Good times; future fragmentation of Windows Phone

[tgp]

Will Windows 10 run smooth on low end hardware? As smooth as they can make it. But let's face reality here. In what ecosystem does any budget phone match the features and fluidity of a high end model. NONE. And don't you dare throw iOS in there. The last gen devices always get left out of something the year before they get EOLed.

iOS doesn't even have low end devices. What is called low end is several-year-old flagships. They simply age out.

Fragmentation? Not really. Windows Phone does a way better job of bringing every device forward and making the UX homogenous than Android ever has.

Android, especially low end devices, get left behind in updates. But they do continue to work. Many of the apps in the Play Store today will work fine even on Froyo, which was released in May 2010, almost 5 years ago.

Speaking of iOS the 4s did not receive the upgrade to iOS 8, and iOS 7 is slow in comparison (to iOS 6) on the same hardware.

I believe you're a version off here. The iPhone 4s got iOS 8, but the 4 didn't. The 4s will not get iOS 9 if Apple continues their current cycle.

 

[chris722]

iOS doesn't even have low end devices. What is called low end is several-year-old flagships. They simply age out.



Android, especially low end devices, get left behind in updates. But they do continue to work. Many of the apps in the Play Store today will work fine even on Froyo, which was released in May 2010, almost 5 years ago.



I believe you're a version off here. The iPhone 4s got iOS 8, but the 4 didn't. The 4s will not get iOS 9 if Apple continues their current cycle.

I think you're right. Wow, so that phone really sucks. My biggest issue with iPhone is the inability to upgrade storage. 8 GB does not go far. Although video recording is pretty nice on those phones.

 

[theefman]

I predict there will be tons of threads like this with lots of hand wringing from people expecting their cheap phones and tablets to be upgraded forever which clearly happens with other platforms and Microsoft is just being evil......

 

[rhapdog]

People always want to run their divices on the latest software. I am always wondering about that. Nobody belives a 1970 xt computer capable of running Windows 8.1 with 640k memory and a hard disk of 10 Mb, but when a new operating system of a phone demands 1 G instead of 512 Mb the world is too small and MS is the worst company ever.

I got a real laugh out of this one. While the basic gist of what you have said is true, the dates, numbers, and facts don't match. An XT computer didn't come out for another decade. I got my first XT in 1982, and there was no such thing as a 10MB Hard Disk, you used floppy drives. In 1970, storage medium consisted of reel to reel tapes and punch cards. Been there, done that. Worked on the main frames. I got my first 20MB HDD in 1985, and had the largest capacity of anyone I knew personally. I was the envy of all my friends. They thought, "How will you ever fill all that up?" Yeah, you can laugh now.

I got a 200MB HDD in 1986, and it was over $800 back then.

Okay, back on topic. Yeah, I fully expect my 635 to upgrade without any issues. Is it because I just expect inferior hardware to work forever? No, it's because Microsoft said it would. I don't expect to get the camera features that the PureView lumia cameras have. So what? I didn't buy one of those. I do expect to have the new movable keyboard, with the pointer stick, and better Office apps, better outlook, better Skype, and the ability to run Universal Apps as they are published to the store. Of course, apps that require minimum 1GB to run, I won't expect to run. I don't expect it now because I know I have a 512MB device.

I'm not worried about this one bit. Fragmentation? That's only going to come from carriers that refuse to let the upgrade go through where the end user refuses to jump on the preview to get it anyway. If you really want it bad enough, you can get it. I've got WP8.1.1 on Preview, and am REALLY happy with it compared to regular 8.1. Less resuming for me, and other features that have been added I really like.

About the fragmentation problem:
The whole point of Windows 10 is to eventually do away with the fragmentation issues. By rolling out updates free to everyone for the supported life of the device, then, as Microsoft said, it will come to the point that asking "What version are you running" will be meaningless, because everyone will be on the same version at some point in the future.

Yeah, there are still people trying to run Windows 95 and I've seen a couple on Windows 3.1 and DOS still (yes, even today), but those people aren't trying to get modern apps and surf the net. One precious lady running Windows 95 was just using a very, very old copy of MS Word to write her memoirs for her children to have one day. Had an old 14" CRT monitor that made my eyes hurt. Somehow I don't think those kind of people will really have an impact on the overall applications market. Before long, people are going to be treating XP and Vista the same way they do Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 right now. They simply won't continue to write applications for them. No worries.

 

[RumoredNow]

iOS doesn't even have low end devices. What is called low end is several-year-old flagships. They simply age out.

Definitely part of my point - most assume last gen IS the low end for iPhone or at least it gets treated that way during consumer purchasing.

Android, especially low end devices, get left behind in updates. But they do continue to work. Many of the apps in the Play Store today will work fine even on Froyo, which was released in May 2010, almost 5 years ago.

