I Don't Understand the Backlash Against Xbox One and Praise for PS4

[coip]

I don't get the uproar over Xbox One and the hardcore gamer's preference for Sony's strategy of physical disc sharing. On Xbox One, with everything digital, you can lend games to ten friends, digitally and remotely, and you can access your entire game library at a friend's house just by logging in. That is way more convenient.

Online check-ins
I understand this sounds creepy, but everyone already does this with their cell phones. They download a bunch of apps from dozens of different companies and give authorization for those companies to track their location data 24/7. And now they are freaking out about having to 'check-in' for a second on Xbox. It doesn't make sense to me, but it wouldn't surprise me if Microsoft softened it a little bit, but I get why they are doing it: it's good for the developers and if you do what's good for developers, the exclusive games will come.

I just find it amusing that people largely don't fuss about the smartphone stuff and are suddenly all upset about this. It suggests to me they don't really understand what they are already doing, which is scary, and how the Xbox One is better about it. Cell phone users give apps 24/7 access to their location--everywhere they go, everything they do. Xbox One is nowhere near as Orwellian: it's requiring you to check in (which most 360 users already do) from a static location, periodically. On top of that, they're all freaking out about the used/rental games, but these same people have tons of games and apps on their smart phones that are tied to those smart phones: they can't rent them, they can't sell them, they can't lend them. But, with the Xbox One, you can still sell them and you can lend them to up to 10 people.

Restrictions on lending and selling:
Again, people already put up with this whether they are playing games on their PC (mandatory installs, no sharing or re-selling) or on their smartphones and tablets (they buy games, those games are tied to the device, and they cannot sell them or lend them at all). But with the Xbox One strategy, you can lend them: digitally or you can re-sell the disc. Sure, there will be some restrictions, but there has to be or the industry will implode.

DRM in general:
This is the way it's going because piracy was destroying game developers' incentives to make games. Microsoft looks like the bad guy here, but Sony has already said that they are leaving DRM decisions up to the third-party developers on PS4, which means games on PS4 will likely have the same restrictions anyway, except instead of them being standardized, they'll be all over the place which will create confusion

Benefits of digital:
There are also a lot of potential benefits do going completely digital that may leave PS4 behind. Xbox One is embracing the ability to do cloud computing to aid the console, which means that in a few years down the road, while the PS4 is trapped with its current hardware specs, the Xbox One will be getting more powerful.

Kinect vs. Eye:
Including the Kinect explains the higher price tag, but it's the right decision. If you bundle the Kinect, developers have an incentive to develop for it because everyone with an Xbox One has one. Sony, by not bundling the Eye is essentially killing it by limiting it to a side peripheral that only a small minority of PS4 users will have, giving little incentive for developers to innovate with it. Hardcore gamers may not care about voice and movement integration, but I'd rather see how developers can innovate with it

 

[VanillaFrog]

Most gamers just seem to be a bunch of misinformed and mindless swarms of rats.
There is no reasoning, and only time will show them that it won't be that bad and in many ways improve the experience.
Changing discs is the main reason I play the same game most if the time. Haha. No more!

 

[martinmc78]

Most gamers just seem to be a bunch of misinformed and mindless swarms of rats.
There is no reasoning, and only time will show them that it won't be that bad and in many ways improve the experience.
Changing discs is the main reason I play the same game most if the time. Haha. No more!

Will agree with that - just last night I was like "hmm haven't played on BF3 for about 3 months would be nice for a change from halo 4" but then I was like "Damn theres going to be about 30 minutes worth of updates to download - nah halo 4 it is"

 

[AiR DEGETA]

Dude I have been telling my buddies the same exact thing and I agree with you a 1,000%, it's the end of the world like people is making it seem like. And on the other hand you have to realize that some people just love to complain for the sake of complaining. One thing I said dozens of times is that people are on the internet complaining that the Xbox One needs an internet connection. And at the same time those people complaining are gonna be the same ones waiting in line day or run to get one when someone else on their block get one.

And to be honest I don't mind the used games restriction policy on Xbox One cause the developers doesn't see a penny on an used game sell, gamestop gets all the profit on that. Especially since Gamestop would give you a total of $5 for a dozen of games, then turnaround & sell them for $40 each. I think giving the Developer a option of locking their games would persuade them towards Xbox One alittle. But to be fair I never really bought used games to begin with, I just usually wait for a price drop so the restriction doesn't really affect me. & I always have an internet connection.

 

[VanillaFrog]

I just read an article that explained that the new system will create a steam like marketplace. The prices and deals included. I'm all for that. 100%. This was from an ms employee.

