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10-18-2014 09:07 AM
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  1. Hotvak123's Avatar
    10-14-2014 01:22 PM
  2. a5cent's Avatar
    ^ and?

    Did you as a consumer ever pay for a WP license? Did you receive something from MS certifying you as a legal licensee of WP? You probably didn't. Guess who did? Yup... the OEM.

    What must someone do to convince you? You don't need to believe me. Just look at how updates for the WP8 L810 were handled. That should already make it perfectly clear that your interpretations of these texts are incorrect.
    Last edited by a5cent; 10-15-2014 at 02:03 PM. Reason: formatting
    sahib lopez likes this.
    10-14-2014 06:01 PM
  3. Zulfigar's Avatar
    If Verizon decides to retired less than 1 year and Microsoft does not provide update then can we institute a lawsuit because it's broken their polic?
    No, ultimately, it's up to them if they want to update a phone or not. That's just how the world works at the moment, sorry mate.
    10-15-2014 07:16 AM
  4. Hotvak123's Avatar
    ^ and?


    Did you as a consumer ever pay for a WP license? Did you receive something from MS certifying you as a legal licensee of WP? You probably didn't. Guess who did? Yup... the OEM.


    What must someone do to convince you? You don't need to believe me. Just look at how updates for the WP8 L810 were handled. That should already make it perfectly clear that your interpretations of these texts are incorrect.
    Yes I did get the use of the license
    Go to settings on your windows phone, scroll down to ABOUT windows phone, tap on (Terms of use)
    this is your license between you and Microsoft to use the software., and you agreed with this when you activated you phone., and any app you download has a TOF use just by excepting the download.
    Microsoft contract with OEMs and the Carrier are between them, and they have there own TOF
    We have our own TOF with OEM when you buy the phone, and when you sign up with the carrier network.

    Everybody needs to read this stuff you be surprised what's in it.

    As for your 810 it maybe compatibility issues who knows but you bought it (as is), read you TOF, it's the paper work that came with the phone / computer. or go to Microsoft, apple, android, OEM sites. they all have it.
    Now I have pervaded the proof for my statements, unless you have something I missed I like to read it.
    Your a grate moderator thank you. if anything you got everybody to read there TOF's
    10-15-2014 10:38 AM
  5. a5cent's Avatar
    As for your 810 it maybe compatibility issues who knows but you bought it (as is), read you TOF, it's the paper work that came with the phone / computer. or go to Microsoft, apple, android, OEM sites. they all have it.
    Now I have pervaded the proof for my statements, unless you have something I missed I like to read it.
    Horse apples. If Microsoft's lifecycle policy legally obliges Microsoft to provide updates to consumers, then MS is required to do so or risk being sued. Your hypothesis would also be a lot more believable if the Lumia 810's internals were not 100% identical to the 820's, which did get the update.

    Yes I did get the use of the license
    Go to settings on your windows phone, scroll down to ABOUT windows phone, tap on (Terms of use)
    this is your license between you and Microsoft to use the software., and you agreed with this when you activated you phone., and any app you download has a TOF use just by excepting the download.
    Microsoft contract with OEMs and the Carrier are between them, and they have there own TOF
    Of course there are also terms and conditions that apply to users of the Windows Phone OS. I never said there weren't. At least we've now clearly established and agree that the ToU for users and those for the OEM (who purchases the OS license) are not identical.

    The topic of this thread is Microsoft's alleged obligation to provide updates to consumers and how that is allegedly spelled out in Microsoft's lifecycle policies for Windows Phone.

    All you've done so far is highlight two legal documents that apply to consumers, but neither of them have anything to say about Microsoft's obligation to provide updates to consumers, nor do either of them include/replicate the passages from Microsoft's lifecycle policy. Why not? Because those passages aren't about consumers and don't apply to consumers. That has been my point all along. Now you're basically helping me make it.

    You can link to as many documents as you want. If they don't spell out how Microsoft is obliged to deliver updates to consumers, then I'd consider them irrelevant to this topic. You won't find any such documents however, because they don't exist.

    I'll give you one more way of looking at it. To recap, this is the sentence causing all the confusion:

    Microsoft will make updates available for the Operating System, including security updates, for a minimum of 36 months after the lifecycle start date.
    Does that sound like a very precise way to describe how MS will deliver updates to consumers? How many updates? How would you explain that so far, every version of WP has violated that text (no version of WP has ever received updates for 36 months, as updates appear long before the 36 month mark, and the older version is then never updated again)? How would you explain that WP7.8, who's lifecycle policy had the same wording, never received even a single update? Sure, with enough creativity and excuses you can explain and talk your way around all these ambiguities, but then you'd have to admit that this is the poorest legal document any lawyer in he world has ever written. How likely is that? Lawyers tend to be rather precise. That's their job.

    Look at it as pertaining to OEMs however, and all the ambiguities disappear. What it's actually saying is that IF MS does provide an update, MS will keep it on hand for the stated duration, during which time MS is obliged to make it available (and provide support) to OEMs who want to use it to update their WP devices. Viewed that way, it instantly makes much more sense...

    Your a grate moderator thank you.
    Thank you too.
    Last edited by a5cent; 10-16-2014 at 06:51 PM. Reason: spelling
    10-16-2014 01:08 PM
  6. Hotvak123's Avatar
    all I know is that when I bought my phone ,and I sign off on the ops program
    12. DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY. The software is licensed "as-is." You bear the risk of using it. Microsoft gives no express warranties, guarantees or conditions.
    This statement tell me I can't sue for software problems. and it's not even mine, I lease it.
    And the AS IS. means they don't have to give me anything more than what I bought that day.
    except for the manufacture 1 year warranties where they will replace or repair. After that I am s.o.l should something happen with the phone.
    Microsoft on the other hand say it will support their software up to 36 months if they have updates they will make them available for down load without charge. that could be on month 36 as far as I am concerned
    remember #12 and (as is) sign off.
    The nut and short of it is we do not have the right to the updates for a program we do not own and its none of our business when they do maintenance/updates on their program.
    I would say Verizon is the best example. tight lipped.
    This is the prime reason why you read what you sign before you give your rights away.
    Microsoft obligation ended when I bought the phone so anything I get from them I feel its a treat as long as it doesn't screw up my phone and if it does , that dame sign off again.
    10-17-2014 09:47 PM
  7. a5cent's Avatar
    ^ This I basically agree with. You are still making it sound like the lifecycle support period applies to consumers, which I wish you wouldn't because as long as that is how it's presented it will continue to confuse. Many will criticize MS for breaking their promises (which they actually never made). Still, it's a far cry from saying: "we will get updates because MS said they'd offer support for 36 months".



    I wouldn't consider those details worth arguing over however.
    10-18-2014 03:03 AM
  8. Hotvak123's Avatar
    OK I see your point. it should read "..... 36 months provided it meets the update criteria for your phone
    it will be available for down load.
    I have a Htc 8x with developer program 8.1.1 what an improvement. so I downloaded the app " real time caller ID. to try it, when I activated it, it said my firmware # was to low, (something like that)
    when reading the app spec. it was for a Nokia phone which had a higher firmware #
    so I would say that the 8.1 I received is not going have everything the Nokia 8.1 would get. that is when they get it, or if they get it. sound like a box of chocolates to me.
    but I feel Microsoft will do their part to keep us happy they need us to support and test their program. It's Verizon dragging their feet on testing and supplying the official updates.
    10-18-2014 09:07 AM
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