05-17-2015 12:37 PM
29 12
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  1. beanz alfred's Avatar
    According to Microsoft, we won't see a Windows 10.1 or even Windows 11 for that matter. This doesn't mean the Redmond based company won't update its operating system, just that the update won't be named as it was previously, in the transition from Windows 8.0 to Windows 8.1.

    This news was declared by Jerry Nixon, a Microsoft employee and developer evangelist, at the company's ongoing Ignite conference in Chicago. Nixon explained that the company will be pushing updates to the Windows 10 platform regularly. He stated, "Right now we're releasing Windows 10, and because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we're all still working on Windows 10," which clearly means that future updates will also be branded as Windows 10.

    The users will get an option to choose between fast updates or bundled updates; under the fast update option users will get the update as soon as it is complete, whereas the bundled one will be slower and will occur in longer cycles. The apps will be developed in such a way that they can accommodate quick or monthly updates.

    The Windows 10 update for PCs is scheduled to release in the third quarter of this year whereas the update for phones will be released later. Interested people can download the technical build through the Windows insider program.
    05-12-2015 11:35 AM
  2. gpobernardo's Avatar
    05-12-2015 12:42 PM
  3. hotphil's Avatar
    Does anyone know why they're doing this? For marketing?
    What if they will make some totally different system someday? You know, world changes so fast. You never know what's gonna happen.
    Will they still call it win 10?
    Cannot figure out.
    Because the days of a hardware>fat OS>application stack are coming to an end. Virtualization and containerization are making the "traditional" operating system less relevant. It's happening with VMware Horizon View (or whatever they're calling it this week), Citrix Xen, Remote Desktop, thin/zero clients - the idea of a full-blown client operating is being sidelined. They'll still be Windows as an operating system, but there's some big changes that mean MS are looking to be able to update/improve the OS on a rolling basis, rather than occasional big releases. That's whay it doesn't really matter (with a few caveats) what gets RTM'd in the next few months (if the rumoured timescales are to be believed), the OS will receive constant updates once it's out the door. The traditional release/update model is being ditched. But a lot of people, even "expert" tech journalists, can't seem to fathom this change.
    05-12-2015 10:30 PM
  4. Oliverspin's Avatar
    All this means is that they'll continually make incremental changes to the OS instead a bunch of changes saved up and released at one moment. You could think of it as: from now on we will have even more OS's than we ever have before, they will just be only slightly different than the one before and we will release them frequently.
    beanz alfred likes this.
    05-12-2015 10:40 PM
  5. xandros9's Avatar
    I'm thinking this could be interesting for our phones.
    05-12-2015 10:47 PM
  6. hotphil's Avatar
    Exactly. The road is bumpy (just look at the mess of XBM) but if they can get it to work, it'll be a game-changer, and (I'll hate myself for using this year's most overused tech jargon buzzword) "disruptive". Genuinely. Google and iOS don't have anything to compete with that kind of adaptability. But MS have to shake off their slow-moving culture and properly embrace an agile mentality. At all levels. In all markets. Or it will be just another "MS did it first, everyone else did better, later" exercise.
    gpobernardo and beanz alfred like this.
    05-12-2015 10:55 PM
  7. Yazen's Avatar
    I'm thinking this could be interesting for our phones.
    They say Windows 10 is the last version of Windows. What I'm reading is that they are no longer taxing regular consumers for major OS releases.

    Maybe we'll never have to buy new phones, but I'd imagine this publicity play they made was to keep peoples eyes away from the angry investors lol.

    Only a matter of time before an iSheep endorsed site writes another bogus article xD

    P.S: If anything, Win8.1 has proved that Microsoft can obsolete millions of computers on a minor revision update.
    beanz alfred likes this.
    05-12-2015 11:04 PM
  8. Yazen's Avatar
    Exactly. The road is bumpy (just look at the mess of XBM) but if they can get it to work, it'll be a game-changer, and (I'll hate myself for using this year's most overused tech jargon buzzword) "disruptive". Genuinely. Google and iOS don't have anything to compete with that kind of adaptability. But MS have to shake off their slow-moving culture and properly embrace an agile mentality. At all levels. In all markets. Or it will be just another "MS did it first, everyone else did better, later" exercise.
    "Universal apps" is not exactly exclusive to Microsoft.

