10-09-2013 02:56 PM
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  1. Jas00555's Avatar
    If Apple can charge $1000 for a MBAir with 720p resolution 11-Inch NON-TOUCH Screen, 4th Gen i5, 128GB SSD and 4GB RAM is the SP2 with 10.6 1080p TOUCH-SCREEN, 4th Gen i5, 128GB SSD, 4GB RAM for $1000 really expensive???
    Well technically you would have to list a keyboard as a pro for the MBA because that $1000 doesn't get you a physical keyboard. Otherwise the SP2 is $1129.

    I'm still getting the SP2 over any Mac any day, but still....
    09-30-2013 12:03 AM
  2. Ridemyscooter86's Avatar
    CNET is pretty much a joke now however there continue to be serious issues with Microsoft branding, features and pricing for the surface.

    First. Sell the Surface as simply the Surface. No RT. No Surface 2. Just Surface. You can differentiate generations, (like the Nexus 7), but that's it. Market the Surface as a TABLET. A very flexible and capable TABLET. Not a hybrid, not a laptop, a TABLET.

    Design wise go for thin and light all the time and everytime. Period.

    Bundle the type cover with the 32gig tablet and price it at a flat $400. Period. It would instantly be serious competition in the TABLET space as long as they continue to flesh out the app ecosystem.

    Finally. Scrap the pro. The Pro is a joke of a device. You can easily spend almost $2000 for a spec'd -out Surface Pro with all the accessories. That's ridiculous considering the laptops available now that run Windows.

    Microsoft has good engineers but couldn't sell ice cubes to a room full of Eskimos.
    I'm sorry to say this, but you seem to have no clue about engineering or business whatsoever. Explain to me hoe they are going to make a tablet that runs on an intel atom for 400 and give you a keyboard with it, and make the product out of metal too? In business there is this thing called MARGIN, and you sell products to MAKE MONEY. At 400$ with 32Gb memory and an intel atom and a 1080p screen with a keyboard and a body made out of metal, they would make close to nothing on the tablet. Also, please explain to me how an i5 in a tablet is supposed to be as thin as an ARM or intel based tablet that only requires passive cooling, please, do explain that to me.

    Also, explain to me how the surface pro is over priced. It is around the same price as any other product with its specifications, I mean look at the macbook air, for example, for around the same price, 999$ for the air and 920$ for the surface pro with the type keyboard, you get pretty much the same processor as the air, same amount of ram, same SSD space, better screen than the air with touchscreen and stylus, same size as the air (more or less, smaller but a little thicker than the air), and with the battery cover, you get around the same battery life. So how is this overpriced when it comes to the feature parity, is nearly identical and beats out the air in a couple of aspects?
    09-30-2013 12:06 AM
  3. Steven Curl's Avatar
    I'm sorry to say this, but you seem to have no clue about engineering or business whatsoever. Explain to me hoe they are going to make a tablet that runs on an intel atom for 400 and give you a keyboard with it, and make the product out of metal too? In business there is this thing called MARGIN, and you sell products to MAKE MONEY. At 400$ with 32Gb memory and an intel atom and a 1080p screen with a keyboard and a body made out of metal, they would make close to nothing on the tablet. Also, please explain to me how an i5 in a tablet is supposed to be as thin as an ARM or intel based tablet that only requires passive cooling, please, do explain that to me.

    Also, explain to me how the surface pro is over priced. It is around the same price as any other product with its specifications, I mean look at the macbook air, for example, for around the same price, 999$ for the air and 920$ for the surface pro with the type keyboard, you get pretty much the same processor as the air, same amount of ram, same SSD space, better screen than the air with touchscreen and stylus, same size as the air (more or less, smaller but a little thicker than the air), and with the battery cover, you get around the same battery life. So how is this overpriced when it comes to the feature parity, is nearly identical and beats out the air in a couple of aspects?
    Not sure where you got that the Surface 2 is an Atom, but it's actually a Tegra 4, which reduces the cost. He's right, consumers don't care about your margins, and playing catchup means sacrifices in the short term. Saturate the market with something as high quality as the surface 2, then worry about how to leverage that market share.
    09-30-2013 12:11 AM
  4. Ridemyscooter86's Avatar
    no, I didn't say that the surface 2 was an atom, He said to ditch RT, so the only way to do that AND make the tablet thin AND keep it around 400$ would be to put in an atom, that would be the only way.
    09-30-2013 12:18 AM
  5. stephen_az's Avatar
    I don't understand why people keep saying the SP2 is expensive. I've been looking for a new laptop and every comparable ultrabook is priced similar to the SP2 w/ keyboard.
    We are obviously not looking at the same Ultrabooks. Surface Pro 2 is absolutely overpriced - everything above the 128GB model is significantly higher than almost all first and second generation hybrids. I own, for instance, a Dell XPS 12 with 8GB of RAM, I7 processor, and 256 GB hard drive, and with Dell's almost perpetual discount codes, it cost me about $1000. If you check Lenovo's products you would see the same thing. Even if list prices are about the same, there are always discounts whereas with Microsoft's products the only discounts will be for students. The difference is even greater for straight up ultrabooks, as opposed to hybrids. It may be a nice machine, but the price is very difficult to defend. I also find a Microsoft exec referring to Surface Pro as really a PC to be quite incredulous (bordering on insulting). It is a tablet form factor and a keyboard is a rather pricey add on. Until they bundle the thing with a keyboard, it is being sold as a vey expensive tablet.
    09-30-2013 01:07 AM
  6. stephen_az's Avatar
    Try this: Compare Microsoft's Surface to the iPad

