A strategic blunder by Microsoft

[N_LaRUE]

I agree that the analogy breaks down. The truck/car analogy is physical hardware, and an OS is virtual. But even if it is software, there will still be components of the desktop version present in the mobile version of the OS, even if they are not used. Or, if they're not there, then is it really the same OS? It would be more like two OS's running the same apps (which themselves are different depending on the OS version).

And yes, I agree it can be done. But can, or will, it be done well? There may be too many compromises to make it viable.

There is very little difference in architecture between a PC and a mobile device They're more alike than not. Where as if you look at a truck and car, they are similar in many ways but different in where it counts. It's not really the same difference between a PC and a mobile device.

The main difference is overall power but again, that's not a huge problem. The biggest determent of a smartphone is the battery and heat constraints. This is why powerful processors are difficult at small form factors.

In this case it really is about making the 'app' work with the different devices. The scaling factor and how that happens. I'm assuming the OS handles this so long as you follow rules and maybe there might be some customisation with it as well.

The only main fall would be games but that's understandable as PC games are quite extreme and even laptops have difficulty there.

 

[tgp]

Now your just getting philosophical XD Windows already shares a single core. Is it really many different OSes right now? What about when it shares cshell as well, and the only difference is the middle layers?

You're correct, W10M and Windows 10 are already the same OS!

Either way, I don't think it matters if they're the same OS or not. What we're more than likely going to have for the foreseeable future is Windows on desktop, and iOS and Android on mobile. That's obviously what Microsoft envisions, and it's what more than 99% of users envision.

Q: Will this change in the future?
A: Probably.

Q: When?
A: Who knows?

Q: What will be different?
A: Who knows?

 

[Drael646464]

You're correct, W10M and Windows 10 are already the same OS!

Either way, I don't think it matters if they're the same OS or not. What we're more than likely going to have for the foreseeable future is Windows on desktop, and iOS and Android on mobile. That's obviously what Microsoft envisions, and it's what more than 99% of users envision.

Q: Will this change in the future?
A: Probably.

Q: When?
A: Who knows?

Q: What will be different?
A: Who knows?

Foreseeable future is a curious commonplace phrase. Not splitting hairs, just one of my random tangents.

 

[N_LaRUE]

You're correct, W10M and Windows 10 are already the same OS!

Either way, I don't think it matters if they're the same OS or not. What we're more than likely going to have for the foreseeable future is Windows on desktop, and iOS and Android on mobile. That's obviously what Microsoft envisions, and it's what more than 99% of users envision.

Q: Will this change in the future?
A: Probably.

Q: When?
A: Who knows?

Q: What will be different?
A: Who knows?

Personally I don't see smartphones going away any time soon. They may get more advanced and may have additional hardware but I don't think they're going anywhere.

There's always a call for the 'next big thing'. The next advancement. The new idea. The great cosmic shift. It will happen when it happens but there is always a 'dull' area for some time before it does. A breather if you will. It happened with PC and now it's happening with mobile.

I don't quite understand the call for killing of the smartphone to be honest. It's the most personal computing device we ever had and for some reason some people want it gone. I don't quite get this to be honest. The smartphone in it's current form is only 10 years old. Yes there were smartphones prior to that by Nokia but on the whole touchscreen phones are only 10 years old.

A PC has been around for more than 40 years. It may have got smaller, faster, better but at the end of the day, it hasn't changed all that much.

 

[tgp]

Foreseeable future is a curious commonplace phrase. Not splitting hairs, just one of my random tangents.

Definition - foreseeable future

What we're more than likely going to have for the foreseeable future is Windows on desktop, and iOS and Android on mobile.

Edit: What we're more than likely going to have for a long time is Windows on desktop, and iOS and Android on mobile.

There is very little difference in architecture between a PC and a mobile device They're more alike than not. Where as if you look at a truck and car, they are similar in many ways but different in where it counts. It's not really the same difference between a PC and a mobile device.

The main difference is overall power but again, that's not a huge problem. The biggest determent of a smartphone is the battery and heat constraints. This is why powerful processors are difficult at small form factors.

Don't get me wrong; I agree with your points. I agree that a single OS is possible. I just don't see it being quite so streamlined as we imagine. And as with the truck/car analogy, there certainly are hardware differences to consider between desktop and mobile, as you pointed out here.

 

[Drael646464]

The only main fall would be games but that's understandable as PC games are quite extreme and even laptops have difficulty there.

They could probably scale games. There are algorythmns for scaling poly counts down lower. Design systems to drop effects and post-processing, throw in some different UI input methods. But that would require there was money in it. Maybe if people could keep playing their desktop game, at the bus stop, it might make it economically workwhile-ish - but a lot of people would need to do it. ATM gamers just either play casual, or buy top end, but it could merge somehow maybe?

