Why I won’t buy anymore Windows hardware….ever.

[tophera]

I’m considering this a cathartic experience, however there are some nuggets of wisdom in it, if anyone cares to read.

First – I’ve been a Windows (Microsoft) fan all my life. I’ve never bought into the stylized veneer of other products. I’ve just wanted things to work, and work well. Sometimes MS has hit and sometimes missed, but it’s always worked to get better. I’ve been a small business owner, and now a senior executive at a major technology provider, always promoting MS tech and I’ve cheered MS’s new direction under Satya, and hope for great things to come.

However, I won’t buy anymore Windows hardware….ever.

With the surface book was first announced I jumped onboard. I even flew from SLC to Denver chasing down an “in stock” phantom, eventually having to purchase one on best buy and wait. When I got it, it was everything I hoped it would be.

But within a short period of time hardware issues started to creep in, and then almost as if by design, as the warranty expired, the $3,000 laptop became unusable. I’m not talking about minor things, for example - I’m talking about horrible light bleed and screen disfiguration (happy to send photos). The dock becoming inoperable. Random disconnecting and connecting of peripherals, and the keyboard --- oh man, just bump this thing and poof – it’s gone. Multiple failures/quality issues across the board.

I’ve never had a piece of hardware fail like my Surface Book. I also know that I’m not alone. Just searching the web and you see the consumer reports downgrade, and similar experiences. Even more frustrating, I couldn't find any way to contact support that doesn’t infer some sort of fee to complain. It's disheartening. I’ve tried over the past year to offer feedback and it’s such a pain that I give up.

$3,000 for an early adopter experience like this was/is a bummer.

So, as I salivate over the new surface products, the surface pro, the new Surface Go (which I think has hit the mark), I go onto the website and into the store to purchase… then I look at the yellow stains on my screen, the customer service experience, and think about the disappointment of the Surface Book meltdown, I think… don’t let my love for MS sucker me into that again.

So I don’t buy. I don’t recommend. I waste money on competitors, that should go to MS.

I’m not asking for my money back, just somewhere to complain and maybe a “yea we know, please give us another chance” would be a start.

and maybe - a customer service email address I don’t have to go through a “choose your own adventure” questionnaire that tells me that fees will apply, and terminates. Ironic the only email I can find is that of the CEO, who undoubtedly has better things to do than resolve the concerns of a disillusioned consumer.

 

[Laura Knotek]

I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience with your Surface.

I buy notebook PCs from various companies, but I've never given serious consideration to any Surface products, since they are overpriced and lack features compared to much cheaper products from Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc.

 

[tophera]

Yes, I agree - MS will have to up it's game to compete with Dell, and Lenovo and you have helped my catharsis! Just by reading and replying, MS should take a lesson from you!

 

[Andrew G1]

The key here is "early adopter experience." One of the reasons CR stopped recommending the Surface brand was the fact that Microsoft had only recently started making hardware. Was the OP expecting very high reliability from an "early adopter experience"?

Also - and please don't take this the wrong way - but did you drop your Surface? Your particular constellation of problems sounds unusual.

As for me, I'm very happy with my Surface Pro despite the screen flaw (a uniform band of light bleed across the bottom of the screen). Really no other vendor at the time had a detachable that could compete on screen quality, pen experience, battery life and thermals. So in that limited regard I disagree with our moderator - I think I got good value out of my Surface. YMMV.

 

[BanditoTR]

I love the concept of the Surface Book but it just looks to be too prone to breaking due to to everything that makes it unique. I think if MS still work on the device that the third or fourth iteration is the one that will be great.

Something else that I don't like is that I thought that the tablet portion could be reused with a different bottom but if things continue to be like SB1 to SB2 if you have to buy the whole thing and not only the bottom I don't think the SB will have too much of a future.

Or just give the Surface Pro the option to be able to have the necessary connection ports for a SB bottom for the people that want it.

