11-18-2015 08:52 PM
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  1. slysy's Avatar
    Have you all looked at the competing products such as the ones at the following link: Best Surface Pro 4 Alternatives ?

    On paper they look to have some nice features - Fanless processor with 8Gb RAM, 2 USB ports, USB typeC etc

    What does the Surface Pro 4 offer that these don't? I'm trying to decide what to get and trying to work out the pros/cons of these. Thanks!

    As an example the Dell XPS12 has Core M5 (fanless?) processor, 8Gb RAM and two USB typeC ports. What can the SP4 do that XPS12 cannot?
    11-15-2015 04:34 PM
  2. boltman2013's Avatar
    Windows Hello...surface pen,screen, bluetooth, DisplayPort, Fanless(m3) , build quality and at this point USB-C is not used so USB3 is better..plus likeley supported better down the road as its a Microsoft flagship device that critical to their Enterprise aspirations with Windows 10.

    Try to compare side by side you ill see the quality of the SP4 over the dell
    11-15-2015 04:46 PM
  3. badMojo69's Avatar
    I'll keep this short. Surface only has M3 and 4gig of ram in the fanless option.
    Everything else is surface all the way.
    11-15-2015 04:52 PM
  4. brianbrain's Avatar
    For me, the Surface stands above the rest due to its form factor. Good keyboard/touchpad experience, great tablet experience, and the ability to have either one at a moments notice without carrying separate accessories. It's a polished, thoughtfully designed device (at least the hardware is).
    11-15-2015 05:24 PM
  5. Hardcore1973's Avatar
    I have the SP4 and the Surface Book. The only one that I might get next that is not on the list is the Dell XPS 2nd Gen. Had the HP Spectre X360 Gen 2 but it was too heavy for my liking. Great machine tho. Using the SP4 now as my daily deal over the Surface Book.
    11-15-2015 05:41 PM
  6. m4600's Avatar
    What does the Surface Pro 4 offer that these don't? I'm trying to decide what to get and trying to work out the pros/cons of these. Thanks!
    For me personally, it's about the horse power: I need a powerful 2-in-1. And none of those even offer Core i5/i7 or 16GB RAM.
    11-15-2015 07:39 PM
  7. xandros9's Avatar
    Well, the Pro brings a very high level of fit and finish in a well-made and designed package. I was impressed with the Pro 2, the 4 is no different.

    Personally, I needed something laptop-first and was easier to repair so the Surface was out of the question.

    There's also many other potential devices that will work fine in place of the Surface, but hey, Surface.
    11-15-2015 07:48 PM
  8. onysi's Avatar
    copy cats are entering the market. Get on the bandwagon. Surface PRo 4.
    11-15-2015 08:00 PM
  9. ttsoldier's Avatar
    Have you all looked at the competing products such as the ones at the following link: Best Surface Pro 4 Alternatives ?

    On paper they look to have some nice features - Fanless processor with 8Gb RAM, 2 USB ports, USB typeC etc

    What does the Surface Pro 4 offer that these don't? I'm trying to decide what to get and trying to work out the pros/cons of these. Thanks!

    As an example the Dell XPS12 has Core M5 (fanless?) processor, 8Gb RAM and two USB typeC ports. What can the SP4 do that XPS12 cannot?
    I was actually looking at the XPS12.. When I saw it had no kickstand.. I changed my mind,.

    The surface pro 4 just feels so... Premium..
    11-16-2015 01:40 AM
  10. onysi's Avatar
    I was actually looking at the XPS12.. When I saw it had no kickstand.. I changed my mind,.

    The surface pro 4 just feels so... Premium..
    I still love tthis thing ddespite the issues it came with. Its really turning off a lot of new comers tho.
    11-16-2015 02:53 AM
  11. ioaniro's Avatar
    I'm not sure copy-cat is the right way to look at it, Microsoft had an idea of how Windows and the devices it runs on should look. They made the surface line pretty much like google did the nexus line, to show what it can be done. Getting all the great companies to make the new type of devices is what was supposed to happen no? Each device addresses someone's needs and now all you have to do is see which one is the best one for you.
    RichBrown68, xandros9 and Spr Cmd like this.
    11-16-2015 03:09 AM
  12. DavidinCT's Avatar
    Still the surface seems like the best option and at the price point sure, it hits the mark features for price but, when it comes down to budget, $200-300 cheaper is somethng a lot of people would LOOK at. Even if they end up with a Surface...

