends who have gone back to iDevices after visiting WP... That is not good however you spin it.

 

[Loco5150]

Yes it could've been, that was my point. Microsoft just didn't want to spend the money to do it.
Well, with Nadella taking charge, those mistakes could be ratified.

Ah ok, I misinterpreted what you wrote.

 

[aikidaves]

Yes it could've been, that was my point. Microsoft just didn't want to spend the money to do it.
Well, with Nadella taking charge, those mistakes could be ratified.

The money and resources required to make the Win NT kernel run on the hardware platform designed for the Win CE kernel, plus the investment to write and support a functional update capability, were very large, the outcome was risky (performance could have been poor, and lots of phones could have been broken by failed updates), and developing this probably would have become the gating item for introducing WP 8, potentially delaying the introduction date substantially and also all subsequent improvements (8.1 etc.). The cost/benefit analysis resulted in a decision not to attempt it.

Was that a good decision? No, but unfortunately there were no good choices for Microsoft on that one.

 

[Pierre Blackwell]

Like usual, there is a lot of educated opinion. I'll go ahead and try to touch on most points mentioned. First and foremost you can't loose sight of the fact that MSFT unlike Apple and Google, have their hands submerged in providing their services for everyone regardless of platform or ecosystem before anything else. They were stepping into uncharted territory when they launched WP7 because unlike Win mobile, the iPhone and Android were already established as the trend setters in the mobile community. WP7 much like the initial iPhone wasn't looked to really be an extension of someone's computer. For that reason it was doomed as a viable alternative to the iPhone or Android despite the unique aspects of the ecosystem like hubs, and direct Facebook and Twitter integration. The most distinctive aspect which defines WP is the live tiles. MSFT shortly after WP7 realized that society was only going to become more mobile centric, not just as a means of extended communication, and leisurely activity, but they saw a real concern with a society that didn't need a desktop. They constructed a new core system that finally gave a foundation for a mobile ecosystem that not only would rival heavyweights iPhone and Android, but would provide existing WP users with an OS with the capacity to truly be an extension of your laptop, tablet, or at times desktop. That meant changing some things, but none of them compromised what WP was. Ultimately I'm content with 8.1. Live folders, transparent tiles, and of course Cortana. To satisfy the one Windows , cloud intensive vision and not get complacent with the 90s mindset, MSFT has made for the most part, the right moves. That's why most of us despite the changes from 7 to 8, have stayed, and are looking forward to WP9.

 

[Zachary Boddy]

There have been some good points here, and I'm glad this thread hasn't descended into chaos, unlike so many threads of the same general topic.
Bottom line, Microsoft has made a lot of mistakes, but people fault them because Android and iOS came first, and they had dominated the mobile market before Windows made its debut. Am I right? By the time Microsoft had emerged into a growing market of mobile devices, everyone interested in the concept had already bought an iPhone or an Android device. Microsoft released a mobile OS at the same point as a immature platform but long after Android and iOS had grown mature. Furthermore, trying to reach the same point as other platforms, Microsoft released Windows Phone 8 and made it incompatible with previous Windows devices. They lost a lot of consumers who had ventured into the murky pool of the immature platform. WP8 did a lot, but still Windows Phones hadn't reached the point of Android or iOS.
Microsoft has done the best they can in the circumstances. They started later, and made their mistakes. But they're still improving, at the rate expected of such a large company. In fact, we're lucky to get what we are, considering most of Microsoft is focused on their software.

 

[Loco5150]

I dont know have they did the best they can really? I would like to know how much resources they are using in WP platform, but with what Im seeing if this would be my operation; WOW I would kick so many people out? I came back for a reason (or actually 2), not to just bash MS for nothing.
So two things from yesterday, 100 % true and accurate:

First I was in a meeting, where I found out I need to send two .pdf?s to a contact of mine. So I said sure, Ill do it right now, so you have them. I have most of my office in the o365 cloud. So I opened the office hub went to the folder, downloaded the pdf?s, nothing crazy 2 small files? I tried to put them in to an email, but I guess its not possible to have 2 files in the same email. I ended up sending 2 emails after looking like an ***** for 5 minutes trying to do this world?s simplest thing.