 

[Tsang Fai]

I owned totally 8 Surface devices since 2013. Let me share my experience here.

• Surface Pro 1st gen - bought in 2013 in an authorized retail reseller. I purchased an extended warranty package (2 more years, totally 3-year warranty) for about 15% of the device's price. In late 2015, the device started to have problems in booting, and finally became totally unbootable in early 2016. Thanks to the extended warranty, I was offered a brand new Surface Pro 4 (as Microsoft had stopped production for Surface Pro 1-3 at that time) for $0.
• Surface Pro 3 - bought in Sep 2014 - it started to have booting problems in 2017. Still usable now (when it successfully boots...).
• Another Surface Pro 3 - bought by my school in April 2015 - still working very well as of today, Oct 2018.
• Surface Pro 4 - the one offered to me in mid 2015, mentioned above - it started to have booting problems again in May 2018. I have recently sent the device to Microsoft. Still waiting for their reply.
• Another Surface Pro 4 - bought in the U.S. in Nov 2015 - ** yes, early adoptor ** - the device is still functioning very well now, Oct 2018
• Surface Book 1st gen - bought in the U.S. in Nov 2015 - ** yes, early adoptor ** - after about 3 months of usage, the battery of the keyboard showed 0% battery level. Problem still exists after more than 5 clean re-installations of Windows 10 + all Windows updates + all firmware updates. 100% sure it is a hardware problem. As I live in Hong kong, I cannot afford sending the device to US Microsoft Store and have them send back to Hongkong. So I approached the Hong Kong Microsoft online store but they refused to repair/exchange - they claimed, "As Surface Book is still not available in Hong Kong, we cannot provide any warranty service. You need to send the device back to US for warranty service". About 6 months later, Surface Book was available in Hong Kong, and then I approached Hong Kong Microsoft online store again. And they responded, "Sorry, we do not provide warranty service to any Surface device bought outside Hong Kong. Even exchange for a refurbished device is impossible". Now, my Surface Book is still usable with the keyboard battery always staying at 0%. The battery life is at most 2 hours. So basically I can only use it at home/office.
• Surface 3 LTE - bought in late 2015 - still working very well as of today, Oct 2018.
• Surface Studio - bought in July 2017 - still working very well as of today, Oct 2018.

Note: I never had hardware problem on type covers of all Surface devices I have ever owned.

I have to admit that Surface Pro 1 to 3 are not so reliable, especially for the 1st batch of devices shipped right after launch. Surface Pro 4 has improved in terms of reliability but is still not so reliable as compared to other manufacturers.

I highly recommend to purchase an extended warranty package (which is available in Microsoft Store of U.S. and some other countries/resellers). It's a painful experience if the device has some serious hardware problem just after the 1-year warranty has expired!


I owned a MacBook Air (yeah, I was an iSheep 8 years ago...) and it did not boot after about 14 months of usage. I was so regret that I did not purchase AppleCare on the MBA. Nevertheless, I never blame Apple. I know Macbooks indeed have a very low fault rate. I just had bad luck.

 

[Hirox K]

I'm not a fan of anything or anyone, I don't do those crazy stuff. I use Windows because there's no other OSes can suit my needs better than Windows. I'm a lead game programmer.

Well... I have several Alienwares, they work fine. One of'em had a RAM meltdown due to summer heat but I replaced it myself.

I have a Surface Pro 3 (not the 1st batch), and no update could break it. It's way passed its warranty but, still kicking.
One day, the USB on the power brick stopped charging. I recorded a video demonstrating why I think it's not working. CS questioned nothing and sent me a new one. One free power brick for me!

Eventually I bought the new Surface Pro. It had some issue early on but it's all fixed.

Kudos to the sleek design <- I do care about designs. Which is why I wouldn't mind paying $250 a bag.

