09-10-2014 06:18 PM
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  1. DalekSnare's Avatar
    They rejected my hello world app (which I only submitted to activate my student developer account). But it didn't have as much functionality as this one.
    09-03-2014 03:33 PM
  2. Bee Mon's Avatar
    No excuse, you can definitely create a better Hello World using Microsoft's App Studio. Its' free.

    Windows App Studio - Microsoft

    Look at some of the beautiful and useful apps you can create using App Studio:

    Jamestown Revival | Windows Phone Apps+Games Store (United States)
    Integrative Mom | Windows Phone Apps+Games Store (United States)
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-03-2014 03:51 PM
  3. emperor_skull's Avatar
    Just make the in app purchases like that done on dark lands, where you can either pay through the normal MS way or through your carrier, is a all easier paying through your carrier here in my country
    09-03-2014 04:03 PM
  4. Bee Mon's Avatar
    Just make the in app purchases like that done on dark lands, where you can either pay through the normal MS way or through your carrier, is a all easier paying through your carrier here in my country
    We'll consider all cases. It's always good to provide multiple pay options in your game/app. You have a far better reach.
    09-03-2014 04:41 PM
  5. Phone Guy 4567's Avatar
    I am quite aware that it takes "a" (lol) hard work to develop apps and I have indeed put in "many" hard works coding (not apps, mainly network engineering).

    Regardless. Choosing the platform which has a pathetic 2.5% market share (and declining) whose most popular phone is the dirt-cheap 520 is not a good idea for any developer, especially those that are starting out. Even more foolish if you have a good product and all you need is to port it... you do have a quality app, you do have the skills needed to develop and maintain it. And now, due to some childish tantrum at Apple's terms (which are unlikely to affect you even), you choose WP. And why not Android? Because you 'hate' (it is your opinion and I respect your right to it, however you must also respect my right to call your opinion stupid and shortsighted.
    While I agree with you that not choosing Android because you hate Google is not a good business decision, the way you have chosen to describe WP shows you are just as biased against MS as the OP is biased against Google.
    James8561 likes this.
    09-03-2014 04:58 PM
  6. Ceejay1's Avatar
    To the Developers who posted here. I pray for your success, I saw honor in the way that you treat or look at the platforms and the firms. I will purchase most if not all of your quality product, and I'm excited to see your games!
    09-03-2014 05:13 PM
  7. Greywolf1967's Avatar
    Bee Mon

    Pay no mind to the Negative Nelly's around here!!!!!!

    A few points to take to heart......Yes WP is a small market share 2.5% - 3%...however it can be grown. This is not Palm, caught in the death throws and hanging on by it's nails to the edge of a grave. Add Universal App support, and that Market explodes to only the "Largest Market in the World" PC's.

    You will find Windows Phone users to be a loyal band of people.........Rudy could release a "Hello World 6" app and it would be downloaded hugely in a day or two. Just track his downloads for 6Snap and 6Tag. If you serve up something people like they will come!!!!!

    Let me finish by saying Thank you for having a vision to make our small Family more interesting !!!!!!!

    All the best in what you do !!!
    09-03-2014 05:55 PM
  8. crystal_planet's Avatar
    I think OP has completely misunderstood Apple's policies.
    I think "we have a lot of serious developers that do not want their quality apps to be surrounded by amateur hour." leaves little room for interpretation.
    Nerdy Woman and Laura Knotek like this.
    09-03-2014 07:04 PM
  9. Nerdy Woman's Avatar
    I think "we have a lot of serious developers that do not want their quality apps to be surrounded by amateur hour." leaves little room for interpretation.
    LOL. It is fairly clear that Apple doesn't want "amateurs" submitting apps. But there's no way you'll ever convince me that they have more than 1 million apps that are all developed by "serious developers."

    And as for small, niche markets... I read an article a couple of weeks ago about people who were contacting the dev begging to have an app removed from their purchase list (which might be seen by parents/partners/employers). The app's sole function was to use the haptic feature of the phone as a personal satisfaction device. A true entertainment category killer.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-03-2014 07:17 PM
  10. Nabkawe5's Avatar
    I would've thought you choose WP because its the most hack free OS out there, It took some guys 2 years to hack it ( they still couldn't create a way for other people to hack it) and the funny blow to the head to those guys was!!! A huge new update got introduced rendering their hacking obsolete, So unless someone goes into great length and converted his phone into a developers phone, he will not get to install an app out of the store, (which voids the warranty btw) it also means In App purchase models in WP are the best out there because Android users with root have access to ram, meaning many apps can be played with no actual profit, (since these apps are free to install and don't feature ads) and that's how I basically destroyed my friends love for Candy Crush
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-03-2014 07:23 PM
  11. anon(8985111)'s Avatar
    Thank you very much for sharing your story with us. Wish you all the best for the development and make sure to inform us how it goes.
    09-03-2014 08:09 PM
  12. Ashalinia's Avatar
    I understand that those terms are kind of... snarky, but isn't it a bad idea to pass up a potentially large user base over that?