    WinRT is just another way to solving a similar problem XD
    05-12-2015 11:13 PM
  9. hotphil's Avatar
    "Universal apps" is not exactly exclusive to Microsoft.
    Well perhaps. But Google and Apple don't have a single OS across screen sizes.
    beanz alfred likes this.
    05-12-2015 11:36 PM
  10. tgp's Avatar
    But Google and Apple don't have a single OS across screen sizes.
    Isn't Windows 10 going to be more universal in that it runs the same apps? From what I understand, it's not really the same OS. The mobile version won't run x86 apps like the desktop.
    05-12-2015 11:42 PM
  11. Yazen's Avatar
    Well perhaps. But Google and Apple don't have a single OS across screen sizes.
    You mean a single runtime, right?
    There are still multiple OSes, only they are under the same moniker :P

    What you are thinking about is Ubuntu Phone, now that implementation was truly one OS.

    If anything, Android is the single OS across screen sizes..
    05-13-2015 06:52 AM
  12. RumoredNow's Avatar
    ...If anything, Android is the single OS across screen sizes..
    Hunh? Chrome OS is not Android. How do you get Android on a PC? Don't say emulator for Apps.

    Nobody is there. Nobody.

    Ubuntu really has been struggling to get their Mobile flavor released and when it does, even though it might dock, it still is not identical to desktop. Their convergence is down the road a generation or two, as is Microsoft's. Google is starting to converge Android and Chrome, but they aren't there either.

    Meanwhile, Apple loves to sell you more and more and more and more... They will converge very late if I guess right and only after it is shown in the market that consumers want this and it has been viable in the marketplace for two years and then they will "innovate" it.
    05-13-2015 08:36 AM
  13. Yazen's Avatar
    Hunh? Chrome OS is not Android. How do you get Android on a PC? Don't say emulator for Apps.

    Nobody is there. Nobody.

    Ubuntu really has been struggling to get their Mobile flavor released and when it does, even though it might dock, it still is not identical to desktop. Their convergence is down the road a generation or two, as is Microsoft's. Google is starting to converge Android and Chrome, but they aren't there either.

    Meanwhile, Apple loves to sell you more and more and more and more... They will converge very late if I guess right and only after it is shown in the market that consumers want this and it has been viable in the marketplace for two years and then they will "innovate" it.
    1. Adaptive UI is new to WP OS, however, this feature has been a part of Android for many years: https://developer.android.com/traini...een/index.html
    2. Android ART runs on every architecture that is supported, e.g x86, ARM, MIPS, etc. You can wipe your desktop or laptop OS and install Android.
    3. Android ARC runs in Chrome OS, and on every platform that has their Chrome browser. ARC is like WinRT for Chrome


    Google has had "Universal Apps" for years, and now their apps will be nearly "Universal" on every platform via ARC.

    EDIT:
    Not saying Google is better than Microsoft, or that their implementations are the same. Different approaches for different goals. Microsoft needs Universal Apps to saturatetheir platform, whereas Google is using their Universal Apps to saturate other platforms!
    gpobernardo likes this.
    05-13-2015 09:19 AM
  14. RumoredNow's Avatar
    ...Android ART runs on every architecture that is supported, e.g x86, ARM, MIPS, etc. You can wipe your desktop or laptop OS and install Android...
    Without virtualization? Got a link because I've not seen that done. Curious to see; does it work with play store integration and true App access and no setup other than install on a blank partition and boot from there?


