Windows 10 still sucks as a tablet experience

[Richard Toft]

I like windows 8 both on desktop and tablet (sorry just my personal opinion), I also like windows 10 and to be honest I think the compromise between tablet and desktop is just about right.
I've no complaints with windows 10 tablet mode, would it be nice that tablet mode went to a more windows 8 experience, maybe but the transition may be a bit jarring, you'd have to try it to find out.

 

[TechFreak1]

Tablet mode is really lacking in Windows 10, Microsoft really struggles with balance don't they?

As with windows 8 they got the tablet aspect almost perfect, still can't get over the idiocy of hiding the shut down button in the settings charm... of all places... LOL.

But they really screwed up the desktop aspect and with windows 10 they screwed up the tablet aspect whilst getting the desktop aspect really good - it's still not perfect.

@ochhanz when you can try running Windows 8 + 8.1 in vmware on a tablet or any 2 in 1, you will see the vast differences in terms of useability but anywhere else suchas a desktop pc or laptop with mouse and keyboard?
not so much - it's a very, frustrating experience especially if you use a 40" TV as a monitor and every app opens full screen.

Anyway, If they can bring all the good stuff from Windows 8 in terms of tablet features and gestures then incorporate that into Windows 10, then that would be a good place to start.

Also they could have features from Windows Phone such as Rooms and Kids Corner - instead of axing them - another prime example why decision making on telemetry data is not the correct methodology.

The way Surface Go was released was very odd, I think what happened was that there was internal shift and the Surface Go was on the verge of being cancelled so it was announced really off the cuff.

Personally, anyone who was for cancelling the Surface Go is not seeing the bigger picture. Without a smaller and cheaper Surface you don't have any leverage point for anyone to create apps, experiences and create familiar experiences for the future gernations. But hardware is half of the solution, without software to enhance the experience it's just a paperweight.

Most of us Windows because that is what we grew up with, heck we could have been using IBM's PS/2 if things didn't transpire they did in the past or even an O/S made by Xerox had they not been so shy about showing their GUI to the rest of the world.

Plus those who are bashing the lowest end Surface Go for the incorrect reasons, imo are showing their true bias and therefore their opinion carries less weight as it's too heavily subjective. That is the silver lining for me as there is clear evidence of their bias thus anything they say has less weight than a feather and to counter balance that they will have literally prove they can be rational and objective.

Which is a win-win scenario as we get better journalism, reviews, articles etc and these people learn valuable life skills in trying to objective. As a prosumer I am going to give more credence to someone who can be objective and share's their own views in a rational manner. As to presume no one has any form bias is just profoundly naive and subjectivity is key trait that defines one's personality as in the simplest sense - one we use to form opinions from.

520 Kilograms.... bahahahahaha.

 

[Jcmg62]

What's the point of a more mobile Surface if the Windows 10 tablet experience is still awful? I've had Windows 8 and Windows 10 tablets for years now, my last Windows 10 tablet was a cheap $100 NuVision and I wouldn't pay a penny more for it. Why? Because Windows 10 is just awful for using as a tablet. The keyboard sucks, autocorrect and suggestions suck, mobile browsers suck, absolutely terrible app selection that has been the bane of Windows mobile since Windows 8 came out. None of it has improved, nobody in their right mind would use a Windows 10 device as their primary tablet over iOS or Android.

Having said that, I do like having full desktop features in an 8 inch device. I primarily use it for emulation. Second job is to stream movies from my media server, since it's easier to just connect and stream from the same network.

Not saying that I dislike Windows. I love Windows, but as a desktop experience. As a tablet experience though, it's awful, has never worked well, and will never work well until it receives a complete overhaul to make it more mobile friendly. Until then, Windows tablets will always be just niche devices (like my NuVision) and will never compete at the same level as the iPad, nor will they ever have the same form factor/practicality as a cheap Chromebook (or even a cheap Windows laptop).

I use my SP4 in tablet mode all the time and don't really mind it. That said, I appreciate and understand the concerns that many users have with tablet mode.

I get the feeling that MS are really going to laser focus on tablet mode improvements now that the Surface Go is out.

That machine is absolutely, 100% a tablet first and foremost, and is built and designed with tablet useage in mind. I'd imagine that they'll be throwing major resources at tablet mode improvements to ensure it does well.