    Comparing the Surface Pro to the iPad can get pretty ugly, says CNET's Brooke Crothers. And he's not even talking about the design.
    Surface Pro 2. It's bigger, thicker, heavier than the iPad. Oh yeah, it's more expensive too


    SUMMARY from Brooke Cothers of CNET:
    * Surface Pro is ugly
    * Surface Pro is poor compared to the ipad
    * Surface Pro is a laptop, not a tablet
    * Surface Pro is bigger, heavier, and more expensive than the iPad
    * Surface 2 sucks too, because it doesn't use Bay Trail.
    * Things are just going to get worse for Microsoft in the coming months
    * Buy an iPad, duh!

    That makes it 3 different writers in a month that have slagged off on Microsoft products with nonsensical, misleading, and outright incorrect reasoning.

    Try this: Compare Microsoft's Surface to the iPad | Microsoft - CNET News

    This website is a joke. Does anyone know of a more evenhanded tech website?
    You are reading an op-ed piece by an avowed user of Apple products, What were you expecting the person to say? If you were to ead an op-ed piece written by a republican member of congress are you expecting them to praise the Affordable Care Act?
    rdubmu likes this.
    09-30-2013 01:12 AM
  7. stephen_az's Avatar
    its a laptop with tablet capabilities, that's the way I see it. I agree the marketing needs work, seems the latest pro 2 ads do a better job of the market they're targeting. And I agree its expensive...but what it offers is unique and a productive move forward for the industry...its a hope that OEMs see the potential with this type of device. MS isn't going to sell a very high quality product at cheap...if you think the Pro isn't a quality product than I'd like to know what is...especially at $1000. People make it seem like the device is $2500..
    How many laptops have you seen that are sold without a keyboard?
    09-30-2013 01:17 AM
  8. chezm's Avatar
    How many laptops have you seen that are sold without a keyboard?
    from what I know none...im not disagreeing in that the basic keyboard should come bundled. Still its a pc/laptop, not a tablet. I can't agree of your point is stating since the keyboard is separate its really a 'tablet' cause that's false. I agree it would be nice to have it more aggressively price...but the build should also be considered, compared to a majority of laptops I demo at stores are plastic and flimsy.

    Again, yes I agree it should come with the basic touch key standard.
    Last edited by chezm; 09-30-2013 at 08:52 AM.
    09-30-2013 02:50 AM
  9. Chregu's Avatar
    I also don't see why Microsoft built another ARM Surface instead of one with an Atom. Maybe they just try to prove they were right with RT, even though they are only ones believing this, even after almost a Billion of loss.

    Personally I also don't see why somebody should choose the very expensive Surface Pro 2 over a similar but cheaper touch screen laptop.

    So I have the same opinion as this guy with the poorly written article. A Surface Atom really would have interested me, but I don't care a bit about the Surface RT 2 or the Pro 2.
    09-30-2013 07:08 AM
  10. slowboy920's Avatar
    We are obviously not looking at the same Ultrabooks. Surface Pro 2 is absolutely overpriced - everything above the 128GB model is significantly higher than almost all first and second generation hybrids. I own, for instance, a Dell XPS 12 with 8GB of RAM, I7 processor, and 256 GB hard drive, and with Dell's almost perpetual discount codes, it cost me about $1000. If you check Lenovo's products you would see the same thing. Even if list prices are about the same, there are always discounts whereas with Microsoft's products the only discounts will be for students. The difference is even greater for straight up ultrabooks, as opposed to hybrids. It may be a nice machine, but the price is very difficult to defend. I also find a Microsoft exec referring to Surface Pro as really a PC to be quite incredulous (bordering on insulting). It is a tablet form factor and a keyboard is a rather pricey add on. Until they bundle the thing with a keyboard, it is being sold as a vey expensive tablet.
    Of course there are cheaper alternatives. As others have stated, what you get from the SP2, isn't available on other ultrabooks. SP2 is a premium product and the cost isn't that outrageous. I've thought about other ultrabooks, but need pen input for taking notes. What other ultrabooks give me that option? Innovation isn't cheap
    09-30-2013 07:31 AM
  11. Chregu's Avatar
    Of course there are cheaper alternatives. As others have stated, what you get from the SP2, isn't available on other ultrabooks. SP2 is a premium product and the cost isn't that outrageous. I've thought about other ultrabooks, but need pen input for taking notes. What other ultrabooks give me that option? Innovation isn't cheap
    First of all, a tablet with pen input can hardly be called an innovation. Neither can be an Ultrabook without a keyboard. I don't see why the combination should change this.

