How bad is "Resuming" on the 830?

[KhawarNadeem]

It depends:


Someone who consistently closes the apps they use will never see the resuming message.


Someone who uses only WP8.0 apps and never closes them will see the resuming message just as often as they did on the 920, assuming the exact same version of those WP8.0 apps are used.

Um, I'm confused with your first statement. Isn't it that if you *don't* swipe close the app, it'll be faster to resume and hence you *won't* see the Resuming screen? Because I am pretty sure I close the Nokia camera app in the background and when I wake it using camera button I still see it for a second or two (and yes, it says Resuming not Loading).

And what about the "App fast resume" thing MS was touting? Did they announce that with 8.1 or 8.0? Shouldn't it have instant loadup times for 8.0 apps even if they're running 8.1?

And to the poster above, MixRadio doesn't have a Resuming screen, but the splash screen and all take a while to load up on my 925 even I don't completely close the app. By comparison Xbox Music loads up considerably faster.

I still dislike how 8.1 feels slower at launching apps than 8.0 though. It's my only gripe with the update.

 

[a5cent]

I said side by side. Opening and closing the same apps on both devices, 920 running Cyan and the latest OS. Aside from that, the anecdotes are piling up that confirm in general usage (where there are more variables), the 830 still seems consistently better here. There's nothing inconclusive about it.

I'm not sure what you are saying here.

My point is only that no matter how you compare the two, side by side or however, there is nothing that allows you to conclude that the SoC has any impact on how frequently we encounter the resuming message. Nothing. That is all I'm objecting to.

However, we do know of many software related changes made to 8.1 that do influence resuming behavior.

What I'm not objecting to, is that the SoC could influence for HOW LONG we see that resuming message, whenever it is shown. I don't know that to be true, but it is certainly possible.

I also have an 830 (denim) and 920 (cyan) with the same apps. I would say I see the resuming message just as frequently on both, but on the 830 the delay is a bit shorter.

 

[kevm14]

My point is only that no matter how you compare the two, side by side or however, there is nothing that allows you to conclude that the SoC has any impact on how frequently we encounter the resuming message. Nothing. That is all I'm objecting to.

However, we do know of many software related changes made to 8.1 that do influence resuming behavior.

It is possible to run the dev preview (and thus latest WP) on the 920 and rule out software changes. And some folks have done this. The only thing you'd be missing is Denim on the 920. Otherwise the differences should be ENTIRELY SoC related.

 

[Chris_Kez]

...I would say I see the resuming message just as frequently on both, but on the 830 the delay is a bit shorter.

And I would say this is probably the more salient point that better addresses my concern. Is "Resuming" better/worse/ same on the 830 as compared to the 920? I don't expect anyone to literally count the number of instances, or use high-speed photography to time their duration.

 

[a5cent]

It is possible to run the dev preview (and thus latest WP) on the 920 and rule out software changes. And some folks have done this. The only thing you'd be missing is Denim on the 920. Otherwise the differences should be ENTIRELY SoC related.

I agree. If software is actually the same. However, how many of the posts here specify OS and app version they had compared with? Almost none. I suspect few ensured they tested with the same OS and app versions. Both of those are far more important than the SoC.

If OS and app versions are exactly the same, there is still a difference, but not a very big one. At least that is what I'm seeing.

Even then though, how do you know it's SoC related? It could also be NAND chip performance (storage), or RAM bandwidth related, or both. Neither of those are part of the SoC. I'm not saying it isn't the SoC. Maybe having those two extra cores helps unload and load apps simultaneously. Could be. At least based on what I know, I just wouldn't be willing to bet on it.

 

[a5cent]

Um, I'm confused with your first statement. Isn't it that if you *don't* swipe close the app, it'll be faster to resume and hence you *won't* see the Resuming screen? Because I am pretty sure I close the Nokia camera app in the background and when I wake it using camera button I still see it for a second or two (and yes, it says Resuming not Loading).

And what about the "App fast resume" thing MS was touting? Did they announce that with 8.1 or 8.0? Shouldn't it have instant loadup times for 8.0 apps even if they're running 8.1?

This is complicated. Unfortunately WP is very inconsistent here, because the OS allows apps to control all of this, when IMHO there should only be a single and consistent OS controlled approach.

