09-15-2011 04:25 AM
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  1. Sparxy19's Avatar
    Hi guys,
    I have been thinking about his a bit lately so i thaught i would see what you guys think....

    The attitude of the general public towards WP seems to be quite negative, they just dont seem to be even willing to give it a chance. Often when looking for a new phone they just kinda skip over WP and look at the other big two. For example....

    One of my freinds accidently sent his iPhone 4 for a swim the other day so he decided he would get a new phone. He straight away asked me what he should get because i had been doing a fair bit of research trying to decide which phone i should get, so i told him to have a look at WP7 and his reply to that was "na i meant should i get another iPhone or should i switch to android?". I tried to Explain to him that WP7 was good but he just didnt care, so anyway he ended up getting an Android phone. I asked him afterward why he didn't consider a WP and he didnt really have a reason so i asked him if he had even ever used one and he said "na they are crap anyway", i was confused. Today he grabbed one of his mates WP's (which was pre NoDo BTW) and the first thing he said was "wow maybe i should have baught one of these, these are awesome" that was after he had been using it for aboout 30 seconds.

    What i can't understand is why people aren't willing to even consider a WP. Is it the lack of advertising? The image Microsoft has made for itself or even the reccolections of WM that come to people when they here the name WP?
    What do you guys think about this? How do you guys think Microsoft can fix this problem?
    08-30-2011 03:31 AM
  2. pikacz's Avatar
    this is sad but true. i don't think it's because of poor advertising, it's because of the atitude of people like your friend. i don't care in the slightest that they're missing a great experience with WP7 due to their shorsightness and choose a different OS. some of them will eventually give WP7 a try and will probably love it, but fanboys will be fanboys. MS is doing excellent work in my opinion so far, advertising is great and the OS is getting unbelievably better with every update
    08-30-2011 03:52 AM
  3. Garrett92C's Avatar
    As a webOS user of over two years, I've heard this almost exact story hundreds of times before. The general public seem to only acknowledge Android and iOS.... :(

    One of the common denominators was the sales person. They will actively steer customers to Android and iOS while discouraging anything else. I don't know why that is. Maybe they make better commission off those two platforms? Maybe they're just not familiar with webOS/WP7? Who knows...
    08-30-2011 04:09 AM
  4. Sparxy19's Avatar
    I also think that the awareness of WP is a bit low especcially compared to the iFruit and Android and i think a little more advertising as well as reps that are willing ot push WP because if people aren't aware that it even exists then they are definately not going to give it go.
    08-30-2011 04:59 AM
  5. Pronk's Avatar
    I think there are two elements to this:

    1. Microsoft has a bad reputation. Not just for not being "cool", but for not really making great products. A lot of people looking at WP7 phones will have, for example, been burned by the clunkiness of Vista, had to work with a low-end Dell running Windows XP in an office, had Word crash and lose hours of work. They may also have had an Xbox 360 burn out on them with the RROD, or bought a Plays for Sure device only to have that entire ecosystem binned. And the least said about the Kin 1 and Kin 2 the better. WP7 is very different to that, and Microsoft do seem to be making a great deal of headway in designing products around people rather than enterprise partners now, and making those products better and less "me too", but that negative press is going to take some time to overcome.

    2. The advertising they do produce is still pretty clumsy. Take the current ads (admittedly for PCs rather than phones) where they put a PC shop in someone's house. What's the first thing they say - that this person's PC is 4 years old and updating. That immediately tells you not about a great new product you'll WANT to buy, but that some sales nerd is pitching up in your house to tell you your previous, probably quite expensive investment that probably still does everything you need it to is now worthless in his opinion. They also focus on gimmicks rather than what people would really need to hear and see - that their products are more stable, have a better lifespan, and are more intuitive and elegant to use.

    Apple's advertising is excellent - they show people actually using their stuff. Microsoft need to be brave enough to let their products speak for themselves in the same way. In WP7, they have a product that's more than good enough to do that. Take this ad:



    Barely shows the OS or why it's better, and even more stupidly it immediately implies Windows Phone won't hold your attention - which could easily be misinterpreted as it isn't very good or interesting. You don't convince people to switch by making them look stupid - you convince them to switch by making what they don't have look much much better.
    HeyCori, Enemy Zero, Apoc and 4 others like this.
    08-30-2011 05:59 AM
  6. Sparxy19's Avatar
    I 100% agree that apples advertising is a LOT better, there ability to make something that is not that amazing look AMAZING is outstanding, imagine what they could do if they did that with WP
    08-30-2011 06:04 AM
  7. theefman's Avatar
    The theme is always the same, people love it when they try it but the initial difficulty is getting them to try it. Thats due to several reasons, one of which is poor and minimal advertising and promotion, biased feelings about the previous OS and Microsoft, and misrepresentation by the press and sales reps.

