File manager implementation ? an idea

[N_LaRUE]

There is a very long thread on If WP should have a file manager in it. I thought it would be interesting to explore how one could be implemented.

I would like to keep the topic on ideas of how it could be done rather than if. I?m going to start this off by talking about my idea which is based on more of a compromised solution and I?d like to hear from others their thoughts or ideas.

So this idea came to me this morning while I was in the shower, yeah I know, but there are worse things to think about.

First to define the basics of what is wanted (keeping in mind this is a compromise):

1. Store any file type on the phone
2. Access to folders and files by some type of explorer
3. Use of files in emails or other file transfer systems
4. Use of files in apps
5. Downloading and uploading to folders
6. Creation of more folders
7. Access to folders via USB

So during the long thread on 'if' a file manager should be done some information emerged that made me think. First, those who were against the file manager idea pointed out that Skydrive was the new file manager so one wasn?t needed and second was the fact we could access a storage area on the phone already via USB.

The other issues around creating a file manager system of some sort also had issues with the Windows Phone security model. To get a clearer idea of that here?s a link to a PDF which describes it in some detail. https://www.msec.be/mobcom/ws2013/presentations/david_hernie.pdf

So looking at everything I thought that maybe there?s a way to accomplish what I want but not change the overall function of the phone itself, just a bit of tweaking.

How my thought process went is like this:

If Skydrive is the new file manager. What if we allowed Skydrive to access the local storage area folders already on the phone? They would show up in Skydrive simply as folders. These folders don?t need to sync with the cloud but they can if so desired.

So what the benefits of this are:

1. Functionality of some apps don?t need to change if they already use Skydrive to access files
2. The functionality of the phone more less stays in tact
3. Only slight modification is needed to allow ?other? files on the phone (which full blown Skydrive does already)
4. Only modifications to some apps to allow downloading and transferring

Since the phone would still think of these files as cloud based the ability to install from Skydrive wouldn?t be allowed.

So in this instance it covers everything I want and still keeps things, more or less how the phone is. I'm not sure how the security fits in here.

I also think a more ?pure? integration with Skydrive on WP would make the experience even better.

So that is my suggestion in this. What do you think? I know it won?t suit everyone but it?s an idea like I said. A starting point.

 

[th0mas96]

yep, or really give an explicit place for files. And, more importantly, normally an app doesn't use it, but give them an option to share it to there. Every app could share and use files from it. this would result in:
-unchanged security, accounts and everything else is stored in the sandbox/local app storage
-the possibility to save something in this storage place, and to edit it with other apps (that support them)
-the ability to share the files (when developers did not include a sharing menu)
-access via usb ONLY to that folder - only the files you set free to share can be accessed, so there's no security problem.

 

[Ray Adams]

Not everything could be implemented as MS gives no access to file system.
Other thing already done
http://forums.windowscentral.com/wi...tp-server-file-manager-free-limited-time.html

 

[N_LaRUE]

Not everything could be implemented as MS gives no access to file system.
Other thing already done
http://forums.windowscentral.com/wi...tp-server-file-manager-free-limited-time.html

Thanks for the information but I was referring to a way of implementing a file manager taking into consideration the issues that exist. It's something that I would like to see MS do, not a developer.

 

[th0mas96]

Thanks for the information but I was referring to a way of implementing a file manager taking into consideration the issues that exist. It's something that I would like to see MS do, not a developer.

yep. it's nothing a developer could do. I still think a partition of isolated storage that every app can access would be the best compromise, it's not the perfect solution but imo security is more important.

 

[vish2801]

yep. it's nothing a developer could do. I still think a partition of isolated storage that every app can access would be the best compromise, it's not the perfect solution but imo security is more important.

And imo, MS can create file manager for sd card. Make sd cards mandatory for wp or just put a separate partition for apps installation. Because, such tight sandbox is unnecessary. We need features, I know many people complaining and don't want to Jump in wp eco due to only this feature.Even I don't use wp as my primary device because of this limitation. You can find one live example in that file mabager thread whereone guy didn't buy lumia because of this limitation only.We must really stop about ******** about this so called security model, we need windows RT'S Sandboxon wp.

