Lumia 1020 successor

[Moiz Mian]

I think they are still kind of far off mass production, but yes... along with their work on this

Nokia patent shows “Graphene” based imaging sensor already being worked on!!

it might be the next "leap" in imaging

I am just talking about what they can do with what's currently available.. they can improve on the 1020 for sure.



True, but the overhead won't be as much and that can help with the speed of the camera. I am guessing that having better video processing might be able to help with the oversampling.. as it stands its not as good as the original pureview device.

Obviously they worked closely with Qualcomm to make that old s4 deal with the demands of the 41mpix sensor and oversampling, which means that they can do the same with the 800 and achieve better results.

I still don't know why they didn't use the system from the 808 which incorporates a separate imaging chip inside the sensor which deals with most of the processing. I mean.. the 808 runs on some sort of ancient 512 RAM and operating the camera feels faster than the 1020 for the most part.. it makes absolutely no sense.

I think both of their previous cameraphones used Broadcom chips. I just feel that this camera kind of requires its own custom hardware to fully exploit the capabilities.


I've seen that being said around the web and I am really not sure where it started.. yes, the camera might need more RAM to run, but non of it specifically relocated for that one single purpose, at all times. I don't even know if that is possible..

I agree, I think a dedicated imaging processor would be the best solution. My theory is that windows phone doesn't support that, which is why it wasn't used. But yea, using a snapdragon 800 will definitely work better than the S4. Any idea what the max camera capability is with the Tegra 4? They are getting LTE soon, and I remember they had a roadmap and were planning on working with windows phone at some point.

 

[AngryNil]

No lags here. It might take longer to take a picture than the Z1 but that's not taking 2 pictures and using oversampling.

So, you're admitting it's slower and could do with better internals, which is what the OP is asking for. I agree with Moiz above, I don't see why Nokia didn't go for a DSP.

 

[maverick786us]

I think it's easier to make the phone thinner.

I think 9 inch is enough. Thinner devices don't have a good speaker quality. I am still waiting for Nokia to deliver a device that will have dual speakers, and the speakers as loud as Nokia N95

 

[maverick786us]

Is 1020 an 808 successor? There is a lot of debate on that. Some people say it is an 808 successor, some people say, its not. Its just an enhancement over 808 by making it thinner, implementing it in windows and implementing OIS. We can't forget the fact that 808 has a bigger sensor than 1020.

Similarly if Nokia releases a device which has the same camera capabilities as 1020, but upgraded hardware like
1) Quad Core Snapdragon 800 processor
2) Bigger 5-6 inch screen with 1080P display

I am lest bothered about thickness. 9 inch is sufficient, as I don't want the speaker / music quality to be compromised because of thickness, just like the way iPhone 5 has compromised music quality over iPhone 4s by making it thin.

 

[Huime]

A removable battery is one of those "Better to have it and not need it rather then need it and not have it" features. All it takes is for a battery to go bad 2 weeks after the warrenty expires for consumers to realize how important that little tid-bit is....

Dude, 2 weeks is your return period. Nokia standard warranty last for 6-12mo depending on where it is sold. And if it needs a fix, it is certainly replaceable. What you are asking is a hot swap, which by today's standard, a lightweight power bank is way more practical.

 

[lippidp]

Dude, 2 weeks is your return period. Nokia standard warranty last for 6-12mo depending on where it is sold. And if it needs a fix, it is certainly replaceable. What you are asking is a hot swap, which by today's standard, a lightweight power bank is way more practical.

This is just FYI. "Hot swap" means replacing the battery while the computer remains powered on with no interruption whatsoever. In this case we would call it a "user-replaceable battery."

 

[vlad0]

I blame the carriers for the smaller sensor in the 1020.. they are the ones who pushed Nokia to make the 41Mpix deal thinner, which is why we have a weaker xenon flash, a smaller senor, and compromised optics.. by that I mean there is more softness towards the edge of the frame compared to the 808. With the current imaging tech, you simply need more room for better imaging.

I am really hoping that Microsoft can take a different approach to this and not care what the carriers want. Just go Nexus on them and release the camera flagship unlocked/no subsidies .. I will buy it directly from the Microsoft Store.

Just give me

1" sensor (don't care about the mpix count, but I have to admit that they've done a brilliant job with that massive pixel density in the 808/1020)
a fat xenon flash
good optics
3000 mah user replaceable battery
4.5 incher with very thin bazel
SD card slot


I really don't care about the size of the phone.. it would be a device for true enthusiasts, kind of like 808.

I agree, I think a dedicated imaging processor would be the best solution. My theory is that windows phone doesn't support that, which is why it wasn't used. But yea, using a snapdragon 800 will definitely work better than the S4. Any idea what the max camera capability is with the Tegra 4? They are getting LTE soon, and I remember they had a roadmap and were planning on working with windows phone at some point.

Like most things in the software realm.. its not that it doesn't support it, its the fact that someone needs to write the code needed for that support. So, I doubt that windows NT can't support a dedicated DSP, there might be some latency issues, but again.. given enough time they are very likely to make it work.

