1. mdxzfr's Avatar
    Microsoft, ship Duo in two versions! Whether Android or Windows 10X.

    Who would vote for this option? Yes or No?

    This is the most good choice for Microsoft to ship this device into the market, with Android or Windows 10X. This will benefit both consumers and enterprises.

    For consumers, mostly might go with Android version. But they can't just forget that they used to have many loyal fans of Windows Mobile back in the day. So at least, in mobile community, all users have their option to choose, thus will win everyone's heart.

    So the enterprises. Some of them might choose Windows 10X, who knows? Because, W10X can run full Windows 10 apps. So maybe they need some apps in desktop version like Offices.

    If I have a chance to talk to Panos Panay, I would say this myself. Or maybe somebody could at least ask him and the team.

    So, what do you guys think?
    DavidBS1989 likes this.
    10-04-2019 08:58 AM
  2. Doug Woolard's Avatar
    Give me W10 phone and text on DUO. I don't need all that other stuff. Most of the mobile apps I use today all have phone friendly websites.
    DavidBS1989 and OhmsFutility like this.
    10-04-2019 01:01 PM
  3. mdxzfr's Avatar
    The only hope that seems can come true is Windows 10X. A full Windows just like other 2-in-1s n Pcs. Maybe no win32 emulation. Windows 10Mobile will unlikely to happen. But who knows? maybe Msft working on it silently.
    DavidBS1989 likes this.
    10-04-2019 09:29 PM
  4. Drael646464's Avatar
    I'd be just as happy FOR NOW, if duo could run UWP apps and featured some good options for a modernized launcher.

    MSFT owns the codebase for these software environments as well as win32, and they could all be made to run on their own fork of android via emulation. There's nothing in the google license that prohibits emulation.

    Likewise, hell, I'd be happy if it ran those apps via the cloud.

    Likewise, you wouldn't want some janky implementation of it either.

    IDK, I have mixed feelings about a fully windows environment for this phone, I just don't think MSFT is there yet. Let them perfect the neo first, get some progress on whatever the heck they are doing with windows core etc.

    But simultaneously, I think the neo and duo should absolutely share SOME level of software between each other, and with windows in general. It's within microsofts power to make that possible.
    10-06-2019 04:24 AM
  5. mdxzfr's Avatar
    Please sign!

    http://chng.it/YQNfPfCNCv
    DavidBS1989 likes this.
    10-06-2019 07:46 AM
  6. Ryujingt3's Avatar
    I'm just happy MS is releasing another phone device. I don't care if it's Android. MS and all of us have been severely burned many times as Windows Phones fans, so repeating the same mistakes, and giving the Duo Windows 10X as an OS, is probably something MS won't do.

    They are hedging all their bets with Google now and don't want the responsibility of handling the hardware and the software of the Duo. In turn, this allows MS to focus on the hardware that they are still good at.
    TgeekB and sd4f like this.
    10-06-2019 08:49 AM
  7. mdxzfr's Avatar
    You know are huge different between Windows Mobile and Windows 10X right? Full Windows apps will make it different, to some at least. Anyway, why not we have an option to choose right? So everyone can choose their OS happily.
    DavidBS1989 likes this.
    10-06-2019 07:10 PM
  8. PFSP's Avatar
    that would be fine, it is pretty useless to me as an android device. I don't understand why they just didn't make a pocketable version of the Neo. That is what I want - to be able to carry my pc in my pocket - dock it when I get to my desk. and sure have it make phone calls and send text messages.
    treiz and OhmsFutility like this.
    10-08-2019 01:45 PM
  9. Michael Zedalis's Avatar
    If the DUO shouldn't be considered a phone, I dont see an issue with 10x being installed. This is gonna back fire and we wont see another device for years. Again "dont think of it as a phone". I dont think windows fans are the ones thinking it. The only way I would buy this is if windows 10x or windows is on continuum.
    10-08-2019 04:49 PM
  10. Richard Durishin's Avatar
    Some say that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing, over and over, and getting the same result.