@topic Not everyone has hi speed net connection and unlimited data plans, if skydrive is the solution, what's the need of so much space in the phone.

 

[N_LaRUE]

And imo, MS can create file manager for sd card. Make sd cards mandatory for wp or just put a separate partition for apps installation. Because, such tight sandbox is unnecessary. We need features, I know many people complaining and don't want to Jump in wp eco due to only this feature.Even I don't use wp as my primary device because of this limitation. You can find one live example in that file mabager thread whereone guy didn't buy lumia because of this limitation only.We must really stop about ******** about this so called security model, we need windows RT'S Sandboxon wp.

@topic Not everyone has hi speed net connection and unlimited data plans, if skydrive is the solution, what's the need of so much space in the phone.

I personally don't like the limitations that WP has but I think discussion on how to implement a useful file manager is worth the effort. My idea here is not to use Skydrive purely as a 'cloud' based file manager but as a general file manager and still maintain the usual operation of the phone itself. It's an idea.

As for the space, well that's for games, media (video, photos, music) and of course apps. You can access a storage area on the phone via USB, you just can't access that storage area on the phone itself. This is the part that you and I and others would like to see changed. I think it's necessary.

 

[Ray Adams]

We all hope that MS will open access to file System, which we can see when attaching phone to PC. I see no reason why MS no opening it. Unfortunately MS never hears us, neither developers , nor users. They live in their own world and thinks in unknown ways. And I am continue to say, MS will lost everything in mobile if not changing their minds. Even apple is thinking to make SDK more developers friendly , not talking about android ��

 

[vish2801]

This is one of the reason I hate apple,it took a lot of essential features from mobile OS space and iSheeps adapted it too. MS blatantly copied apple in wp7, now it's try to being some open like providing Bluetooth sharing,mass storage but will it implement file manager ?? I have very high hopes from Blue update, I hope WindowsRT and WP will share same sandbox and so we'll get more freedom in our beautiful Lumias in future....Screw You Apple....

 

[th0mas96]

This is one of the reason I hate apple,it took a lot of essential features from mobile OS space and iSheeps adapted it too. MS blatantly copied apple in wp7, now it's try to being some open like providing Bluetooth sharing,mass storage but will it implement file manager ?? I have very high hopes from Blue update, I hope WindowsRT and WP will share same sandbox and so we'll get more freedom in our beautiful Lumias in future....Screw You Apple....

But it has numerous advantages, too. What do you expect when you give an average consumer complete access to the filesystem? Bricked, or at least non-booting devices every day. Even worse, every app could access anything on the phone. It opens the way to malware, and to corruption from the user. Just look at jailbroken iPhones, they can really awesome with all the addons, but give an ***** that only jailbreaks for cracked apps root access - you'll get thousands of devices sent to the manufacturer, complaints etc. The result would be the need for antivirus, the need for every developer to encrypt everything he wants to store for his app and an even worse image of WP.

 

[vish2801]

But it has numerous advantages, too. What do you expect when you give an average consumer complete access to the filesystem? Bricked, or at least non-booting devices every day. Even worse, every app could access anything on the phone. It opens the way to malware, and to corruption from the user. Just look at jailbroken iPhones, they can really awesome with all the addons, but give an ***** that only jailbreaks for cracked apps root access - you'll get thousands of devices sent to the manufacturer, complaints etc. The result would be the need for antivirus, the need for every developer to encrypt everything he wants to store for his app and an even worse image of WP.

We're talking about limited file manager with access to personal files only. And why are you so much obsessed about such tight sandbox ?? Frankly, if people were too much careful about tight security, nobody would have been buying android anymore. We really need some basic features badly. WindowsRT has also sand box but we can have best features available on ARM, we need that sandbox in WP. Everyone will be happy...