In this case I think it was all about "time to market" so they went with a modified S4 instead of what they did with the 808.

a lightweight power bank is way more practical.

I disagree. I've tried both and I have to say that being able to swap batteries on the go is much better.. especially if you are out for a photo shoot. I tried the external battery thing once .. its really awkward to take pictures with a cable hanging of the phone.

Here is my mini photo kit .. plenty of batteries to play with. And overall I think I am ready to wait this one out and see what's next

1X Nokia 808 PureView
3X original back covers, all colors. Good change of pace when you get bored.
3X original BV-4D batteries. Very good for camping, traveling, or emergency power needs.
2X original BL-4D batteries. These are from the N8 but they work fine. Total.. that's about a week worth of shooting
1X aftermarket battery charger
1X Jobi tripod
1X Nokia tripod mount
1X Nokia case
1X Canon neck strap, tied to the case so that I can carry it around my neck.
3X original Nokia wrist straps
3X 67mm filters (UV, PL, FLD) I usually just hold them in front of the lens.

Is 1020 an 808 successor?

Its all relative, but in terms of imaging.. I don't see it as such. Things are looking better with the expected Lumia Black algorithms and RAW support, but even then I am still not sold on it. The smaller sensor and the edge softness bug me..

 

[Muessig]

Given that the 1020 was going to be called the 909 pretty much right until launch, we can safely call the 1020 the successor. Whether you deem its internals to be good enough or needing updating is an entirely different matter.

 

[chobits]

Its the same generation. the screen size is same, the resolution is same. The same boring dual core processor, which within an year or 2 will start showing its age. I would rather consider 1520 an upgrade over 920.

Actually it's pretty simple
If you love photography, you'll get 1020 no matter how old ... wait ... i don't see why 1020 needs quadcore
Just like the iphone, does it need quadcore?
Nope, the OS is already splendid.

Reasons to upgrade to 1020:
1. camera
2. camera
3. the camera again
4. omg it's the camera
5. 41mp vs 9mp
6. Optical image stabilizer, you'll come to appreciate this technology

So yeah, the only reason people want 1020 is the camera
End of story

 

[sdc1]

It's interesting to see the Android mindset being dragged in and applied to a Windows Phone. The 1020 works just fine, I don't care if it doesn't have the latest quad core processor or a 1080p display. It runs smoothly and looks great and for me that's enough. The fact that I have a smartphone in my pocket with a 41 megapixel camera is incredible. The people wishing for quad core processors etc will obviously never be happy unless they have the best specced phone available. It's all nonsense.

 

[vlad0]

It's interesting to see the Android mindset being dragged in and applied to a Windows Phone. The 1020 works just fine, I don't care if it doesn't have the latest quad core processor or a 1080p display. It runs smoothly and looks great and for me that's enough. The fact that I have a smartphone in my pocket with a 41 megapixel camera is incredible. The people wishing for quad core processors etc will obviously never be happy unless they have the best specced phone available. It's all nonsense.

Its not about the OS... WP runs fine on dual core/1gb ram

In this case its all about the camera, and a Snap 800 SoC would help the camera performance greatly.

 

[Huime]

This is just FYI. "Hot swap" means replacing the battery while the computer remains powered on with no interruption whatsoever. In this case we would call it a "user-replaceable battery."

Which is exactly what this guy ultimately wants. And for that reason a powerbank serve the purpose of charging the phone why it is "hot".

 

[Tech friend]

Well, if you don't mind a thicker and larger phone, why not? However, look at the latest 1520. With such big size of a phone, it can easily fit a big sensor just like 1020. But instead, they are going for the middle class Pureview like 925. This trend tells us that Nokia will not be investing so much time with a niche sensor like 1020 anymore. From what I see, Windows Phone is very hard to pick itself up against other much more matured OSes out there. Hence, it will need another platform or different device form factors to bring Windows Phone to a higher level. And that will be tablets. MS and Nokia will focus more on their integration and apps between the devices, along with the back end ecosystem.

Frankly speaking, we already know how good Pureview is with all the non-stop promotions and adverts from Nokia. Is getting stale already. Is time for MS - Nokia to pick up some steam and push the products to a highly level, but not via the camera way.

Just my 2cents.

I see the 1520's less powerful camera more as a result of a marketing strategy than as an indication for Nokia's turning away from what you are calling a niche sensor: Intended to be seen as a premium phablet, the 1520 needed a good camera on the one hand, but I think Nokia wanted to avoid to let it compete against the 1020 in terms of its camera specs.

I agree that WP isn't as powerful as iOS or Android. But from my point of view this is exactly the reason why MS/Nokia do need devices like the 1020 and improved successors which show the competitors what they are made of:

The 1020's outstanding feature is the camera and it is that outstanding camera everyone is reporting/speaking about - and it is this discussion that generates a high level attention that helps the company to sell devices in the medium range and below. But of course my 'analysis' may be wrong and yours be right, chmun77.