 

[Martin Plamondon]

Windows 10 tablet mode is a big step back compared to Windows 8.1 tablet mode. I barely use my Windows 10 tablet in tablet mode but mostly as a laptop connected to the keyboard because tablet mode sucks. They should bring back W8.1 tablet mode but keep the desktop as it is in Windows 10.

 

[Richard Hart1]

Why did you have to bring up the iPad. What about Android tablets? iOS and Android are much better and optimized on tablets than Windows 10 tablet mode.

I hate win 10. I shouldn't have to hack an os to make it work. Between bloatware and forced updates to me it'vs useless out of the box. I have a plethora of freeware I use to debloat and nuke updates along with registry tweaks. Updates break more than they fix. I'm finished as far as any new machines. No money anyway. I shouldn't have to do all of this crap just to make it marginally acceptable.

IOS is for rich kids. Never had one. Fixed income and poor.

Android is a different story... I can customize the hell out of it and I root my devices so I can debloat and install adblockers. On Android I never see an ad in Chrome or in my apps. Only drawback is fugly apps that are not tablet optimized.

 

[Ear4Muzik]

If they could just copy much of how wp8 worked and voila.. Things would be better..

 

[Ear4Muzik]

I share your optimism as long as the Go keeps selling..

 

[TheNet Avenger]

I think we are all now dumber having read this. How does someone 'hate' something that in their own telling, they demonstrate they don't know what they are talking about?

8/8.1 better? People try to make-up or name touch features it had that Windows 10 doesn't, and besides the charms bar, that was replaced with the Action Center. Many comments that go with this, apparently never noticed all the Touch specific features from Windows 8 added back into Windows 10 since it was first released in 2015. (Complaining about a missing feature, that exists, sounds insane.)

Everyone also seems to not notice or skip over the array of touch features added to Windows 10 that are not available in 8/8.1. (Tons of Keyboard features including shape writing and dictation, an onscreen touchpad, less restricted snapping features, Pen features, better/richer touch friendly OS Apps, Win32 software adjustments for touch, spacing differences, and on and on and on.)

Then we see posts calling Windows 10 a bad Touch/Tablet OS? Compared to what? iOS? Android?

Windows 10 in Tablet mode has more 'touch' features and gestures than either iOS or Android. This experience increases if users stick to Tablet Mode and touch friendly Apps and Software. (As iOS and Android are LIMITED to this same class of Apps as well - you can't run a custom 3D modeling application on iOS or Android, so you can't complain if you have to use the onscreen touch pad or zoom when using it with touch on Windows 10.)

There are even advantages with regard to 'Tablet' and touch usage with Windows 10 over iOS and Android. (Too numerous to even start here.)

There is also enhanced functionality, like not being stuck in full screen Tablet Mode and having all software be able to Snap to run side by side or Windowed.

iOS and Android are both 'running' to get better at multi-tasking Apps on screen, and Windows has done this flawlessly forever, and snapping in Windows 10 isn't restricted or clunky. (It even works outside of Tablet Mode just fine.)


Even if users want to dig around in File Explorer, it can be configured to single touch and display icons just like iOS or Android. Seriously, go change the setting and poof, single click launching. Turn off the Navigation Pane and have Folders open in a new Window and turn on CheckBoxes - tada even if you never touch the start menu again, this better than Android or iOS for launching software and it does REAL file management without limitations.

The stuff I'm talking about is very basic and specific to Touch. Also with a pen, nothing is better than Windows, especially if you use handwriting recognition and want to use it in every piece of software ever written, even a command prompt.

There are also additional 'touch friendly' features - some exist in iOS or Android, and a lot that do not. These span a lot of topics, from Share to handling content/context/shortcuts/links to software, to documents and even to things inside documents and Apps that are a new paradigm past document models that are handy in touch environments. Instead iOS and Android break the document model and users are forced to use Apps to find documents and content - just like we were back in the 1970s. (Why, because Apple got lazy and Android copied.)

(I still miss making a Start Folder on my WM10 device, and pinning all the people associated with the project, web sites and references, and documents and assets used in the project - all on a phone - which still can't be replicated on iOS or Android to this day.)