Bonus.
My day 1 xb1 had an HDD bad sector. I go to MS's website and talked to the CS. I told her my diagnostic, and she forwarded me the instruction to my email without future questions. I brought my xbox to the nearest logistics at around 11PM and got my new box next day around 8AM.

So far so good doing business with MS and maybe because I'm a programmer myself. I know/understand why issue happens. And I know sometimes it will take a lot longer time to release a fix (even if it's a very easy bug), there's procedurals and procedurals exist for many reasons.

* And... programmers around me, newbies or veterans, will begin to hate Apple after touching Mac and XCode (esp XCode).

 

[Hirox K]

Also - and please don't take this the wrong way - but did you drop your Surface? Your particular constellation of problems sounds unusual.

It does sound like it... but, maybe not him but his kids?

 

[Old_Mil]

I can't say that I blame you. Microsoft's current management team has basically thrown everything under the bus to focus on cloud, web apps, and the corporate services market.

Right now we have an Xbox One, Lumia 925, Acer W4, a Lenovo X series, and a Lenovo 2 in 1, and an Intel NUC.

Three years from now, it is likely that only the NUC and the two Lenovos will still be in use. The latter two will be running Linux (one already is).

It's been a good run, but it's drawing to a close...not just for hardware, but for Windows as well.

 

[Wevenhuis]

I do not have a horror story.

I bought a surface pro 1 new in 2013. Worked fine. Still on windows 8.
I bought a second surface pro 1, second hand, early 2015 as my windows 10 insiders test machine.
Both still work fine today. No problems.

I bought a Surface pro 5, non LTE, in late 2017. Device works fine and great. Well, there was maybe a slight horror story that I was having issues with Edge browser, if I remember correctly. The weirdest experience for me was contacting microsoft support who had litle experience and told be to reinstall windows 10 on a brand new device. Mind blown! A frightning exprience, that one issue meant a complete reinstall on a brand new device. Not the end of the world, but an odd on in all my years of experience with higher end windows devices. It just didn't feel like proper customer care. All support was fortunately free. But I did feel like a kind of guinea pig on my new high end device. didn't feel right for such a minor issue. It did resolve my problem, but still.

Still happy with all three devies. I have never had needed or taken an extended warranty or insurance package.

 

[theefman]

They are over priced and tend to run out of date hardware and there are lots of better alternatives, reason enough for me not to buy a surface again.

Sent from mTalk

 

[AdamInTx]

We bought a bunch of them for a couple departments here at work. I would say based on my talking with our IT techs about 70-75% of them have had regular issues. I'm not talking about a single issue across all of them but a laundry list of issues, some with one or two, some with a bunch. We've got guys who are rough on stuff and guys who handle them with care and both types have issues. It has gotten so bad that the departments are now looking at ditching all of the surface devices and going with something different that is absolutely not made by MS. It's sad really, I was so excited when they announced they were buying surfaces but all I hear is people complaining about how much they stink.

 

[Amirsalarsh]

Surface book 2 15" is my second surface after surface pro 4. I needed sth that could do proper photo editing with a big and accurate display. I also needed good battery life for college and a full pen support for writing notes in class. The only device that offers these all together plus a GTX 1060 that crushes almost every game withing reasonable frame rates is the SB2. Everything works beautifully now but I had to replace 5 units to get proper thermals and reliable detachability. Since I use the detachable display almost every day in class, I needed it to be reliable and not bug down on me when professor is teaching. After replacing my units 5 times, I still have issues when in presentation mode, but since the detachability works fine, I have no complaints. I just wish they had done a better job manufacturing these devices since they are expensive. The other problem that I have is the warranty as in their return period is only 15 or 30days. For 2500$ and up, I expect a much better warranty.

 

[sd4f]

My surface 3 USB port failed with a 'power surge failure', and then soon after it became unusable as the device shuts it self off after a minute in desktop, probably to protect it self from an over current situation.


This happened about a year after the warranty expired. Because we have consumer protection laws in Australia I went to Microsoft, but they don't want to do anything about it. Fortunately I can take it higher.