Fast app resume works on 8.0, but only if the app supports it. If you close an app, you can't resume it, but some apps will go through a resuming phase even if they are still in memory. An app that shows a resuming message while actually loading would be an error. I can't reproduce this and can't remember seeing it myself (but I also don't pay a lot of attention to that screen so I very well could have missed it). Can you check to make sure?

 

[kevm14]

It could also be NAND chip performance (storage), or RAM bandwidth related, or both. Neither of those are part of the SoC.

Ah. I was using SoC to refer to the greater SoC architecture and supporting chips.

 

[a5cent]

Ah. I was using SoC to refer to the greater SoC architecture and supporting chips.

I was starting to think it might be something like that

 

[KhawarNadeem]

This is complicated. Unfortunately WP is very inconsistent here, because the OS allows apps to control all of this, when IMHO there should only be a single and consistent OS controlled approach.

Fast app resume works on 8.0, but only if the app supports it. If you close an app, you can't resume it, but some apps will go through a resuming phase even if they are still in memory. An app that shows a resuming message while actually loading would be an error. I can't reproduce this and can't remember seeing it myself (but I also don't pay a lot of attention to that screen so I very well could have missed it). Can you check to make sure?

Yes I can confirm that Nokia Camera BETA, swiped away in the multitask carousel, when launched with the camera button, starts with a Resuming screen instead of a Loading one. My guess is that the camera bits are kept in memory to help with a faster startup but if it's so then the slow startup should not even be happening, considering that Microsoft Camera app loads up instantly from any state.

There is a huge inconsistency, you're right. I tested this behaviour out and it is really all over the place. Like the Facebook and Skype apps, even if you close them using the back button, they stay in memory (and hence the carousel screen), but if you launch the app again, Facebook doesn't show a Resuming screen while Skype does. Store and MS Office load up instantly no matter without any Resuming or Loading screens.

Either MS royally botched memory management in recent updates or the developers are missing some specific code. But if it's the latter then that doesn't explain the inconsistency in Microsoft's own apps. I'll never get used to these resuming screens. They always bug me.

 

[niutu]

MixRadio definitely has resuming function: use case scenario - I pin MixRadio on the start screen and start using it for music playback via bluetooth headphones for a while. Now when I return to use the phone again after some period of time, there has most definitely been a "resuming" screen for a bit longer with 920/925/1020 vs. the 830. I used the app a lot and the difference between the aforementioned is very apparent.

(Comment meant for users mjrtoo and KhawarNadeem).

 

[a5cent]

Yes I can confirm that Nokia Camera BETA, swiped away in the multitask carousel, when launched with the camera button, starts with a Resuming screen instead of a Loading one. My guess is that the camera bits are kept in memory to help with a faster startup but if it's so then the slow startup should not even be happening, considering that Microsoft Camera app loads up instantly from any state.

I've tested the behaviour of the Nokia Camera BETA app on my L830 using WP 8.10.14157.200. This is what I see:

After launching the app, it takes ~2s to load, during which I see a black screen with no message at all. If I close the app in the task switcher and restart it (launch from start screen or use the camera button), I get the same behaviour, so I'm not seeing the resuming-message like you are. To me it really looks like it's closed and restarting anew, as expected.

If I don't close the app and switch back to it, the behaviour depends on how I do so:

• return using back button: <1s, no message, camera app is returned to previously used state
• return using task switcher: <1s, no message, camera app is returned to previously used state
• return using start screen tile: ~2s, no message, camera app is returned to the default state (no fast resume, seemingly a complete re-launch)
• return using camera button: ~2s, no message, camera app is returned to the default state (no fast resume, seemingly a complete re-launch)
• return from low power state by turning device on: ~2s, resuming message, camera app is returned to the default state (a complete re-launch)

The resuming message isn't an indication that the app was still in memory. It's just telling you that WP is either re-initializing or re-launching the app, but not which one. Still, I agree that the behaviour you are seeing doesn't quite add up.

TBH, I find the inconsistency in this area worrying. Not only can any app override this behaviour, but the default OS behaviour itself changes depending on the type of WP app (WP8.0 app, WP8.1 Silverlight app, or WP8.1 Windows Runtime app).

Either MS royally botched memory management in recent updates or the developers are missing some specific code.

Not memory management, but app lifecycle management. I don't really understand what is going on with the camera app, but I agree that the inconsistencies themselves already make it feel like MS botched something, or is at least letting developers get away with botching app lifecycle behaviour.

