Lumia 810 - EOL - What about Firmware updates?

sahib lopez

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Nice job finding that post sahib lopez. I have several issues with the reasoning used though. First off you can see that the person is being somewhat extreme in their characterizations. That is they are implying that from day to day the situation can change a hundred percent. So the likelihood is that the person is exaggerating both the rapidity (day to day) and degree of change (100%). This is what some people call "arguing from the extreme." The reality is that neither situation as characterized is true, there is neither day to day changes nor 100% changes. It's unlikely. However, lets pretend there is a delay or a particular feature does not pan out. What is the dilemma? Just communicate that to the customer!!! I am not saying that one has to communicate fine details or the day to day activities involved in, for example, testing firmware. That's absurd and would not be expected by a reasonable customer. However significant changes could and should be communicated to the customer. So for that reason we can come to the conclusion that "please understand we can only share so much" also represents the same fallacious false dilemma as the person's other characterizations of the issue.

I remain convinced that communicating with one's customers the salient issues that customers are interested in is much superior than the current policy as rationalized by the statement you've quoted. There is a "happy medium" between their policy and some sort of straw man argument where T-Mobile would be so busy communicating trivial details that they could not do other things. It's a false dilemma and so I reject the rationalization as given. Communicating salient information (including important delays and changes) will involve customers with the company and build brand loyalty. Whereas the policy as is done now, irritates and impairs brand loyalty. If one wants to verify that, simply go to the T-Mobile forums and look.

Of course I am not criticizing you sahib lopez, this is again just an analysis of the rationalization for the policy. Thank you for the information!!!!

hahah :p no problem and I'm not defending T-Mobile in any way, I am as frustrated with T-Mobile as every poster on this thread and I thought it would be nice to share what I found while looking all over the internet, and if I find anymore info I will sure share it with you guys :)
 

MSFTisMIA

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Guys, just wanted to say thanks to everyone...we need to keep this thread going and talking because as ubiquitous as cell phones are becoming, people work hard for their cash and to EOL a decent device like this after 5 months and with no assurances on additional software support is plain foolishness on T-Mobile's part. If you haven't done so, please sign the petition:

http://forums.windowscentral.com/showthread/225195.htm
 

b23h

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Guys, just wanted to say thanks to everyone...we need to keep this thread going and talking because as ubiquitous as cell phones are becoming, people work hard for their cash and to EOL a decent device like this after 5 months and with no assurances on additional software support is plain foolishness on T-Mobile's part. If you haven't done so, please sign the petition:

http://forums.windowscentral.com/showthread/225195.htm

I'm still curious as to what happened to the HTC 8x on T-Mobile. Does anyone know? From my understanding of T-Mobile's plans there are two WP devices planned for the short term. The 521 at the low end selling at around 150 and the 925 who's price has not been announced yet. However I was under the impression that is maybe 599 to 640. That's a huge range with no middle. For a while there at the end the 810 was 360, pretty much smack dab in the center. What the hell is T-Mobile doing?

I've ported my number to Net 10. Main issue at this time is no MMS (which to be horrible blunt, I had never used before anyway). However I am working that issue now and hope to resolve it. Also apparently Net 10 does not have visual voicemail. I also am getting the feeling that their customer service is comparable to customer service across the industry (read: crappy). I've had two different customer service people respond to my post (they are quicker than T-Mobile in that issue), however they want to "solve" the issue by doing it via private messages. However I am new to the forum and you cannot send private messages until you've posted five time. So you look around the forums and you see people posting stuff like "#1, #2, etc. Each post though needs to be approved, so that policy means that the moderators have to be flooded with useless posts just so nOObs can get the ability to Private Message with Customer Service Representatives.

Who thought that up??

Anyway, the 810 is reset and in the next couple of days will be brought back to the T-Mobile store I bought it at......
 
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metalchick719

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As we speak, I'm writing an article about the situation with T-Mobile and the Lumia 810. I do freelance writing (unfortunately, I'm basically a ghost writer, so my name doesn't go on my work) and the article I'm composing will apparently be posted on techspy.com, so you guys should check it out. I was going to rewrite an article I submitted to my client on T-Mobile's LTE development about the iPhone 5S but then decided to scrap that and cover THIS topic of the EOLing and lack of firmware updates since it's been so important to you guys (me as well). So, see - I do still care about what happens to the 810! :wink:
 

Mystictrust

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However I am new to the forum and you cannot send private messages until you've posted five time. So you look around the forums and you see people posting stuff like "#1, #2, etc. Each post though needs to be approved, so that policy means that the moderators have to be flooded with useless posts just so nOObs can get the ability to Private Message with Customer Service Representatives.

