Does Microsoft need to release a Nexus like device (nexus 5 not the 6)?

[Prince Mguni]

Does Microsoft need to release a Nexus like device (nexus 5 not the 6)

A Microsoft Lumia device is rumored to be in the works and i hope its like a nexus if they make a phone with flagship specs at ridiculous price maybe windows phone/windows 10 could gain some market share and i don't mean like the 830 i mean a phone with actual flagship specs (snap 801 , ram 3 gig ,16/32 gigs memory expandable) and release it world wide and it think can be done (OneplusOne ,Nexus 5)

 

[ACynicalLamp]

Re: Does Microsoft need to release a Nexus like device (nexus 5 not the 6)

It's not rumored it was confirmed since all phones here on out are MS Lumias.

The most recent comment about a new Lumia was probably taken out of context or misspoken and now people are freaking out about it. I think you should prepare yourself for the most recent Lumia to be an 830 rebrand so you're not so disappointed.

Also interesting idea for a Nexus like device line from MS, however OEMs get mad about competing with their software company in hardware. If you recall the hurt feelings the Surface caused. Since WP isn't the strongest currently, I don't think a Nexus like line is probable.

 

[Visa Declined]

Re: Does Microsoft need to release a Nexus like device (nexus 5 not the 6)

The most recent comment about a new Lumia was probably taken out of context or misspoken and now people are freaking out about it. I think you should prepare yourself for the most recent Lumia to be an 830 rebrand so you're not so disappointed

I agree 100%

People are already getting fired up about about this new phone, and dreaming about it being a flagship, it's only going to lead to disappointment.

 

[Harry Wild]

Re: Does Microsoft need to release a Nexus like device (nexus 5 not the 6)

Microsoft main focus is on the low to medium end of the smartphone marketplace. Most U.S. smartphone have been condition to get a flagship with subsidies. Microsoft just does not understand why Google makes the Nexus or Apple sells the "unlocked" versions of their iPhones at their stores and online stores. I guessing the guy/gal in charge of U.S. marketing only knows to position each new model that rolls out in the U.S. with an U.S. carrier that is exclusive to that phone model. It seems Microsoft does not think about the why it does not sell well with this practice; they been condition to sell it that way from the expensive marketing consultants they hire to do the strategy! It for the most part is a failed strategy but they keep on plugging away! LOL!

 

[tgp]

Re: Does Microsoft need to release a Nexus like device (nexus 5 not the 6)

I agree 100%

People are already getting fired up about about this new phone, and dreaming about it being a flagship, it's only going to lead to disappointment.

Hopefully it'll be something more, but by lowering our expectations we reduce the chances of being let down. And Microsoft doesn't have the best track record of exceeding expectations!

I guessing the guy/gal in charge of U.S. marketing only knows to position each new model that rolls out in the U.S. with an U.S. carrier that is exclusive to that phone model. It seems Microsoft does not think about the why it does not sell well with this practice; they been condition to sell it that way from the expensive marketing consultants they hire to do the strategy! It for the most part is a failed strategy but they keep on plugging away! LOL!

My theory is that Microsoft signs exclusive deals with the carriers because the carriers force them to. Windows Phones don't move well, and the carriers probably tell them "Us only or nothing!" By sharing WP sales with another carrier, it probably makes it not worth it to the carrier, when it's probably hardly worth it as it is.

 

[BJNavarre]

MS refers to the 830 as their "affordable flagship", so I'm guessing they consider it their Nexus 4/5-like device. All that it's really missing to be on par with a Nexus like device is a Snapdragon 800 processor, and I doubt that would really move sales much. It doesn't need more RAM, and its camera is better than the Nexus 5.

 

[ACynicalLamp]

Re: Does Microsoft need to release a Nexus like device (nexus 5 not the 6)

My theory is that Microsoft signs exclusive deals with the carriers because the carriers force them to. Windows Phones don't move well, and the carriers probably tell them "Us only or nothing!" By sharing WP sales with another carrier, it probably makes it not worth it to the carrier, when it's probably hardly worth it as it is.

This is not accurate. Nokia signed deals with the carriers because they had to. Nokia is a much smaller company than MS and doesn't have a lot of weight for bargaining.

However, MS is now the OEM so most likely this is why we're seeing Qi charging in the ATT Lumia 830. Which would ppossibly open the door to other things such as faster updates.

 

[TLRtheory]

Re: Does Microsoft need to release a Nexus like device (nexus 5 not the 6)

There's already a flagship phone with limited storage. Lumia Icon.