Then a second thing happened later. We were on our way to another meeting when we realized we forgot to make one list that we usually do in excel. Very simple, 10 rows 5 or so columns of text. No formulas. I thought in the car that I just do it with my L1520. Download last week?s file from my o365 and do the changes and send it to a person who is based at the location and he can print it out. So I download the excel and start to modify. The whole excel experience is so horrific that even writing simple text in cell is a pain in the ***. Well I kind of knew it, but tried to do this ayway because its so simple editing. At some point I realized that I would have a lot of text that I can just copy from below and move up, that way save a lot of writing and time. Well, I couldn?t find a way of copying multiple cells of text and pasting them to a different place in the same chart?. REALLY? I would be laughing if this wasn?t sad. So my high powered 6? business phone from Microsoft cant do these simplest thing with Microsoft?s own products?? I cant believe this. Maybe I missed something on both occasions and these things are possible to do? I was super tired all day and had little pressure on both times so I don?t know, if I got something wrong please correct me!

I have never owned a iDevice (those really are my phones below, just missing 930 and 1520 which I have now) and I owned The Samsung Galaxy S for 2 months, before I got really annoyed of Google taking all my info on to their servers even though I specifically did everything to prevent it (another story really), but I have started to think that Im sure I could get a better experience from their devices. What I have read in WPC is that you get a better experience on MS products in these platforms, which sounds crazy to me.

The whole point of this is basically linked to the posts I made before. Instead of taking the music hub apart and starting from the beginning with it, they should move forward. Now at the same time Im not saying the problem is that the music hub was taken out, but why was the music hub was hard coded in the OS in the first place if its better being a separate app? Of course the same goes to FB etc etc?

Lets say I would go crazy and take the plunge and move to the new iPhone. I don?t think it would be easy to get me back anymore. That?s my point that MS making these immature mistakes and not focusing correctly can be really costly to the platform.

I have been a big router for WP from the beginning, but in the past 6 months or so I have become little sad about it. I think MS will have a very hard time with it because I feel that the ?hype? or small upbeat that it might have had has been killed now. I think MS didn?t work well enough and they will start to lose with it. It could be just me, but I guess time will tell. Im very very very happy for Nokia though. They played their cards so well, I will shake mr. Siilasmaa?s (head of board) hand if I ever bumb in to him. 7 billion for that piece of crap mobile division in that position? With Nokia keeping EVERYTHING that has any value, name, patents, R&D, NSN, HERE and whatnot is amazing. The division will not be profitable a very long time, if ever.

 

[fatclue_98]

There have been some good points here, and I'm glad this thread hasn't descended into chaos, unlike so many threads of the same general topic.
Bottom line, Microsoft has made a lot of mistakes, but people fault them because Android and iOS came first, and they had dominated the mobile market before Windows made its debut. Am I right? By the time Microsoft had emerged into a growing market of mobile devices, everyone interested in the concept had already bought an iPhone or an Android device. Microsoft released a mobile OS at the same point as a immature platform but long after Android and iOS had grown mature. Furthermore, trying to reach the same point as other platforms, Microsoft released Windows Phone 8 and made it incompatible with previous Windows devices. They lost a lot of consumers who had ventured into the murky pool of the immature platform. WP8 did a lot, but still Windows Phones hadn't reached the point of Android or iOS.
Microsoft has done the best they can in the circumstances. They started later, and made their mistakes. But they're still improving, at the rate expected of such a large company. In fact, we're lucky to get what we are, considering most of Microsoft is focused on their software.