    Don't get me wrong, I'm ecstatic that developers want to develop for WP first, but it doesn't seem like a fantastic business move.
    09-03-2014 08:47 PM
  13. Ryzzlle's Avatar
    I also think the Apple terms are a bit weird. The point they're trying to get across is something I agree with, I don't agree with the way they say it though.
    Anyways, best of luck to your team and the games you're making! After all, if the WP market has to be more appealing business wise, someone has to take the leap forward. Just a tip: When WPC posts about your games one of these days, be sure it has that little 512 MB support tag,some of us little budget phone users would love to play the games you make! :)
    09-03-2014 09:20 PM
  14. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    Some of these people in this thread are ignorant and ridiculous.

    I look forward to seeing your products. Definitely have a buyer in me :)
    snowmutt and Laura Knotek like this.
    09-03-2014 11:05 PM
  15. EMINENT 1's Avatar
    I will gladly pay for your app. Thank you for supporting the platform!
    snowmutt likes this.
    09-04-2014 12:12 AM
  16. Bee Mon's Avatar
    I understand that those terms are kind of... snarky, but isn't it a bad idea to pass up a potentially large user base over that?

    Don't get me wrong, I'm ecstatic that developers want to develop for WP first, but it doesn't seem like a fantastic business move.
    Even entering the mobile app market is already not a very good business move nor making an agreement where details are vague and lopsided. Regardless of the size of any market, there's no guarantee of success and there is always an element of luck involved. For every success in an app store, there are hundreds of others that will not make it. We wouldn't have even tried to come back if we didn't have something to fall back on in case things don't work out. We are doing this because game development has always been our passion, something that we want to return back to, not because each of us wants to buy a Ferrari.
    Skamath likes this.
    09-04-2014 01:14 AM
  17. Bee Mon's Avatar
    I would've thought you choose WP because its the most hack free OS out there, It took some guys 2 years to hack it ( they still couldn't create a way for other people to hack it) and the funny blow to the head to those guys was!!! A huge new update got introduced rendering their hacking obsolete, So unless someone goes into great length and converted his phone into a developers phone, he will not get to install an app out of the store, (which voids the warranty btw) it also means In App purchase models in WP are the best out there because Android users with root have access to ram, meaning many apps can be played with no actual profit, (since these apps are free to install and don't feature ads) and that's how I basically destroyed my friends love for Candy Crush
    Since Android was not under consideration at that moment, we didn't need to care about the hacking and piracy. If we did chose to go Android, definitely we would have to rethink the payment model for the game and what additional methods that we can use to mitigate loses through piracy and hacking. If we couldn't find a suitable solution based on the structure of our game, that could be also a major reason why we would choose iOS or WP over Android. Hate is a strong word to use and I admit we may not have coined our initial statement correctly. It would be fairer to say we dislike developing for Android for many reasons (including the prevalent amount of piracy) and we hate the arrogant practices of Google.

    Another thing is that we made the decision to go iOS way back before WP 8.1 at a time where we were unsure exactly where Microsoft was heading. If WP8.1 (including the latest update) and Universal apps were introduced at a much earlier time, we would have been more confidence on WP.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-04-2014 01:45 AM
  18. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Thanks for choosing to develop for Windows Phone.

    I'll definitely check out your games.
    09-04-2014 01:56 AM
  19. James8561's Avatar
    can't wait to see what you will make! i'll definitely buy it if it serves my needs or entertain me well
    09-04-2014 02:23 AM
  20. Bee Mon's Avatar
    Thanks for all the positive support! We are so humbled. We could not have imagined this when we decided to create this thread. After the amount of abuse that have been going around the Internet for the past week, it feels so good to be in the company of such a positive and civil community!
    09-04-2014 02:33 AM
  21. Skamath's Avatar
    Between all the Yays and the Nays Bee Mon has a point and so has Snowmutt :)
    unimportant as it may be there is not much of a difference between a tester and developer, while the developer can walk into Bee Mon's party with his polished knob of an app doesnt necessarily mean that the tester doesnt have the ability to create quality app. The only difference between the two I would say is the tester tests and then turns into a publisher (caterpillar to butterfly theory)

    Now some like the butterfly some like caterpillar but who is Apple to say that the caterpillar should not bore a hole through it. For all you know there are butterfly admirers that appreciate the effort the caterpillar put in, to turn into a butterfly that it turned into. In short the butterfly lovers dont mind the caterpillars. Let the people decide if the app is good or not. It is called a rate and review/ feedback system.
    Laura Knotek and Nerdy Woman like this.
    09-04-2014 02:39 AM
  22. Phone Guy 4567's Avatar
    IMO there is nothing wrong with Apple deciding what to allow or not allow in their store. The only negative is the second part the OP highlighted, because it sounds like a threat, but what they're saying is common sense. If you have an appeal don't publicly bad mouth us because it won't help your appeal, which is good advice for any type of appeal with anyone.