 

[tgp]

Re: Does Microsoft need to release a Nexus like device (nexus 5 not the 6)

This is not accurate. Nokia signed deals with the carriers because they had to. Nokia is a much smaller company than MS and doesn't have a lot of weight for bargaining.

Yes, you're correct. Until recently it would have been Nokia making the deals, not Microsoft. However, I do not think that it's going to make a difference now that it's Microsoft doing the bargaining. What do the carriers care? Assuming that this theory is correct, the carriers are concerned about which devices sell, not who the vendor is. Even if it's Microsoft, it's still a device with sluggish sales. What bargaining power does Microsoft have with the carriers?

 

[Visa Declined]

Re: Does Microsoft need to release a Nexus like device (nexus 5 not the 6)

There's already a flagship phone with limited storage. Lumia Icon.

It's hard to consider a phone with a 2 generation old cpu as being a flagship.

 

[TLRtheory]

It's hard to consider a phone with a 2 generation old cpu as being a flagship.

... in an age where slight incremental revisions count as a "generation"!

Lmao

 

[Visa Declined]

... in an age where slight incremental revisions count as a "generation"!

Lmao

For the Snapdragon 805, which is what current flagships are running, the 2.7 GHz CPU and Adreno 420 Gpu are not " slight incremental " revisions.

Unless you're in denial.

 

[TLRtheory]

For the Snapdragon 805, which is what current flagships are running, the 2.7 GHz CPU and Adreno 420 Gpu are not " slight incremental " revisions.

Unless you're in denial.

Denial is thinking a .5ghz clock speed bump and addition of some passive technologies is a "new generation," as you've inadvertently confirmed by trying to weasel GPU into the mix when it became evident to you that the change in CPU was being exaggerated on your end... this becomes even more true as we see Windows Phone proving day after day that efficiency and optimization matter a ton more than seeing the big numbers that impress less tech savvy folk...

 

[KhawarNadeem]

Denial is thinking a .5ghz clock speed bump and addition of some passive technologies is a "new generation," as you've inadvertently confirmed by trying to weasel GPU into the mix when it became evident to you that the change in CPU was being exaggerated on your end... this becomes even more true as we see Windows Phone proving day after day that efficiency and optimization matter a ton more than seeing the big numbers that impress less tech savvy folk...

I agree with that, completely. Android has completely ruined the concept of technological advance by chasing the specs race. There comes a point when the hardware is "good enough" to run any software, and from that point onwards it should become a matter of more features and power efficiency rather than 500Mhz speed bumps and obscenely high thermal budgets which make phones heat up like a pan on a stove.

Intel is actually keeping the same clock speeds and improving their power efficiency at this point because their CPUs are enough to run the softwares of this time. The Nexus One and Nexus S from ages ago were enough to power space shuttles. Heck, NASA has launched space shuttles based on a 16-bit 8086 Intel processor.

You don't NEED a Snapdragon 805 to make a flagship phone. What is wrong with people!?

 

[TLRtheory]

You don't NEED a Snapdragon 805 to make a flagship phone. What is wrong with people!?

Honestly, I think the entire way a "flagship" is perceived is flawed. Best specs don't make a phone a flagship... representing the underlying OS the best does.

 

[KhawarNadeem]

Honestly, I think the entire way a "flagship" is perceived is flawed. Best specs don't make a phone a flagship... representing the underlying OS the best does.

Yes, exactly. Precisely what I was getting at.
There are two things that can be used as a counter argument...

1. The S400 doesn't have passive listening, so we can't use the S800 Cortana features. Valid, but that's Qualcomm's fault. You think they couldn't have added the module to an S400? They just chose not to.

2. If a Snapdragon 400 phone can run all the apps an S800 can, and just as well, does it really matter which one is inside your device? Wouldn't you rather have a better display, better camera, more battery life, better antennas, etc rather than a .5Ghz faster CPU/GPU? These fast processors are actually making developers/programmers lazier. Look at Samsung: their solution of making TouchWiz smoother is slapping on more RAM and higher clockrates, instead of, you know, WRITING BETTER CODE. -_-

 

[Greywolf1967]

Yes, exactly. Precisely what I was getting at.
There are two things that can be used as a counter argument...

1. The S400 doesn't have passive listening, so we can't use the S800 Cortana features. Valid, but that's Qualcomm's fault. You think they couldn't have added the module to an S400? They just chose not to.

