Current devices WILL NOT get Apollo.

[mparker]

If it doesn't get released because a carrier decides to hold it back for some strange reason his assumption is still incorrect. Tango is not "targeting only new devices in emerging markets"

You're making a category error here. Thurrott was talking about Microsoft's intentions with respect to Tango. I don't see why Microsoft can't add a few features to their OS while still targeting it primarily at new devices in new and emerging markets. But that's just Microsoft's intentions. AT&T and Nokia or Samsung or HTC may well have other intentions towards it - such as using it as a sop to the owners of their current devices a few months before Apollo rolls out and the world passes them bye.

-EDIT- ATT has committed to a post 8107 update already...

But to which devices? All of their devices? Even if they say all devices what does "all" mean? All the ones they've ever sold, or all the ones they're selling now? Or only the ones they're selling at the time of the Tango rollout - which may mean only the 900 and Titan S get it?

 

[canesfan625]

You're making a category error here. Thurrott was talking about Microsoft's intentions with respect to Tango. I don't see why Microsoft can't add a few features to their OS while still targeting it primarily at new devices in new and emerging markets. But that's just Microsoft's intentions. AT&T and Nokia or Samsung or HTC may well have other intentions towards it - such as using it as a sop to the owners of their current devices a few months before Apollo rolls out and the world passes them bye.



But to which devices? All of their devices? Even if they say all devices what does "all" mean? All the ones they've ever sold, or all the ones they're selling now? Or only the ones they're selling at the time of the Tango rollout - which may mean only the 900 and Titan S get it?

He is saying that's why we wont get it. He is saying that devices will not get tango because it targets emerging markets. I'm not sure how else to word it. Its a refresh that brings support to low end devices as well as some nice new features to everything else. It seems to just be somewhat the opposite of Apollo.

-Edit- Tango is an update to Mango. Hard to do that if its only targeting emerging markets. Microsoft said they are pushing it to all devices unless for some reason a carrier blocks it.

All devices. There was some outlash over them not releasing 8107. Their response was that a better update is coming.

 

[mparker]

He is saying that's why we wont get it. He is saying that devices will not get tango because it targets emerging markets.

Sure. It's the next version of WP7, which targets emerging markets, includes bugfixes that were developed post-mango, etc. Because emerging markets are its primary focus, it's not considered a major update for existing devices. Presumably this means that to whatever extent the carriers are required to push out major updates, they're not bound by this with Tango.

-Edit- Tango is an update to Mango. Hard to do that if its only targeting emerging markets.

Every release of every product has a set of big-bullet items in that release, and a whole bunch of other stuff that isn't the main point of the release but go in anyway.

BTW there is some evidence that Tango isn't actually a release the way NoDo or Mango were, that what we're calling Tango is really a collection of releases falling into at least two major groups, Tango1 which reduced the memory requirements and added language packs, and Tango2 which added more language packs and LTE support and some other features.

Microsoft said they are pushing it to all devices unless for some reason a carrier blocks it.

All devices. There was some outlash over them not releasing 8107. Their response was that a better update is coming.

That's fine as far as it goes, but it doesn't go very far. Why should AT&T even bother testing it for devices that aren't being sold anymore? And if they don't bother testing it then why shouldn't they block it - after all there may be a critical bug on one of the variants of the Focus, or it may brick some phones.

 

[joemd60]

As far as I am concerned. By the time Apollo gets here, I will be due for an upgrade.

 

[canesfan625]

Sure. It's the next version of WP7, which targets emerging markets, includes bugfixes that were developed post-mango, etc. Because emerging markets are its primary focus, it's not considered a major update for existing devices. Presumably this means that to whatever extent the carriers are required to push out major updates, they're not bound by this with Tango.




Every release of every product has a set of big-bullet items in that release, and a whole bunch of other stuff that isn't the main point of the release but go in anyway.

BTW there is some evidence that Tango isn't actually a release the way NoDo or Mango were, that what we're calling Tango is really a collection of releases falling into at least two major groups, Tango1 which reduced the memory requirements and added language packs, and Tango2 which added more language packs and LTE support and some other features.