I think I'm inclined to start believing the consumer reports survey, because just like the Xbox 360 RROD and how many of them failed, MS is not good with hardware. Unfortunately when I listen to the Windows Central podcasts and they start defending MS, they really come across like apple fanboys in that regard.


If you use your devices heavily, and keep on churning them so as to stay in warranty, you should be ok, but clearly, they're not lasting very well beyond warranty. I think it's a feature, as the design being unopenable and unrepairable makes it really seem like MS doesn't want these things to last too long.

 

[moruobai]

I hear ya. Bought a Surface Pro 4 in 2016. Wireless chip broke in the first 2 weeks! Took it back to the Microsoft Store and showed them it's behavior and they were like "Yeah, that's not right." To their credit they swapped it out for a new one within a few minutes. Haven't had any hardware problems with the replacement as of Oct-18.

In my opinion Consumer Reports were spot on: as evidenced by my own experience and things like, oh, Flicker-gate. I really like a lot of the innovation that Microsoft brought to the space, and these machines are gorgeous too--but they have serious reliability issues.

 

[Manmute]

@ tophera,
Your not alone I experience very similar issue with my surface book too and men I can tell you mine was actually MS fault due to software update failing on my device which would & will cause it to over-heat & switch off.

At first I couldn’t understand while it will just ditch itself off but I then started paying more attention and when I looked at my task manager I started to review every that will cause cpu & disk space memory to hit the 100 percent usage by stopping a list of program including startup and back ground program. Only established the main cause with other MS surface user highlighting update installation causing so much havoc.

I called Ms customers service & WOW the they tell me where to go as my £2k+ device it outside the 1year warranty and that it’s a hardware fault causing the system to over heat and a £600+ would get me a refurbish with a 3months warranty, Wow! No guarantee that after 3 months if the exact fault should reoccur that MS will either fix or replace it but instead I will be out of pocket once more.

Even after hard reset and system recovery with new window 10 installation loosing all my program and to only then realise that the initial issue was and is still caused by MS software update 1703 & 180. Window Os April creation version update.

So at this very moment am unable to install any update as my 2015 Surface book overheats and switches off. Was told it’s definitely a hardware issue.

The idea of spending that amount of money to be forced to replace just over a year to two years is ridiculous and although I have always been an MS advocate and reluctantly had to switch from window mobile to Apple iPhone, I now find myself totally not wanting to invest in any sort of Microsoft hardware, reason simply being after care is the worst I’ve ever experienced as an end user.

Last result is an attempt to down load October release on to a usb stick and try to do an upgrade, who knows if that might temporarily fix any bugs!
Finally the idea that a company like Microsoft do not have a Uk retail branch in 2018 puzzles me when the likes of Apple or Samsung has quite a few to mention.

Microsoft you have to listen, react and get back to your loyal customer.

 

[Manmute]

I’m considering this a cathartic experience, however there are some nuggets of wisdom in it, if anyone cares to read.

First – I’ve been a Windows fan all my life. I’ve never bought into the stylized veneer of other products. I’ve just wanted things to work, and work well. Sometimes MS has hit and sometimes missed, but it’s always worked to get better. I’ve been a small business owner, and now a senior executive at a major technology provider, always promoting MS tech and I’ve cheered MS’s new direction under Satya, and hope for great things to come.

However, I won’t buy anymore Windows hardware….ever.

With the surface book was first announced I jumped onboard. I even flew from SLC to Denver chasing down an “in stock” phantom, eventually having to purchase one on best buy and wait. When I got it, it was everything I hoped it would be.

But within a short period of time hardware issues started to creep in, and then almost as if by design, as the warranty expired, the $3,000 laptop became unusable. I’m not talking about minor things, for example - I’m talking about horrible light bleed and screen disfiguration (happy to send photos). The dock becoming inoperable. Random disconnecting and connecting of peripherals, and the keyboard --- oh man, just bump this thing and poof – it’s gone. Multiple failures/quality issues across the board.