    Unless money is no object and then all the power to you...
    11-16-2015 09:08 AM
  13. WildKarrde's Avatar
    The Surface Pro line is like the Rolls Royce of tablets. It's premium in every way. Sure, some of the alternatives are really nice too, but so is a Cadillac or Mercedes. Some people swear up and down that their Mercedes is the nicest car in the world, as they trade their lease in every 2-4 years, whereas many people who own a Royce tend to keep them a long time.

    I can't believe Apple released the iPad Pro still using iOS, what a waste! I'm sure it will still sell, but I really don't know why. Over $1000 after buying the pen, and your hard drive (not expandable with MicroSD) is only 32 GB. And it still only runs phone apps! What a fleece job.

    The XPS has always been a nice line of hybrids, but never nice enough to get me to buy one. The hinge doesn't seem that special to me and while a 4k device is an amazing feat on such a small screen, I can't imagine it's necessary. The m5 processor probably gets better battery life, but has a weaker graphics processor. The XPS may be a great alternative for people considering the SP4 m3.

    I haven't seen the Spectre X2, but the kickstand seems a bit gimmicky, and I wonder how long it will be until it's worn out. Maybe it gets a better battery life, maybe not... nobody can really trust manufacturer figures. Tablet (and laptop) audio has never been that important to me. If I can hear it well, it passes. If I want high(er) quality audio, I'll use some nice headphones.

    Lenovo has always made a good laptop, and it seems the Miix 700 is no exception. It's a simple design, which means it's not going to break as easily. It's cheap, which is great, but it has no i processor options, which means worse graphics ability. Based on price, this is probably the best (or only) alternative on the list, IMHO.
    xandros9 likes this.
    11-16-2015 10:19 AM
  14. StevoPhilo's Avatar
    Surface Pen, Surface Pen, Surface Pen is all I can say. Nothing comes close to the functionality of it.
    11-16-2015 11:34 AM
  15. slysy's Avatar
    What sort of gpu difference are we talking about between the "i" models and the "m" models? Is it a big difference?
    11-16-2015 11:49 AM
  16. boltman2013's Avatar
    What sort of gpu difference are we talking about between the "i" models and the "m" models? Is it a big difference?
    capture8.png

    M better
    11-16-2015 12:02 PM
  17. ioaniro's Avatar
    Hmm that's not accurate, M is not better but the difference is minimal so M is better price/value:

    Graphics Intel Core m3-6Y30
    Intel HD 515 (24 EUs, 300-850 MHz)
    Intel Core i5-6300U
    Intel HD Graphics 520 (24 EUs, 300-1000 MHz)

    I think what you show is old gen i5 vs m3 in which case is accurate.
    xandros9 and zkyevolved like this.
    11-16-2015 12:27 PM
  18. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    I can't believe Apple released the iPad Pro still using iOS, what a waste! I'm sure it will still sell, but I really don't know why.
    People who use a tablet for anything more advanced than can be accomplished with the Surface (in tablet mode) or $50 Android tablet, understand the appeal.

    It is common and shortsighted to dismiss apps as being nothing more than app-ified front-ends to websites, but there are some advanced iOS apps that are used for content creation. These apps are optimized for touch and work very well.

    I own several generations of iPads (not the Pro though... too large, too limited, too expensive) and have managed to use them in a variety of scenarios that otherwise would've required a notebook or desktop PC. It is capable of some serious work in select use cases.

    Look. The Surface 2 (not the Pro 2, the 2... RT) is far more "pro" than the iPad Pro is. Connectivity and expandability far outshine what the iPad Pro is capable of. Amazing little device as a netbook/MS Office appliance. But absolutely lacking when used as a tablet. (it's so good for "pro" use that I ended up buying another one a year after I had traded one in)

    The Surface Pro line is not appreciably any better when used as a tablet. magnified desktop apps can be used in a pinch but make for a poor touch experience.

    If the quantity and quality of touch-optimized Modern UI apps came close to what is available for iOS, the show would be over. Microsoft would flat-out own the space.
    tennisfan#AC likes this.
    11-16-2015 01:50 PM
  19. WildKarrde's Avatar
    Click image for larger version. 

