1. libra89's Avatar
    There are too many instances of this stuff.

    The truth is, most humans of all ethnicities share the common idea of simply wanting to build a safe life: work, pursuing certain goals and responsibilities.

    The ignorance comes in when it's perceived that someone who is different (physical features, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, age, possessing a visible physical and or emotional "disability") is getting in the way of those things.

    Most times that's not the case. The thing that always gets me is when people make a racist statement about an ethnic group and have a friend from that ethnic group. So why doesn't the friend fit the same comment? "Well, (s)he is different."

    Really. SMH.
    Well said.

    Ugh the last thing you mentioned has happened to me a lot. There was a point in my life when I saw that as a compliment (i'll rather not elaborate on that openly, but if one wishes to know, message me) but thankfully I realized that it's not one and that it is actually terrible.
    N_LaRUE likes this.
    06-27-2017 10:09 AM
  2. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    Well said.

    Ugh the last thing you mentioned has happened to me a lot. There was a point in my life when I saw that as a compliment (i'll rather not elaborate on that openly, but if one wishes to know, message me) but thankfully I realized that it's not one and that it is actually terrible.
    Yup, it's a backhanded compliment that sometimes you want to backhand the person who said it...
    libra89 and N_LaRUE like this.
    06-27-2017 10:11 AM
  3. libra89's Avatar
    Yup, it's a backhanded compliment that sometimes you want to backhand the person who said it...
    Seriously! I don't get it. I'm sure you have lots of examples of this as well. I'll admit that sometimes I have an internal debate how I should feel.

    Like one time at church, a lady told me "I didn't know that you were Nigerian. You don't really act like one." I didn't understand that...and I still don't considering that she is Nigerian herself. To this day, I don't get what she meant or was implying. I was debating if I should be offended but I chose to settle on confusion.
    N_LaRUE and Rose640 like this.
    06-27-2017 10:21 AM
  4. libra89's Avatar
    On a lighter note, my friend who is 20 and has proposed to his now fiancee, is arriving soon. It would be nice to see her on Friday. I have met her but I haven't had a social experience with her yet.

    Related, talking to my brother yesterday, he thinks that one of my friends might like me but I don't know about that. I'm super oblivious when it comes to noticing things like that. He's a cool guy, he is cute but I don't think I am his type so it's hard for me to believe that.
    N_LaRUE, Laura Knotek and Rose640 like this.
    06-27-2017 10:49 AM
  5. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    Seriously! I don't get it. I'm sure you have lots of examples of this as well. I'll admit that sometimes I have an internal debate how I should feel.

    Like one time at church, a lady told me "I didn't know that you were Nigerian. You don't really act like one." I didn't understand that...and I still don't considering that she is Nigerian herself. To this day, I don't get what she meant or was implying. I was debating if I should be offended but I chose to settle on confusion.
    I used to get that when I lived in my home country, so I just chalked it up to ignorance. Sometimes I'd do something that is so "Jamacian" (based on their perception), it would stop them COLD. Then I'd raise an eyebrow at them and you should see them squirm and change topic rapidly.

    That's how people are. They do like to shat over people, and there are times it is necessary to get down like that.
    N_LaRUE, libra89 and Laura Knotek like this.
    06-27-2017 10:55 AM
  6. libra89's Avatar
    I used to get that when I lived in my home country, so I just chalked it up to ignorance. Sometimes I'd do something that is so "Jamaican" (based on their perception), it would stop them COLD. Then I'd raise an eyebrow at them and you should see them squirm and change topic rapidly.

    That's how people are. They do like to shat over people, and there are times it is necessary to get down like that.
    You are awesome to do that to them. That sounds like that must have been funny to see them react that way.
    06-27-2017 11:03 AM
  7. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Seriously! I don't get it. I'm sure you have lots of examples of this as well. I'll admit that sometimes I have an internal debate how I should feel.