That's fine as far as it goes, but it doesn't go very far. Why should AT&T even bother testing it for devices that aren't being sold anymore? And if they don't bother testing it then why shouldn't they block it - after all there may be a critical bug on one of the variants of the Focus, or it may brick some phones.

The whole tango 1,2, 25, 75, hike rumor was debunked some time ago. Its one update.

For everything else, Microsoft unveils 'Tango' Windows Phone update (without ever using the codename) | ZDNet

 

[AngryNil]

Thurrott's track record is far from even decent. As for The Verge - remember when they claimed the iPad 2 was going to have expandable storage and a Retina display? Stop stating rumours as fact.

There's one version of Tango going to every phone out there. Why? Because Windows Phone is able to enable and disable features based on region, manufacturer and hardware. And that's exactly what Apollo should be doing.

I haven't seen any convincing argument against Apollo coming to current devices other than Microsoft / manufacturers / carriers being too lazy.

 

[paulm187]

The Nokia Lumia's will get WP8, although not all the features. I'll bet my left one on that.

 

[Fuzzy John]

The Nokia Lumia's will get WP8, although not all the features. I'll bet my left one on that.

Oh no!!! Not the left one!!!

 

[kenzibit]

You're making a category error here. Thurrott was talking about Microsoft's intentions with respect to Tango. I don't see why Microsoft can't add a few features to their OS while still targeting it primarily at new devices in new and emerging markets. But that's just Microsoft's intentions. AT&T and Nokia or Samsung or HTC may well have other intentions towards it - such as using it as a sop to the owners of their current devices a few months before Apollo rolls out and the world passes them bye.



But to which devices? All of their devices? Even if they say all devices what does "all" mean? All the ones they've ever sold, or all the ones they're selling now? Or only the ones they're selling at the time of the Tango rollout - which may mean only the 900 and Titan S get it?

You have a point there

 

[canesfan625]

You have a point there

ATT committed to an update that's better than 8107 on their very own forums when people demanded 8107. It wouldnt make much sense for them to only release it on certian devices when its being targeted to all current ones. Tango is a refresh of Tango respective to where its being released. In China its targeted towards emerging markets. Everywhere else (outside of emerging markets) its targeted as an update to mango. People are just over analyzing it

 

[jfa1]

ATT committed to an update that's better than 8107 on their very own forums when people demanded 8107. It wouldnt make much sense for them to only release it on certian devices when its being targeted to all current ones. Tango is a refresh of Tango respective to where its being released. In China its targeted towards emerging markets. Everywhere else (outside of emerging markets) its targeted as an update to mango. People are just over analyzing it

Thats a first! Ha Ha paralysis by (over)analysis. Or is it overreaction by over analysis?

 

[Joelist]

Thurrott's track record is far from even decent. As for The Verge - remember when they claimed the iPad 2 was going to have expandable storage and a Retina display? Stop stating rumours as fact.

There's one version of Tango going to every phone out there. Why? Because Windows Phone is able to enable and disable features based on region, manufacturer and hardware. And that's exactly what Apollo should be doing.

I haven't seen any convincing argument against Apollo coming to current devices other than Microsoft / manufacturers / carriers being too lazy.

Actually Thurotte has a pretty darn good track record. It's the Verge that has the laughable track record.

 

[canesfan625]

Actually Thurotte has a pretty darn good track record. It's the Verge that has the laughable track record.

Of what? Do you pay attention to his Apple shenanigans?

Lets not forget this: WinInfo Short Takes, April 20, 2012

Paul Thurrott confirms no Windows Phone 8 for any current handsets

He confirmed it? Yeah, Okay Rick.

 

[jrdatrackstar1223]

Here is why I don't think current devices (even the 900) won't get Apollo....

Both Microsoft and Nokia knew, before the "huge marketing" they have been claiming will come with the Lumia 900, that NO device would get Apollo. So why release the Lumia 900 only to abandon it 6 months later...? One word: hype.