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    M better
    That's not really a fair comparison, nor is it relevant, as it is comparing the 4th generation i5 to the 6th generation m3. Here is a comparison of the 6th generation i5 available in the SP, and the 6th generation m5 available in most of the competition shown in the OP.
    Intel Core M 6Y54 vs Core i5-6300U

    Here's a comparison of the graphics chipset found on the two processors, The m5 comes with the HD 515 and the i5 comes with the HD 520.
    HD Graphics 515 Mobile compare HD Graphics 520 Mobile GPU

    As you can see from these comparisons, the i5 is the more power processor in both cases, and the m5 is the more energy efficient. So which one is the better processor depends on what you want,

    Though with my current power plan, my i5 is only using 2.5w of the 15w available to it, so I believe the i5 is the best of both worlds, with a little tweaking.
    11-16-2015 02:17 PM
  20. WildKarrde's Avatar
    People who use a tablet for anything more advanced than can be accomplished with the Surface (in tablet mode) or $50 Android tablet, understand the appeal.
    Nearly everything I use my SP4 for (while in tablet mode) is far more advanced than anything the iPad can do. I'm not saying all iPad apps suck, I'm just saying they are far too limited for serious productivity. To me, the iPad is a really cool toy, and I would definitely use it if I had one, but the lack of productivity does not justify the cost to me. So the idea of the iPad Pro is simply ludicrous, for the same reasons you quoted to not have one.
    11-16-2015 02:23 PM
  21. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    Nearly everything I use my SP4 for (while in tablet mode) is far more advanced than anything the iPad can do. I'm not saying all iPad apps suck, I'm just saying they are far too limited for serious productivity. To me, the iPad is a really cool toy, and I would definitely use it if I had one, but the lack of productivity does not justify the cost to me. So the idea of the iPad Pro is simply ludicrous, for the same reasons you quoted to not have one.
    What are some things that you do with the SP4 in tablet mode (i.e. using Modern UI apps) that is far more advanced than anything the iPad can do? I have already pointed out that using desktop apps in touch mode is not a desirable way of using a tablet.
    11-16-2015 02:31 PM
  22. WildKarrde's Avatar
    What are some things that you do with the SP4 in tablet mode (i.e. using Modern UI apps) that is far more advanced than anything the iPad can do? I have already pointed out that using desktop apps in touch mode is not a desirable way of using a tablet.
    Maybe using desktop apps in touch mode is not desirable for you, but I have absolutely no problem with it, so it's not fair to discredit desktop apps just because of your own preference.
    RichBrown68 likes this.
    11-16-2015 02:53 PM
  23. twe90kid's Avatar
    The Surface Pro line is like the Rolls Royce of tablets. It's premium in every way. Sure, some of the alternatives are really nice too, but so is a Cadillac or Mercedes. Some people swear up and down that their Mercedes is the nicest car in the world, as they trade their lease in every 2-4 years, whereas many people who own a Royce tend to keep them a long time.

    I can't believe Apple released the iPad Pro still using iOS, what a waste! I'm sure it will still sell, but I really don't know why. Over $1000 after buying the pen, and your hard drive (not expandable with MicroSD) is only 32 GB. And it still only runs phone apps! What a fleece job.

    The XPS has always been a nice line of hybrids, but never nice enough to get me to buy one. The hinge doesn't seem that special to me and while a 4k device is an amazing feat on such a small screen, I can't imagine it's necessary. The m5 processor probably gets better battery life, but has a weaker graphics processor. The XPS may be a great alternative for people considering the SP4 m3.

    I haven't seen the Spectre X2, but the kickstand seems a bit gimmicky, and I wonder how long it will be until it's worn out. Maybe it gets a better battery life, maybe not... nobody can really trust manufacturer figures. Tablet (and laptop) audio has never been that important to me. If I can hear it well, it passes. If I want high(er) quality audio, I'll use some nice headphones.

    Lenovo has always made a good laptop, and it seems the Miix 700 is no exception. It's a simple design, which means it's not going to break as easily. It's cheap, which is great, but it has no i processor options, which means worse graphics ability. Based on price, this is probably the best (or only) alternative on the list, IMHO.
    If that's the case, than the new VAIO Z could be considered the Pagani/Bugatti/Mclaren of cars.
    11-16-2015 02:58 PM
  24. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    Maybe using desktop apps in touch mode is not desirable for you, but I have absolutely no problem with it, so it's not fair to discredit desktop apps just because of your own preference.
    If you prefer a tablet use scenario from 1999/2000 more power to you.
    11-16-2015 03:09 PM
  25. WildKarrde's Avatar
    If that's the case, than the new VAIO Z could be considered the Pagani/Bugatti/Mclaren of cars.
    It seems it's still running on an older processor generation, but other than that, yeah, that looks like a pretty sweet setup!
    11-16-2015 03:13 PM
31 12

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