Surface Duo is on salefor over 50% off!

08-01-2013 05:30 PM
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  1. Schmitty63's Avatar
    If they don't get this voice mail message as email attachment .wav file issue squared away they will be once again shooting themselves in the foot. I cannot play attached voice mails on my WP, which are generated as .wav files by our new Shoretel system, while everyone at my firm with an iPhone or Android can. The single biggest impediment to others switching to WP at my firm.
    THIS and notifications is all i need to make this perfect platform my needs. I voted "yes" on another thread about stating with WP, but these two items are a necessity. Actually the .wav file is a necessity, notifications would be secondary.
    07-24-2013 12:04 PM
  2. a5cent's Avatar
    There has been a few articles going around saying that MS is trying to include WP Blue with GDR3. I really, really, really hope so. MS needs some fire under their butts.
    That isn't what those articles said.

    Microsoft is adding almost all new features to WP8.1. But WP8.1 isn't just about adding new features to the OS. It is also about evolving the OS itself.

    Due to all the outrage, Microsoft is now looking to take some of those features and ship them together with GDR3. However, because those features are being developed for WP8.1, which is further evolved than WP8.0 / GDR3, Microsoft must adapt those features back to the current OS structure of WP8.0, which is also a lot of work. So, basically, in order to give us some WP8.1 features a bit sooner, as part of GDR3, Microsoft will end up doing some things twice, slowing the overall progress of WP even further. That isn't a good thing, so Microsoft will focus on just a small subset of features, and those features won't necessarily be those on our most-wanted lists, but those which are most easily backported to WP8.0.

    This has been part of Microsoft's problem all along. They have always been developing user facing features on top of an operating system that is constantly shifting under their feet. That is a lot more work than doing some recoloring and slight OS tweaking, and then focusing all your remaining resources on user facing functionality and apps. Android and iOS are in the enviable position of being able to do that. Microsoft isn't, or at least they aren't if they want to realize their vision of a unified OS spanning smartphones, tablets and desktops.

    I'm not trying to excuse Microsoft here. I do agree that they need to change some of their priorities and at least address those issues which don't go any deeper than the UI (like volume controls).
    Last edited by a5cent; 07-24-2013 at 05:25 PM. Reason: Spelling
    N_LaRUE and Mahdi Ghiasi like this.
    07-24-2013 04:52 PM
  3. Strings78's Avatar
    MS needs to get the carriers out of the way like Apple has done. The carriers only interest is selling new devices on contracts. They have ZERO interest in allowing device updates. MS needs to push some of it's weight around and gang up on the carriers WITH Apple. This whole situation is a massive load of crap.
    I could not agree with this more!!! Microsoft needs to take the middle man out of it and push updates straight to the consumers. That would solve a lot of headaches on all ends
    07-24-2013 04:56 PM
  4. a5cent's Avatar
    I could not agree with this more!!! Microsoft needs to take the middle man out of it and push updates straight to the consumers. That would solve a lot of headaches on all ends
    At one point during the WP7 era, it looked like that was exactly what they were going to do. In fact, that is what first got me interested in WP. Unfortunately, it looks like they are going in the exact opposite direction.
    07-24-2013 05:02 PM
  5. Kevin N Smith's Avatar
    I'll wait until W8.1 until I decide weather I want to keep with Windows Phone or not. They would also need to speed the updates up past then if they want to keep gaining marketshare and such.
    Mahdi Ghiasi likes this.
    07-24-2013 05:18 PM
  6. Aaron Bateman's Avatar
    I could not agree with this more!!! Microsoft needs to take the middle man out of it and push updates straight to the consumers. That would solve a lot of headaches on all ends
    I do not see why it is an issue. They have the infrastructure in place to do this already. Just point the damn things at windows update.

    Imagine if Windows/SQL/etc had to have Dell and HP approve the updates before being pushed out... *shudder*
    07-24-2013 06:38 PM
  7. a5cent's Avatar
    I do not see why it is an issue. They have the infrastructure in place to do this already. Just point the damn things at windows update.
    It's a political and a legal issue. It isn't a technical issue.