    Like one time at church, a lady told me "I didn't know that you were Nigerian. You don't really act like one." I didn't understand that...and I still don't considering that she is Nigerian herself. To this day, I don't get what she meant or was implying. I was debating if I should be offended but I chose to settle on confusion.
    MIA didn't say but implied it.

    Cultural expectations. Indicating you're supposed to be 'acting' or 'being' a certain way.

    I'm Canadian, regardless of my world travel. However, I'm not very Canadian in the ways that people expect. I don't speak like a Canadian. I don't dress like a Canadian (from where my family lives especially!). I'm probably not the most politest/nicest person around either but that's a warped perception that's been perpetuated by media and probably the government. To imply all Canadians are polite nice people is a false dichotomy... also if the bar is that low the world has greater problems than I thought...

    Cultural identity is something I've sort of struggled with anyway as Canada, where I grew up, is a melting pot. What exactly is a Canadian anyway? Canada is just a place. There are good people everywhere.
    libra89, MSFTisMIA and azcruz like this.
    06-27-2017 11:14 AM
  8. Rose640's Avatar
    The UK has record unemployment (the numbers are BS but hey...). The simple truth is, even though jobs is something that's brought up, typically it's more about pay than getting a job, but the bigger issue is about local services.

    Biggest issue is that the UK simply does not invest in local services and because immigration happens in these small towns the services become strapped. So that's where a lot of the anger comes from but has nothing to do with immigrants or the EU...
    When it all started I had a feeling it was mostly related to IT industry. It's common thing to have very diverse teams working together in a foreign country, and on top of everything there's a more than a fine wage.

    For instance, Rockstar had already said that they're going to have serious issues, once UK leaves UE. They're going to lost both the open market and many fonds.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    06-27-2017 01:53 PM
  9. Rose640's Avatar
    That's the same mantra being chanted in the US. "Those Mexicans are stealing our jobs" blah, blah and more blah. Those "Mexicans" do what nobody else is willing to do. I've been in the construction industry for over 30 years and I can't remember the last time I saw a 'Murican doing ironwork on a deck, plastering stucco or digging for pile caps. If the lilies had to pick lettuce & tomatoes a salad would cost $50.
    Well that's the problem. There's going to be serious issues in every possible industry, the prices are definitely going to increase.

    Picture this: Entitled Millenial picking cherries for 4$ an hour. Good comedy.
    fatclue_98 and Laura Knotek like this.
    06-27-2017 01:56 PM
  10. Rose640's Avatar
    I knew about that. We (my country) just like in the 80s had a great reputation both in the US and UK and could get jobs easily. Then the 90s rolled around and some of the criminally minded got into both placed and sullied our rep. Now it's just mixed.

    You'd be surprised (not Rue) how racist some can get. I remember my uncle's sister came to visit with her niece when I was younger (they were black) and tried to shat over us because they were from the UK. And I know of people who live in the UK and dealt with the horrible racist episodes in spades...that's no different that in some places still here in the US.

    Struggle is still real in 2017 with that topic...
    I know people who have never met a black person their lives (this is a south-eastern Europe, so...) and they still, literally, hate them. That's right. They're, like I haven't met them but they're criminals and stuff, you know they're black.

    And the racism doesn't end there. Whenever a video of a police brutality shows up on Facebook, the comments are so sick and poisoning that it makes me sick. I'm not even going to mention all the crap they writr there.
    06-27-2017 02:02 PM
  11. Rose640's Avatar
    On a lighter note, my friend who is 20 and has proposed to his now fiancee, is arriving soon. It would be nice to see her on Friday. I have met her but I haven't had a social experience with her yet.

    Related, talking to my brother yesterday, he thinks that one of my friends might like me but I don't know about that. I'm super oblivious when it comes to noticing things like that. He's a cool guy, he is cute but I don't think I am his type so it's hard for me to believe that.
    Tell me about being oblivious. Missed out on a super great girl a couple of months ago.
    libra89 likes this.
    06-27-2017 02:06 PM
  12. libra89's Avatar
    Tell me about being oblivious. Missed out on a super great girl a couple of months ago.
    Aw, I'm sorry that happened to you. That sucks.
    Rose640 likes this.
    06-27-2017 02:08 PM
  13. Rose640's Avatar
    Seriously! I don't get it. I'm sure you have lots of examples of this as well. I'll admit that sometimes I have an internal debate how I should feel.

