09-09-2013 03:18 PM
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  1. hopmedic's Avatar
    What he's using as his citation is a poll here on WPC (http://forums.windowscentral.com/win...ery-drain.html) with less than 100 respondents at this point.
    Ah - so it's FUD. Thanks!
    09-04-2013 11:59 AM
  2. iamtim's Avatar
    Ah - so it's FUD. Thanks!
    Anytime.
    09-04-2013 12:07 PM
  3. a5cent's Avatar
    And forum posters are somehow better?
    I can't recall finding any of your posts worse. Lets see how you rebuttle your way out of that one! ;-)
    09-04-2013 12:25 PM
  4. hopmedic's Avatar
    My impressions, just touching on a few things...... First, as others have said, obviously a former Nokia employee with a grudge. Lost his job due to "Elop'pian" cuts, maybe? The biggest thing I see here is that anytime someone is so full of themselves ("I was the first", "I was most accurate"), I have a hard time giving any credibility to anything else they say, since they've obviously started out with lies.

    Here are some quotes that I really like </sarcasm>
    Can the sales of low-cost phones improve when resource-hog Windows software is shoe-horned into them? (ROFL!)

    Microsoft bought Skype in May of 2011 and after that the carriers have spoken. Loud and clear. (Two years after MS-Skype, Verizon says this.)

    Nokia's new MeeGo OS was so good the first handset on it, the N9 beat Apple's iPad for the best design in the 'Oscars' of design (who beats Apple in design?). (Microsoft?)
    Really, I don't see Skype as a problem for carriers. I mean, aren't plans shifting to data plans? I mean I shifted plans from a family plan with unlimited data and 1400 minutes to a family plan with unlimited minutes and limited data. I know I'm not the only situation, but it seems to me that more and more, it's data they're selling, not talk. I mean, can you even talk on a phone anymore? Does Skype work without some sort of data connection? I'll have to do some testing to try that out.......

    He says a lot of things that sound like they could make sense, unless you know more than what he's saying. He's not telling you that it was AFTER MS bought Skype that Verizon came out and said they were going to push Windows Phone (and they have). He's leading you to believe that Windows Phone is bloated when in actuality it requires far less computing power than Android.

    He's just a sore ex-employee on a rant. Nothing to see here - move along.
    MikeSo likes this.
    09-04-2013 12:27 PM
  5. wustlmike19's Avatar
    I hope its not true, but I don't know how much I trust Microsoft vs Nokia
    09-04-2013 12:36 PM
  6. hopmedic's Avatar
    Oh, there's a lot of truth to what he says (I'm not counting the causes that he alleges), but I'm not buying into his predictions. It's not that hard to be correct about the past.
    09-04-2013 12:58 PM
  7. tgp's Avatar
    I can't recall finding any of your posts worse. Lets see how you rebuttle your way out of that one! ;-)
    Let's see, I'm trying to figure out if this is condemnation or a compliment! I'll be the first to say that I'm not a WP fanboy. I do like WP and I carry one. In fact, I'd wager a bet that in the last 6 months I've bought more WP devices than 95% of the posters here. I'm beginning to think I'm singlehandedly increasing the market share! And I've bought 0 Androids in that time, even though that's my first preference. My employer is a Microsoft partner, and I have a couple Microsoft certifications, if that means anything...

    I do sometimes feel the some of the most ardent WP supporters go a bit beyond reality. Most users will agree WP has some catching up to do. To put down that is denial. In fact, iOS & Android have areas where they need to catch up, but overall they're more mature. I just get a bit defensive when Android is defined as laggy, buggy, crashy, virus infested, confusing (well maybe the SGS4 is!). Someone who describes Android it that way probably either:

    1. Bought a device that cost <$75 off contract
    2. Has never owned an Android and is basing their remarks off hearsay
      or
    3. Last owned one 3 years ago


    Android has come a long way in the last while. There's a reason it has nearly 80% market share.

    OK, I'll get off my high horse and let's go back to, what's the title of this thread, "Microsoft will fail with Nokia handsets"
    09-04-2013 12:58 PM
  8. uselessrobot's Avatar
    This is the smartest move either Microsoft or Nokia could have made. I don't think Nokia had any gas left in the tank to jump onto yet another platform; if Windows Phone didn't work for them that was it. Over the past few years it's been the Windows Phone line that's basically kept the mobile division afloat, they were failing everywhere else.