    Until recently, all WP updates were delivered to all users directly from Microsoft's servers. They already had functionality similar to "Windows Update in place for WP:

    1. MS releases an update to the OEM
    2. OEM installs update on their devices, tests it and then sends it to carriers for additional testing
    3. Carriers sign off on the update and give MS the permission to distribute the update on their network
    4. MS flips a switch which starts the OS update rollout (for a specific device and for a specific carrier)

    It has always been that way since WP7. Since GDR2 some things have changed however, so I don't know exactly what the situation is now. From what I understand MS is loosing even more flexibility. :-(
    07-24-2013 07:17 PM
  8. tgp's Avatar
    It's a political and a legal issue. It isn't a technical issue.

    Until recently, all WP updates were delivered to all users directly from Microsoft's servers. They already had functionality similar to "Windows Update in place for WP:

    1. MS releases an update to the OEM
    2. OEM installs update on their devices, tests it and then sends it to carriers for additional testing
    3. Carriers sign off on the update and give MS the permission to distribute the update on their network
    4. MS flips a switch which starts the OS update rollout (for a specific device and for a specific carrier)

    It has always been that way since WP7. Since GDR2 some things have changed however, so I don't know exactly what the situation is now. From what I understand MS is loosing even more flexibility. :-(
    The way I understand it this is pretty much how Apple rolls out updates. They of course don't have the OEMs to go through, but the update does go to the carriers with a strict timeline of when to have it approved. Google is working on reducing fragmentation of Android with Nexus and Google Editions of other OEM devices, but so far they've barely scratched the surface. It's interesting that Microsoft seems to be moving away from this update method.
    07-24-2013 09:38 PM
  9. a5cent's Avatar
    The way I understand it this is pretty much how Apple rolls out updates. They of course don't have the OEMs to go through, but the update does go to the carriers with a strict timeline of when to have it approved. Google is working on reducing fragmentation of Android with Nexus and Google Editions of other OEM devices, but so far they've barely scratched the surface. It's interesting that Microsoft seems to be moving away from this update method.
    I don't think 'interesting' is the word I would have used. Tragic seems more fitting :-/

    I don't know anything technical in regard to how Apple does their updates. That you say the process is similar doesn't surprise me.

    In contrast to Apple, MS bends over whenever a carrier tells them to (more sad than it is surprising, as MS has no leverage with carriers).

    For WP there are no update timelines. For WP there is no alternative to OTA updates, so ever since WP8, carriers are in full control of the update process (giant step backward from WP7). For WP carriers have no obligation to even test an update, much less distribute it if they don't want to.

    It's quite pathetic.
    07-24-2013 10:25 PM
  10. jmshub's Avatar
    The sad part is what others have said, it's not Microsoft's inability to ship. It's the carriers just sitting on the update and refusing to deliver. It's a shame. It's the same problem from day one of WP7. I don't know how to solve the issue. Microsoft can't just strong arm the carriers. Carriers appear to be immune to bad customer reviews. The harder they are hated by the customers, the happier they all seem to be!
    07-24-2013 10:33 PM
  11. tgp's Avatar
    I don't think 'interesting' is the word I would have used. Tragic seems more fitting :-/
    Well yeah your description is more accurate.