You are a brave soul, my friend. This topic has been very heated in the past and will continue to be. I'll throw in my $.02 for what it's worth if you're patient enough to read my entire post. You mention that Apple and Google were first, which is why Microsoft is so far behind. Actually, MS was around long before the other two when the PDA world was Windows Mobile 2002 and PalmOS. The early smartphone players were WM, PalmOS and BlackBerry. When the 1st gen iPhone came to market, and later the HTC 1, it was a breath of fresh air. The kind that only smaller companies can provide. Apple and Google were not the juggernauts they are today and were led by dynamic leaders with vision. That was Strike 1 against MS. Too many chiefs and not enough Indians. Nobody with the cojones to tell Bill Gates "you're wrong". MS had a loyal user base with Windows Mobile that they basically told to F themselves, we're creating a new brand. Strike 2.

Apple and Google have consistently poached the better talent because the powers that be realize they're not that smart. If Google hadn't scooped up Duarte, Android would still be a Gingerbread mess. Even though they have grown exponentially, the small company mentality is still in place, leadership has been stable and the core principles have not wavered much. As consumers, we can buy all the MS products, hold pep rallies and write to Nadella all we want. But if the culture doesn't change, it will be meaningless. I want MS to succeed. I have a lot invested in their product, but I'm tired of all the corporate reboots too. I really liked Windows Mobile, I saw what it could do with proper hardware (HD2) and so did the developer community. Microsoft shot themselves in the foot and we're the ones footing the hospital bill.

A friendly piece of advice, don't take any of this too seriously or you'll end up talking to yourself.

 

[Zachary Boddy]

You are a brave soul, my friend. This topic has been very heated in the past and will continue to be. I'll throw in my $.02 for what it's worth if you're patient enough to read my entire post. You mention that Apple and Google were first, which is why Microsoft is so far behind. Actually, MS was around long before the other two when the PDA world was Windows Mobile 2002 and PalmOS. The early smartphone players were WM, PalmOS and BlackBerry. When the 1st gen iPhone came to market, and later the HTC 1, it was a breath of fresh air. The kind that only smaller companies can provide. Apple and Google were not the juggernauts they are today and were led by dynamic leaders with vision. That was Strike 1 against MS. Too many chiefs and not enough Indians. Nobody with the cojones to tell Bill Gates "you're wrong". MS had a loyal user base with Windows Mobile that they basically told to F themselves, we're creating a new brand. Strike 2.

Apple and Google have consistently poached the better talent because the powers that be realize they're not that smart. If Google hadn't scooped up Duarte, Android would still be a Gingerbread mess. Even though they have grown exponentially, the small company mentality is still in place, leadership has been stable and the core principles have not wavered much. As consumers, we can buy all the MS products, hold pep rallies and write to Nadella all we want. But if the culture doesn't change, it will be meaningless. I want MS to succeed. I have a lot invested in their product, but I'm tired of all the corporate reboots too. I really liked Windows Mobile, I saw what it could do with proper hardware (HD2) and so did the developer community. Microsoft shot themselves in the foot and we're the ones footing the hospital bill.

A friendly piece of advice, don't take any of this too seriously or you'll end up talking to yourself.

Very well said my friend, but where's my two cents? Haha anyways I respect what you say and I agree with much of it. But however way you look at it, there's a difference between Blackberry, Palm, etc. and smartphones such as the iPhone and Galaxy S.
Yeah, Microsoft has made a lot of mistakes, and I really wish they hadn't. I love Windows Phones and if I was given the option, I'd take a Nokia Lumia 530 over an iPhone 5s. Nokia has done well-except for betraying their contract and making an Android device but that's a completely different topic and not relevant-and I love their cute designs and sturdy builds.
And Microsoft has something great with their ideas, but quite simply it's not nearly as refined as it should be at this point. Here's hoping Windows Phone 9 shows us a new era of Windows Phones!

