09-01-2018 08:56 PM
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  1. Geodude074's Avatar
    What's the point of a more mobile Surface if the Windows 10 tablet experience is still awful? I've had Windows 8 and Windows 10 tablets for years now, my last Windows 10 tablet was a cheap $100 NuVision and I wouldn't pay a penny more for it. Why? Because Windows 10 is just awful for using as a tablet. The keyboard sucks, autocorrect and suggestions suck, mobile browsers suck, absolutely terrible app selection that has been the bane of Windows mobile since Windows 8 came out. None of it has improved, nobody in their right mind would use a Windows 10 device as their primary tablet over iOS or Android.

    Having said that, I do like having full desktop features in an 8 inch device. I primarily use it for emulation. Second job is to stream movies from my media server, since it's easier to just connect and stream from the same network.

    Not saying that I dislike Windows. I love Windows, but as a desktop experience. As a tablet experience though, it's awful, has never worked well, and will never work well until it receives a complete overhaul to make it more mobile friendly. Until then, Windows tablets will always be just niche devices (like my NuVision) and will never compete at the same level as the iPad, nor will they ever have the same form factor/practicality as a cheap Chromebook (or even a cheap Windows laptop).
    Andrew G1 likes this.
    08-13-2018 03:11 AM
  2. ochhanz's Avatar
    I like win10 more than android and ios on tablets, I thought I had a right mind. :x

    Ios: I don't find it clear and am always searching for things I shouldn't have to search for. It also feels to restricted for me cause I cannot run Steam and Gog.

    Android: lack of privacy cause of Google's bloatware, lack of updates on the long term and sometimes slow security updates and freemium **** apps clouding everything. Also feels restricted.

    Win10: I like the start menu (I set it as fullscreen), tablet mode is important I think to make the onscreen keyboard more reliable, I like the task bar which I set as auto hide, I set system scaling to quite high for big enough buttons. I use gesturesign for more handy gestures. Having access to my library of Steam and Gog games is really nice I think, even when not many have touch support (which why I would always use a keyboard+touchpad cover or 2-1 device). Personally I like the browsers more than on tablets where Firefox offers the best privacy and Edge has better touch support. True there are less apps but I feel the bulk is covered for most people, except for some banking/payment apps sadly.

    Also 8 inch is to small, I prefer 10/11 inch and 3:2 is also preferable. And m proc or something like the pentium gold the Surface Go has for fast enough speed. That is why I am also interested in the Surface Go but I want to get more mileage out of my current devices first.
    08-13-2018 03:34 AM
  3. darrell reimer's Avatar
    I really liked Windows 8 on my old Surface RT...don't laugh, but i really did.
    08-13-2018 09:09 PM
  4. Drael646464's Avatar
    That's a lot of negative over the top hyperbole for a single post. Just about the only thing I can really agree with in any of that, is that windows still needs to sort out its shape writing keyboard (which works intermittently), and that it can be improved in terms of touch UI.

    But if your standard for something being "absolutely terrible" is that you'd prefer it to be slightly different, I suggest you never get stranded in the jungle.
    08-14-2018 03:05 AM
  5. Drael646464's Avatar
    I like win10 more than android and ios on tablets, I thought I had a right mind. :x

    Ios: I don't find it clear and am always searching for things I shouldn't have to search for. It also feels to restricted for me cause I cannot run Steam and Gog.

    Android: lack of privacy cause of Google's bloatware, lack of updates on the long term and sometimes slow security updates and freemium **** apps clouding everything. Also feels restricted.

    Win10: I like the start menu (I set it as fullscreen), tablet mode is important I think to make the onscreen keyboard more reliable, I like the task bar which I set as auto hide, I set system scaling to quite high for big enough buttons. I use gesturesign for more handy gestures. Having access to my library of Steam and Gog games is really nice I think, even when not many have touch support (which why I would always use a keyboard+touchpad cover or 2-1 device). Personally I like the browsers more than on tablets where Firefox offers the best privacy and Edge has better touch support. True there are less apps but I feel the bulk is covered for most people, except for some banking/payment apps sadly.

    Also 8 inch is to small, I prefer 10/11 inch and 3:2 is also preferable. And m proc or something like the pentium gold the Surface Go has for fast enough speed. That is why I am also interested in the Surface Go but I want to get more mileage out of my current devices first.
    God I hate the ad filled, microtransaction terrible app/game quality on android. It feels like going back to free to air TV, only worse. It's like no, I'd rather have the Netflix model and pay for everything up front. It's extremely time consuming to avoid this on android, really like amazon, the whole platform merely exists to sell you stuff.