    I can already see the reviews and hear the cries of the lowly consumers who bought a Win version of the Duo: "Where are the apps?"
    10-09-2019 08:20 AM
  11. mdxzfr's Avatar
    The reason for Win10X on Duo is to get out of phone form-factor. To be true pocketable PC. PC needs Windows. If anybody wants a phone, full of apps like Whatsapp, Instagram, Facebook, go to Android variant. Windows variant is for anyone who want a PC on-the-go in their pocket for Office, Notes, Simple Sketch or Drawing, etc. It's just that simple. Microsoft still get the benefit from the Android version if the Windows variant fail or just 1% sold in the market.
    DavidBS1989 likes this.
    10-09-2019 09:49 PM
  12. Ryujingt3's Avatar
    Some say that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing, over and over, and getting the same result.

    I can already see the reviews and hear the cries of the lowly consumers who bought a Win version of the Duo: "Where are the apps?"
    Exactly this! MS got burnt already with the whole Windows RT thing.
    10-13-2019 09:51 AM
  13. Mydraal's Avatar
    Microsoft didn't get burned. Microsoft sawed off the limb the were sitting on. Microsoft has been playing Coyote to the world's RoadRunner.

    Just so you know where I'm coming from, I'm a Windows developer since Version 1 of Windows. I've worked on every version of Windows except the PowerPC. My first Smartphone was Windows CE based. Motorola 220.

    The thing that has been happening is Microsoft and their lack of consumer understanding, but from my perspective, they have been aiming at their foot at every turn.

    C and C++ Is where the majority of applications for Windows were written. When Windows Mobile 3 came out, they demanded C#. OK. Not a big leap and understandable Wince the ARM (and other small chips) wasn't the same. Still, a compiler should handle the differences between processors. But, they wanted to push a processor agnostic run-time. Also, potentially noble, but it does kicked developers out.

    Windows Mobile up through version 6.5 didn't really change. At least not according to the people that screamed for years for Microsoft to change things. They wouldn't. But Microsoft was king of the smartphone market. Who needed to compete with that? Not Microsoft.

    Windows 7 was a "complete rewrite", but it didn't need to be and it never appeared to be under the hood. Directory structures and registry, DLLs and the rest all appeared to be the same, but it was late. What you did get was Apple's release strategy. Microsoft dropped Cut, Copy and Paste, and multitasking. All things that existed in every version of Windows since version 1. But, it didn't exist in the iPhone at the initial release. And you got an App store where Microsoft could decide what you would run and a developer suddenly had to pay to write apps.

    Then was Windows 8. Remember when we were told to use C# and Silverlight? Not on Windows 8 and then Windows Phone 8. Everything is now CSS3, HTML5 and Javascript.

    And Windows RT? That was running on ARM like Windows CE? A new market for our CE projects? A new way to run our corporate tools? No. You could not compile binary apps for the RT. Unless you were Microsoft. Everyone needs Office and Microsoft wasn't ready for CSS#/HTML5 Office. So they ran the binaries, but no one else could. RT was going to promise a new age of all windows apps running on WOA! (Windows on ARM). That never materialized.

    Windows Phone 8 was more of the same. Windows 10 Mobile was still locked down and you did get multi-tasking and Cut, Copy and Paste in Phone 7.5 before I get called on that.

    So, the big question is "Did developers abandon Microsoft? Or did Microsoft abandon the developers?" Did the Windows RT prove that no one would support Windows on ARM? Or did Microsoft close the door on developers that wanted to support ARM? With Windows 10X, Microsoft could provide a basis for all Windows apps to run on ALL Windows machines, but they still refuse. Maybe it is Intel? Emulators could be the issue, but still, the tech will allow what Microsoft won't.

    Windows 10X can work on the DUO. It is working on the Neo. Windows on ARM is running on the Lumia 950X. It has a DOS emulator running as well. What about the Apps for 10X? All the Windows Apps (potentially). "But not phone apps!" you say. Try BlueStacks, Andy, GenyMotion? There are Android emulators for Windows. Windows 10X with a built-in Android emulator can run most of the Apps you need and want. WebApps! Microsoft could even entice Android developers to sell their Apps in the Windows Store UNCHANGED to run in the emulator on Windows. With maybe a little help for those that need a fix. Use this to build the Windows Store. Not porting. Emulating. No extra work, just extra audience; extra customers.

    Windows 10X on Duo could be a hit, but it still does expect Microsoft to perform. And that is the real question. Can Microsoft support a commercial user product? BAND. Ok. Maybe Microsoft does too much aBANDonware.