    Like one time at church, a lady told me "I didn't know that you were Nigerian. You don't really act like one." I didn't understand that...and I still don't considering that she is Nigerian herself. To this day, I don't get what she meant or was implying. I was debating if I should be offended but I chose to settle on confusion.
    Well, don't know any stereotypes about Nigerians, but when someones tells you that you're not acting like a you're from Balkan, when you really are, it's really a compliment. Sort of.
    libra89 and Laura Knotek like this.
    06-27-2017 02:09 PM
  14. Rose640's Avatar
    Aw, I'm sorry that happened to you. That sucks.
    Yup, it does. If it weren't embarassing it would be funny how things went out with the two of us. I'll just say I asked her out and found out that she's not available anymore. At the date.
    libra89 and N_LaRUE like this.
    06-27-2017 02:11 PM
  15. libra89's Avatar
    Yup, it does. If it weren't embarassing it would be funny how things went out with the two of us. I'll just say I asked her out and found out that she's not available anymore. At the date.
    Wow o_o
    Rose640 likes this.
    06-27-2017 02:41 PM
  16. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    MIA didn't say but implied it.

    Cultural expectations. Indicating you're supposed to be 'acting' or 'being' a certain way.

    I'm Canadian, regardless of my world travel. However, I'm not very Canadian in the ways that people expect. I don't speak like a Canadian. I don't dress like a Canadian (from where my family lives especially!). I'm probably not the most politest/nicest person around either but that's a warped perception that's been perpetuated by media and probably the government. To imply all Canadians are polite nice people is a false dichotomy... also if the bar is that low the world has greater problems than I thought...

    Cultural identity is something I've sort of struggled with anyway as Canada, where I grew up, is a melting pot. What exactly is a Canadian anyway? Canada is just a place. There are good people everywhere.
    This might help...
    libra89, N_LaRUE and Laura Knotek like this.
    06-27-2017 02:58 PM
  17. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Well that's the problem. There's going to be serious issues in every possible industry, the prices are definitely going to increase.

    Picture this: Entitled Millenial picking cherries for 4$ an hour. Good comedy.
    You had me at Entitled Millennial picking.........anything.
    06-27-2017 03:17 PM
  18. sinime's Avatar
    I remember installing a game from a floppy, it was a Millioner game, just a few KBs, but it took forever.
    I Remember Chess Maniac 5 Billion and 1 came on something like 12 floppies and took over 20 minutes to decompress when it first came out (early 90's). Not sure I still have it backed up anymore, but at one point I had burned a copy to CD and it was down to about a 2 minute decompress time (late 90's).
    Rose640 and Laura Knotek like this.
    06-27-2017 03:52 PM
  19. Rose640's Avatar
    Wow o_o
    She could have said that way before we went out. Yeah, it was as awkward as you can imagine.
    libra89 and Laura Knotek like this.
    06-27-2017 04:35 PM
  20. Rose640's Avatar
    You had me at Entitled Millennial picking.........anything.
    I laughed to myself as well. It was too good.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    06-27-2017 04:37 PM
  21. libra89's Avatar
    She could have said that way before we went out. Yeah, it was as awkward as you can imagine.
    I totally agree.

    Being so oblivious is hard sometimes.
    Laura Knotek and Rose640 like this.
    06-27-2017 05:39 PM
  22. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    When it all started I had a feeling it was mostly related to IT industry. It's common thing to have very diverse teams working together in a foreign country, and on top of everything there's a more than a fine wage.

    For instance, Rockstar had already said that they're going to have serious issues, once UK leaves UE. They're going to lost both the open market and many fonds.
    The IT industry had nothing to do with the situation in the UK.