You know what would have been a better post and what would be a great Article for WinCentral to write?
- Go over the touch features in Windows 10 and how to use them effectively, from someone that knows them better than Zac. Even compared and translate the touch usability features for people not used to touch and for people coming from Android and iOS with examples of - just like on iOS, you can do XYZ.

 

[pallentx]

I use tablet mode constantly and I think it's just fine. I would welcome further improvements, but I cant think of any "tablet features" iOS or Android have that windows needs. I haven't seen any specifics listed to explain what makes iOS or Android better for tablets. Please list specific features or behaviors if you want this to be useful discussion.

I loved Win8 charms, hidden menus, and tablet browser that put a lot of the UI off screen and hidden until needed. I also understand the challenges they brought to desktop users. Win10 is an acceptable compromise IMO. Edge has gestures, snap windows, left edge swipe multitasking, swipe to close apps, notification center are all great for tablets.

The article featuring this discussion mentioned the Taskbar, which is irrelevant in tablet mode.

 

[Hirox K]

Ios: I don't find it clear and am always searching for things I shouldn't have to search for. It also feels to restricted for me cause I cannot run Steam and Gog.

Pages of icons. Defaults to Apple's own software and are unchangeable. Cannot even switch AP directly from Quick Settings.
Very-pro-feature-lacking, pro-user-unfriendly tbh.

Android: lack of updates on the long term and sometimes slow security updates and freemium

Well... try Google's own devices if you must go for an Android.
OEMs tamper Android's API, which introduce inconsistent implementation. Also, the more you tamper it, the harder for you to update the OS.
* Like, if you mod a game engine, you should expect to have hard time updating it.
News said, some OEM increase OS version number without pushing anything to users.

Back to Win10. So far I'm ok operating Win10 with fingers only. I can adapt and I find my workarounds (or I hack it, enhance it) like I always do.
The only issue I have is with the win10 touch-keyboard. No ctrl on the SwiftKey mode for one...

I'm used to type using Swype on Android.
There's a ctrl key. And if you swipe from ctrl to a/x/c/v... explanatory. It's fast and convenient.
Swipe from ctrl to 5 (or around T) to switch to numpad mode.
Swipe from ctrl to shift to switch to arrow key (with some additional keys / controls) mode.
And not just English but Chinese (all sorts of typping methods) and Japanese support swipe-typing-method (SwiftKey calls it "Flow").
1) I'm familiar with 101 keyboard layout, 2) I don't freaking want to learn the 9 grid Japanese typing method, so this is seriously a life saving.
Alone with many lilo details, Swype, is a REALLY GOOD SW KB.
I hope SwiftKey can adapt all those features....

 

[kingtigre]

Everything Zac mentioned in his previous video about Tablet mode is absolutely valid. That being said, I still use Tablet mode as my default for my Surface. I like it well enough.

My one biggest gripe about tablet mode is that you can't snap apps vertically in portrait mode. Why have the ability to rotate a device without giving that ability?

 

[caseyman1]

It's better than windows 8 so they're going in the right direction. Still, they have a long way to go.

 

[smartass1379]

I'll just add my two cents. I loved the tablet experience on 8.1 I think that is what it should be in windows 10 tablet mode... They have ignored 'tablet' mode consecutively since moving away from the tablet UI. I'm hoping with this common core OS/ Andromeda project they will get more write in UX depending on how the device is being used.

 

[GinkgoRecords]

For the most part I love the tablet mode on Windows 10 I only wish that the file explorer was more touch friendly.

 

[ochhanz]

@ochhanz when you can try running Windows 8 + 8.1 in vmware on a tablet or any 2 in 1, you will see the vast differences in terms of useability but anywhere else suchas a desktop pc or laptop with mouse and keyboard?
not so much - it's a very, frustrating experience especially if you use a 40" TV as a monitor and every app opens full screen.

, I never really tried win8 and 8.1, I skipped over them from win7 to win10 (mostly because at the time I did not have a win tablet, only non-touch laptop and desktop). I just use gestureSign to add some gestures, which not perfect does allow quite a bit (the only thing I miss is a way to slide away /close apps in task view, without having to press that tiny x everytime). Also would be nice if tablet mode had its own seperate scaling (to make stuff like buttons bigger).