    Android ARC runs in Chrome OS, and on every platform that has their Chrome browser. ARC is like WinRT for Chrome
    Running Android Apps in a runtime environment under Chrome OS or inside of Chrome browser is not the same as running Android as an OS on your system.

    I might be splitting hairs, but we are talking about true convergence where the OS kernel and all of the build is the same no matter what screen you put it on so unless you can show a link from the top quote I made from your post it is not passing the convergence test in my mind. I won't be finicky and include TV screens.

    I'm not saying Android isn't trying for convergence, That's why they went down the Chrome OS road to begin with as a starting point. It's whyt Ubuntu is branching out off desktop and into mobile form factors. I just have not seen it fulfilled in current Gen.
    gpobernardo and xandros9 like this.
    05-13-2015 02:26 PM
  15. Yazen's Avatar
    Without virtualization? Got a link because I've not seen that done. Curious to see; does it work with play store integration and true App access and no setup other than install on a blank partition and boot from there?




    Running Android Apps in a runtime environment under Chrome OS or inside of Chrome browser is not the same as running Android as an OS on your system.

    I might be splitting hairs, but we are talking about true convergence where the OS kernel and all of the build is the same no matter what screen you put it on so unless you can show a link from the top quote I made from your post it is not passing the convergence test in my mind. I won't be finicky and include TV screens.

    I'm not saying Android isn't trying for convergence, That's why they went down the Chrome OS road to begin with as a starting point. It's whyt Ubuntu is branching out off desktop and into mobile form factors. I just have not seen it fulfilled in current Gen.
    WP shares an extended subset of the NT kernel but that certainly does not make them the same OS.

    Windows and Windows Phone are different OSes. Universal Apps are developed using WinRT, Windows Runtime.

    The main difference between WP8.1 and W10 is the app switch from WPF to WinRT. As it is WinRT is not as pleasant or as comprehensive to develop for compared to WPF.

    *Spoiler* If you guys are ever wondering why development never really took off on Windows RT it is because developing for WinRT sucked.

    Using ARC on the Chrome browser is conceptually the same as using Universal Apps on Windows. Additionally, Android is the same OS across different hardware and form factors ;)

    [ WinRT + Adaptive UI == Android ART ]
    05-13-2015 08:27 PM
  16. RumoredNow's Avatar
    You seem to think I'm trying to say Windows has convergence with 10 and I'm not.

    And for the same reasons I say convergence has not yet come to Windows you are trying to claim as good enough to boast Android has convergence.

    You are having your own conversation with yourself that has nothing to do with my posts that you quote; so kindly stop quoting them as they have no relevance to the conversation you are trying to have.
    05-13-2015 09:20 PM
  17. Yazen's Avatar
    You seem to think I'm trying to say Windows has convergence with 10 and I'm not.

    And for the same reasons I say convergence has not yet come to Windows you are trying to claim as good enough to boast Android has convergence.

    You are having your own conversation with yourself that has nothing to do with my posts that you quote; so kindly stop quoting them as they have no relevance to the conversation you are trying to have.
    Can you explain to me why Android is not convergent across devices and form factors? Might be easier to understand from someone more experienced
    05-13-2015 09:46 PM
  18. Jas00555's Avatar
    Can you explain to me why Android is not convergent across devices and form factors? Might be easier to understand from someone more experienced
    What devices are you talking about? Aside from emulation, Android apps can't run natively in Chrome.

    I think what you're actually referring to is that the Linux kernel is adaptive across multiple form factors. But even that would be splitting hairs as NT has been on phones for years.