    As for Meego and Symbian and the phones running those OS's, they were technological dead ends. They might have been good operating systems with a lot of potential, but the market was such that they'd never thrive. Nokia didn't have the resources to make it happen. The only people I've ever seen who speak fondly of those operating systems have been technical people, meaning they're tinkerers by nature. Most consumers, however, don't want technical, they want something that just works. And they want apps. Those OS's were sorely lacking in that department and while Windows Phone is also at a disadvantage there is enough there that users can find most needs filled.

    As for Microsoft, the tighter integration is a huge asset. This has been a huge benefit for Apple all these years. Their biggest asset enjoying total control over aspect of development. Despite missteps with the OS, it's difficult to argue that the Surface isn't a very nice piece of equipment. So it's definitely in the company to do a great job.

    I think the biggest question will be, however, if Microsoft's various divisions can come together like they need to. There's been too much of an adversarial approach and not enough of a unified approach to their various offerings. The interesting thing is that I have a sneaking suspicion that Ballmer didn't support Microsoft's purchase of Nokia. I don't think it's a coincidence that he announced is resignation prior to this news. He's always been focused on the company's core offerings. So this could be a positive sign for the future of the company well beyond simply acquiring a mobile hardware division.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-04-2013 01:14 PM
  9. LastBattle's Avatar
    An extremely biased article.. Looking through it quickly, it just amazes me how much he've written.
    09-04-2013 01:33 PM
  10. Desmoface's Avatar
    Eh, I couldn't get past the first two paragraphs.

    Steve
    09-04-2013 02:11 PM
  11. a5cent's Avatar
    Let's see, I'm trying to figure out if this is condemnation or a compliment!
    I guess one could argue that being better than Tomi isn't saying much, but it was meant as a compliment... and as an answer to your question which implied that forum posters weren't any better. ;-)

    Sorry if that wasn't clear.
    tgp likes this.
    09-04-2013 03:23 PM
  12. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    When I saw the URL, I decided not to jump. Why?

    It's Tomi Ahonen. I know better than to trust him. Though, his claims have been right in the past .
    09-04-2013 03:27 PM
  13. Long Syntax's Avatar
    Let me see if I can sum Tomi Ahonen's arguments up for those who say tl;dr...

    • Microsoft is Evil, I hate Microsoft - they suck - did I say Microsoft is evil?
    • Elop is a jerk, he also sucks.
    • Microsoft loves Apple and Microsoft wants to be just like them but can't becasue they are incompetent - and did I say Evil?
    • Carriers Are Evil but Microsoft is more Evil - so I still hate Microsoft more.
    • I hate Windows Phone - it sucks.


    So lets see, did I get that about right?

    This guy is a tool on a rant - I wish I had the half hour of my life (that I spent reading this) back.
    09-04-2013 04:16 PM
  14. Angry_Mushroom's Avatar
    "Osbourne effect, Ratner Effect, Elop Effect, Burning Platform effect..." I think this guy has a lot of effects and made up terms... It's an editorial, and for the time being the industry has reacted either neutrally or positively to this. I personally think it will be time sooner than later to retire the Nokia Lumia name. If MS wants to dedicate itself to the Windows Phone platform it needs to do so with a unique, and house sourced project. They did well by buying the house. They have a solid base of engineering and quality at their disposal now. If they play their cards rights WP8 will indeed take up that area between Apple and Google. Looking forward to the future. I won't leave Windows Phone just because someone got bought out.

    TL;DR: Microsoft now has the perfect means to make the ultimate Windows Phone device.
    09-04-2013 04:40 PM
  15. hary536's Avatar
    He was not a Nokia employee that lost job after Elop came in.
    And there is a valid argument if not correct. He is right that Elop and MS have said that carriers were reluctant in adopting skype.
    That may also be the reason why Skype is still not integrated in WP. Also if you don't remember, when Nokia was selling Symbian phones,
    skype app was available on Nokia's Ovi store and Nokia wanted to bundle it pre-loaded on their symbian phone that they wanted to sell on Verizon.
    Verizon had not allowed Nokia to pre-load it or show any direct link to download skype. People had to search for the app in the store to download it.

    I have seen Nokia's Symbian and WP days and there are some valid arguments in that post. I may not agree with all, but doesn't mean they are wrong or invalid.