For the most part I love the tablet mode on Windows 10 I only wish that the file explorer was more touch friendly.

, yeah, for me accidentally moving a folder in some other folder is a bit annoying (also has happened with me with the touchpad once or twice)

 

[anon(9710967)]

I never turn on Tablet mode even when I'm trying to use my Surface as a tablet

 

[Brett Watters]

My major grips about Windows 10 in tablet mode is the on-screen keyboard.

a) It often never shows up when I enter an input field. Often forcing me to click back and forth (if there are multiple) fields trying to cox is out. Usually, I give up and press the keyboard icon on the task bar.

b) Even when the keyboard comes up... it often hides the input field -- or fields around it. In Edge, I find myself closing the keyboard, zooming and panning, and then hoping I can open it in some way it won't obscure what I'm doing. Or detaching the keyboard and moving it elsewhere.

c) The keyboard often don't go away. Meaning even after you type in something, you can't see the OK button anymore and there is no way (other than the icon) to get rid of it.

d) Lots of apps (even UWP) force a ton of issues with the keyboard. Edge repeatedly zooms and unzooms as fields are selected, others has UI issues once the keyboard is taking up 1/3 of the screen -- such as scroll bars in large text fields not being visible and the scroll position jumping around. Many force you to switch to touch to get to other tabs, buttons, show submit error messages under the keyboard, etc.

e) Non-UWP are often hopeless. Entering values in tablets, editable combo-boxes, edit areas near the bottom or right of the screen, etc.

What is more troubling is that these existing in Windows 8 and were never fixed. I use my wife's iPad and I've never had an issue entering anything into any field.

 

[Monte Constable1]

Also - I don't get the OP's comment about "mobile browsers suck" - why can't you just use EDGE? Edge is a perfectly competent and battery friendly browser. I know folks prefer Chrome or Firefox (which still work fine, just not touch or gesture friendly) - but Edge is a pretty solid browser now (still needs work in a lot of ways for sure - YouTube mainly). Edge on a Surface is far more competent than Mobile Safari.

YouTube is Google's fault. There was an article from Ribino about it. Otherwise Edge is good. Lack of Google apps is always Google's fault.

 

[TechFreak1]

, I never really tried win8 and 8.1, I skipped over them from win7 to win10 (mostly because at the time I did not have a win tablet, only non-touch laptop and desktop). I just use gestureSign to add some gestures, which not perfect does allow quite a bit (the only thing I miss is a way to slide away /close apps in task view, without having to press that tiny x everytime). Also would be nice if tablet mode had its own seperate scaling (to make stuff like buttons bigger).

Windows 8 - when the initial bits where to released it was a dire experience on a laptop and PC as you had to pretend your screen was a few inches bigger than it was to activate the zonal features.

On a tablet it was really slick and really easy to use, all you had to do close an application was tap+hold the title bar then drag down. But on a desktop or laptop... it was cumbersome and the x to close applications came much later on. Plus It was jarring trying to use the file explorer - which would throw you back into the traditional desktop and then to open an application you had to go full screen. Which is one of the pain points of Windows RT as it shipped with Office - thus to use office you would have to use the normal desktop view.

The ability set the app list as the start button came later along with the ability to launch straight into desktop.

They were on the right path with the tablet UX but the desktop stuff... was almost none existent at first - heck even the right click context menu was lacking on the start screen.

The other slick features of windows 8's tablet features was the app switching, you could literally cycle through the apps by flicking left from the left hand side of the screen. Once you found the app you need, you could tap+hold the app and then dragged it to the left to create a thumbnail list of apps. Then you could drag another app onto the otherside of the screen.

All this could be done one handed if you have large enough hands that how slick the gestures were on Windows 8. On the flip side... the desktop side wow... the term lacklustre would be an understatement.

Never the less Windows 8 built upon the resource efficiency of Windows 7 and it ran pretty well on older hardware but... these older hardware did not have a touch screen so it never took off. Therefore Microsoft had to heavily back track and so that is essentially how ended with W10 with a lacklustre tablet UX.

 

[Drael646464]

YouTube is Google's fault. There was an article from Ribino about it. Otherwise Edge is good. Lack of Google apps is always Google's fault.

What's wrong with YouTube on edge? I don't see anything broken..