 

[th0mas96]

We're talking about limited file manager with access to personal files only. And why are you so much obsessed about such tight sandbox ?? Frankly, if people were too much careful about tight security, nobody would have been buying android anymore. We really need some basic features badly. WindowsRT has also sand box but we can have best features available on ARM, we need that sandbox in WP. Everyone will be happy...

that's what I say, there should be a compromise. I think, the best part would be an isolated storage part that everyone can access, an explorer app, every other app and the pc (via USB). but not every app's storage.

 

[Robert Carpenter]

Going by what we are seeing with Windows 8.1, a file manager will never happen. However, what will happen is much deeper integration with Skydrive that will satisfy all your needs.

In Windows 8.1, all apps that save/open files can now save and open files using Skydrive without any existing modification.

In the end, you will have the current Isolated Storage and Skydrive as the two file management options, each with specific purposes. Anything that needs to be secure should use isolated storage. Anything that needs to be secure automatically implies that it is a file that should not be shared across apps so therefore Isolated Storage will suffice. Any files that are intended to be used by multiple apps and shared across devices will use Skydrive.

If they allow Skydrive to have it's own local storage on the phone while syncing to the cloud, like how it works on a PC, it will cover all the bases.

I found new Skydrive functionality in Windows 8.1 that adds Peer-2-Peer capabilities. How this is going to be used, I'm not sure. One possibility that seems very likely is that when you have two devices on the same network, they connect to each other to sync instead of using the internet.

Therefore if they inplimented a local storage sync for Skydrive in Windows Phone, you could avoid a lot of situations where you would be using your data plan because as soon as you walk into your house and connect to wifi, Skydrive will send all your files directly to your Tablet/PC/Laptop. From there, your Tablet/PC/Laptop could sync with the cloud using your home internet service which is much faster and has a much higher bandwidth cap.

There are just my predictions, but I have been very accurate with my predictions over the last 6 months. I seem to understand exactly how Microsoft is approaching things.

What I want to express overall is new ways of thinking. Instead of spending your time brainstorming ideas and thinking of ways to incorporate our old methods of stuff (the old legacy file manager approach), we should be thinking of new and different ways to accomplish what we actually achieve by using the old approaches.

Wishful thinking,
rob

 

[vish2801]

that's what I say, there should be a compromise. I think, the best part would be an isolated storage part that everyone can access, an explorer app, every other app and the pc (via USB). but not every app's storage.

Actually you replied in such manner that if file explorer is provided wp will be full of viruses so I just explained that we are demanding personal file explorer only. Let apps allow to access personal files but not each others....

 

[vish2801]

Going by what we are seeing with Windows 8.1, a file manager will never happen. However, what will happen is much deeper integration with Skydrive that will satisfy all your needs.

In Windows 8.1, all apps that save/open files can now save and open files using Skydrive without any existing modification.

In the end, you will have the current Isolated Storage and Skydrive as the two file management options, each with specific purposes. Anything that needs to be secure should use isolated storage. Anything that needs to be secure automatically implies that it is a file that should not be shared across apps so therefore Isolated Storage will suffice. Any files that are intended to be used by multiple apps and shared across devices will use Skydrive.

If they allow Skydrive to have it's own local storage on the phone while syncing to the cloud, like how it works on a PC, it will cover all the bases.

I found new Skydrive functionality in Windows 8.1 that adds Peer-2-Peer capabilities. How this is going to be used, I'm not sure. One possibility that seems very likely is that when you have two devices on the same network, they connect to each other to sync instead of using the internet.

Therefore if they inplimented a local storage sync for Skydrive in Windows Phone, you could avoid a lot of situations where you would be using your data plan because as soon as you walk into your house and connect to wifi, Skydrive will send all your files directly to your Tablet/PC/Laptop. From there, your Tablet/PC/Laptop could sync with the cloud using your home internet service which is much faster and has a much higher bandwidth cap.

There are just my predictions, but I have been very accurate with my predictions over the last 6 months. I seem to understand exactly how Microsoft is approaching things.

What I want to express overall is new ways of thinking. Instead of spending your time brainstorming ideas and thinking of ways to incorporate our old methods of stuff (the old legacy file manager approach), we should be thinking of new and different ways to accomplish what we actually achieve by using the old approaches.