I’ve never had a piece of hardware fail like my Surface Book. I also know that I’m not alone. Your response to consumer reports downgrade, and complaint forums – the very fact I can’t even find an email address that doesn’t infer some sort of fee to complain is disheartening. I’ve tried over the past year to offer feedback and it’s such a pain that I give up.

$3,000 for an early adopter experience like this was is a bummer.

So, as I salivate over the new surface products, the surface pro, the new Surface Go (which I think has hit the mark), I go onto the website and into the store to purchase… then I look at the yellow stains on my screen, the customer service experience, and think about disappointment of the Surface Book meltdown, I think… don’t let my love for MS sucker me into that again.

So I don’t buy. I don’t recommend. I waste money on competitors, that should go to MS.

Even trying to send an email to the MS deathstar makes me realize to trust logic and reason and not my emotional attachment to MS. I’m not asking for my money back, just a “yea we know, please trust us again” would be a start.

Actually, how about a customer service email address I don’t have to go through a “choose your own adventure” questionnaire that tells me that fees will apply, and terminates. Ironic the only email I can find is that of the CEO, who undoubtedly has better things to do than resolve the concerns of a disillusioned consumer.

 

[Manmute]

I’m considering this a cathartic experience, however there are some nuggets of wisdom in it, if anyone cares to read.

First – I’ve been a Windows fan all my life. I’ve never bought into the stylized veneer of other products. I’ve just wanted things to work, and work well. Sometimes MS has hit and sometimes missed, but it’s always worked to get better. I’ve been a small business owner, and now a senior executive at a major technology provider, always promoting MS tech and I’ve cheered MS’s new direction under Satya, and hope for great things to come.

However, I won’t buy anymore Windows hardware….ever.

With the surface book was first announced I jumped onboard. I even flew from SLC to Denver chasing down an “in stock” phantom, eventually having to purchase one on best buy and wait. When I got it, it was everything I hoped it would be.

But within a short period of time hardware issues started to creep in, and then almost as if by design, as the warranty expired, the $3,000 laptop became unusable. I’m not talking about minor things, for example - I’m talking about horrible light bleed and screen disfiguration (happy to send photos). The dock becoming inoperable. Random disconnecting and connecting of peripherals, and the keyboard --- oh man, just bump this thing and poof – it’s gone. Multiple failures/quality issues across the board.

I’ve never had a piece of hardware fail like my Surface Book. I also know that I’m not alone. Your response to consumer reports downgrade, and complaint forums – the very fact I can’t even find an email address that doesn’t infer some sort of fee to complain is disheartening. I’ve tried over the past year to offer feedback and it’s such a pain that I give up.

$3,000 for an early adopter experience like this was is a bummer.

So, as I salivate over the new surface products, the surface pro, the new Surface Go (which I think has hit the mark), I go onto the website and into the store to purchase… then I look at the yellow stains on my screen, the customer service experience, and think about disappointment of the Surface Book meltdown, I think… don’t let my love for MS sucker me into that again.

So I don’t buy. I don’t recommend. I waste money on competitors, that should go to MS.

Even trying to send an email to the MS deathstar makes me realize to trust logic and reason and not my emotional attachment to MS. I’m not asking for my money back, just a “yea we know, please trust us again” would be a start.

Actually, how about a customer service email address I don’t have to go through a “choose your own adventure” questionnaire that tells me that fees will apply, and terminates. Ironic the only email I can find is that of the CEO, who undoubtedly has better things to do than resolve the concerns of a disillusioned consumer.

@ tophera,
Your not alone I experience very similar issue with my surface book too and men I can tell you mine was actually MS fault due to software update failing on my device which would & will cause it to over-heat & switch off.