    If the Pro 2 is the perfect fit for you, we are all very glad for you. But I think Microsoft should be more interested in the interest of the majority of people.
    09-30-2013 07:34 AM
  12. slowboy920's Avatar
    First of all, a tablet with pen input can hardly be called an innovation. Neither can be an Ultrabook without a keyboard. I don't see why the combination should change this.

    If the Pro 2 is the perfect fit for you, we are all very glad for you. But I think Microsoft should be more interested in the interest of the majority of people.
    Different products for different consumers. This is a tech site and obviously we are not the majority no matter which side we are on price. Any laptop can get the job done. Some are willing to pay a premium for a premium product. If the price is too much move on to a different product just like anything else in life. People can disagree on price but the the joy of being a consumer, you have other options.
    chezm likes this.
    09-30-2013 08:17 AM
  13. eugie's Avatar
    CNET is big apple fans not Android or windows
    09-30-2013 08:40 AM
  14. chezm's Avatar

    Personally I also don't see why somebody should choose the very expensive Surface Pro 2 over a similar but cheaper touch screen laptop.
    What laptops have similar specs to Pro 2 that are cheaper?
    09-30-2013 08:58 AM
  15. chezm's Avatar

    If the Pro 2 is the perfect fit for you, we are all very glad for you. But I think Microsoft should be more interested in the interest of the majority of people.
    There has to be plans for MS if Surface Pro delivers and is considered a success to the specific niche they're targeting, that they build models for the general consumer. iPad didn't originally launch at the price it is now did it? And now it comes in multiple versions. I just think Surface will take off in time, its a product line that will grow and target a bigger market as it gets popular. Thats just a hopeful opinion.
    09-30-2013 09:05 AM
  16. thecaringkind's Avatar
    MS is slightly misguided if they think that they will turn a profit with Surface. As they are designed, marketed and priced margins included they simply will not sell enough to make an impact.

    You have the Surface Pro that isn't a tablet. It's a PC, (Microsoft 's words not mine), too heavy to be a tablet and too expensive to compete with plenty of laptops that run 8.1 with more capable chipsets. What makes anyone think that MS will sell enough of the Pro to really make an impact?

    As far as the Surface 2 is concerned you still have a fine tablet that has a severely limited app ecosystem, an outstanding keyboard that makes the tablet extremely capable and versatile but you price it comparable to the industry leader in the tablet space. That formula is simply not enough to gain market or mindshare. The device is not compelling enough to make a significant impact in the tablet space.

    People want tablets for CONSUMPTION . If you want to throw in productivity then you'd better package the keyboard and price it super aggressively as in under $500 to give the average consumer STRONG reason to veer away from the standard bearer and its huge app ecosystem.
    jlzimmerman likes this.
    09-30-2013 09:27 AM
  17. Jas00555's Avatar
    MS is slightly misguided if they think that they will turn a profit with Surface. As they are designed, marketed and priced margins included they simply will not sell enough to make an impact.

    You have the Surface Pro that isn't a tablet. It's a PC, (Microsoft 's words not mine), too heavy to be a tablet and too expensive to compete with plenty of laptops that run 8.1 with more capable chipsets. What makes anyone think that MS will sell enough of the Pro to really make an impact?

    As far as the Surface 2 is concerned you still have a fine tablet that has a severely limited app ecosystem, an outstanding keyboard that makes the tablet extremely capable and versatile but you price it comparable to the industry leader in the tablet space. That formula is simply not enough to gain market or mindshare. The device is not compelling enough to make a significant impact in the tablet space.