 

[martinmc78]

I just read an article that explained that the new system will create a steam like marketplace. The prices and deals included. I'm all for that. 100%. This was from an ms employee.

Take that with a pinch of salt - its from a supposed programmer on the xbox team and hes saying that xbox are moving towards a steam like model - theres no reason why you couldn't get steam like prices and sales but its down to the developers to decide - and nothings been decided yet.

 

[vladi]

Well from US perspective its not a big deal, yes you can even re-log into your friend's XO or you can simply sell your account to somebody else but problem rises when you live in countries in EU and you are regionally locked within borders of a country where you bought XO and created Live account. For some countries that literally means you are locked in radius of 300 miles.

 

[DavidinCT]

What is not to understand here ? Have you read the complants of people ?

DRM is one of those evil bastards that has been created over the years that just make honest users have to feel like a crook to use their own content they paid for the right to use. Look up history on it. I even know a handfull of people who picked up a ton ($100's worth) music from a company with DRM, the company went under, all their music was unplayable with not way to get their music or money back. This has happened to a lot of people, so when DRM comes up, everyone gets upset. Same here, I hate it too as I have issues with it in the past.

Other people like to sell their games or buy used games. Yea, I know the digital market is coming and Steam on the PC has been doing it all along but, Consoles have always been based mainly off Physcial Media. This is what the complaint is about. When someone buys their media, they dont own the content but, they own the phsical media. Today with your 360 or PS3, you can take your game you buy, use it and sell it on ebay or to someone down the road with no problems. Resell to a "retailer" means your $60 game is worth $20 2 weeks later, selling private means getting $40-50 for the game, or a used buyer can buy a month old game for $30 off a private party, not $55 from Gamestop. I buy used games so I agree with this complant, digital downloads is one thing but, phsical media should be treated like it is now. If MS started to give great discounts on new games(like steam does) if you buy on-line, the used game market would almost go away but, the greed of these companies would never do it.

Always online kills a lot of people who are in the middle of no where with no access to high speed internet, yea, less and less people but, a good percentage of the US deals with this problem never mind outside of the US. In my case, weather causes problem with internet in my area, this year so far, I have lost internet at my home for 3-5 days, at least 3 times. So in this window, I would not be able to use my X1 after 24 hours with out internet. There are a lot of younger gamers that parents do not allow any type of internet in their rooms, this pretty much blacklists these people from owning a X1. What actually happens if Xbox live is hacked or down for maintence(Xbox live has been down at least 2-3 times this year when I was on, getting a free month every time) ? Does that mean all my content is worthless becuase I cany play it when these problems come up?

I honestly dont think piracy is a big problem with consoles. Everyone is about playing online with these consoles, and anyone who has been even tempted to hack their 360 or PS3 knows that if you hack it, you wont be able to play online. Infact your xbox 360 will get banned for life if you log on to xbox live with a hacked console same with the PS3. There are still people who do it but, it's not a major problem like it is on PCs...

I honestly do look forward to some of the features but, having MS tell me that I can not play my games when internet is down (locking DRM to the consoles) or allowing me to buy used games from ebay or another source besidses Gamestop, puts too many limits on the system in my eyes as welll as a lot of gamers. That is making Microsoft 100% in control what I can play and when I can play it and to me, that is just wrong.

The PS4 according to Sony, does not have ANY of these limits (yea DRM could be left up the publishers but, after this backlash from the gamers, how much do you actually they will ?), this is why Sony is looking like the golden child here.

Digital or not, consoles are still based off Phyical media.... till it's all digital, then people are still going to have a problem with it.

I can see the problems and agree with most of them, it's not about people just looking for a reason to complain, these are valid reasons. It does not effect everyone but, it does effect a lot of people.

 

[martinmc78]

What is not to understand here ? Have you read the complants of people ?

DRM is one of those evil bastards that has been created over the years that just make honest users have to feel like a crook to use their own content they paid for the right to use. Look up history on it. I even know a handfull of people who picked up a ton ($100's worth) music from a company with DRM, the company went under, all their music was unplayable with not way to get their music or money back.

That's a worrying thought - What happens if a game studio goes under 6 months after a release?

 

[CoopII]

since Gamestop would give you a total of $5 for a dozen of games, then turnaround & sell them for $40 each. I think giving the Developer a option of locking their games would persuade them towards Xbox One a little.

I hear you on this and agree. Gamestop reaped huge profits from used games. Consumer got like $5-$10 for a game they turned around and sold for $40 - $50. Which one of us wouldn't like those profit margins? Now Gamestop will still give us $5 - $10 for a game and still sell it for $40 - $50 but now will pay back to Developer a fee of say $10 - $20. In the grand scheme of things doesn't effect us at all just takes the huge profit Gamestop makes and gives some back to the creators of the game.