At first I couldn’t understand while it will just ditch itself off but I then started paying more attention and when I looked at my task manager I started to review every that will cause cpu & disk space memory to hit the 100 percent usage by stopping a list of program including startup and back ground program. Only established the main cause with other MS surface user highlighting update installation causing so much havoc.

I called Ms customers service & WOW the they tell me where to go as my £2k+ device it outside the 1year warranty and that it’s a hardware fault causing the system to over heat and a £600+ would get me a refurbish with a 3months warranty, Wow! No guarantee that after 3 months if the exact fault should reoccur that MS will either fix or replace it but instead I will be out of pocket once more.

Even after hard reset and system recovery with new window 10 installation loosing all my program and to only then realise that the initial issue was and is still caused by MS software update 1703 & 180. Window Os April creation version update.

So at this very moment am unable to install any update as my 2015 Surface book overheats and switches off. Was told it’s definitely a hardware issue.

The idea of spending that amount of money to be forced to replace just over a year to two years is ridiculous and although I have always been an MS advocate and reluctantly had to switch from window mobile to Apple iPhone, I now find myself totally not wanting to invest in any sort of Microsoft hardware, reason simply being after care is the worst I’ve ever experienced as an end user.

Last result is an attempt to down load October release on to a usb stick and try to do an upgrade, who knows if that might temporarily fix any bugs!
Finally the idea that a company like Microsoft do not have a Uk retail branch in 2018 puzzles me when the likes of Apple or Samsung has quite a few to mention.

Microsoft you have to listen, react and get back to your loyal customer.

 

[Joe920]

$3,000 for an early adopter experience like this was is a bummer.

Counterpoint: half a year ago I spent around $2500 on an X1 Yoga 3. The mouse pointer frequently goes on an eight second solo run, windows close because of ghost touches (non-user initiated touches), the color balance went crazy for a few months because of a driver issue, for a month the CPU would never lower it's clockspeed when plugged in causing the fan to continuously run due to an issue in their default Windows image. So my take was "Should have bought that Surface Book 2 instead". I guess what I'm saying is .. the grass doesn't look greener over here!

BTW based on your post the title should probably read Microsoft instead of Windows.

 

[TLRtheory]

Not at all... I've bought every single Surface product from the Surface RT to the Surface Go (minus Surface Studio) and had nothing but success. My Surface RT actually still works, and I keep it around from some ARM-chipset games that can't be played on x86/64 machines. Closest thing to issues I had were me blowing out the speakers in my Surface Pro 2 and the hinge close mechanism on my Surface Laptop failing, all of which Microsoft handled without charging me any kind of premium/deductible or trying to blame me (which is what Apple has done for every product I've bought from them that I experienced issues with). I've even, on occasion just asked if I could replace my device so I'd have a fresh one to sell, and they did that for me MULTIPLE times (likely because they knew I had no problem buying a new one full price). Microsoft went above and beyond for me in the customer service dept and created someone who will always say good things about Surface hardware. Closest thing to a horror story I have is getting cut off from previous Windows Store purchases, mainly Blazblue Calamity Trigger, which they try to tell me doesn't work with Windows 10 even as I'm using it with devices I've upgraded from Windows 8 to Windows 10.

Now where they did drop the ball was Windows Phone and the Microsoft Band 2. Damn I loved that Band 2 design, and I loved having a piece of Microsoft tech on my wrist... but they couldn't overcome that battery problem, and pretty much abandoned the sync service. If I was only invested in Surface products, I would've never, ever had a reason to ditch Windows... but I unfortunately was all in for Microsoft. Windows Phone, MS Band, Xbox only with no signs of Nintendo or Sony anywhere...

...but killing off windows phone meant severely weakening UWP... when they killed Windows Phone, "buy it on desktop, use it on mobile too" fell apart and my heart was no longer in it for Microsoft.

Of course... I still have attachment issues with the Surface+Windows Phone+MS Band ecosystem I loved so much, hence why present day "Apple person" me is still frequenting these forums from my MBP.