    For WP there are no update timelines. For WP there is no alternative to OTA updates, so ever since WP8, carriers are in full control of the update process (giant step backward from WP7). For WP carriers have no obligation to even test an update, much less distribute it if they don't want to.
    In this paragraph you could replace WP with Android, and it would describe the situation exactly. However, Google is trying to get out of the muddle, but it seems Microsoft is moving in. Is Microsoft worried about alienating themselves from OEMs and/or carriers? They can't afford to lose any market share or sales. Carriers for the most part dance to Apple's fiddle so they don't need to worry about that.
    07-24-2013 11:12 PM
  12. Sgele's Avatar
    I don't have GDR2/Amber but Datasense is already on my phone.
    How does that happen?
    Jonathan Piferrer likes this.
    07-25-2013 02:52 AM
  13. Chregu's Avatar
    I don't have GDR2/Amber but Datasense is already on my phone.
    How does that happen?
    They just made it broader available, whatever the hell that means.
    Jonathan Piferrer likes this.
    07-25-2013 03:41 AM
  14. GReeN SCoRPioN 8K's Avatar
    Some Carriers Shipped DataSense with WP8 Release last year, GDR2 only adds more Carriers.
    07-25-2013 03:45 AM
  15. psudotechzealot's Avatar
    I don't know what to believe anymore.
    07-25-2013 06:39 AM
  16. enthuz's Avatar
    Some Carriers Shipped DataSense with WP8 Release last year, GDR2 only adds more Carriers.
    I noticed that Sprint released Data Sense on the 8XT. I wouldn't have thought that they would have allowed it. I wonder if it works right?

    Sent from my PG86100 using WPCentral Forums mobile app
    07-25-2013 07:41 AM
  17. AngryNil's Avatar
    Confirmed: there are new features coming in GDR3!

    Sorry Belfiore, but hardware is hardly the major problem. Your software is buggy and incomplete. See primary examples a) other storage and b) fragmented background downloading experience (managed in individual apps, maps don't download in background, etc.).
    pankaj981 likes this.
    07-25-2013 08:13 AM
  18. pankaj981's Avatar
    I don't have GDR2/Amber but Datasense is already on my phone.
    How does that happen?
    You might be using a Verizon phone
    07-25-2013 08:21 AM
  19. foxbat121's Avatar
    The sad part is what others have said, it's not Microsoft's inability to ship. It's the carriers just sitting on the update and refusing to deliver. It's a shame. It's the same problem from day one of WP7. I don't know how to solve the issue. Microsoft can't just strong arm the carriers. Carriers appear to be immune to bad customer reviews. The harder they are hated by the customers, the happier they all seem to be!
    The real sad part of that all resulted from consumers. As long as we are addicted to subsidized phones, we are forever enslaved to our carriers. So, carriers have all the power over us and MS or Google or Apple. For example, Unbranded Samsung and HTC WP8 phones have already received GDR2 updates shortly after MS released them. Even the almighty Google have to sell their own unbranded Nexus or Google Experience at full price in order to get away from carrier control. Verizon version of Galaxy Nexus is one example of how Google can't even push a single carrier to release update in timely fashion.

    Legally, a carrier branded phone is legally a phone custom made for that carrier, not to you end user. So OS and device makers can't update the device without the carrier's permission.
    07-25-2013 09:00 AM
  20. Jonathan Piferrer's Avatar
    I have a free unbranded Lumia 920 (Argentina) and it came installed with data sense sice first day...

    GDR2 will be received first by carriers?, or the phones "directly from manufacturer"?
    07-25-2013 09:00 AM
  21. foxbat121's Avatar
    I have a free unbranded Lumia 920 (Argentina) and it came installed with data sense sice first day...

    GDR2 will be received first by carriers?, or the phones "directly from manufacturer"?
    GDR2 is in manufacturer's hand already. How they send out the update is up to them. In the case of Samsung and HTC, they already released them to unbranded phones. Branded phones still need carrier's testing and permission. In the case of Nokia, it decided to include its own firmware updates called Amber for additional features and capabilities. So it will take additional time. But Nokia seems to prefer give carrier updates first before unbranded version, at least that's the case in US with AT&T updates comes out before anyone else.
    07-25-2013 09:15 AM
  22. Sgele's Avatar
    You might be using a Verizon phone
    I'm in Europe.... Unbranded.
    07-25-2013 10:24 PM
  23. KKRLessey's Avatar
    I'm on EE with my 920, desperately need a fix for other storage.
    08-01-2013 05:30 PM
48 12

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