928 Amber - FM Radio missing?

[MikeLip]

Ive just updated my Lumia 920. I thought the radio wasnt there thats how came across this post searching for answers.
So I looked even further on my apps in my Lumia and found out that the Radio App is inside the MUSIC + VIDEO app. Look it up there. For sure its in there.

No. it's not. And it won't be.

 

[RW5207]

So here's what I've found about the 820/920 on:

Introduction to Bluetooth support on Windows Phone 8 - Nokia Developer Wiki

Did they rip the WCN3660 chipset out of the 928? Seems odd.

WP8 and Bluetooth 4.0
Currently Windows Phone 8 supports Bluetooth 3.1 and includes compatibility with following profiles:

Advanced Audio Distribution Profile (A2DP 1.2)
Audio/Video Remote Control Profile (AVRCP 1.4
Hands Free Profile (HFP 1.5)
Phone Book Access Profile (PBAP 1.1)
Object Push Profile (OPP 1.1)
Out of Band (OOB) and Near Field Communications (NFC)

But the good news for the developers is that both the Lumia 820 and 920 will support Bluetooth 4.0 as per Bluetooth.org. Bluetooth WCN3660 chipset exists in Lumia 820 and 920 which not only has Bluetooth 4 capabilities but also has an FM transceiver, so it?s just the matter of time that WP8 will get a stack update. And due to its real world need and demand Microsoft will certainly put the required update soon.

Also, Nokia Lumia 928 shows that the bluetooth chipset is in the WCN3660.

Bluetooth Features BT Core Version 3.0 EDR
BT Chip WCN3660, Qualcomm
BT Profiles Supported

So, who's lying?

 

[DavidinCT]

So here's what I've found about the 820/920 on:

Introduction to Bluetooth support on Windows Phone 8 - Nokia Developer Wiki

Did they rip the WCN3660 chipset out of the 928? Seems odd.

WP8 and Bluetooth 4.0
Currently Windows Phone 8 supports Bluetooth 3.1 and includes compatibility with following profiles:

Advanced Audio Distribution Profile (A2DP 1.2)
Audio/Video Remote Control Profile (AVRCP 1.4
Hands Free Profile (HFP 1.5)
Phone Book Access Profile (PBAP 1.1)
Object Push Profile (OPP 1.1)
Out of Band (OOB) and Near Field Communications (NFC)

But the good news for the developers is that both the Lumia 820 and 920 will support Bluetooth 4.0 as per Bluetooth.org. Bluetooth WCN3660 chipset exists in Lumia 820 and 920 which not only has Bluetooth 4 capabilities but also has an FM transceiver, so it’s just the matter of time that WP8 will get a stack update. And due to its real world need and demand Microsoft will certainly put the required update soon.

Also, Nokia Lumia 928 shows that the bluetooth chipset is in the WCN3660.

Bluetooth Features BT Core Version 3.0 EDR
BT Chip WCN3660, Qualcomm
BT Profiles Supported

So, who's lying?

Who's lying is the big question here... People are saying it does not have a cable to enable the attenna but, I believe that is BS (this was said by a high poster, NOT an employee on a Nokia site). Yep, the phone has the chipset, as I have understood, the FM should work fine if enabled just by enabling the other features on the chip but, what do I know ?

Anyway about it, someone is lying to us, It's Verizon or Nokia... Someone is and for the price we pay for these devices, I really expect an HONEST answer, not just more excuses.

 

[ddartman7]

Who's lying is the big question here... Anyway about it, someone is lying to us, It's Verizon or Nokia... I really expect an HONEST answer, not just more excuses.

Well I think one has to consider the possibility that neither Nokia or Verizon are lying. Nokia has simply said the phone does not have the hardware to support FM. A connector from chip to headphone IS hardware. That being the case, it might be splitting hairs but the reality is no one is "lying" if in fact that one critical part was not included in the phone's hardware.

What is the bigger question for me is, who was the Einstein that made that design call. Was it a request of the carrier or was it Nokia taking a shortcut? In any event, NO FM RADIO for us 928 owners now or ever. I absolutely agree that an honest answer rather than this nuanced BS they keep peddling would be preferred but I'm not holding my breath... their focus is already on what device follows next.

 

[mrZoSo]

Just some info I found:

Qualcomm? WCN3660 Wi-Fi/Bluetooth?/FM Solution Highlights

WCN3660 integrates three wireless technologies into a single device optimized for the throughput, size, and energy efficiency needs of mobile and embedded devices.

• Dual-band 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz wireless local area network (WLAN) compliant with the IEEE 802.11a/b/g/n specification
• Bluetooth compliant with the BT specification version 4.0 (BR/EDR+BLE)
• Worldwide FM radio, with Rx and Tx modes supporting the Radio Data System (RDS) for Europe and the Radio Broadcast Data System (RBDS) for the USA
  

Source: Qualcomm Atheros :: Mobile :: WLAN :: WCN3660

 

[DavidinCT]

Well I think one has to consider the possibility that neither Nokia or Verizon are lying. Nokia has simply said the phone does not have the hardware to support FM. A connector from chip to headphone IS hardware. That being the case, it might be splitting hairs but the reality is no one is "lying" if in fact that one critical part was not included in the phone's hardware.

I honestly think they are only saying that because verizon said not to enable the feature. AKA a excuse

Remember Nokia talks to Verizon before making/designing a phone, I'm sure it went down something like this...

Nokia: What type of phone do you want ?
Verizon: a phone a like the 920
Nokia: What type of features do you want on it we can offer this list of features <list of features that the 920 offers or upgrades from it>
Verizon round table: If we enable the FM radio, we will have to add headphones to the box at a extra cost and posable extra support call costs
Verizon to Nokia: Disable the FM radio and make it sound like the hardware is not there to do it
Nokia: Ok...