And a Windows Phone will be in the same boat. Don't leap to 10 and it will still work. But note where most Android budget phones don't ever get even one OTA and users need to mod to upgrade. Windows phone is very different in that respect.

I believe you're a version off here. The iPhone 4s got iOS 8, but the 4 didn't. The 4s will not get iOS 9 if Apple continues their current cycle.

Yeah... Apple just drops them off the back end for updates and that's also part of what gets them lumped in as "budget" iOS devices in my mind.

 

[tgp]

Android, especially low end devices, get left behind in updates. But they do continue to work. Many of the apps in the Play Store today will work fine even on Froyo, which was released in May 2010, almost 5 years ago.

And a Windows Phone will be in the same boat. Don't leap to 10 and it will still work. But note where most Android budget phones don't ever get even one OTA and users need to mod to upgrade. Windows phone is very different in that respect.

True, but I think you're doing like was mentioned somewhere else, glorifying updates for the sake of getting an update. Android is not the platform frantically trying to catch up to the competition. WP needs updates more than Android or iOS do.

 

[JamesDax]

I'll tell you one thing that won't be fragmented. The crying that goes on in this forum.

 

[RumoredNow]

I'll tell you one thing that won't be fragmented. The crying that goes on in this forum.

Thanks. Very True.

True, but I think you're doing like was mentioned somewhere else, glorifying updates for the sake of getting an update. Android is not the platform frantically trying to catch up to the competition. WP needs updates more than Android or iOS do.

As a correlation look at all the crying in Android forums over the updates never coming. (I've been active on those forums, I've read the posts.)

Sure Android isn't playing catchup with anyone and has not been for a couple of years. Doesn't mean that budget Android users say, "Meh, I don't want an update. I'm just happy to watch on the sidelines as all the newer models get upgraded to new versions." Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

 

[tgp]

As a correlation look at all the crying in Android forums over the updates never coming. (I've been active on those forums, I've read the posts.)

Sure Android isn't playing catchup with anyone and has not been for a couple of years. Doesn't mean that budget Android users say, "Meh, I don't want an update. I'm just happy to watch on the sidelines as all the newer models get upgraded to new versions." Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

Of course! Everybody wants updates. I can't wait to install updates that are little more than a version number bump.

Sent from whatever device I happen to be using today using Tapatalk

 

[rhapdog]

I wouldn't say "Everybody wants updates."

Personally, and I know quite a few people that feel the same way, if something works the way I need it to, I don't need an update for it.

Most software as it updates over the years tends to just add bloat to it. Some add useful features, and that is welcome. If it already does everything it was intended to do and everything the users need, then there is no need to do further updates.

A lot of software these days, however, seems to be released before it was ready, so that software needs constant updates to bring it up to where it should have been when it was initially released.

As far as OS updates go, Windows Mobile 5 worked just fine for me for 7 years. Right now I'm perfectly happy with Windows Phone 8.1 as far as just a phone OS. What has me excited about new updates to Windows 10 is the capabilities I will gain between the laptop and phone. I can't say when the last was when I was actually excited or looking forward to an OS update, except when I was waiting for bug fixes in early versions of DOS. I think the last OS I just HAD to go out and get right away was Windows 98, simply because I was so sick of all the crashing in Windows 95. Since then, nothing has really had the absolute wow factor. Windows 8.1 for PC has wowed me even more, but I hated it for the first couple of weeks, until I stopped trying to make it work like XP and started using it for what it was. Then I discovered how glorious it was.

Yes, I am looking forward to Windows 10, and will be installing previews for my Laptop and Phone, but I'm not one of those who are going to melt down if it isn't distributed immediately, like many seem to be. Then again, a lot of people start sweating and having heart palpitations if forced to do without their phone for an hour.

 

[Jas00555]

Of course! Everybody wants updates. I can't wait to install updates that are little more than a version number bump.

Sent from whatever device I happen to be using today using Tapatalk

You're putting what you want on the general population. Most people I know hate updates, "oh, another one! It works just fine how it is right now!". My family, for example, only updates their stuff so they can get rid of notification.

 

[RumoredNow]

Of course! Everybody wants updates. I can't wait to install updates that are little more than a version number bump.

Sent from whatever device I happen to be using today using Tapatalk

LOL my sarcasm meter pegged pretty hard on that one.

Would you then classify moving from 8.1.1 to 10 as just a number change? Remember we are discussing the move to 10 for budget phones in this thread. Not the chimerical Denim on a 520 when you already have P4D.

 

[TechFreak1]

If anyone is to be blamed for causing fragmentation is the carriers not Microsoft i.e the Lumia 810, Icon. HTC 8X to name a few.

OP's concern's was already addressed in this article: All modern Windows Phones can get Windows 10, flagship 'later this summer' | Windows Central

Here is an extract -

"Yes, all current Windows Phone 8 and 8.1 devices can get Windows 10 as an upgrade. Sure, there could be some restrictions (mostly the camera), but the Lumia 530 and Lumia 635 are just as likely to get this update as the Lumia 1520 and Lumia 930.