Who thought that up??
You're not seeing the deeper side of this. As a previous forum administrator myself, this is important to prevent spamming. Often times, some spammer will sign up and flood as many users as they can with spam messages. Those spam messages result in users being turned off from the forums and/or spamming the moderators and admins with complaints about spam... or starting threads about spam, which keep lurking visitors from signing up (if they think they are going to be pestered with junk via PM)

It also encourages others to become a part of the community. While I never saw posts with simple numbers to up the limit (unless mods took care of useless posts like that before I caught them) I can understand how that would be an annoying byproduct of the post minimum.

The approved post thing here at WPC is for every new post from new users of course, not just the useless ones to up post count, so it's not taking any more time for the mods to see those than to actually have to read through a legit post and decide if it's worthy (or whatever they do here to determine a good first few posts). Also, I'm taking the stance that the WPC forums are here for community involvement, and were not set up as a PM ground for customer service people to address complaints of users - which frankly I refuse to believe is happening in considerable volume and wouldn't be enough to cause concern. If entire companies have teams of people set up in forums (having worked for some capacity for Microsoft in the past, I can confirm they do this in some form - but everybody must know that by now) then they'll already have an established account they can regularly use to contact customers. What you may have been dealing with is customer service agents who regularly read the site but felt they needed to sign up to look into your situation or try to help in some way... not a cause for the WPC team to look into changing their policy on PMs... IMHO, of course. I don't speak for WPC in any capacity :)

Ending my off-topic reply... are you able to point us to your article, metalchick, or do the terms of your ghost writing agreement keep you from doing so? Because, well obviously, we'll then know who to attribute to the article ;) I would be interested in reading it, in any case. That will help to bring more light to this situation... John Legere seems to be quite involved and attuned to the community - one can only hope that articles, forum chatter, angry customer service calls, etc will alert him to a problem that he may not even know exists - or at least prompt him to get someone to change things who can. All we're asking for is a little transparency... things might change on a day-to-day basis when it comes to updates and operations, but it doesn't mean they can't publicly come out and tell us what they know. Now they're just getting bad PR for silently doing stuff in the background, and it looks like they don't support their devices. There are people in these forums saying they won't be getting the 925 because of the support T-Mobile has shown the 810... and I haven't recognized those users from being vocal in the 810 forums here (could be wrong). Either way - that's lost sales because of the bang-up job they've done with handling the 810... and apparently the missing 8X. Great to hear from some users that one or both of those phones can be in store, but that's likely because they still have stock or unfulfilled orders... if it's not on the website, it's no longer for sale. And if it is, such as it should be for the 8X, there needs to be an out of stock notice or something. Seriously, removing all Windows Phones from your lineup? I don't even see the 521 on there as a current or future device. And I only found the Lumia 925 sign-up page from a link that metalchick posted in the 925 forum... it's not advertised anywhere I can find on their site, unlike the iPhone which was EVERYWHERE. They don't need to do a massive campaign for the 925, it's not as popular as the iPhone, but at least give it some time in the news feed. sheesh. Along with the 521, while we're at it.

I don't care how low of sales they have on a device, that's no excuse from shutting out ANNOUNCED DEVICES from your carrier lineup. There are plenty of consumers who will want these devices and are seeing ads for them, or hearing about them from friends. I guess unless the aim is to try and steer them to the mighty iPhone (sorry metalchick) or the latest HTC or Samsung device. Well, the deal they struck with iPhone probably requires a minimum amount of iPhone sales and they took on a large amount of debt to do it... Sprint kind of got slaughtered after going into massive debt on the iPhone... so it wouldn't surprise me if T-Mobile starts quickly shuttering out devices that aren't their top ten sellers.

I'm very disappointed in T-Mobile.
 

b23h

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Mystictrust.

good point about the spamming. However I suggest that you look at net10 forums if you are bored and have time at some point. The response by customer svc people stating that they will PM the customer and take the issue "offline" is super common.