Think about it. If they can get the Lumia to sell well, developers will come. The Lumia was meant to be a "here, look at what Microsoft is doing with a beautiful device" type of device to spark both consumer AND developer interest. This why Micorosft is only saying "all apps you develop for Windows Phone NOW will work later...". They carefully and purposefully worded that for DEVELOPERS because lets face it...developers WILL buy a different device when Apollo is released when current devices will be abandoned. They released the Lumia for APPS and HYPE as a precursor for their "strong push" with Apollo, so that developers will get behind a beautiful device, that has hype and marketing (if it indeed is selling well), and has a PROMISE of having backwards comparability for the APPS that are written for that beautiful device....

Microsoft knows they lost this round, and they know they will p'off a lot of their "cult" (being us, people who know about forms because lets face it....those are the majority of windows phone users). That's why they are starting over. Carriers (even Verizon) have said they will support Windows Phone 8, but do you think a carrier (especially Verizon) meant that in reference to current devices (their one device in Verizon's case)? No. They meant "hey, when you guys get Android-like high end specs (WITHOUT android), and put a beautiful OS like this (Windows Phone 8) on it, this could definitely compete with iPhone and Android (which they said they want so that competition will balance out more) and make us good money!".

I see Microsoft paying attention to the most important players here and the ones standing in the way of success: developers and carriers. They HAVE to get them on board first. In the scenario I described, carriers would be happy to rake in incoming new customers with the high end devices (to sway the Android following), and developers would know that apps they develop for WP7 will work later just fine (an issue Android is having with its fragmentation issues). In the end, someone has to lose, and it CANNOT be carriers. Unfortunately it will have to be us (and keep in mind that that's an EXTREMELY small number).

That said, I think Microsoft will be INSANE if they don't offer a similar program to their "Smoked by Windows Phone" campaign where people can trade in their current device for a Windows Phone. To "make things right" Microsoft BETTER do this (if I am right) because the average smartphone buyer won't pay 600 something dollars for Windows Phone 8 because they won't know why it's so valuable enough to pay 600 bucks when they JUST purchased a Lumia 900 on a contract....

Ironically, as others have stated in reference to the Smartphone Beta Test commercials, every Windows Phone user would be a beta tester lol...even for the device they are promoting. Why Microsoft would push this "beta test" for this long, knowing it was failing and waste people's money is beyond me though. They may have had high hopes that it would succeed, but after a year of no success and knowing the next update(s) wouldn't bring dramatic changes that many people cried for that were missing, they could have collected the complaints and "beta results" and had Windows Phone 8 AND the nicer devices out by now....

 

[AngryNil]

Actually Thurotte has a pretty darn good track record. It's the Verge that has the laughable track record.

Oh, do remind me. Who stated that Mango was not going to come out until 2012?

Thurrott.

 

[vantil]

Here is why I don't think current devices (even the 900) won't get Apollo....

Both Microsoft and Nokia knew, before the "huge marketing" they have been claiming will come with the Lumia 900, that NO device would get Apollo. So why release the Lumia 900 only to abandon it 6 months later...? One word: hype.

So you think spending hundreds of millions of dollars to promote WP7 and Lumia "hype" makes sense if you are planning to dumb them both in just 6 months and start all over? All that money just to boost the number of apps?

In my opinion: Nonsense. It absolutely makes no sense.
All that press that they are building now would turn against them and bite WP8 and Nokia in the a**. That bad press would kill the WP8 start and hurt Nokia HARD. It would be such a dumb move for both Microsoft and Nokia that I just can't imagine them doing it. They have been planning this for too long and planning it together from the day 1.

I would also bet my left one that atleast lumias get upgraded. Some way.

 

[smoledman]

It makes no sense for 7.x devices to get Apollo as so much of that is tied up in UEFI/NT kernel and new hardware support. What would be dumb is if 7.x owners did not get several more minor revisions for the next year.

 

[socialcarpet]

 

[rockstarzzz]

Click to view quoted image

Anyone dizzy? :dry

 

[CJ Thunder]

If the specs allow it, the phone will get it. MS is a software company. I could even see them developing other phone's drivers.

I don't think many early adopters would sing the praise of WP if we get left out in the rain. or buy a Windows 8 tablet...