 

[fdalbor]

We all get frustrated with what is going on at times. A few days ago I got tired of waiting for the cyan/8.1 update for my excellent 820 that I went and bought a Moto G LTE to use until I get the update. Even though I had a 520 that got the update. I got a first hand view of the other side. First off I decided no Google stuff. No problem I downloaded 1 moble market, MoboMarket, and Amazon's store. All the apps I could use. Then I installed a class 10 SD card so I would have all the storage I could use. Started setting up the phone and found NONE of the preinstalled Google apps could be moved to the SD card or uninstalled even though I did not want them. So I started downloading the apps I did want. The (so called) great KitKat would only let me install less than half of them to the SD card even though WP 8.1had let me install all of the same apps to the SD card (same exact card) in my 520. I could go on and on about other things I found better in WP 8.1 but all I will say is watch what you wish for sometimes because you just might get it. Now if only they would push the update thru for my 820 and I can sell the Moto G. Very nice phone and worth every cent, now if it only ran WP 8.1

Sent from my KFTT using Mobile Nations mobile app

 

[squire777]

I agree with OP to an extent and personally think this place has become Whining Phone Central for the last year or so.

Nothing but people complaining and writing Windows Phone's obituary just because WP or a handset doesn't have some features that they absolutely need to show off to their friends. I mean just go look at the 730 and 830 forums that opened today - already full of people just ******** and moaning.

I'm not pushing for a ******, cult mentality here, but the childish bickering has killed the enjoyment of this forum.

 

[xandros9]

I agree with OP to an extent and personally think this place has become Whining Phone Central for the last year or so.

Nothing but people complaining and writing Windows Phone's obituary just because WP or a handset doesn't have some features that they absolutely need to show off to their friends. I mean just go look at the 730 and 830 forums that opened today - already full of people just ******** and moaning.

I'm not pushing for a ******, cult mentality here, but the childish bickering has killed the enjoyment of this forum.

I want my update FIRST!
It should be FIRST,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Never mind its low,,,,,,, end!
Now now now!
When Do I get CYAN LUMIA 520?
when lumia 520 cyan get?
is there date for 520 in INDIA????
Need 8.1 CYAN for L520?
tired of waiting 4 L520 CYAN
stupid MS!!!11!
I'll go back to my cheap android!
rleas date FOR L520 in INDIA??????
L730 WILL phaIL! it sux0rz
nO GLANCE noonewill BUYYY
NO CYAN FOR 800 WHY DUMB M$$$$$
need black on 630
WHERE IS X FEATURE
NEEDS 1 TB RAM FOR $50 offcontract
IDIOTS WHY NO HOLO DISPLAY
wantttt cyannnnn 520 in india why so sloww
NO UPDATE HELPPP!!!!!!! PLZZZZ READ!!!!!

sorry just piggybacking here to vent a bit on what I feel I'm seeing at times, I know that isn't representative of most threads I see, but I'm just taking it to an (slight) extreme, hopefully somewhat satirically and humorously.
Don't take this too seriously please, try to be amused and continue on your day smiling instead of spamming the check for updates button.

Not saying we shouldn't criticize Microsoft, but try to be smarter about it please.

 

[Zachary Boddy]

sorry just piggybacking here to vent a bit on what I feel I'm seeing at times, I know that isn't representative of most threads I see, but I'm just taking it to an (slight) extreme, hopefully somewhat satirically and humorously.
Don't take this too seriously please, try to be amused and continue on your day smiling instead of spamming the check for updates button.

Not saying we shouldn't criticize Microsoft, but try to be smarter about it please.

I think that quite sums up the problems with the forum, haha.

 

[mohit9206]

OP's post is flawed.He says we should not whine about lack of features and keep supporting MS.This is not correct way to look at things.Are we obligated to support MS even if they do not listen to us hoping some say they do listen to us ?
Also he says we must help convince new users to adopt WP but to convince the potential new customers,the OS itself has to be very good and and have features the user is looking for not to mention the hardware and price points should be appealing too all of which MS are slacking in.
Also OP wants us to be patient and not demand big list of features NOW but we have been waiting since WP7 and the wait continues until hopefully MS gives us those big list of features in WP9 if not there is always WP10 right ? With every update MS gives us and every new most wanted feature they introduce,they take 2 away which was present in previous version.If MS was on the right path then its market share would be atleast 10% since its not obviously people are not intersted in WP.Also blame the non existant marketing campaign.Why cant MS promote WP like they do Xbox ? If you cant be as good as the competition atleast market your product as good as the competition but MS cant even be bothered to do that.