 

[Drael646464]

Definition - foreseeable future



Edit: What we're more than likely going to have for a long time is Windows on desktop, and iOS and Android on mobile.

Really? Whats a long time then? Are we talking ten years? twenty? fifty?

 

[N_LaRUE]

And as with the truck/car analogy, there certainly are hardware differences to consider between desktop and mobile, as you pointed out here.

I'm curious what these hardware differences are?

Basics -

PC - CPU, RAM, ROM, Storage, Input peripherals, Output peripherals

Mobile - CPU, RAM, ROM, Storage, Input peripherals, Output peripherals

The overall architecture within runs the same internally.

So I'm curious about the differences.

 

[tgp]

Really? Whats a long time then? Are we talking ten years? twenty? fifty?

I have no idea. Ever since WP's inception, we've been thinking "next year", "next update", "next version". In other words, "just around the corner". In reality, it's been more like the bear that went over the mountain to see what he could see.

I'm curious what these hardware differences are?

Basics -

PC - CPU, RAM, ROM, Storage, Input peripherals, Output peripherals

Mobile - CPU, RAM, ROM, Storage, Input peripherals, Output peripherals

The overall architecture within runs the same internally.

So I'm curious about the differences.

I wasn't talking so much about the hardware component differences as I was about battery and heat dissipation, as you mentioned here:

The biggest determent of a smartphone is the battery and heat constraints. This is why powerful processors are difficult at small form factors.

Personally I don't see smartphones going away any time soon. They may get more advanced and may have additional hardware but I don't think they're going anywhere.

There's always a call for the 'next big thing'. The next advancement. The new idea. The great cosmic shift. It will happen when it happens but there is always a 'dull' area for some time before it does. A breather if you will. It happened with PC and now it's happening with mobile.

I don't quite understand the call for killing of the smartphone to be honest. It's the most personal computing device we ever had and for some reason some people want it gone. I don't quite get this to be honest. The smartphone in it's current form is only 10 years old. Yes there were smartphones prior to that by Nokia but on the whole touchscreen phones are only 10 years old.

A PC has been around for more than 40 years. It may have got smaller, faster, better but at the end of the day, it hasn't changed all that much.

I agree 100% here. I mentioned in another post a few days ago that logistics dictate why our tools retain certain form factors. Vehicles today are the same basic form as animal-drawn wagons from thousands of years ago; a rectangular-shaped apparatus with four wheels, one at each corner, with seats inside.

 

[N_LaRUE]

I wasn't talking so much about the hardware component differences as I was about battery and heat dissipation, as you mentioned

Oh ok. I thought you were referring to some hardware restraint I didn't see. In reality it's not much different than a laptop when you think about it.

I agree 100% here. I mentioned in another post a few days ago that logistics dictate why our tools retain certain form factors. Vehicles today are the same basic form as animal-drawn wagons from thousands of years ago; a rectangular-shaped apparatus with four wheels, one at each corner, with seats inside.

It is rather amusing that people think once something become boring and everyday we must change it. You can use many analogies where this idea is false. TVs, movie theatres, theatres, cars, trucks, PCs, knifes, sinks, taps, showers, doors, windows... the list goes on.

Sure they get 'better' but overall, in functionality they don't change.

 

[Drael646464]

I have no idea. Ever since WP's inception, we've been thinking "next year", "next update", "next version". In other words, "just around the corner". In reality, it's been more like the bear that went over the mountain to see what he could see.



I wasn't talking so much about the hardware component differences as I was about battery and heat dissipation, as you mentioned here:





I agree 100% here. I mentioned in another post a few days ago that logistics dictate why our tools retain certain form factors. Vehicles today are the same basic form as animal-drawn wagons from thousands of years ago; a rectangular-shaped apparatus with four wheels, one at each corner, with seats inside.

Well isn't that life. A bear who climbed the mountain to see what he could see.

Now there is a reality that isn't going anywhere.

 

[Drael646464]

Oh ok. I thought you were referring to some hardware restraint I didn't see. In reality it's not much different than a laptop when you think about it.



It is rather amusing that people think once something become boring and everyday we must change it. You can use many analogies where this idea is false. TVs, movie theatres, theatres, cars, trucks, PCs, knifes, sinks, taps, showers, doors, windows... the list goes on.

Sure they get 'better' but overall, in functionality they don't change.

My tech drawing teacher talked about how the clay pot became the tea pot. I guess a tablet is just, well like a piece of paper. Maybe one day we'll have virtual pieces of paper, or electronic bits of paper. Or cars that levitate, and self-drive, but still have four seats.

 

[jlzimmerman]

Microsoft did not shutter mobile.