2. If a Snapdragon 400 phone can run all the apps an S800 can, and just as well, does it really matter which one is inside your device? Wouldn't you rather have a better display, better camera, more battery life, better antennas, etc rather than a .5Ghz faster CPU/GPU? These fast processors are actually making developers/programmers lazier. Look at Samsung: their solution of making TouchWiz smoother is slapping on more RAM and higher clockrates, instead of, you know, WRITING BETTER CODE. -_-

I have to agree here. Microsoft has never had to go back and revamp their code. Like a Car you can toss in all the HP (Horse Power), you want but then the questions are raised...can the frame handle all the power, can that power get to the street.

Google had to step back and produce a set of fixes called Project Butter, because all the insane power of faster chips were not fixing the lag issues Android faced. They learned you can't muscle away lag and bottle necks.

If you don't believe it, do what I did...run a Windows Phone and an Android for 2 weeks with no reset of the phones. The longer an Android runs without a power down and after a year no refresh the lag shows up.
Windows Phone runs as smooth day 1 as it does on day 365.

Microsoft code just works and works well. As does Android when it's fresh.

The fact that things run smooth on what is thought to be lesser hardware speaks volumes of the code.......the same can not be said of Android on equal lower spec hardware.

 

[BJNavarre]

Yes, exactly. Precisely what I was getting at.
There are two things that can be used as a counter argument...

1. The S400 doesn't have passive listening, so we can't use the S800 Cortana features. Valid, but that's Qualcomm's fault. You think they couldn't have added the module to an S400? They just chose not to.

2. If a Snapdragon 400 phone can run all the apps an S800 can, and just as well, does it really matter which one is inside your device? Wouldn't you rather have a better display, better camera, more battery life, better antennas, etc rather than a .5Ghz faster CPU/GPU? These fast processors are actually making developers/programmers lazier. Look at Samsung: their solution of making TouchWiz smoother is slapping on more RAM and higher clockrates, instead of, you know, WRITING BETTER CODE. -_-

I agree that it's not all about specs, but it is not Qualcomm's fault that Nokia decided to put S400s in some of their phones. The S800 was available, and Nokia decided to go with the cheaper processor.

Obviously you shouldn't just blindly compare specs from one phone to another -- WP 8.1 and iOS8 can both run smoother than an Android phone with much more RAM. OTOH, the latest iPhones generally slaughter the "flagship" windows phones in performance benchmarks, with the exception of the 1520 and Icon, which are running S800s. For general usage, it doesn't matter too much since WP 8.1 handles budget configurations quite well, but you'll notice it running some games and when you go to large or complex webpages.

So, it's not all about specs, it's about what provides the best user experience. The phone with the best specs isn't always going to be the best phone, but if you put better specs in the same phone, it'll typically provide a better user experience.

 

[KhawarNadeem]

I agree that it's not all about specs, but it is not Qualcomm's fault that Nokia decided to put S400s in some of their phones. The S800 was available, and Nokia decided to go with the cheaper processor.

Obviously you shouldn't just blindly compare specs from one phone to another -- WP 8.1 and iOS8 can both run smoother than an Android phone with much more RAM. OTOH, the latest iPhones generally slaughter the "flagship" windows phones, with the exception of the 1520 and Icon, which are running S800s. For general usage, it doesn't matter too much since WP 8.1 handles budget configurations quite well, but you'll notice it running some games and when if you go to large or complex webpages.

So, it's not all about specs, it's about what provides the best user experience. The phone with the best specs isn't always going to be the best phone, but if you put better specs in the same phone, it'll typically provide a better user experience.

Well, do you see a reason that Nokia would have selected an S800 when it costs much higher than S400, because so far in every 830 thread people are talking about how the 830 runs all the apps in the store, and most games, all the while using MUCH less battery power and generating less heat.

I agree when you say the device with the highest specs isn't necessarily the best device on the market. But come on, smartphones are PHONES. I am not stanning for the S400 here, but you have to admit... No matter how complex the app is, if the app is properly coded, it will most certainly NOT require a device with 2 Gigs of RAM and a processor that can do 20+ GFlops. These are phones, not workstations or something.

You make a valid argument, though, and I agree with the iPhone remark.

 

[realwarder]

Re: Does Microsoft need to release a Nexus like device (nexus 5 not the 6)

Microsoft do have to optimize IE JavaScript if they still to slower processors. You only have compare WP to say the iPhone or Android with similar Mhz CPUs to see its software sometimes lagging. I don't think their JavaScript engine is fully optimized for ARM processors.