    As far as I can see, none of these things is being addressed so expect more of the same.
    08-30-2011 06:57 AM
  8. palandri's Avatar
    The theme is always the same, people love it when they try it but the initial difficulty is getting them to try it. Thats due to several reasons, one of which is poor and minimal advertising and promotion, biased feelings about the previous OS and Microsoft, and misrepresentation by the press and sales reps.

    As far as I can see, none of these things is being addressed so expect more of the same.
    I think you're right, but I think Nokia and Microsoft are going to have a big advertising blitz right before Christmas to get Nokia back into the U.S. marketplace and make windows mobile more appealing. It's just a guess, but I bet it happens.
    08-30-2011 07:40 AM
  9. Scout_313's Avatar
    From what I can tell, most people don't even realize that WP7 is even out there. I really wouldn't have known it existed if I weren't a tech freak and bounced around to different websites. I found this network of sites starting out on CrackBerry.com and then just starting going to the other sites just to check out the other OS offerings.
    08-30-2011 07:46 AM
  10. jimmy1one's Avatar
    I've had a completely different experience using my Focus. Everyone wants to know what kind of phone allows you to do that , what app are you using. Or, are you jugging me no phone does that and sweet I gotta have one. I allowed a lady to use mine in Sam's, she went right over to the phone center after her call she could not get a signal with her Iphone. BTW it's not and issue of the provider or the OS people believe in windows it's just that they have not seen the phone in action or the size of the screens.
    08-30-2011 07:55 AM
  11. theefman's Avatar
    I think you're right, but I think Nokia and Microsoft are going to have a big advertising blitz right before Christmas to get Nokia back into the U.S. marketplace and make windows mobile more appealing. It's just a guess, but I bet it happens.
    I'm highly skeptical that years of ios and android mindshare and hype will be reversed or impacted with a several week ad campaign. I feel MS/Nokia should have been touting the OS as a "coming soon" special event for months preceding device availability. The holiday season will be likely packed with iphone 5 and various android superphone adverts, and people are already trained to go for those and will actually be looking out for these devices. WP7's message is going to be hard to get through amongst all the "droid does" and the "if you dont have an iphone" ads.
    08-30-2011 08:03 AM
  12. selfcreation's Avatar
    im gona go ahead and say its MS image.

    i have allot of friends that converted to MAC for all the electronique because they got fed up with MS and now.. they wont even look at MS

    i showed them my WP , they love it but because its MS they dotn even want to touch it. even if they come otu wiht the BESt system int he world ( witch i thibk they did ;) ) they dotn care..


    ** I want an Iphone 4 ** lol ...:

    sad.
    08-30-2011 08:08 AM
  13. palandri's Avatar
    I'm highly skeptical that years of ios and android mindshare and hype will be reversed or impacted with a several week ad campaign. I feel MS/Nokia should have been touting the OS as a "coming soon" special event for months preceding device availability. The holiday season will be likely packed with iphone 5 and various android superphone adverts, and people are already trained to go for those and will actually be looking out for these devices. WP7's message is going to be hard to get through amongst all the "droid does" and the "if you dont have an iphone" ads.
    It will be an uphill battle, that's for sure, but with the right ads they could make an impact. Look at the Verizon "can you hear me now" ads. They certainly convinced people that Verizon had the best network.
    08-30-2011 08:22 AM
  14. jimmy1one's Avatar
    I'm highly skeptical that years of ios and android mindshare and hype will be reversed or impacted with a several week ad campaign. I feel MS/Nokia should have been touting the OS as a "coming soon" special event for months preceding device availability. The holiday season will be likely packed with iphone 5 and various android superphone adverts, and people are already trained to go for those and will actually be looking out for these devices. WP7's message is going to be hard to get through amongst all the "droid does" and the "if you dont have an iphone" ads.
    I've been at this a long time, it's the first time I've seen people say MS can not market, compete or dominate a platform in a long time. The issue is does the phone and the built-in apps work and work as advertised out of the box. Seeing is believing, hands on is show and tell and this phone says it with class and does not crash. Can you say your Andy or IPhone is as stable, looks as impressive and works as well. It makes no difference if there are a million apps if the the phone does not work and the apps are dups where's the value. Everyone who sees mine in action asks about the phone without exception.
    08-30-2011 08:24 AM
  15. jalb's Avatar
    To be honest, I find the M$ hate to be hilarious. Everyone LURVES to be right up there talking about how horrible they are, typing it all out from their... Windows PC....