    The problems in the UK started back in the early 80s when 'traditional' employment started to disappear from the northern areas of the country and industries shut down leaving thousands unemployed and given no means to develop new skills. Then add to the unattractive nature and poor infrastructure of the north for other industries and you have what can only be described as a recipe for disaster.

    There are places in the north where people have been generally unemployed since their industry shut down. There are towns that are basically dead or dying. People lament about 'the good ol days'.

    A lot of these towns have little to no employment opportunities to begin with, but then some industries go out of their way to employ workers from the EU who will work for less or specifically, got contracted from their own country to work in the UK. Not sure what news you get but there are EU truck drivers, as an example, who basically live to work. They get paid barely a living wage, let alone any ability to thrive. This is a perfect example of what is wrong with our 'cheap' economy.

    The UK had implemented policies that allow this to happen. A lot of people blame the EU, thanks to the right wing media, but in truth a lot of the destructive policies are due to the UK. Because the EU doesn't have jurisdiction on what employment laws a country can bring in.

    To add further fuel to the fire the right wing media constantly goes on about immigration and how immigrants are stealing jobs. The farming sector is big employer of EU citizens (A British person would never work in farming) and this unfortunately means that EU citizens live in small rural areas which can't handle the influx of immigration and put stress on the services. The UK government have done little to help. Lots of EU citizens also work in many of the industries that most UK workers wouldn't touch. Most are hard work and low paid.

    It's the stress of the services that gets people angry and the lack of other employment in the area. If British citizens were employed in 'better' jobs and had good services than there would be no issue with EU citizens. British people need to have better opportunities of course... There will always be those who are anti-immigration but I don't think the EU referendum result would have been the same if things were handled differently.

    I would also point out that EU citizens work in a lot of industries and without them those industries would not be thriving. They're high skilled and well paid.

    The last thing out of all this of course was the refugee crisis and the right wing media constantly proclaiming that they were all coming to the UK. The referendum couldn't have been at a worse time. Because immigration has been such an issue for many years here in the UK, this just tipped it. OF course refuges have nothing to do with the EU again, but that didn't stop those who wanted to leave the EU using it to their advantage.

    Out of all this I will say this much. The UK has a horrible immigration system to begin with. They did nothing to implement EU freedom of movement policies correctly, due to the cost of course, so in all reality they have no one to blame but themselves for the mess they created.

    On top of that, the ability to contract EU workers directly from their country and the implementation of zero hour contracts (both policies pushed by the UK in the EU as well) has created an environment of uncertainty of workers in low paid, low skilled jobs. This is why the UK has the issues it does.

    Don't even get me started on the so called 'Gig economy' and what that has done.
    06-28-2017 03:11 AM
  23. Rose640's Avatar
    The IT industry had nothing to do with the situation in the UK.

    The problems in the UK started back in the early 80s when 'traditional' employment started to disappear from the northern areas of the country and industries shut down leaving thousands unemployed and given no means to develop new skills. Then add to the unattractive nature and poor infrastructure of the north for other industries and you have what can only be described as a recipe for disaster.

    There are places in the north where people have been generally unemployed since their industry shut down. There are towns that are basically dead or dying. People lament about 'the good ol days'.

    A lot of these towns have little to no employment opportunities to begin with, but then some industries go out of their way to employ workers from the EU who will work for less or specifically, got contracted from their own country to work in the UK. Not sure what news you get but there are EU truck drivers, as an example, who basically live to work. They get paid barely a living wage, let alone any ability to thrive. This is a perfect example of what is wrong with our 'cheap' economy.

    The UK had implemented policies that allow this to happen. A lot of people blame the EU, thanks to the right wing media, but in truth a lot of the destructive policies are due to the UK. Because the EU doesn't have jurisdiction on what employment laws a country can bring in.