    Ios software is alright, but it's kinda like a house that's been so childproofed you can't open the doors (or use any competitor products).

    I like using desktop grade games and software on the go, and casually. I especially like having desktop grade software for basic tasks like browsing, or media. Mobile OSes just feel like the shallow end of the swimming pool.

    I appreciate the passion of this post though. That's kinda fun.
    08-14-2018 03:11 AM
  6. ochhanz's Avatar
    I appreciate the passion of this post though. That's kinda fun.
    , it was also kind out of nowhere which I thought was kindy funny.
    :>
    08-14-2018 05:43 AM
  7. libra89's Avatar
    Interesting viewpoint but I'm not surprised. I have heard that Windows 8.1 (or was it 8?) was a better tablet OS. Even in Dan's review, he has mentioned that it isn't a great tablet OS and that is actually a con on the review.

    It's funny that you post this, as this experience was the reason why Jon of TechnoBuffalo did not like Surface Go (and they just posted this video, probably even around the time you posted this thread, actually!)


    Personally, for that reason, I would probably only use the Go with a Type Cover...
    08-14-2018 10:50 AM
  8. beman39's Avatar
    Interesting viewpoint but I'm not surprised. I have heard that Windows 8.1 (or was it 8?) was a better tablet OS. Even in Dan's review, he has mentioned that it isn't a great tablet OS and that is actually a con on the review.

    It's funny that you post this, as this experience was the reason why Jon of TechnoBuffalo did not like Surface Go (and they just posted this video, probably even around the time you posted this thread, actually!)


    Personally, for that reason, I would probably only use the Go with a Type Cover...
    OMG so much fail in his video... first off he gets the lowest version and then tries to run games that are meant for gaming laptops and desktops and then starts complaining about it.. like what?? go wasn't designed for that so of course it isn't gonna run the greatest! thats like trying to run the same game on a iPad or chromebook or even the galaxy tab 10 inch.. c'mooon!

    I'm just gonna leave this right here....
    08-14-2018 06:36 PM
  9. libra89's Avatar
    OMG so much fail in his video... first off he gets the lowest version and then tries to run games that are meant for gaming laptops and desktops and then starts complaining about it.. like what?? go wasn't designed for that so of course it isn't gonna run the greatest! thats like trying to run the same game on a iPad or chromebook or even the galaxy tab 10 inch.. c'mooon!

    I'm just gonna leave this right here....
    Great video! Thanks for linking. Go Dan!
    TechFreak1 and Jcmg62 like this.
    08-14-2018 07:05 PM
  10. beman39's Avatar
    BTW, this is what irks me greatly, people doing stupid stuff like this and setting up the S-GO to fail or whatever MSFT device for that matter and pretending to be objective and trying to sound all smart and knowledgeable with bad examples and bad facts and mis-information and basically jumping on the anti-MSFT bandwagon and thats what basically what happened with WM10 and PARTLY why it failed and didn't quit make it in the mobile market! plus the fact MSFT gave up to easily and a plethora of other mistakes MSFT did... WM10 could have made it and is a great platform IMHO... same thing with Windows RT.. if MSFT would've advertised/marketed it PROPERLY and if everyone saw the video that Sean Ong posted what the RT was truly capable of doing, it wouldn't have crashed and burned like it did... but its far to late anyways....
    Jcmg62 likes this.
    08-14-2018 07:42 PM
  11. HeyCori's Avatar
    While I'm sure there are things that Windows 10 can do better at in tablet mode I'm kind of over the entire thing. I hit the start button, my apps are on the start screen, I open the app, I close the app. Windows 8 might win some visual and Some minor navigating points, but as a whole I'm not having any real trouble navigating Windows 10. If there was anything I could change, it would be being able to bring up the start menu by swiping in from the left. That would make life so much simpler.
    Last edited by HeyCori; 08-14-2018 at 09:41 PM.
    08-14-2018 07:51 PM
  12. Andrew G1's Avatar
    No, really, the tablet experience on Windows 10 needs a hell of a lot of work.

    Well, maybe not a hell of a lot. Maybe just a few native edge gestures, like the ones from Win8/8.1. Without something like that, my Surface is basically useless as a touch tablet (though amazing as a pen tablet, btw).

    I use TouchMe Gestures and its engine to set up a bunch of custom gestures. Otherwise, touch-tablet use is almost impossible.
    SpinelessWonder likes this.
    08-14-2018 11:57 PM
  13. Drael646464's Avatar
    No, really, the tablet experience on Windows 10 needs a hell of a lot of work.

    Well, maybe not a hell of a lot. Maybe just a few native edge gestures, like the ones from Win8/8.1. Without something like that, my Surface is basically useless as a touch tablet (though amazing as a pen tablet, btw).