Wishful thinking,
rob

Then say goodbye to many potential users from countries like India, as I already said, Skydrive is not at all replacement. And what's use of local storage when you can't access your files locally ?? Even 520 cannot save wp because a lot of local companies here producing very cheap Android phones with higher specs at very low cost.... RIP Nokia....

 

[N_LaRUE]

Going by what we are seeing with Windows 8.1, a file manager will never happen. However, what will happen is much deeper integration with Skydrive that will satisfy all your needs.

In Windows 8.1, all apps that save/open files can now save and open files using Skydrive without any existing modification.

In the end, you will have the current Isolated Storage and Skydrive as the two file management options, each with specific purposes. Anything that needs to be secure should use isolated storage. Anything that needs to be secure automatically implies that it is a file that should not be shared across apps so therefore Isolated Storage will suffice. Any files that are intended to be used by multiple apps and shared across devices will use Skydrive.

If they allow Skydrive to have it's own local storage on the phone while syncing to the cloud, like how it works on a PC, it will cover all the bases.

I found new Skydrive functionality in Windows 8.1 that adds Peer-2-Peer capabilities. How this is going to be used, I'm not sure. One possibility that seems very likely is that when you have two devices on the same network, they connect to each other to sync instead of using the internet.

Therefore if they inplimented a local storage sync for Skydrive in Windows Phone, you could avoid a lot of situations where you would be using your data plan because as soon as you walk into your house and connect to wifi, Skydrive will send all your files directly to your Tablet/PC/Laptop. From there, your Tablet/PC/Laptop could sync with the cloud using your home internet service which is much faster and has a much higher bandwidth cap.

There are just my predictions, but I have been very accurate with my predictions over the last 6 months. I seem to understand exactly how Microsoft is approaching things.

What I want to express overall is new ways of thinking. Instead of spending your time brainstorming ideas and thinking of ways to incorporate our old methods of stuff (the old legacy file manager approach), we should be thinking of new and different ways to accomplish what we actually achieve by using the old approaches.

Wishful thinking,
rob

I'm hoping I understand what you're saying. I haven't looked at Win 8.1 so not sure what you're talking about 100%

I have very little doubt that Skydrive will be more integrated into WP in the future. If however MS doesn't address the issues with access files in the storage area within the phone itself then it's quite possible they'll kill off a large portion of their market, especially in third world countries. A full file manager I believe will never happen but the need for a system to access files of all types and the ability to download any type of file is also a requirement. Having this locked down the way it is just plainly silly. They need to open up a file sharing capability that allows people to use personal files. I'm not asking for a complete file manager system as that reduces security too much.

 

[Robert Carpenter]

I'm hoping I understand what you're saying. I haven't looked at Win 8.1 so not sure what you're talking about 100%

I have very little doubt that Skydrive will be more integrated into WP in the future. If however MS doesn't address the issues with access files in the storage area within the phone itself then it's quite possible they'll kill off a large portion of their market, especially in third world countries. A full file manager I believe will never happen but the need for a system to access files of all types and the ability to download any type of file is also a requirement. Having this locked down the way it is just plainly silly. They need to open up a file sharing capability that allows people to use personal files. I'm not asking for a complete file manager system as that reduces security too much.

I don't understand why you have little doubt about Windows Phone Skydrive integration.

Windows 8 did not have native Skydrive integration and now Windows 8.1 does. I'm willing to bet thousands of dollars that deeper Skydrive integration will come to Windows Phone. If you don't agree, then I believe you do not belong on this platform. There are different platform options for a very good reason, no platform will satisfy every person's needs.

I don't think you quite understood what I was saying in my last post, but that's fine. As a high level tech, I have a better understanding of it. There are design choices that someone in your shoes will never be able to comprehend, but that's life.

In the end, Microsoft will provide a solution that allows you to achieve what you want. However, if you are not one to welcome change and new ways of thinking, you will not be satisfied. If you take the time to adjust and teach yourself how to fully utilize these new ways, you will understand that the end result is the same, and the steps it took to reach that end result are improved.