FWIW: The latest smartphone sales data from Kantar Worldpanel ComTech (pdf, 290 KB).

 

[Tech friend]

I think they are still kind of far off mass production, but yes... along with their work on this

Nokia patent shows ?Graphene? based imaging sensor already being worked on!!

it might be the next "leap" in imaging

This is something completely new to me, so thank you for that link, vlad0.

 

[jhoff80]

I don't know how possible it is, but I think it would be kind of cool if a 1020 successor had an automatic lens cover like point and shoot cameras have. I'm constantly concerned about touching the lens or scratching it accidentally (more concerned than I am about the screen, to be honest).

I would think that if they're able to make a mechanical shutter that small, it wouldn't be that much more difficult to do a similar lens cover.

 

[Tech friend]

I don't know how possible it is, but I think it would be kind of cool if a 1020 successor had an automatic lens cover like point and shoot cameras have. I'm constantly concerned about touching the lens or scratching it accidentally (more concerned than I am about the screen, to be honest).

I would think that if they're able to make a mechanical shutter that small, it wouldn't be that much more difficult to do a similar lens cover.

I owned a Nokia N70 years ago. It protects the camera with the help of a slider. When later I bought the Nokia N8 I missed that kind of protection...

Yes, I am aware that I am talking about completely different form factors here and not only that.

 

[buxz777]

the n86 , n82 , n85 , n95 , n73 , n70 etc all had sliding covers the n96 didn't , they went back to a sliding cover with the n97 but designed it wrong - to close to the lens causing scratches once it got a little dusty grimey

they then released the n900 and it had a cover like the n97 but it didn't cause scratches so they re-designed it better then the n97 version even though they were very very similar etc I remember their reason for no lens cover was quick access and arguementred reality apps working better without a lens cover and of course thickness of the device/camera hump?? id like a cover for the camera too just for peace of mind but after using a 808 extensively in all weathers and all places including beaches the gorilla glass seems to hold up well in fact it (lens glass) was still perfect when I sold it , because of that I do have some faith in nokias choice of no lens cover and toughened glass instead ;-)

if your that worried abut the lens martin fields do a protector that includes a camera protector , its very good quality and doesn't seem to effect the optics at all ;-)

 

[vlad0]

I don't know why the 41mpix sensor is considered "niche" .. yes, it is from the point of view that there are only two phones that employ it.. but that doesn't make it niche.

In fact the one in the 1020 is even more streamlined than the one on the 808... I expect a lot of Microsoft phones/tablets to have that exact same camera combo on them in near future.

I am hoping that the 1020 sensor will be kind of like those 8Mpix sensor are for a lot of phones today.. and they can just go with an even bigger sensor for the camera flagship for enthusiasts.

id like a cover for the camera too just for peace of mind but after using a 808 extensively in all weathers and all places including beaches the gorilla glass seems to hold up well in fact it (lens glass) was still perfect when I sold it , because of that I do have some faith in nokias choice of no lens cover and toughened glass instead ;-)

Its fine.. both my N8 and my 808 look perfectly fine after heavy daily use. Both phone were my "daily driver" for a long time. The only downside is the smudge.. but I have one of these on my key chain

http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-8072-Mi...ag=hawk-future-20&ascsubtag=UUwpUvbUpU2210724

I don't know how possible it is, but I think it would be kind of cool if a 1020 successor had an automatic lens cover like point and shoot cameras have. I'm constantly concerned about touching the lens or scratching it accidentally (more concerned than I am about the screen, to be honest).

I would think that if they're able to make a mechanical shutter that small, it wouldn't be that much more difficult to do a similar lens cover.

The reason they stopped putting the mechanical protective cover is because they wanted any potential app that needs to use the camera to be able to do so without having to wait for the cover to retract. Also.. I would guess it would be hard to get that API working properly with every app that needs camera access.

At least this is what Nokia gave as an explanation when the N8 came out in 2010.

 

[Muessig]

I don't know how possible it is, but I think it would be kind of cool if a 1020 successor had an automatic lens cover like point and shoot cameras have. I'm constantly concerned about touching the lens or scratching it accidentally (more concerned than I am about the screen, to be honest).

I would think that if they're able to make a mechanical shutter that small, it wouldn't be that much more difficult to do a similar lens cover.

I thought the 1020 had a lens cover that covered the lens when the camera app wasn't open? I could swear I've seen videos of it?

 

[jhoff80]

I thought the 1020 had a lens cover that covered the lens when the camera app wasn't open? I could swear I've seen videos of it?

Nope, that's the mechanical camera shutter, which is beneath the glass.

The reason they stopped putting the mechanical protective cover is because they wanted any potential app that needs to use the camera to be able to do so without having to wait for the cover to retract. Also.. I would guess it would be hard to get that API working properly with every app that needs camera access.

Maybe, but the camera shutter currently stays closed and then automatically pops open. I don't know why an external lens cover couldn't too. Who knows.