    I want my real Windows on a pocketable device that makes phone calls!
    DavidBS1989 and OhmsFutility like this.
    10-14-2019 10:05 AM
  14. naddy6969's Avatar
    Some say that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing, over and over, and getting the same result
    No one says that.

    The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a DIFFERENT result.

    This is why the Duo “phone” runs Android. But, it is really a tablet.
    DavidBS1989 likes this.
    03-30-2020 10:18 PM
  15. Dan12R's Avatar
    There are a few angles here. First, we must consider the average consumer. Even when Windows 10 Mobile was around and supported, it didn't get any attention from the average consumer. I was amazed by the number of people who would say to me "There's Windows on phones?!?" when I showed them my Lumia 950XL. Beyond just the OS, it's also OEM attention. I see people post on Facebook asking if they should get an Apple or Samsung phone. When someone mentions another OEMs like LG, OnePlus, or ASUS, the response from the poster all too often is "They make phones?" or "I've never heard of them," dismissing the recommendation immediately. Why? Because they want a simple choice and they don't want to make the choice more complicated unless they see a value in adding another choice. And they must see that value on their own. They can't be forced to see it.

    This makes my next point an even bigger mountain to climb. Microsoft is loathed to call this thing a phone and for good reason. However, that's what everyone is going to call it. It's a computer that fits in your pocket and makes phone calls. To get the general public to wrap their heads around this device out of the gate is a massive effort. To get your average consumer to look at this thing as anything but a phone on day one is impossible.

    So let's bring these points together. Your average consumer doesn't think Microsoft or Surface when it comes to phones and they're going to view this as a phone for reasons mentioned. If Microsoft is going to be a part of the dinner table conversation about phones, it can't stray too far from the average consumer's expectations of what a phone is. This means meeting consumers expectations for an OS on a phone. Since iOS isn't available to 3rd parties, that means Android. It also keeps it simple. Let's say we get that person asking iPhone or Samsung to now ask iPhone, Samsung, or Surface Duo. Even if they just make W10X an option, adding another OS to the equation runs the risk of analysis paralysis. Some people will overlook the Duo all together because they don't want to then decide on the OS. They're used to the OEM determining the OS.

    Let's also not forget that Windows 10X is brand new. It's not even on any available devices.

    Now this isn't all doom and gloom. The V1 Duo needs to be only available with one OS. Due to obvious reasons, that's Android. But this isn't to say that the facts of the story can't change by V3. For those that want a Windows 10X Duo, you really need to support the Neo and/or other dual screen W10X devices. Aside from the OS and lack of telephony, the Neo is just a big Duo (in the eyes of an average consumer in case anyone's feeling pedantic). It's the device that is going to show consumers how a Windows based mobile device could work. It's the device that will help consumers understand how the Duo is different from typical slab smartphones. The Neo's success will also encourage devs to port their apps to UWP, allowing for a mobile device to exist without Google Play or Apple's app store.

    While a Windows 10X Duo wouldn't be prudent today, it could be a reality in the future if things play out correctly.
    HeyCori likes this.
    05-28-2020 11:12 AM
  16. nate0's Avatar
    I am still trying to figure out the real reason why Microsoft went Android...
    06-01-2020 11:47 AM
  17. Lloyydd's Avatar
    I am still trying to figure out the real reason why Microsoft went Android...
    Android has over 70% market share, iOS 25%.

    How can you still ask yourself why Microsoft went with Android? Reason is 100% obvious and nothing else would make any kind of sense.

    Smartphone market is getting harder and harder every year, especially App wise. Developers have to work hard to update their Apps to new form factors and screen sizes, there is 0 point in launching new phone OS right now.

    Guys, you have to look at the truth. Even if we want, the term Surface is not as popular as we wish it would be, a Surface phone with Android is the only chance for Microsoft to get into the market.
    06-02-2020 08:08 AM
  18. naddy6969's Avatar
    I am still trying to figure out the real reason why Microsoft went Android...
    Two reasons.

    1. Because iOS is not an option, for obvious reasons.

    2. Because Windows is not an option, for totally different but equally obvious reasons.
    06-02-2020 10:00 PM
  19. me just saying's Avatar
    IMO, they put a lot of money into the surface duo. If they want a successful phone, they must create sales. Windows operating system on a mobile is a deal breaker for a lot of users but with android on the phone there is a good chance there will be much higher sales.
    06-02-2020 10:53 PM
  20. Dan12R's Avatar
    I am still trying to figure out the real reason why Microsoft went Android...
    When the device was first announced, I asked this question. When going through the options, it was the only real choice.