    I use TouchMe Gestures and its engine to set up a bunch of custom gestures. Otherwise, touch-tablet use is almost impossible.
    I don't really even use gestures or tablet mode and I have no issues using Windows touch only. Well apart from snap. What action requires gestures? Can't you just tap something like you would with a mouse?
    Andrew G1 likes this.
    08-15-2018 01:51 AM
  14. richard_rsp's Avatar
    Ironically, I'm using the GO (4gb) as a tablet for the first time while reading this!

    It appears to be okay, not quite iPad level, but it's better than it used to be. No real complaints as of yet!
    libra89, aximtreo, HeyCori and 2 others like this.
    08-15-2018 10:00 AM
  15. Davin Peterson's Avatar
    Why did you have to bring up the iPad. What about Android tablets? iOS and Android are much better and optimized on tablets than Windows 10 tablet mode.
    08-20-2018 07:16 AM
  16. Kasuja's Avatar
    It needs a lot of rework. It could borrow the animations and gestures from tablet mode in windows 8.1 or something futuristic from the Microsoft: Productivity Future Vision video's.

    08-20-2018 07:30 AM
  17. overbored's Avatar
    Drael646464 - your comment about the iPad was perfect. A childproof house where you can't open the doors! Perfect!


    I’m not sure what makes the Tablet mode terrible – can somebody illuminate why it is terrible? It has all the necessary gestures that parallels the iPad. You have task switcher, start menu, notification and action center, you can do side by side easily. Plus, Windows 10 won’t automagically close/suspend background applications for you.


    I thought iOS 11 was as poor in the performance department as Windows tablet mode. iOS 12 has restored my faith in the iOS, and indeed the style and interaction without a keyboard mouse is superior, but mainly because of performance, smoothness of animations, and responsiveness to gestures overall. iPad is about style, and of course, applications and simplicity (features I appreciate). It still lacks a desktop class web browser and an extensible file system.


    Windows 10 needs the same emphasis – focus less on feature creep, and spend a 6-12 month build focused purely on performance of the interface, especially in tablet mode. Perhaps they can’t get there, because as stated earlier, Windows isn’t allowed to randomly shut down or suspend background apps to ensure performance stays consistent.
    Drael646464 likes this.
    08-20-2018 07:53 AM
  18. DRDiver's Avatar
    Bottom line: Windows 8 was infinitely better for touch devices, and Microsoft cares absolutely NOTHING about making improvements to Windows 10 for touch devices. They're more intent on the whole inking aspect.
    Andrew G1 and SpinelessWonder like this.
    08-20-2018 07:53 AM
  19. overbored's Avatar
    Also - I don't get the OP's comment about "mobile browsers suck" - why can't you just use EDGE? Edge is a perfectly competent and battery friendly browser. I know folks prefer Chrome or Firefox (which still work fine, just not touch or gesture friendly) - but Edge is a pretty solid browser now (still needs work in a lot of ways for sure - YouTube mainly). Edge on a Surface is far more competent than Mobile Safari.
    Andrew G1 likes this.
    08-20-2018 07:57 AM
  20. overbored's Avatar
    Having used Windows 8 - but a while back - what did it have that Windows 10 doesn't have? I remember the "charms menu", but that's now app specific.

    I'm not sure there's any real merit to saying it was "infinitely better". But perhaps I'm missing a gaping capability since it's been 5 years since I last used Windows 8.
    08-20-2018 08:04 AM
  21. Richard Toft's Avatar
    I like windows 8 both on desktop and tablet (sorry just my personal opinion), I also like windows 10 and to be honest I think the compromise between tablet and desktop is just about right.
    I've no complaints with windows 10 tablet mode, would it be nice that tablet mode went to a more windows 8 experience, maybe but the transition may be a bit jarring, you'd have to try it to find out.
    08-20-2018 08:08 AM
  22. TechFreak1's Avatar
    Tablet mode is really lacking in Windows 10, Microsoft really struggles with balance don't they?

    As with windows 8 they got the tablet aspect almost perfect, still can't get over the idiocy of hiding the shut down button in the settings charm... of all places... LOL.

    But they really screwed up the desktop aspect and with windows 10 they screwed up the tablet aspect whilst getting the desktop aspect really good - it's still not perfect.

    @ochhanz when you can try running Windows 8 + 8.1 in vmware on a tablet or any 2 in 1, you will see the vast differences in terms of useability but anywhere else suchas a desktop pc or laptop with mouse and keyboard?
    not so much - it's a very, frustrating experience especially if you use a 40" TV as a monitor and every app opens full screen.