    IMO the OP decision to develop for WP sounds like a plan B, hardly a ringing endorsement of WP. If development has already started with iOS why throw away all that work instead of just submitting it to Apple once it's finished and see what happens? My guess is the OP knows the app is not polished and would most likely be rejected. If I was truly cynical I might even think the WP app will be used as a beta test and things learned applied to a future iOS & Android versions, not really because of a stand against Google or Apple polices.
    09-04-2014 09:58 PM
  23. Nerdy Woman's Avatar
    IMO there is nothing wrong with Apple deciding what to allow or not allow in their store. The only negative is the second part the OP highlighted, because it sounds like a threat, but what they're saying is common sense. If you have an appeal don't publicly bad mouth us because it won't help your appeal, which is good advice for any type of appeal with anyone.

    IMO the OP decision to develop for WP sounds like a plan B, hardly a ringing endorsement of WP. If development has already started with iOS why throw away all that work instead of just submitting it to Apple once it's finished and see what happens? My guess is the OP knows the app is not polished and would most likely be rejected. If I was truly cynical I might even think the WP app will be used as a beta test and things learned applied to a future iOS & Android versions, not really because of a stand against Google or Apple polices.
    It doesn't sound like you read any of Bee Mon's post beyond the inserted Apple agreement. Their team was about to invest in Apple equipment when this revised agreement was published. No work using Apple's required Objective-C language has been done. They have experience developing for the now defunct WebOS and got good reviews.

    Next time you want to criticize, you might take the time to read the OP. I don't think they intend to use WP as a test platform. Rather, I suspect they see Apple's attitude as one that does not bode well for any future association. Perhaps experience is a good thing to have.
    Laura Knotek, Cortimi and Skamath like this.
    09-04-2014 11:44 PM
  24. Bee Mon's Avatar
    IMO there is nothing wrong with Apple deciding what to allow or not allow in their store. The only negative is the second part the OP highlighted, because it sounds like a threat, but what they're saying is common sense. If you have an appeal don't publicly bad mouth us because it won't help your appeal, which is good advice for any type of appeal with anyone.

    IMO the OP decision to develop for WP sounds like a plan B, hardly a ringing endorsement of WP. If development has already started with iOS why throw away all that work instead of just submitting it to Apple once it's finished and see what happens? My guess is the OP knows the app is not polished and would most likely be rejected. If I was truly cynical I might even think the WP app will be used as a beta test and things learned applied to a future iOS & Android versions, not really because of a stand against Google or Apple polices.
    You are free to have whatever your opinions you want but we only care to address opinions that are based on facts not presumptions. However I would like to point out the fallacy of some of those opinions in case some other readers (which in my opinion includes you) did not read my entire post and replies but simply skim through them to cherry-pick a few points for your arguments.

    First of all, Windows Phone was never a Plan B, it was part of the master plan. Plan B is when one plan fails, you need a backup. We clearly indicated that we would support both platforms which is one of the reasons behind choosing C# through Xamarin, so that it will be easier and faster to port over to Windows Phone. iOS was just chosen to be the initial platform. While we like C#, the new Swift language is pretty neat, so why fore would we consider paying a not-too-cheap Xamarin license if we had no intention to support WP in the first place.

    Secondly, we did not attempt to paint a pretty picture of WP with our post to get favors. In fact, on the contrary, we actually described a very bleak picture of WP at the beginning of the year in our post when we made our initial decision. When we decided to create the thread in the first place, we were ready to get a huge backlash from WP owners angry that we would choose to go iOS first and not the platform that we actually love.

    Thirdly, if you have actually read our post carefully, you can see clearly that we have not started substantial coding yet. What resources that we have implemented so far (graphics, music, animations) can be applied to any platform so we don't lose anything by switching. Also even if we had done some code, since we have chosen C#, it's not a big issue to switch. Now if we had already make a big "monetary" investment on one platform, then definitely we would have to still bulldoze through it to recover our investment before leaving it. And if you had also read through a lot of our replies, we have indicated a few times that if Apple was to revert or to specifically clarify exact requirements, we would reconsider our stand. Againt prove that we weren't painting a pretty picture of the WP situation.

    Finally, even though as the developer of a software that got a 8/10 review from a major site and could have gotten more except that we only supported English, we are not insulted by your assumption that we were afraid of being rejected because we knew our game/apps were not of "quality". However IMHO, you just insulted your own community by suggesting that WP users would accept crappy software rejected by Apple. Whether our software is of good quality can only be easily ascertained at the time of release. We cannot address it now but we emplore you so stay around and do not delete your comment. At the time that we offical release our software, I would like to come back to revisit your comment so that we can work together to compare our software with what is available on the Apple AppStore and I would appreciate your evaluation at the time.

    We hope in the future if you have any opinions on any of our posts, that you first read our posts and replies entirely. You are free not to but the time that we have to take to address your straw man opinions could have been better spent on designing and making "quality" games/apps for your platform.
    09-05-2014 12:07 AM
  25. berty6294's Avatar
    Interesting read. Won't buy your app though. I hate IAP and I think your app won't be that great to be honest. If it won't make it in the app store why should we windows phone users be excited about it?
    I for one am excited because of the overwhelming passion this developer has. As far as how good the game will be? Time will tell, but such a passionate dev definitely deserves at least a chance to prove to us he is good at what he loves!
    TechFreak1 likes this.
    09-05-2014 12:16 AM
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