"Hi b23h. My name is NET10 Jude and I'll be addressing your concern. For me to assist you further, we need to take this issue offline so I can address it further. I will contact you directly with a private message. Thanks."

I share your disappointment with T-Mobile and really wonder what their stratagem is. Also I tend to think that you probably don't have to apologize to Metalchick, there's no doubt a lot of lapsed iPhone owners here and there and I tend to think her loyalty to WP is pretty damn solid these days.....

Metalchick719

I really want to read your article. Please do link to it here if at all possible.
 

metalchick719

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I'll have to check the website in the next couple of days to see when it's posted. If I can find it, I'll definitely link you all to it up here. :smile:
 

MSFTisMIA

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Metalchick, cannot wait to read your article.

From what I've seen, the 8X is still around, but you may have to go digging for it. I may actually go to a few t mobile stores this week and talk to a few reps and share what the convo is. The assistant manager at the T-Mobile store I bought my 810 from is a sharp and honest enough guy (very big phone/tech junkie) so I may get some insights there.

If I were to guess, T-Mobile is taking a what and see approach with HTC, by focusing on pushing their version of the One. So they probably have limited stock and are taking limited replacement orders for the 8X. In spite of how people may feel about the phone itself, the 8X and 920 are the Gen One WP8 devices. If T-Mobile kills the 8X, it is a problem in the community. Because HTC decided to be idiots and not market both the One and the 8X (and put out more timely updates for the HTC WP apps) I'm sure they have a few more 8Xs lying around than they'd like...hence all those recent WPCentral articles on deals to get a 8X.

Here's where I got respect for VZW and AT&T. Walking into a VZW store yesterday, here is there lineup, w/a 2 yr contract of course from free to most expensive:
822: free
Odyssey:
8X:
928: $100

AT&T is the same, having the 820, 8X 8GB, 8X and 920 covering all price points. It is funny because T-Mobile was the lead Windows partner here from the windows mobile days, and now with WP8, VZW and AT&T are now the lead partners.

T-Mobile has hid the 8X because no one would buy that
at the same price point as the 925. But, if they sell it as their midrange option, it may eat into 925 sales because some people may not care for the superior camera, wireless charging and exclusive Nokia apps for their budget.

So with the strategy unclear, they still screw potential buyers with mixed messages and current WP owners with legitimate software update support concerns.

@Mystictrust, in the 810 forums here, this thread and the petition I started about the Other Folder screenshots are the two current ones where people have been voicing their displeasure. I seriously encourage you that if you know other unsatisfied 810 users, they should sign that petition or at least put up the link out their or even replicate it some place else.

At this point, I say buy your phones unlocked and use it on T-Mobile, if they are your carrier. All this feeding from the iTrough and the Samsung Bucket has T-Mobile flush with ideas of granduer and are sacrificing WP8 users and good customer service to try to be like VZW & AT&T...
 

waazzupppp

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Do you have the Nokia APN Editor installed? If not, you need to download that... It will give you access to all the different APN editing needs you have to get Net10 configured...

http://www.windowsphone.com/en-gb/store/app/access-point/ce3895c7-01d0-4daf-a4c3-25c10463942d

 

Fernando Blanco

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Actually For some reason when i get the articles I just have an alias and not the actual name of the person, If you like I can give you credit for the article, I don't see why I should have your article and not your name, we appreciate the type of work you write for us. :love: honestly the guy is an ace writer. and an OK guy.
 

Fernando Blanco

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Actually For some reason when i get the articles I just have an alias and not the actual name of the person, If you like I can give you credit for the article, I don't see why I should have your article and not your name, we appreciate the type of work you write for us. honestly the guy is an ace writer. and an OK guy.
 

MSFTisMIA

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Looks like the 8X on T-Mobile may be closer to being put out to pasture. I checked in with that store manager and the sense I got from him was that it is still around, and people can buy it, but it is all about the 925 and 521. Guess if T-Mobile kills of the 8X people may actually be interested in the plight of us 810 users...
 

waazzupppp

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It's all about the dollars right now... The 810 and 8x were contract driven phones... They paid too much to get them and can't sell them against the HTC One and Galaxy S4... At $360 they weren't making enough on the 810 to keep stocking it. Even the 521 is $70 more at a T-Mobile store than it is at your local Wal-Mart. The $500 phones have to have $500 features and the 810 was mid-range at best. The 8X however, had the high range specs, but everyone busted it down for not having the SD slot. The fact is the 16GB 8X should have been $450, but T-Mo had to charge $550 for it to make up for the lower contract prices.