 

[KhawarNadeem]

sorry just piggybacking here to vent a bit on what I feel I'm seeing at times, I know that isn't representative of most threads I see, but I'm just taking it to an (slight) extreme, hopefully somewhat satirically and humorously.
Don't take this too seriously please, try to be amused and continue on your day smiling instead of spamming the check for updates button.

Not saying we shouldn't criticize Microsoft, but try to be smarter about it please.

I lost it at "when lumia 520 cyan get?". Thank you for making me laugh so hard. :')

 

[colinkiama]

Windows phone: The only platform where it's apps made by it's own creator are better on other platforms. This right there shows that Microsoft aren't putting in enough resources for windows phone. Why can't the creators of windows make windows phone just as good? That is why I understand why people are making a lot of rants in the forums. Microsoft never fail to disappoint

 

[Zachary Boddy]

OP's post is flawed.He says we should not whine about lack of features and keep supporting MS.This is not correct way to look at things.Are we obligated to support MS even if they do not listen to us hoping some say they do listen to us ?
Also he says we must help convince new users to adopt WP but to convince the potential new customers,the OS itself has to be very good and and have features the user is looking for not to mention the hardware and price points should be appealing too all of which MS are slacking in.
Also OP wants us to be patient and not demand big list of features NOW but we have been waiting since WP7 and the wait continues until hopefully MS gives us those big list of features in WP9 if not there is always WP10 right ? With every update MS gives us and every new most wanted feature they introduce,they take 2 away which was present in previous version.If MS was on the right path then its market share would be atleast 10% since its not obviously people are not intersted in WP.Also blame the non existant marketing campaign.Why cant MS promote WP like they do Xbox ? If you cant be as good as the competition atleast market your product as good as the competition but MS cant even be bothered to do that.

You raise good points, but you also twist the truth a smidge. Of course Microsoft has made mistakes, that much is obvious, but my point is whining about it isn't going to help anything. Yelling at Microsoft to give us what we want now won't help either.
You're right though, marketing is a big issue. Windows Phones should be more than 10% ideally but we're less than 5%. Features have been lacking and Windows Phones are slow to catch up. But with 8.1 alone and coupled updates hardware is getting better, more modern. I expect the next generation of Windows Phones(940, 1530, 1030) to feature much more modern hardware and for all those phones to be 64-bit like Microsoft has been planning for the future. Prices are a bit high, but they're sure as anything better than Apple. Or Samsung.
Yes, Microsoft has been making mistakes, but these mistakes are becoming less and less of an issue with Nadella, and Windows Phones are becoming steadily better. Who knows what waits with Windows Phones 9.

 

[Zachary Boddy]

Windows phone: The only platform where it's apps made by it's own creator are better on other platforms. This right there shows that Microsoft aren't putting in enough resources for windows phone. Why can't the creators of windows make windows phone just as good? That is why I understand why people are making a lot of rants in the forums. Microsoft never fail to disappoint

Yet you're here now, on Windows Phones forums. You probably own a Windows device, actually probably own several. You probably enjoy the interface, at least enough to be here on this forum talking about it. In many ways Android and Apple are far more advanced than Windows, yes, but the improvements are coming, albeit very slowly.
Phones is not where Microsoft is making money. In fact they're still losing money on them. Of course they won't pour everything they have into Windows Phones, since they spend so much time focusing on what's really making them money. Microsoft is a business, and the only reason we still have Windows Phones is because they have the potential to make Microsoft a lot of money.