    Apple doesn't license out iOS so that's not an option. That leaves us Windows 10 Mobile, Windows 10X, and Android.

    Considering general consumers as well as the tech press, anything called "Windows" without addressing the primary issue as to why Windows mobile OS's have failed would be DOA. If they had put Windows 10X on this, the immediate criticism would be "Where are the apps?" This is the number one question I dealt with during the time of Windows Phone. I got a lot of people to buy Windows Phone devices. They left though and their main complaint was the lack of apps. Those that I didn't convince to try it out cited the lack of apps.

    Sure, Microsoft could try various incentives to get developers on board. They could offer $1 million for every app ported to the platform that has at least 1 million users on iOS/Android. But even those who aren't cynics would wait it out and see if whatever effort Microsoft makes would pan out.

    By going Android, the number one critique of a Microsoft phone is DOA instead of the phone. Nobody can say "Where are the apps?" for an Android phone.

    This also changes the discussion in a different aspect. The Duo isn't a phone from a company that failed at making smartphones running a failed mobile OS. It's a phone from a company that failed at making smartphones running a successful OS. And note that I'm only saying Microsoft is a company that failed at making smartphones because that's how many consumers view it. This approach makes the general proposition of the device a little easier for consumers to swallow.

    Now if Microsoft can do two things in particular, I think we could see a day with a Duo device running Windows.
    1. The Duo with Android needs to be successful. If the Duo does well, Microsoft will go from being another "Us too!" smartphone maker to an industry leader where their actions can start dictating the actions of other companies. This would give them a little clout in the market to push bold ideas that are adopted by others.
    2. The success of Windows 10X. If devs get on board with that and there's automatic (automatic, not easy) transition for apps on Windows 10X devices like the Neo to work on a Duo running 10X, then the previous app question starts to disappear.

    Until that day though, Android is really the only option.
    06-04-2020 02:25 PM
  21. nate0's Avatar
    Android has over 70% market share, iOS 25%.

    How can you still ask yourself why Microsoft went with Android? Reason is 100% obvious and nothing else would make any kind of sense.

    Smartphone market is getting harder and harder every year, especially App wise. Developers have to work hard to update their Apps to new form factors and screen sizes, there is 0 point in launching new phone OS right now.

    Guys, you have to look at the truth. Even if we want, the term Surface is not as popular as we wish it would be, a Surface phone with Android is the only chance for Microsoft to get into the market.
    I simply ask myself like I stated it in my post. That's how I ask myself. It's not in Microsoft's character to do something like that. Or maybe I'm dreaming of a utopia IT World... If I were them I would have explored the open source community and their own endeavors from their own source code etc before trying to contribute to one of their competitors...
    06-06-2020 07:29 PM
  22. nate0's Avatar
    I think you all are missing my real point here. Microsoft trying to do mobile is just not to make sales. So them wanting to succeed in sell loads of this thing is not why they did this. At least not fromy perspective.
    06-06-2020 07:32 PM
  23. Dan12R's Avatar
    We are in the time of a new Microsoft. For example, the idea of Microsoft contributing to open source software in the 1990's is laughable. They would have never done that. The idea of Microsoft making iOS and Android the prime experience for their apps instead of their own mobile OS (going back just a year or two) wouldn't have been considered 15 years ago.

    Technically, Android isn't a competing product of Microsoft. Android is a mobile OS. Microsoft doesn't have a mobile OS. Additionally, Android is open source.

    We often consider Android as a Google product due to something called Google Mobile Services (GMS). This is the suite of apps that OEMs often license when they put Android on a device and includes things like Chrome, GMail, and YouTube. The crown jewel though is the Google Play Store. Since that's how most people get Android apps, most OEMs include the whole GMS suite on their device. It's a package deal.

    I do wonder how much Google will be in the Android on the Duo. Reportedly, the default browser will be Edge, the default mail app will be Outlook, and Microsoft Launcher is the default launcher. Reportedly the Google Play Store will be there as well. Finally, it's reported Microsoft worked with Google on this OS. So it does raise the question of how much Google will be in this version of Android.

    While it's Android, this may still end up being a very Microsoft OS.
    06-08-2020 09:08 AM

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