    The same issue was with Nokia maps since they are full offline. If you look at 1020 announcement, Elop made a joke about it indicating that AT&T was not
    happy with full offline maps.(Since they want you to use more data).

    Btw, Skype works on wi-fi too, not just data.


    My impressions, just touching on a few things...... First, as others have said, obviously a former Nokia employee with a grudge. Lost his job due to "Elop'pian" cuts, maybe? The biggest thing I see here is that anytime someone is so full of themselves ("I was the first", "I was most accurate"), I have a hard time giving any credibility to anything else they say, since they've obviously started out with lies.

    Here are some quotes that I really like </sarcasm>


    Really, I don't see Skype as a problem for carriers. I mean, aren't plans shifting to data plans? I mean I shifted plans from a family plan with unlimited data and 1400 minutes to a family plan with unlimited minutes and limited data. I know I'm not the only situation, but it seems to me that more and more, it's data they're selling, not talk. I mean, can you even talk on a phone anymore? Does Skype work without some sort of data connection? I'll have to do some testing to try that out.......

    He says a lot of things that sound like they could make sense, unless you know more than what he's saying. He's not telling you that it was AFTER MS bought Skype that Verizon came out and said they were going to push Windows Phone (and they have). He's leading you to believe that Windows Phone is bloated when in actuality it requires far less computing power than Android.

    He's just a sore ex-employee on a rant. Nothing to see here - move along.
    Dazzi likes this.
    09-04-2013 04:43 PM
  16. WPmunkey's Avatar
    He was not a Nokia employee that lost job after Elop came in.
    And there is a valid argument if not correct. He is right that Elop and MS have said that carriers were reluctant in adopting skype.
    That may also be the reason why Skype is still not integrated in WP. Also if you don't remember, when Nokia was selling Symbian phones,
    skype app was available on Nokia's Ovi store and Nokia wanted to bundle it pre-loaded on their symbian phone that they wanted to sell on Verizon.
    Verizon had not allowed Nokia to pre-load it or show any direct link to download skype. People had to search for the app in the store to download it.

    I have seen Nokia's Symbian and WP days and there are some valid arguments in that post. I may not agree with all, but doesn't mean they are wrong or invalid.

    The same issue was with Nokia maps since they are full offline. If you look at 1020 announcement, Elop made a joke about it indicating that AT&T was not
    happy with full offline maps.(Since they want you to use more data).

    Btw, Skype works on wi-fi too, not just data.
    So you are saying MS/Nokia will fail because the carriers want more money. I agree. Couple that with Googs and Apples giving pressure on the other end and it's an uphill battle. MS needs more leverage to use against the carriers. That means more sales. Rock - (MS) - Hard place.
    09-04-2013 05:18 PM
  17. spaulagain's Avatar
    So you are saying MS/Nokia will fail because the carriers want more money. I agree. Couple that with Googs and Apples giving pressure on the other end and it's an uphill battle. MS needs more leverage to use against the carriers. That means more sales. Rock - (MS) - Hard place.
    While true, I feel this is mostly a US issue. Around the world WP seems to be growing quite well and quickly. If WP gains a significant global market share (15%+) then US carriers will eventually be subject to that demand growing in the states as well. Microsoft is a powerhouse, they'll make it work even if the US carriers are kicking and screaming the whole way there.
    09-04-2013 05:37 PM
  18. JustToClarify's Avatar
    you all jump to ad hominem arguments, while it is true that he is full of grudge and he hates elop(for a reason, mind you) that doesn't automatically mean that he is wrong

    he was right about majority of things starting from day 1 when elop came into office...and especially from day when he announced a "brilliant" burning memo, which is probably the most idiotic move any CEO has ever done
    09-04-2013 06:22 PM
  19. ChMar's Avatar
    Google is potentially more dangerous to the carriers than MS. It's true that MS has Skype but google has google voice and around 70% smartphone market share with android. And android can run Skype too. So to say now that carriers have a grudge agains MS but will support an even more potential dangerous google is completely crazy. What about SIP dialers??? They work on all platforms? Where are more SIP dialers on the Android platform or on another 3rd running platform. BB had for years their BB data plan separate of the carrier control and still the carriers were pushing BB devices. What is more logical a conspiracy theory based on nothing between all carriers or a simple customer study case that shows more interest for buying iphone and android devices than windows phone devices? Because as a carrier it makes more sense to buy more iphone and Samsung devices at discount than blocking their money on a platform with less demand. Carriers in Russia renounced on the iphone because they had disagreements with apple and this blog post states that Skype and by conjecture MS is banned by carriers just because of a grudge :).