I hope you understand the situation a little better.

 

[nasellok]

I am an Android user thinking of switching to WP8 (specifically Lumia 928), and am wondering if someone can answer a ? for me:

When transferring music, or data files to the phone - do you have to use the sync software, or can you just plug it in, and access a file explorer for the phone (usb mass storage - what its called in Android). Do you have to do stupid things like in iTunes, like select an app that you want the files to be associated with in the sync software, and then you are forced to use that app - like, if i choose to use Nokia Music to play music, but down the line, VLC releases a WP8 app, would i be able to open those music files with that different app, or am i forced to go into the sync software, and re-upload. I have an iPad, and literally dont use it anymore because iTunes is the worst software solution on earth. If WP8 sync software is anywhere as bad, sorry to say its a no go for me.

If MS decided that this was the best way, im sorry to say, I will be forced into Andoid for one more cycle - ill let the MS ecosystem mature a bit before I get into it (that being said, I am a Surface RT beta tester....i mean owner). I love Windows 8, and the idea of WP8, but from what im seeing, there isnt many advantages of going all in on the MS ecosystem yet (ie, there is no consistency between Windows phone, and Windows 8/RT). I am patiently waiting to see this next update (im not in any hurry to move), my next phone will be full price due to some good old VZW price gouging (to keep my unlimited data plan)

 

[N_LaRUE]

I don't understand why you have little doubt about Windows Phone Skydrive integration.

Windows 8 did not have native Skydrive integration and now Windows 8.1 does. I'm willing to bet thousands of dollars that deeper Skydrive integration will come to Windows Phone. If you don't agree, then I believe you do not belong on this platform. There are different platform options for a very good reason, no platform will satisfy every person's needs.

I don't think you quite understood what I was saying in my last post, but that's fine. As a high level tech, I have a better understanding of it. There are design choices that someone in your shoes will never be able to comprehend, but that's life.

In the end, Microsoft will provide a solution that allows you to achieve what you want. However, if you are not one to welcome change and new ways of thinking, you will not be satisfied. If you take the time to adjust and teach yourself how to fully utilize these new ways, you will understand that the end result is the same, and the steps it took to reach that end result are improved.

I hope you understand the situation a little better.

I think we're misunderstanding each other here. I'm agreeing with you. I know things have to be done differently in WP and yes I know that MS will do things in a way that will help us achieve what we want. I've already explained that I don't want a full blown file manager. I got confused with some of the things you were saying simply because it appeared in one way you were agreeing with what I said but also appeared to be disagreeing. So that's where I was getting confused.

What I meant by I'm not surprised there will be deeper integration with WP and Windows 8 (8.1) through to 9 is just that. MS appears to be focused on cloud computing so it only makes sense deeper integration would be logical. I may not be a high level IT person but I know enough to see the obvious.

 

[N_LaRUE]

When transferring music, or data files to the phone - do you have to use the sync software, or can you just plug it in, and access a file explorer for the phone (usb mass storage - what its called in Android). Do you have to do stupid things like in iTunes, like select an app that you want the files to be associated with in the sync software, and then you are forced to use that app - like, if i choose to use Nokia Music to play music, but down the line, VLC releases a WP8 app, would i be able to open those music files with that different app, or am i forced to go into the sync software, and re-upload. I have an iPad, and literally dont use it anymore because iTunes is the worst software solution on earth. If WP8 sync software is anywhere as bad, sorry to say its a no go for me.

Basically you have a 'phone storage' available when using Windows Explorer and the SD card is called something else (I have a 920). So both accessible. There is a sync program for Win 7 and an app for Win 8 but you don't need it.

At this stage I believe that everything is locked to MS or Nokia software on the phone for web, music and video (I'm not 100% sure of this). I don't believe you can change this currently. However I'm assuming any app that you wish to use will be able to access the files once in the app. Once the proper integration between Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 is finally sorted it will probably be a better. Whether they open up so you can choose your browser, media player and so on I have no idea. We're kind of left in the dark as to what MS is up to.