    People want tablets for CONSUMPTION . If you want to throw in productivity then you'd better package the keyboard and price it super aggressively as in under $500 to give the average consumer STRONG reason to veer away from the standard bearer and its huge app ecosystem.
    as I have previously stated in this thread, Microsoft does NOT want to sell a lot of these. Sure they would like to, but if everyone bought one of these as opposed to other computers on the market, then Dell or HP or any other PC maker would go out of business or worse, go to Android.
    09-30-2013 09:34 AM
  18. chezm's Avatar

    People want tablets for CONSUMPTION . If you want to throw in productivity then you'd better package the keyboard and price it super aggressively as in under $500 to give the average consumer STRONG reason to veer away from the standard bearer and its huge app ecosystem.
    Fair enough, people want TABLETS for consumption....i agree with you. People who buy a Pro are not strictly using for consumption.

    I have a Nexus, I find tablets absolutely useless since my phone does a great job of consumption. I would personally say the same about Surface RT/2, its a useless utility for me.

    PRO is something I've been waiting years for, and yes its offered in different variations by different OEMs. However MSs product is designed in a way that better suits my needs.
    Cleavitt76 likes this.
    09-30-2013 09:44 AM
  19. Bartdog's Avatar
    Not surprised considering half their staff quit due to the whole 'Hopper' fiasco that happened a few months back. Pretty much killed any credibility CNET had left in my mind.
    I had never heard this story before. Funny line is where it lists all the things they DID endorse, like the Creative Zen vision M. I had two of those pieces of crap, one for me and one for the wife. Mine died just outside of warranty and the wife's died some time later. Not sure because she quit using it.

    [edit] see, I've been an apple-avoider for some time now [/edit]
    09-30-2013 09:55 AM
  20. dc9super80's Avatar
    As an Apple user I think the Surface Pro competes with the MBAir and not the iPad. In fact, before I bought my current MBAir my first choice was a Surface Pro (if considered an ultrabook it is probably the best ultrabook out there) but it was not available in my country. An iPad is an entirely other category. IMHO.
    chezm, Daylife and jlzimmerman like this.
    09-30-2013 10:07 AM
  21. unstoppablekem's Avatar
    Wifi filter where I am blocks the comments. Can someone send screenshots of a lot of the comments so I can laugh?
    09-30-2013 10:38 AM
  22. davidD93's Avatar
    A bit of a comparison here between the CNET UK and US site.
    Lumia 520/1 - 4 UK, 3US
    Lumia 620 - 4.5 UK, 3 US
    Lumia 625 - 3.5 UK, 3 US
    Lumia 820 - 3.5 UK, 3.5 UK
    Lumia 920 - 4 UK, 4 US
    Lumia 925 - 4 UK, 4 US

    Some of them are admittedly equal in the UK and US, but none of them are rated higher on the US site, especially the 620!! I fail to understand the 1.5 star difference.
    09-30-2013 10:40 AM
  23. davidD93's Avatar
    Wifi filter where I am blocks the comments. Can someone send screenshots of a lot of the comments so I can laugh?
    I haven't read all of the comments (too many), but a large proportion are claiming one or more of the following:

    Not a fair test (ipad users agreeing with this statement)
    ridiculous article
    biased article
    I don't trust CNET anymore
    etc

    I only read one comment from a clear apple fanboy who proposed completely ridiculous statements, and has been corrected by a few about how ridiculous his statements were.
    unstoppablekem likes this.
    09-30-2013 10:53 AM
  24. unstoppablekem's Avatar
    I haven't read all of the comments (too many), but a large proportion are claiming one or more of the following:

    Not a fair test (ipad users agreeing with this statement)
    ridiculous article
    biased article
    I don't trust CNET anymore
    etc

    I only read one comment from a clear apple fanboy who proposed completely ridiculous statements, and has been corrected by a few about how ridiculous his statements were.
    I didn't think It could get any worse after Molly Wood's 1020 video. I thought wrong.
    09-30-2013 10:55 AM
  25. Jas00555's Avatar
    Wifi filter where I am blocks the comments. Can someone send screenshots of a lot of the comments so I can laugh?
    To sum it up:

    1) people claiming the author(term used loosely) makes love to his Apple products at night
    2) people saying they're never going to visit CNET again
    3) people yelling at CNET for its clear bias
    4) Apple fans trying to defend it, but gather no support (as shown by the fact that the pro-surface pro comments gather on average 7+ likes while the anti-surface pro comments have about 3 total between all of them
    5) misc - one guy said he's blocking all ads on CNET using adblock. Another guy emailed the editor-in-chief claiming "this has to stop"


    Edit: 6) many many many people trying to understand the "author's" logic when he says that the iPad is more functional than the Surface because the Surface can't run legacy Windows application. Cause you know... The iPad can totally run OS X applications which is why its better, obviously because you know.... Obviously, cause obviously
    Last edited by Jas00555; 09-30-2013 at 12:05 PM.
    unstoppablekem, chezm and WinFan1 like this.
    09-30-2013 11:30 AM
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