    I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding you, but it really sounds like you're saying that you can write an Android app once and have it adapt to a phone/tablet/PC UI while simultaneously being native. Android can't do that, only Windows can. When you write a universal app, it can adapt to tablets, laptops, and desktops. All ARC does is emulate Android apps. If I'm misunderstanding you, please let me know.
    05-13-2015 09:54 PM
  19. Jazmac's Avatar
    I'll call it early.... BS.
    There will be an 11. Guaranteed!! It may not be called 11 or get some name base on the time of day like our phones get, but this WON'T be the last version of Windows. This my friend is called MARKETING!
    tgp, fatclue_98 and Yazen like this.
    05-13-2015 10:18 PM
  20. tgp's Avatar
    I'll call it early.... BS.
    There will be an 11. Guaranteed!! It may not be called 11 or get some name base on the time of day like our phones get, but this WON'T be the last version of Windows. This my friend is called MARKETING!
    I agree that it won't just remain "Windows 10". At the very least, I believe there will be some kind of naming convention or something for subsequent upgrades even if 10 remains in the name. I cannot imagine that in 2025 we will have the same Windows 10 name we have now. I do not see how there can not be some kind of distinction.

    Another possibility is that "10" is dropped altogether, and then Windows is followed by a name, such as Windows Adam, Windows Basel... By the time Zebra is used, we'll probably be in a completely different paradigm, and Windows as we know it will be long gone.
    Jazmac and Laura Knotek like this.
    05-13-2015 10:34 PM
  21. fatclue_98's Avatar
    What's the big deal? Apple's desktop has been OS "X" (Roman numeral 10 for the uninitiated) for over a decade now. In spite of what the so-called smart people say, Microsoft is doing this with cold calculation. They're probably already working on something for 3-5 years down the road.
    Laura Knotek and tgp like this.
    05-13-2015 10:35 PM
  22. hotphil's Avatar
    Yep, there's already a team working on "Redstone".
    05-13-2015 10:36 PM
  23. fatclue_98's Avatar
    By the time Zebra is used, we'll probably be in a completely different paradigm.
    Better start taking your Centrum now if you plan on seeing that day. I'll gladly be pushing up daisies.
    05-13-2015 10:38 PM
  24. Yazen's Avatar
    What devices are you talking about? Aside from emulation, Android apps can't run natively in Chrome.

    I think what you're actually referring to is that the Linux kernel is adaptive across multiple form factors. But even that would be splitting hairs as NT has been on phones for years.

    I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding you, but it really sounds like you're saying that you can write an Android app once and have it adapt to a phone/tablet/PC UI while simultaneously being native. Android can't do that, only Windows can. When you write a universal app, it can adapt to tablets, laptops, and desktops. All ARC does is emulate Android apps. If I'm misunderstanding you, please let me know.
    Was wondering what makes the new Adaptive UI WinRT any different than the ones available in Android for years. Android ART has Adaptive UI.

    ARC runs via legacy Dalvik, but I would not call it an emulator.
    Edit: Afaik no translation layer is needed, virtual machine ≠ emulator?
    05-13-2015 10:51 PM
  25. Jas00555's Avatar
    Was wondering what makes the new Adaptive UI WinRT any different than the ones available in Android for years. Android ART has Adaptive UI.

    ARC runs via legacy Dalvik, but I would not call it an emulator.
    Edit: Afaik no translation layer is needed, virtual machine ≠ emulator?
    I think there's a misunderstanding here. If I made an Android app, would I be able to simply send it to the Chrome Web Store and have it adapt to the screen size and be able to adapt to work with both touch and mouse/keyboard? As Microsoft has shown with Mail, Calendar, Video, Music, Office, and many more apps, this is possible on Windows.

    All the ART (thanks for correcting me though, got my acronyms mixed up, even though I was thinking of the same thing!) is doing in Chrome is displaying the Android app in a windowed mode, with no consideration that it's running on a desktop. Until it does that, I can't actually say it has adaptive scaling. (skip to 2:20 to see what I mean).

    Maybe for touch screen devices, you could make that argument, but as Microsoft learned from Windows 8, people don't want touch screen apps on their desktops and laptops.
    Last edited by Jas00555; 05-14-2015 at 07:51 AM. Reason: Didn't notice a typo until an embarrasingly long time
    05-13-2015 11:10 PM
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