I think the Lack of hardware is just an excuse, the hardware is there in the phone and a missing cable ? Really ? If this phone was to be a upgrade from the 920, Why is this so called cable not even there ?

 

[spyderzWPC]

This is the reason I left Verizon, I dealt with this same issue once they released wp7.5
Verizon said they the htc did have the hardware for wifi tethering
called htc, they said ms told them not to put it there

Verizon said they couldn't turn on visual voicemail because of htc
htc said visual voicemail is supported on wp7.5, Verizon needs to write the app....

on att now was happy with my 900 now I am happy with my 920

 

[ddartman7]

I honestly think they are only saying that because verizon said not to enable the feature. AKA a excuse

Remember Nokia talks to Verizon before making/designing a phone, I'm sure it went down something like this...

Nokia: What type of phone do you want ?
Verizon: a phone a like the 920
Nokia: What type of features do you want on it we can offer this list of features <list of features that the 920 offers or upgrades from it>
Verizon round table: If we enable the FM radio, we will have to add headphones to the box at a extra cost and posable extra support call costs
Verizon to Nokia: Disable the FM radio and make it sound like the hardware is not there to do it
Nokia: Ok...

I think the Lack of hardware is just an excuse, the hardware is there in the phone and a missing cable ? Really ? If this phone was to be a upgrade from the 920, Why is this so called cable not even there ?

Well I am as disappointed as anyone about this but I gotta say that what you suggest makes for great conspiracy theory but it just doesn't add up. Consider that with the 822 there were no headphones in the box either, but it has FM Radio. As for extra support call costs... really? Again if that were the case, then you wouldn't see FM on any phone from VZW. Is it possible that VZW requested that Nokia NOT include the hardware connection for FM? Well certainly that is possible though unlikely. Let's face it, we're never going to get a straight answer but I personally lean toward Nokia being the culprit here, and frankly someone should be fired for making such a stupid design decision.

 

[hopmedic]

I could be wrong, but to me the headphone argument just doesn't make sense. The 822 didn't come with headphones and it has FM radio now. And it makes even less sense given that the feature didn't work at launch, so they wouldn't (or shouldn't, if they did) have advertised it. Then on top of that, even if they did advertise it, and it was functional at launch, all you have to do is put a good ole disclaimer on the box.

* In order to use the FM receiver, additional wired headphones are required, as the FM radio uses the headphone cable as an antenna.

In tiny print, of course.

 

[Trevor Halsey]

Well, I found the disassembly pictures via the FCC. Everything looks in place.....afaik......
FCC Listings for QMNRM-860
Internal Photos

 

[pechio]

Well, I found the disassembly pictures via the FCC. Everything looks in place.....afaik......
FCC Listings for QMNRM-860
Internal Photos

Thank you for your excellent work. Could you be able to find the internal pictures of a 920? We could compare them & look for the "wire".

 

[mrZoSo]

Well, I found the disassembly pictures via the FCC. Everything looks in place.....afaik......
FCC Listings for QMNRM-860
Internal Photos

When trying to view the Internal Images I'm getting this:
You are not authorized to access this page.

 

[ddartman7]

Thank you for your excellent work. Could you be able to find the internal pictures of a 920? We could compare them & look for the "wire".&#55357;&#56841;

What is really needed is a schematic diagram of each. Good luck.

 

[mrZoSo]

Found this, but a subscription is needed to DL it.
Schematic Service-manual nokia 9 series 928 RM-860

Here's the 920 schematic:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6UmTPQYTUNQUW5MYl8xMk5zU0U/edit?usp=sharing

 

[PPCFreak]

When trying to view the Internal Images I'm getting this:
You are not authorized to access this page.

you have to click the first link and then the Int link on that page and it works. Thanks for the great find.

 

[mrZoSo]

Yeah, I finally got to it. Site just doesn't let you direct link. I'm going to do some more hunting later for the 928 schematics

 

[DavidinCT]

What is really needed is a schematic diagram of each. Good luck.

Exactly what I was going to say. If it was a "wire" as they say, it would be printout on the board from the chip to the headset. I guess if you could get a detaled image from both chips (on the 920 and 928) and make sure all connections are being used (mirrored connections), it would confirm that the hardware is there. Unless you can see both sides of the motherboard where the chip is, that would be impossable to see tho..

 

[mrZoSo]

Well I hunted and pecked for the 928 schematics, and the site I linked to earlier seems to be the only one to have it at this point.
And as far as just using pictures, it would be rather hard to compare as the two devices layout out are not the same internally. Even so, they would have to be very close-up/detailed to follow traces, if all the traces are even visible. Schematics would be the fool proof way to go.

 

[falconrap]

Having just looked at the teardown video, the "wiring" consists of traces from the chip, through the PCB, to the spring contacts that appear to be surface mounted, which then make contact with the head jack module. Since all they needed was to wire the traces from the headphone lines to the correct pins on the chip...I stand by my assertion in the other thread that it would be trivial and of no production cost to include the FM. If it doesn't have it, then that is shear stupidity on the design team...or a direct command was put out to not wire it up in the layout.

My gut says Verizon told Nokia not to enable this, for whatever stupid reason. That's my gut, so it's speculation and could be false, but I highly doubt they would leave this out on accident.

 

[mrZoSo]

Hmm, just found this little tid-bit that comes with the Verizon package for the 928.

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\FMRadio\OEM]
"NotPresent"=dword:00000001

It'll be nice to see what happens when we can edit the registry and change the DWORD.