    Anyway, If they can bring all the good stuff from Windows 8 in terms of tablet features and gestures then incorporate that into Windows 10, then that would be a good place to start.

    Also they could have features from Windows Phone such as Rooms and Kids Corner - instead of axing them - another prime example why decision making on telemetry data is not the correct methodology.

    The way Surface Go was released was very odd, I think what happened was that there was internal shift and the Surface Go was on the verge of being cancelled so it was announced really off the cuff.

    Personally, anyone who was for cancelling the Surface Go is not seeing the bigger picture. Without a smaller and cheaper Surface you don't have any leverage point for anyone to create apps, experiences and create familiar experiences for the future gernations. But hardware is half of the solution, without software to enhance the experience it's just a paperweight.

    Most of us Windows because that is what we grew up with, heck we could have been using IBM's PS/2 if things didn't transpire they did in the past or even an O/S made by Xerox had they not been so shy about showing their GUI to the rest of the world.

    Plus those who are bashing the lowest end Surface Go for the incorrect reasons, imo are showing their true bias and therefore their opinion carries less weight as it's too heavily subjective. That is the silver lining for me as there is clear evidence of their bias thus anything they say has less weight than a feather and to counter balance that they will have literally prove they can be rational and objective.

    Which is a win-win scenario as we get better journalism, reviews, articles etc and these people learn valuable life skills in trying to objective. As a prosumer I am going to give more credence to someone who can be objective and share's their own views in a rational manner. As to presume no one has any form bias is just profoundly naive and subjectivity is key trait that defines one's personality as in the simplest sense - one we use to form opinions from.



    520 Kilograms.... bahahahahaha.
    Last edited by TechFreak1; 08-20-2018 at 08:55 AM.
    libra89 likes this.
    08-20-2018 08:25 AM
  23. Jcmg62's Avatar
    What's the point of a more mobile Surface if the Windows 10 tablet experience is still awful? I've had Windows 8 and Windows 10 tablets for years now, my last Windows 10 tablet was a cheap $100 NuVision and I wouldn't pay a penny more for it. Why? Because Windows 10 is just awful for using as a tablet. The keyboard sucks, autocorrect and suggestions suck, mobile browsers suck, absolutely terrible app selection that has been the bane of Windows mobile since Windows 8 came out. None of it has improved, nobody in their right mind would use a Windows 10 device as their primary tablet over iOS or Android.

    Having said that, I do like having full desktop features in an 8 inch device. I primarily use it for emulation. Second job is to stream movies from my media server, since it's easier to just connect and stream from the same network.

    Not saying that I dislike Windows. I love Windows, but as a desktop experience. As a tablet experience though, it's awful, has never worked well, and will never work well until it receives a complete overhaul to make it more mobile friendly. Until then, Windows tablets will always be just niche devices (like my NuVision) and will never compete at the same level as the iPad, nor will they ever have the same form factor/practicality as a cheap Chromebook (or even a cheap Windows laptop).
    I use my SP4 in tablet mode all the time and don't really mind it. That said, I appreciate and understand the concerns that many users have with tablet mode.

    I get the feeling that MS are really going to laser focus on tablet mode improvements now that the Surface Go is out.

    That machine is absolutely, 100% a tablet first and foremost, and is built and designed with tablet useage in mind. I'd imagine that they'll be throwing major resources at tablet mode improvements to ensure it does well.
    Andrew G1 and Fabrizzio Marco like this.
    08-20-2018 08:54 AM
  24. Martin Plamondon's Avatar
    Windows 10 tablet mode is a big step back compared to Windows 8.1 tablet mode. I barely use my Windows 10 tablet in tablet mode but mostly as a laptop connected to the keyboard because tablet mode sucks. They should bring back W8.1 tablet mode but keep the desktop as it is in Windows 10.
    08-20-2018 08:56 AM
  25. Richard Hart1's Avatar
    Why did you have to bring up the iPad. What about Android tablets? iOS and Android are much better and optimized on tablets than Windows 10 tablet mode.
    I hate win 10. I shouldn't have to hack an os to make it work. Between bloatware and forced updates to me it'vs useless out of the box. I have a plethora of freeware I use to debloat and nuke updates along with registry tweaks. Updates break more than they fix. I'm finished as far as any new machines. No money anyway. I shouldn't have to do all of this crap just to make it marginally acceptable.

    IOS is for rich kids. Never had one. Fixed income and poor.

    Android is a different story... I can customize the hell out of it and I root my devices so I can debloat and install adblockers. On Android I never see an ad in Chrome or in my apps. Only drawback is fugly apps that are not tablet optimized.
    08-20-2018 09:14 AM
47 12

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