All this with a 24 hour check in that means I can install the game and have it updated on the fly and have all my games ready to play whenever I want to play them without putting in the disk? I mean sign me up... Oh I already did... pre order made. I like what they are doing I see the big picture of where they seem to be going and it won't be easy and I am sure some huge bumps along the way but I am along for the ride.

My final thought is I hear more and more people saying what is "wrong" with the Xbox and by default lets go PS4 if the PS4 is so great shouldn't they be talking up about all the great things the PS4 does and how it does it. No it seems more a Bash Xbox for the few features they don't fully understand and that makes the PS4 the only choice. Get which ever system makes you happy and which ever one gives you the options and games you want to play. For me that is what I feel the Xbox does. Gives me the game and options I want and the way I want to play them.

CoopII

 

[ncxcstud]

Will agree with that - just last night I was like "hmm haven't played on BF3 for about 3 months would be nice for a change from halo 4" but then I was like "Damn theres going to be about 30 minutes worth of updates to download - nah halo 4 it is"

and to think, with the XBOX One, that will be a thing of the past since its always connected all your games will always be updated

 

[CoopII]

That's a worrying thought - What happens if a game studio goes under 6 months after a release?

Happens all the time on App store with Apple buy a program you use and love company goes under stops supporting it whatever the case and you can never DL that app again once removed from the store.

I would hope that in that case it's Microsoft that holds the DRM lic and can open it in the case a company goes under. Because as I see it if the Company doesn't support a game then it should not be bound by a DRM.

CoopII

 

[ncxcstud]

That's a worrying thought - What happens if a game studio goes under 6 months after a release?

If I understand it correctly, the massive amount of servers that MS is implementing is there to cover that. MS is the backbone, not the individual developer.

 

[Keith Wallace]

I understand this sounds creepy, but everyone already does this with their cell phones. They download a bunch of apps from dozens of different companies and give authorization for those companies to track their location data 24/7. And now they are freaking out about having to 'check-in' for a second on Xbox. It doesn't make sense to me, but it wouldn't surprise me if Microsoft softened it a little bit, but I get why they are doing it: it's good for the developers and if you do what's good for developers, the exclusive games will come.

I don't allow companies to track me 100% of the time, or promise them tracking every 24 hours. I give them permission to access my location services, WHEN THEY ARE ACTIVE. I can shut off my cellular data and my WiFi and still play my games as much as I want on my 920.

 

[Keith Wallace]

DRM is one of those evil bastards that has been created over the years that just make honest users have to feel like a crook to use their own content they paid for the right to use. Look up history on it. I even know a handfull of people who picked up a ton ($100's worth) music from a company with DRM, the company went under, all their music was unplayable with not way to get their music or money back. This has happened to a lot of people, so when DRM comes up, everyone gets upset. Same here, I hate it too as I have issues with it in the past.

Yeah, DRM's led to some headaches, no question. That I can't put a video I purchase on my PC and watch it is annoying. That I can't sync videos I buy on DVD to my Windows Phone and watch them (like I do with my music) sucks. That I can't create a digital backup of a movie or TV series in case the disc is lost or damaged sucks. The DRM on movie and TV show discs is literally so bad that they make it more appealing to risk a fine to illegally download things. The movie industry really needs to take a look at Steam, because they do the opposite. They make things so financially appealing that the DRM is worth the trouble, especially because it's not hugely restrictive like movie-based DRM is.

I don't think we'll see that level of head-exploding DRM on the Xbox One, though. It'll be mostly unassuming for casual users, I'm hoping.

 

[DavidinCT]

I don't think we'll see that level of head-exploding DRM on the Xbox One, though. It'll be mostly unassuming for casual users, I'm hoping.

One can really hope here. I have been a Windows systems adminstrator from NT Server 3.51. Over the years when MS's securty is pretty good over all but, when it breaks or is hacked it's a nightmare. Servers tend to effect one location based on their needs as long as the hole is pached up very quickly it can be resolved quicly but, if MS screws up even one line of code in the new X1 DRM anywhere, it could possably lead to a gobal problem.

I really dont like to depend on Microsoft 100% when I want to play a game on my system. I do have a major issue with that (knowing a good handle on what they X1 will do, 3 OSs in the X1 and all). I would like some backup plan so if MS is down, or even my ISP is down, I could at least put in the disc, IF it was installed on that machine with that disc to play the single player game. Putting a little assurance that I could use my system and not have to depend on my ISP being 100% or Xbox live being 100% available all the time.