 

[KhawarNadeem]

I've tested the behaviour of the Nokia Camera BETA app on my L830 using WP 8.10.14157.200. This is what I see:

After launching the app, it takes ~2s to load, during which I see a black screen with no message at all. If I close the app in the task switcher and restart it (launch from start screen or use the camera button), I get the same behaviour, so I'm not seeing the resuming-message like you are. To me it really looks like it's closed and restarting anew, as expected.

The resuming message isn't an indication that the app was still in memory. It's just telling you that WP is either re-initializing or re-launching the app, but not which one. Still, I agree that the behaviour you are seeing doesn't quite add up.

TBH, I find the inconsistency in this area worrying. Not only can any app override this behaviour, but the default OS behaviour itself changes depending on the type of WP app (WP8.0 app, WP8.1 Silverlight app, or WP8.1 Windows Runtime app) being used.



Not memory management, but app lifecycle management. I don't really understand what is going on with the camera app, but I agree that just the inconsistencies by themselves already make it feel like MS botched something, or at least is letting developers to get away with botching app lifecycle behaviour.

Interesting. Thank you for the thorough analysis! The behaviour you described in your list is about the same for me, besides the fact that when the app is swiped away, and the screen is turned off, launching the camera app from the button gives the resuming message and the same 'seemingly complete relaunch' you describe. The Skype app is also showing similar behaviour, even though the recent update made some improvements.

Although I had no idea it actually depended on whether it was an 8.0, Silverlight or RT app difference! It's great that Microsoft offers the developers to code using whichever feels the most comfortable, this is a huge oversight. The app's UI simply "appearing" the same in all cases is well and good, but the performance differences are significant as we can see right here.

Thank you, once again, for the insight a5cent!

 

[Rem97]

Store and MS Office load up instantly no matter without any Resuming or Loading screens.

This is because they're apart of the OS, whereas, apps you download from the store aren't.

 

[a5cent]

This is because they're apart of the OS, whereas, apps you download from the store aren't.

I don't think this matters. The apps delivered with the OS are just bundled apps, but nevertheless just apps. There is nothing magical about them. I suspect this has more to do with the fact that many bundled apps are native rather than .net apps (the former can skip .net runtime initialization), which store apps can be, but usually aren't.

Thank you, once again, for the insight a5cent!

And here I thought all I was doing was broadcasting my cluelessness to the world. lol.

Anyway, at least this is absolutely in line with what people have been reporting in this thread, namely that compared to the L920/925, they see the resuming message less frequently on the L830 . At least in this specific Nokia Camera scenario, it's just not clear why (at least not to me).

 

[go1020]

This is an interesting comparison: http://allaboutwindowsphone.com/features/item/20087_How_to_dramatically_speed_up_S.php

 

[Chris_Kez]

Case in point. After reading this thread I switched back to Battery Saver from the multi task panel and sat through 6 seconds of "Resuming...". The video above and the more recent comments about differences in WP8, 8.1, Silverlight, etc. are now discouraging. I'm more tempted than ever to get an Android phone in addition to an 830 and do some head to head comparisons.

 

[realwarder]

This is an interesting comparison: http://allaboutwindowsphone.com/features/item/20087_How_to_dramatically_speed_up_S.php

That is old. Latest Skype is instant on my 920 once recently running.

 

[realwarder]

Those posts about Nokia Camera bring slow... That is why we have Lumia Camera to look forward to. More speed and features.

 

[go1020]

That is old. Latest Skype is instant on my 920 once recently running.

I noticed that too with the latest Skype update, but how long does the app have to sit in multi-tasking view to show "resuming..."? I think it's only a few minutes before it gets relegated to a lower priority. Even WPC app does that. Maybe this is expected behavior but I'm no fan of staring at those dots. I'd rather have a splash screen, I guess.

I'm curious, how do other OS's handle it?

 

[Rem97]

I noticed that too with the latest Skype update, but how long does the app have to sit in multi-tasking view to show "resuming..."? I think it's only a few minutes before it gets relegated to a lower priority. Even WPC app does that. Maybe this is expected behavior but I'm no fan of staring at those dots. I'd rather have a splash screen, I guess.

I'm curious, how do other OS's handle it?

It seems like Skype is now a WinRT 8.1 app, which might be why the performance is better.

Also, on the very rare case that this happens on my iPhone, it shows the splash screen of the app until its been re-loaded from memory.