T-Mobile dug their own grave on this one, not that I think the 810 or the 8x were bad devices. They were just overpriced. I can say that the new cheaper phones, like the 521 are so close in performance to the 810 that it would be hard to justify spending more than $200 at a T-Mobile store right now. You have the Optimus L9 for the Android crowd that is under $200 at Amazon and Wal-Mart... The 521 for $130-200 for the Windows Phone fans... The new unlocked iPhone 3GS for the iClones at $300... The BlackBerry 9315 for $168 for the BB fans... Seriously, any of these paired with a $50 a month bill is a pretty freaking sweet deal.

Now compare that to the 810 for $500, the 925 comes out at $575 and the 521 is still at $150-200... Would you buy the 810 for that or would you just save the extra $75 and get the beast?

And just a side note to the 8X - my buddies at HTC basically said all resources in the US are going to the One - for better or worse - it's their life saver if they have one left. I doubt that HTC is going to be a major player much longer in the industry - though I am secretly hoping that Microsoft buys them and starts turning out their own hardware... But that's just wishful thinking... Of course HTC headquarters is only 10 minutes from Microsoft's main campus...
 

Dr_8820

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The price might be one thing, but let's be honest: the Lumia 810 didn't sell because, as usual, T-Mobile got the bargain bin phone instead of the high end model like everyone else...then they get a high end model and gimp the internal storage with no memory card...what people are not seeing is that the Nokia Lumia 810 is a seriously flawed product in need of a software fix, and neither Nokia or T-Mobile cares anything about that...but I'm supposed to forget about what happened to the HD2, HD7, Radar, and Lumia 710, and just run out and buy the newer phone hoping things will be different this time around...yeah right.
 

b3rni3703

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The price might be one thing, but let's be honest: the Lumia 810 didn't sell because, as usual, T-Mobile got the bargain bin phone instead of the high end model like everyone else...then they get a high end model and gimp the internal storage with no memory card...what people are not seeing is that the Nokia Lumia 810 is a seriously flawed product in need of a software fix, and neither Nokia or T-Mobile cares anything about that...but I'm supposed to forget about what happened to the HD2, HD7, Radar, and Lumia 710, and just run out and buy the newer phone hoping things will be different this time around...yeah right.

I strongly agree with this statement. Although, this device may not be so bad - still could use some software tweaks. Don't get me wrong, i'm all Android but I'd rather have WP for its intuitive user friendly OS. Heard rumors that an upcoming software update is in the works but not enough evidence to validate it. In addition aside from the firmware update - i just wished that Nokia would have been more generous about releasing more color options for this device including replaceable colored OE back shells. Felt somewhat like a 3rd class with the way this device was made but hey it could've been worse right?
 

sahib lopez

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"Jonathan Cronin, director of product portfolio and marketing at T-Mobile, said the Lumia 710 and 810 had been successful for T-Mobile, and the entry-level Lumia 521 has also been selling extremely well since it went on sale via the Home Shopping Network"

So I'm know sure if this is relevant or not but I Just wanted to point out that if the 810 was successful in T-mobile why would they EOL it after 5 months.now with the argument that it didn't sell well ..... Why would they say it did unless Cronin said " it sold well" to save face. Anyways this is what I found I hope it something :)
 

MSFTisMIA

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There's enough blame to go around. Blame Nokia for not making the 822 the standard variant for the 82x line, at least in terms of storage. Blame T-Mobile for taking the 810 & 8X, overpricing them and then killing them off because they didn't sell. Blame MSFT for having the WP8 at launch feel like WP7 all over again, with regard to how poor Xbox Music was as a replacement for Zune and giving users NO way to update custom variants if the carrier doesn't put out the firmware update. And blame MSFT a second time for not addressing the "Other" storage issue more promptly. Why am I resetting my 810 to use it?

But...the future of the platform is brighter now that people are buying WP8 phones and apps are coming in. Still, anything I hear from T-Mobile is spin at this point. Maybe Dish needs to buy them out and inject some additional cash in their so we can get global variants of phones instead of the carrier specific junk that gets shafted due to poor sales.

The 810 as far as resale value goes is worth as much as those comments from Cronin.
 

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