    To add further fuel to the fire the right wing media constantly goes on about immigration and how immigrants are stealing jobs. The farming sector is big employer of EU citizens (A British person would never work in farming) and this unfortunately means that EU citizens live in small rural areas which can't handle the influx of immigration and put stress on the services. The UK government have done little to help. Lots of EU citizens also work in many of the industries that most UK workers wouldn't touch. Most are hard work and low paid.

    It's the stress of the services that gets people angry and the lack of other employment in the area. If British citizens were employed in 'better' jobs and had good services than there would be no issue with EU citizens. British people need to have better opportunities of course... There will always be those who are anti-immigration but I don't think the EU referendum result would have been the same if things were handled differently.

    I would also point out that EU citizens work in a lot of industries and without them those industries would not be thriving. They're high skilled and well paid.

    The last thing out of all this of course was the refugee crisis and the right wing media constantly proclaiming that they were all coming to the UK. The referendum couldn't have been at a worse time. Because immigration has been such an issue for many years here in the UK, this just tipped it. OF course refuges have nothing to do with the EU again, but that didn't stop those who wanted to leave the EU using it to their advantage.

    Out of all this I will say this much. The UK has a horrible immigration system to begin with. They did nothing to implement EU freedom of movement policies correctly, due to the cost of course, so in all reality they have no one to blame but themselves for the mess they created.

    On top of that, the ability to contract EU workers directly from their country and the implementation of zero hour contracts (both policies pushed by the UK in the EU as well) has created an environment of uncertainty of workers in low paid, low skilled jobs. This is why the UK has the issues it does.

    Don't even get me started on the so called 'Gig economy' and what that has done.
    It all really brings down to blaming EU and immigrants for issues created back in 80s and 90s.

    I'm curious to see if Brits are actually going to take those 'stolen jobs', the ones consisting of physical labor and low wages. You know my bet on this one.

    I haven't noticed a negative attitude from EU towards UK. They're acting like it's all flowers and butterflies, like they're on friendly terms. While we all know it's far from that. If Merkel wasn't in charge of Germany, UK would be already toast.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    06-28-2017 06:01 AM
  24. Rose640's Avatar
    06-28-2017 06:08 AM
  25. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    It all really brings down to blaming EU and immigrants for issues created back in 80s and 90s.
    Well It's a bit more complex than that but that's where some of the issues stem from. A common thing to do in every society is to blame 'others' for you problems. There's also the issue of globalisation as well. It's fairly complex and I was trying really hard not to go too in depth but the issues in the UK stems from a north/south divide and a rich/poor divide and generally old/new policies that do nothing to address the issues. The government since the 80s, whether it was Tory or Labour has done little to fix issues and has created this mess. The UK is a country steeped in benefit mentality instead of addressing the underlining issues of skill shortage.

    I'm curious to see if Brits are actually going to take those 'stolen jobs', the ones consisting of physical labor and low wages. You know my bet on this one.
    The obvious answer here is no and the government knows it. There's talks of 'special visas' for farming but that may add additional costs to everything... but it's what the UK wants to do it seems. There will be costs to employers to hire outside the UK. I don't see employers, especially low wage employers, paying, so I see these industries moving, those that can that is.

    I haven't noticed a negative attitude from EU towards UK. They're acting like it's all flowers and butterflies, like they're on friendly terms. While we all know it's far from that. If Merkel wasn't in charge of Germany, UK would be already toast.
    The EU is being a lot more generous and positive than the UK is. I believe the EU has the best interest of everyone at heart but the UK, in my opinion, is out to place blame for any negative impact leaving the EU will have on the UK. There's lots of waffle around on this whole Brexit nonsense and since the UK government doesn't want to commit to anything or say what they want, it continues to be some vague thing.

    There's a lot of uncertanity here in the UK. Some industries appear to be loving the idea of Brexit, mostly hospitality, for the reasons I believe that they think UK citizens will travel overseas less, while others are highly worried about it. It's all a very strange environment and difficult to explain without writing pages.
    06-28-2017 06:24 AM
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