Microsoft was certainly showing off all of their current phones with Windows 10 today and boasting about this fact.


Even for the Windows 10 preview program, all of those phones should be able to get the upgrade. Microsoft has said this for a while now, so this isn't even news. However, I can state that as of today, they are still sticking to that message."

 

[tgp]

Even for the Windows 10 preview program, all of those phones should be able to get the upgrade.

This could be the basis that Microsoft is using to promise that all WP8/8.1 devices can get W10. It's very safe for them to give us that. It leaves them an out if they decide not to push W10 officially for some devices.

I would expect that if any devices are left behind, it would be the low end. The problem is that they are the bulk of WP's out there. There are relatively few existing high end phones, which are the ones that will benefit a lot more from WP10.

 

[TechFreak1]

This could be the basis that Microsoft is using to promise that all WP8/8.1 devices can get W10. It's very safe for them to give us that. It leaves them an out if they decide not to push W10 officially for some devices.

I would expect that if any devices are left behind, it would be the low end. The problem is that they are the bulk of WP's out there. There are relatively few existing high end phones, which are the ones that will benefit a lot more from WP10.

I highly doubt they (MS) would let that happen, if another debacle akin to the wp7 upgrade fiasco was to happen, the team would get hung, drawn and quartered not just by the users who stuck it for the past couple of years but by the media the world over as it is going to be one of THE high profile releases in the IT industry. Simply because it would be the (in eyes of average Joe and most of the media) the first time where there is a unified experience across a multitude of form factors.

Of course us techies know that is not entirely true as that experience is determined by what your hard is capable of running.

 

[Keith Wallace]

If Microsoft bypasses the 512 MB of RAM devices for Windows 10, I will respond with this:

GOOD.

Those types of devices are bottom-of-the-barrel hardware, and working on those devices hurts the high-end badly. The Lumia 435 that's coming has 1 GB of RAM, and it's so cheap it's a new class of budget device on its own. Microsoft shouldn't be trying to placate those who bought phones 2 years ago and don't want to upgrade, when it means avoiding new features and overall ecosystem advancement. At the rate technology often progresses, 2 years on such a cheap device is more than reasonable to expect.

What's more, the possible scenario is that rather than skipping 512-MB RAM devices, Microsoft will strip out many higher-end features. We've already seen this mindset with keeping Key, Cortana from things under the Snapdragon 800-series devices. Throwing a fit that an old, budget device doesn't run the latest and greatest is silly, in my opinion. Doing it without any confirmation to the fact is just looking for a reason to complain.

 

[tgp]

If Microsoft bypasses the 512 MB of RAM devices for Windows 10, I will respond with this:

GOOD.

One problem with this remains: most of the WP devices out there fall into this category. The 520 itself makes up about 1/3 of all WP8 devices sold to date. I can't see it going over well if a lot of existing devices don't get W10. That said, it could be that if they do get it, the experience would be gimped to the point of scarcely being an advantage over 8.1.

 

[rhapdog]

If Microsoft bypasses the 512 MB of RAM devices for Windows 10, I will respond with this:

GOOD.

Like tgp said, 520 makes up a large portion.

However, if you're talking that it is okay to abandon "older" hardware, okay, fine. What about the brand new Lumia 635, which has taken off like crazy? It's only 512MB, but it runs like a champ for me. Way better than the 520 that I upgraded from.

Yes, I expect to be able to upgrade to Windows 10 on my 635 without issues, because Microsoft said the modern phones would be covered, and this one just came out, so it has to be covered. It's not old.

Do I expect it to do everything with Windows 10 that a future 1530 can do? Nope. But then again, I didn't pay for those features, so I'm not at all upset about it. I do expect to get my money's worth, and that's about it. But I want my money's worth using Windows 10 on both my Laptop and my phone, simply for the tight integration and Universal Apps if nothing else.

 

[muneshyne21]

It happened when Android switched from Gingerbread to Honeycomb. The huge population with Froyo and Eclair were left in the dust. The fact that Microsoft can bring even a majority of the old phones into Windows 10 (limited functionality or not) is quite a feat. Even Apple had to leave the iPhone4 behind after the new software with Siri was introduced. You are limited by the hardware requirements. If my 928 can be updated I will be amazed. It keeps my phone relevant after 2 years and 2 major OS updates. That's no small order. No wonder Verizon is pissed at Microsoft...

 

[Kaushik Dash]

Not getting W10 for my 620 will definitely be a let down but frankly, it's an ageing device with only features that are not present in the current low end or even mid range device keeping it alive. If it gets the update, all I want is the new core OS features, not any hardware related features (such as camera improvements, handsfree Cortana, miracast, etc and few softwares such as multi screen (if it comes at all)).