    LOL.
    08-30-2011 08:28 AM
  16. palandri's Avatar
    Keep in mind that Microsoft has the economic resources to dominate any marketplace they choose. They can take losses over a longer period of time compared to other companies that need to see a more immediate return on their investment. I do think they want to have a more dominate role in the mobile arena and i think they are going to get that with Nokia. I think Nokia is still pretty dominant worldwide.
    08-30-2011 08:45 AM
  17. hes so hott's Avatar
    im gona go ahead and say its MS image.

    i have allot of friends that converted to MAC for all the electronique because they got fed up with MS and now.. they wont even look at MS

    i showed them my WP , they love it but because its MS they dotn even want to touch it. even if they come otu wiht the BESt system int he world ( witch i thibk they did ;) ) they dotn care..


    ** I want an Iphone 4 ** lol ...:

    sad.
    I think that this is it for the most part. More adverts would help.
    08-30-2011 08:47 AM
  18. thed's Avatar
    If someone has that kind of attitude, there's nothing you can say to convince them. There's only one way to convince someone like that to check it out. You have actually have to hand them your phone and let them try it out for a bit.

    I think a lot has to do with the MS reputation. Part of that is MS's fault. Vista did have some issues that turned some people off. Part of it is Apple's silly "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" commercials that convinced people that Macs are better (debatable) and more secure (definitely not true). MS doesn't really excite the average consumer either. Before WP7, the only product MS had that really got people excited was the XBox.

    Last but not least, the name. Way too many people still think Windows Phone == Windows Mobile, and that's a problem. They should have chosen something more distinct.
    08-30-2011 08:49 AM
  19. hes so hott's Avatar
    Keep in mind that Microsoft has the economic resources to dominate any marketplace they choose. They can take losses over a longer period of time compared to other companies that need to see a more immediate return on their investment. I do think they want to have a more dominate role in the mobile arena and i think they are going to get that with Nokia. I think Nokia is still pretty dominant worldwide.
    Nokia is not factor here in the US. Some here on this forum focus on Nokia like they're going to be the savior, but the fact of the matter is that tech nerds are the Nokia honks and the general public that'll be buying these phones are Nokia honks like most tech nerds.

    WP7 will not grow based on a single phone manufacturer. It has to grow organically just like Android. When people think of Android they don't think of one particular manufacturer. It's many that make up the whole and for WinP7 to succeed that'll have to be the case.
    Judge_Daniel likes this.
    08-30-2011 08:51 AM
  20. hes so hott's Avatar
    If someone has that kind of attitude, there's nothing you can say to convince them. There's only one way to convince someone like that to check it out. You have actually have to hand them your phone and let them try it out for a bit.

    I think a lot has to do with the MS reputation. Part of that is MS's fault. Vista did have some issues that turned some people off. Part of it is Apple's silly "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" commercials that convinced people that Macs are better (debatable) and more secure (definitely not true). MS doesn't really excite the average consumer either. Before WP7, the only product MS had that really got people excited was the XBox.

    Last but not least, the name. Way too many people still think Windows Phone == Windows Mobile, and that's a problem. They should have chosen something more distinct.
    I agree with this. I use Vista and it functions properly for me. I use Xbox 360 and while my 2005 360 RROD on me I bought a new on in Feb. I don't hold any of that against MS, but for some reason a lot people do. I also think that with Apple becoming so trendy and the commercials for Iphone, Ipad and the 'I am a Mac" people feel the need to go in that direction and pay $1,300 for a 13in slim computer bc they feel cool by turning away MS.

    People choose Android bc it is so prevalent. You can't walk into a retailer without seeing it. People see the commercials and that drives more sales. Android is the only game at most of the 4th and 5th tier carriers such as Metro PCS and Boost Mobile.
    08-30-2011 08:57 AM
  21. Sparxy19's Avatar
    Thats exactly right... People just dont seem to know they even exist so i think that MS have to get there act together and spend some big money developing the best advertising campaign the world has ever seen otherwise WP will just keep plodding along at the same pace (which doesnt really worry me aslong as they dont decide to scrap it). Microsoft have the money to do this so why dont they hurry up and do it???
    08-30-2011 08:58 AM
  22. palandri's Avatar
    Nokia is not factor here in the US. Some here on this forum focus on Nokia like they're going to be the savior, but the fact of the matter is that tech nerds are the Nokia honks and the general public that'll be buying these phones are Nokia honks like most tech nerds.