    Nokia has the largest wp presence because they offered the largest collection of phones to choose from and targeted all range of prices and hw features and also because they invested in marketing. Samsung comes second because they made made the popular S3 phone a wp 8 phone and because they made another handset in less than 1 year interval even if they did not invest in marketing for obvious reasons. HTC did a fire and forget strategy launching a high-end and low end devices and with no marketing support or any other device launched since the beginning. In the start Microsoft branded the 8x as the reference device for windows phone so it's not like they did not want to support all the manufacturers. The huawey made 2 devices but of course no one was paying attention to them in the press because well they are a Chinese company, they did not have the htc "feature device" in the begging, they are not the big name Samsung and they did not made enough effort in marketing campaigns as nokia.

    I don't see why MS will fail buy buying Nokia. I don't believe in a conspiracy of the carriers world wide because of Skype. Now MS makes devices so there is a certainty that windows phone will exist. And as professional developer pool you have a MS way of doing things that spans from servers and cloud to desktop and tablets and phone using mostly the same technologies (.NET, COM, XAML based stacks). Of all the tech companies they offer the biggest area of grow for third party OEMs or 3rd party software companies in all areas. Saying that an airline is going full windows ecosystem is nothing and we are talking only about a couple thousand devices is downgrading the importance of the enterprise potential of the platform.
    09-04-2013 06:24 PM
  20. OzRob's Avatar
    Citation or FUD?
    umm....look at the stickie poll on this forum. That's where the figure comes from.

    And my original post was simply pointing out the irony of someone using battery drain as an example of Android's failings when there's a poll running on this very forum on that very issue with WP8. I guess people don't own many black pots or kettles these days!
    09-04-2013 06:49 PM
  21. iamtim's Avatar
    umm....look at the stickie poll on this forum. That's where the figure comes from.
    Yeah, the one I linked up above. The one which still has less than 100 respondents.
    09-04-2013 07:06 PM
  22. MacDaMachine's Avatar
    If Microsoft can use its money stacks to actually produce tons of phones then we should be good.

    Just imagine if Nokia had enough money to have produce enough Lumia 920s to not have an exclusive deal with ATT. It could have been on ATT and Verizon without hold backs and exclusivity deal.
    09-04-2013 07:14 PM
  23. Lumia 8x's Avatar
    There are a lot of uncomfortable truths in that blog post that will be ignored here. Lets be honest, WP would already be dead if not for the Lumia series. WP enjoys little to no carrier support. The only region it has done relatively well is Europe, thanks to Nokia's carrier relations and customer reputation there. Now that Nokia is gone, WP is going to face more difficulty getting to consumers, not less. And it will make no difference even if the next Lumias are the best phones ever. I'm a huge Nokia Lumia fan, but it makes me sick what Elop and MS did to Nokia and its employees (there are going to be thousands of layoffs - and notice who will stay - sales (ie carrier relations) and manufacturing). You have to be willfully blind to think Elop didn't kill the N9 and release the burning platform memo by mistake because he's just that stupid. It was sabotage.
    Just wtf are you talking about? No one is getting fired. They are al transferring over the Microsoft
    09-04-2013 07:25 PM
  24. hary536's Avatar
    If Microsoft can use its money stacks to actually produce tons of phones then we should be good.

    Just imagine if Nokia had enough money to have produce enough Lumia 920s to not have an exclusive deal with ATT. It could have been on ATT and Verizon without hold backs and exclusivity deal.
    It was not about Nokia not having money. It was about demand. If they knew they would need X number of Lumias, they would have built that. They just couldn't afford to build in advance and then write-down millions like MS did for Surface RT. They were smarter than MS.
    09-04-2013 07:26 PM
  25. Jazmac's Avatar
    TL;DR. Just another windbag blogger pundit.

    I really have to question cereal killer's motivations in finding this article and posting it here. 3300 global posts? 13 posts here? A Droid in your profile? Not looking to spread FUD, now, are you?
    I do notice that somehow these tales of woe always find their way onto the forum almost always by those with less than 10 posts and almost always by someone who have recently become dishearten by Windows Phone.
    psudotechzealot and iamtim like this.
    09-04-2013 07:35 PM
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