They stopped marketing WP, their Lead goes on sabbatical, the CEO never liked mobile and was always mum on the subject, they provided better offerings to other OS's with more enthusiasm than their own, they stopped mentioning mobile at conventions like //build and MWC, never grew the critical partnerships (telecom providers) for their third-party hardware allies, super late on updates, on and on and on. They pretty much did shutter mobile, just slowly.

I agree that MS should have never gotten into the hardware business, but they didn't need to to have a successful product OS/Ecosystem, just passion and commitment. They had plenty of thirsty hardware partners. And to think MS had 30% mobile share in 2007.

 

[fatclue_98]

They stopped marketing WP, their Lead goes on sabbatical, the CEO never liked mobile and was always mum on the subject, they provided better offerings to other OS's with more enthusiasm than their own, they stopped mentioning mobile at conventions like //build and MWC, never grew the critical partnerships (telecom providers) for their third-party hardware allies, super late on updates, on and on and on. They pretty much did shutter mobile, just slowly.

I agree that MS should have never gotten into the hardware business, but they didn't need to to have a successful product OS/Ecosystem, just passion and commitment. They had plenty of thirsty hardware partners. And to think MS had 30% mobile share in 2007.

None of what you mentioned addresses the fact that MS is delivering update after update and producing new Insider builds. Nadella can go golfing with Trump everyday or vacationing in France for all I care but it doesn't change what's happening.

 

[Drael646464]

They stopped marketing WP, their Lead goes on sabbatical, the CEO never liked mobile and was always mum on the subject, they provided better offerings to other OS's with more enthusiasm than their own, they stopped mentioning mobile at conventions like //build and MWC, never grew the critical partnerships (telecom providers) for their third-party hardware allies, super late on updates, on and on and on. They pretty much did shutter mobile, just slowly.

I agree that MS should have never gotten into the hardware business, but they didn't need to to have a successful product OS/Ecosystem, just passion and commitment. They had plenty of thirsty hardware partners. And to think MS had 30% mobile share in 2007.

win10m was mentioned at build. It was mentioned when the demo'd files on demand on a 950. I don't think win10m ever had 30 percent marketshare.

 

[fatclue_98]

win10m was mentioned at build. It was mentioned when the demo'd files on demand on a 950. I don't think win10m ever had 30 percent marketshare.

I think he's referring to WinMo (CE-based) in which he's close to the truth. I had seen somewhere else many years ago where WinMo had closer to 40% share worldwide. The 30% figure might have been US share. As with Windows Phone, Europe adopted Microsoft's mobile platform much better than 'Murica.

 

[CraigCole]

None of what you mentioned addresses the fact that MS is delivering update after update and producing new Insider builds. Nadella can go golfing with Trump everyday or vacationing in France for all I care but it doesn't change what's happening.

Yes, Microsoft is delivering updates, but in my opinion they're just spinning their tires. Sure, W10M is galaxies ahead of the horrifying state it was released a year and a half ago (or whenever it was made public), but my 950 is still an unmitigated piece of crap, constantly missing notifications and dropping WiFi connectivity; glance screen is broken, Bluetooth music playback is at best sketchy, the photos app loves to crash. I could go on but I don't feel like making myself more depressed. :crying:

I don't think win10m ever had 30 percent marketshare.

I think he might have been referring to the original Windows Mobile. :smile:

 

[fatclue_98]

Yes, Microsoft is delivering updates, but in my opinion they're just spinning their tires. Sure, W10M is galaxies ahead of the horrifying state it was released a year and a half ago (or whenever it was made public), but my 950 is still an unmitigated piece of crap, constantly missing notifications and dropping WiFi connectivity; glance screen is broken, Bluetooth music playback is at best sketchy, the photos app loves to crash. I could go on but I don't feel like making myself more depressed. :crying:



I think he might have been referring to the original Windows Mobile.

Did you ever stop to think you have a bad handset? I have none of those issues you mentioned and never have. The only problems I've ever had are the phantom touches on a 1520 and the SD eject issue on an Idol 4S. I had a Bluetooth problem with my Caddy 's radio but it was relegated to that car only. Never had any problems with my other cars.

So far my x3 is totally glitch free.

 

[Drael646464]

I think he's referring to WinMo (CE-based) in which he's close to the truth. I had seen somewhere else many years ago where WinMo had closer to 40% share worldwide. The 30% figure might have been US share. As with Windows Phone, Europe adopted Microsoft's mobile platform much better than 'Murica.

Ah, well that's a bit like saying blackberry ruled the smartphone world. the iPhone destroyed all of that.

 

[fatclue_98]

Ah, well that's a bit like saying blackberry ruled the smartphone world. the iPhone destroyed all of that.

Well, they did. The mid-aughts were BlackBerry and Palm's heyday like it is with Apple and Samsung today.