The 24 hour check in, is not about updating games, it's about DRM pure and simple. This is what I have an issue with and I know 100% I am not the only one.

I hear you on this and agree. Gamestop reaped huge profits from used games. Consumer got like $5-$10 for a game they turned around and sold for $40 - $50. Which one of us wouldn't like those profit margins? Now Gamestop will still give us $5 - $10 for a game and still sell it for $40 - $50 but now will pay back to Developer a fee of say $10 - $20. In the grand scheme of things doesn't effect us at all just takes the huge profit Gamestop makes and gives some back to the creators of the game.

Microsoft publicly said that there will be no fee to retailers for this. Not sure on the "fine print" on this. Personally, I would prefer to sell my game on ebay or other locations, as that game that Gamestop will give you $5-10 for, I can get $30-50 on the used market. Also I can buy a 1 month old used game for $30-45 and not have to pay $55 for a used game that Gamestop will charge.. Trust me, I would be ok with pulling some of that crazy profit from Gamestop(and ripping off their customers) and others but, if they dont, what is the point ?

If the retailer can "remove a game from your account for resale" for no cost, why can't I do it ?

 

[ncxcstud]

Piracy is a huge problem in countries that aren't the US. I've been to Mexico as part of my seminary studies for 2.5 weeks, I couldn't believe the amount of rampant piracy. I lived in Italy for four years, same thing. Piracy is a big(ger) issue outside the US.

 

[CoopII]

Microsoft publicly said that there will be no fee to retailers for this. Not sure on the "fine print" on this. Personally, I would prefer to sell my game on ebay or other locations, as that game that Gamestop will give you $5-10 for, I can get $30-50 on the used market. Also I can buy a 1 month old used game for $30-45 and not have to pay $55 for a used game that Gamestop will charge.. Trust me, I would be ok with pulling some of that crazy profit from Gamestop(and ripping off their customers) and others but, if they dont, what is the point ?

I think they have said developer or publisher dependant on what your allowed to do with the game. Will be in the fine print I am sure about transfer of software or Lic so you will know up front before you buy a game. I can see why they are taking out of the hands of say you and me. Lets say my friend borrows my game calls up MS saying he owns the game now be it by phone or an online form to transfer the lic. But he doesn't I still do he just borrowed it maybe I don't even know he has it etc etc. Guess what that is all for MS support to sort out who owns what why was it transferred. Even if I sell said disk on Ebay and guy can't get logged into it MS says sorry game still belongs to other guy... But I have the disk? Well he has the lic so sorry. Seems like a mess waiting to happen. I don't sell or trade games ever I still have a large Sega Master System collection so I am not sure I only go by what friends tell me on selling used games. Not many use Ebay most trade in to stores or a few sell them on Kijii or however you spell that. I guess for me I can't see how they can track that a game has left your system and can be transferred to someone else? A key code is a good idea but man I hate putting those in but would be willing to for diskless use and make others happy that they can trade those system. But like other DRM systems that code can be cracked and pirate that game using a key gen.

Any thought how you would tackle a DRM system that allows diskless play and stops piracy? I think the check in is fine if my internet goes down and I just have to play I could always check in with my 920 internet hotspot feature. If both of those are down then I have bigger issues that maybe playing games shouldn't be high on my list.

If people in general were more honest and not always looking for an exploit or how to get something they didn't pay for maybe the rest of us wouldn't have such a tough time with this stuff. I wonder did the honor system ever work?

CoopII

 

[michfan]

I can handle most of what MS is doing, but am firmly in the camp that hates the 24hr check-in aspect of the DRM.

MS has made a monumental PR error -- they have failed to consistently and repetitively explain to customers a clear vision of the Xbox One experience. This has resulted in people debating features and policies, rather than understanding the new paradigm for gaming being created and how these features and policies are necessary to enable it. Now MS is essentially saying once you have the console you'll understand. Not a very compelling sales pitch.

 

[Oxymoron428]

I definitely understand the complaints. And yes, being a smartphone and Steam user, I realize that I can't share the games and apps I buy.

But the price matters too. I don't mind being unable to share a $2 app or a $7 PC game. But for $60, I better at least be able to let my buddies play the game after I'm done with it. Think about it this way: you might let your buddy borrow your videgame controller, but would you let them borrow your car just as easily? Price matters.

Also, the check in isn't so much the problem; its the penalty for now doing it. Yes, put a hold on my account if I sign on through a hacked system. But don't do it just because I didn't let you know where I was for a day or two.

There's no app that'll brick your phone if you don't show it your location...