    WP7 will not grow based on a single phone manufacturer. It has to grow organically just like Android. When people think of Android they don't think of one particular manufacturer. It's many that make up the whole and for WinP7 to succeed that'll have to be the case.
    You're right, Nokia isn't a factor in the U.S.. When people in the U.S. hear Nokia, they think of the Nokia Theatre in LA. Thinking "worldwide" Nokia is pretty dominant, which will give Microsoft a bigger piece of the mobile marketplace, plus I am sure they will gain a share of the U.S. marketplace with their new windows phone. We'll see what happens after another year.
    08-30-2011 09:01 AM
  23. jimmy1one's Avatar
    I agree with this. I use Vista and it functions properly for me. I use Xbox 360 and while my 2005 360 RROD on me I bought a new on in Feb. I don't hold any of that against MS, but for some reason a lot people do. I also think that with Apple becoming so trendy and the commercials for Iphone, Ipad and the 'I am a Mac" people feel the need to go in that direction and pay $1,300 for a 13in slim computer bc they feel cool by turning away MS.

    People choose Android bc it is so prevalent. You can't walk into a retailer without seeing it. People see the commercials and that drives more sales. Android is the only game at most of the 4th and 5th tier carriers such as Metro PCS and Boost Mobile.
    The answer seems to be WP 7 is a first gen OS that holds it's own and then some with the competition. Mango will be a boost but time and hands on review along with word of mouth is going to push WP 7. If the next upgrade is also available without having to get a new phone then we can all come back here and have the conversation again. You can say what you will but upgrading without having to purchase a new phone is a big deal unless someone else is paying the bill. I think this is one time MS has the pulse if not the vibe. No fear of being sued for monopoly so loose the hounds let em go I say. Throw the sink at the problem and the competition, let's see who is left standing. Damn I love being on the edge let's get ready to rumble
    08-30-2011 09:19 AM
  24. Pronk's Avatar
    I agree with this. I use Vista and it functions properly for me. I use Xbox 360 and while my 2005 360 RROD on me I bought a new on in Feb. I don't hold any of that against MS, but for some reason a lot people do.
    Well to be honest, you should hold it against them because it's their fault - and this is one of the big points I'm making. The original design of the Xbox 360 was rushed to get it to market before the PS3, hence the design flaw that literally snaps it apart if it overheats. I know people who've gone through three or four xboxes, and it has cost Microsoft millions in replacements and god knows how much more in lost revenue. And how long has it taken to get to the current actually quite decent 360 design. Three goes? Vista was a much delayed, bloated operating system that was replaced very quickly because of its lukewarm reviews and lukewarm performance. Sure, Windows 7 is much, much better and more streamlined - but then it had to be.

    These were serious knockbacks but deserved knockbacks. Microsoft was behaving like it was still the late 1990s/early 2000s where it could just throw money at a market until it dominated it then sit back and release products that were alright. Not any more. Now it has to be at least as good as everyone else, if not better, because it has serious competition on almost all fronts. And we, as consumers, absolutely need to not give Microsoft (or any other company) a free ride. We need to make sure if something is poor, they know it and learn from it. And if they don't - they don't deserve to do well in the marketplace.
    08-30-2011 09:44 AM
  25. smartpatrol's Avatar
    You're right, Nokia isn't a factor in the U.S.. When people in the U.S. hear Nokia, they think of the Nokia Theatre in LA. Thinking "worldwide" Nokia is pretty dominant, which will give Microsoft a bigger piece of the mobile marketplace, plus I am sure they will gain a share of the U.S. marketplace with their new windows phone. We'll see what happens after another year.
    True, but this is mainly because Nokia has only sold their high-end phones unlocked in the USA. You couldn't get them subsidized through carriers, the way the vast majority prefer to do it in the USA. Heck, the only place I have actually seen an N8 was a non-functioning display model at Fry's. . . on a display separate from the other smartphones and from the cell phone sales people.

    Nokia has said that they are taking a US-centric approach this time around. They're going to sell their Windows phones subsidized by carriers. And they and MS supposedly have money set aside for a huge advertising blitz. I really think Nokia's smartphones can be a hit in the USA. The hardware quality is amazing.

    MS has a solid, compelling product. All that's missing is marketing. They need to convince people that WP7 is something they should desire. That it's something people choose because they WANT it. They managed to do it with Xbox, they can do it again.
    08-30-2011 10:02 AM
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