Is Andromeda happening or being cancelled?

[Vishvjeet Arya]

Recently we've been reading a lot about Andromeda the revolutionary concept from Microsoft but I am skeptical about it being seeing the light of day because I personally thing Microsoft lack the focus it need to make this device a success. But my question is "Is this new concept really worth giving a try and why there is a need for this form factor?" What are your thoughts about Andromeda?

 

[Ryujingt3]

MS shook up the computer industry when they launched the Surface. It was the first time MS had the foresight to do what Apple always does and find a new hardware niche market for a new device that nobody even thought they needed. However, with MS's mobile history, any mobile purported device will be automatically tainted by W10M and MS's failures. Nobody knows yet if they need this form factor because they haven't seen it. It would be nice to see what MS comes up with Andromeda but most likely it may never happen.

 

[Iain_S]

Samsung seems to be set to release its foldable display device early 2019, but would imagine it will be running android. I think Microsoft will have a hard time getting people on board if they release this type of device too late.

 

[Drael646464]

Samsung seems to be set to release its foldable display device early 2019, but would imagine it will be running android. I think Microsoft will have a hard time getting people on board if they release this type of device too late.

I wouldn't be certain that Samsung won't also release a windows device. Samsung and Microsoft get on pretty well, and Samsung has been quite open about it's discomfort with being reliant on google.

With MSFTs work on windows core, and windows on arm, this makes a two OS release of the same hardware fairly viable, at least once MSFT releases andromeda.

Would it be better for MSFT if they released first? Yes, absolutely. But it also needs to be a polished product, with some inhouse development for the ecosystem. Being released around the same time, if it has to be, wouldn't be such a bad outcome as they would share spotlight (articles would mention both, as a comparison).

 

[Drael646464]

Recently we've been reading a lot about Andromeda the revolutionary concept from Microsoft but I am skeptical about it being seeing the light of day because I personally thing Microsoft lack the focus it need to make this device a success. But my question is "Is this new concept really worth giving a try and why there is a need for this form factor?" What are your thoughts about Andromeda?

There was no need for a smartphone before the iPhone came out.

The space andromeda is intended to fill is a 3 in 1 role, and a notetaking/sketching role. So like a physical notepad, but also like a phone, tablet, and laptop. For people who are very mobile, I can see the need for a portable computer than you can also use without docking. And for notetakers I can see a need for something with better input than a touch screen for simple sketches and taking notes in meetings and classes.

Indeed eventually when graphene is cheap, I can see folding screens replacing all current form factors. But to begin with, when the devices have a screen seam, it's more for particular people - I think to begin with, given price, largely enterprise.

 

[Ryujingt3]

Maybe related but when Nintendo first released the DS console, everyone laughed and said it didn't need to have two screens. Look how that turned out (i.e the 3DS now outsells Xbox and PS4). But this is probably a bad example. The 3DS succeeds because of the software. This is where MS and Andromeda will most likely fail. Samsung's folding device will succeed because it has apps that users use, know and are familiar with. Andromeda will just have Windows 10 (or whatever variant) and as soon as Joe Consumer realises it won't run Snapchat or whatever Android game they are currently playing, they will stick to their smartphone (or go for Samsung's foldable device, running Android).

 

[Drael646464]

Maybe related but when Nintendo first released the DS console, everyone laughed and said it didn't need to have two screens. Look how that turned out (i.e the 3DS now outsells Xbox and PS4). But this is probably a bad example. The 3DS succeeds because of the software. This is where MS and Andromeda will most likely fail. Samsung's folding device will succeed because it has apps that users use, know and are familiar with. Andromeda will just have Windows 10 (or whatever variant) and as soon as Joe Consumer realises it won't run Snapchat or whatever Android game they are currently playing, they will stick to their smartphone (or go for Samsung's foldable device, running Android).

From what I've seen of dual screen devices already released, most android users find the idea even more ridiculous than windows users. I can kind of see their point - with a seem in the way, it's not like one big screen, the only real use in it is specialised (multi-taking, note-taking, using the second screen as a keyboard). If Samsung had any success in this early proto-stage as we walk towards the graphene screen, it'd be just as niche and limited as it will be for MSFT - at least MSFT has on therir side that the type of user who might fork out for a 2-3k niche productivity device, will also want to use office, rather than snapchat.

In this I personally think it's the perfect timing for MSFT to invest hard in developing andromeda. With the certain long term future of foldables, this very early point is where they could get an "amazon and iot" type of lead that they desperately need in the mobile field.

And I do think they should invest in software. But more like office, skype, WhatsApp, adobe partnerships, network apps for site admins and the like. If they could just kill it, on the early adopter market, and do the same with HoloLens, there could be a bright consumer future for them. This, IMO, is literally the bridge to the one OS, hybrid, cross platform future that they have been preaching for years.

All they need to do is make these two devices, and make them as attractive to early adopters as humanly possible. If they do that, they'll have a lead in two major consumer future markets, and then all they have to do is not lose ground, and try and stay competitive.

I'm still expecting google to drop android before "z" too. So I wonder what developers are going to do when they start to move to chrome or fuschia on mobile. I feel like the whole market has come to expect technology to stand still again. Like we are back in the 90s with IBM, or singing the praises of CDs.

 

[Ryujingt3]

From what I've seen of dual screen devices already released, most android users find the idea even more ridiculous than windows users. I can kind of see their point - with a seem in the way, it's not like one big screen, the only real use in it is specialised (multi-taking, note-taking, using the second screen as a keyboard). If Samsung had any success in this early proto-stage as we walk towards the graphene screen, it'd be just as niche and limited as it will be for MSFT - at least MSFT has on therir side that the type of user who might fork out for a 2-3k niche productivity device, will also want to use office, rather than snapchat.

In this I personally think it's the perfect timing for MSFT to invest hard in developing andromeda. With the certain long term future of foldables, this very early point is where they could get an "amazon and iot" type of lead that they desperately need in the mobile field.

And I do think they should invest in software. But more like office, skype, WhatsApp, adobe partnerships, network apps for site admins and the like. If they could just kill it, on the early adopter market, and do the same with HoloLens, there could be a bright consumer future for them. This, IMO, is literally the bridge to the one OS, hybrid, cross platform future that they have been preaching for years.

All they need to do is make these two devices, and make them as attractive to early adopters as humanly possible. If they do that, they'll have a lead in two major consumer future markets, and then all they have to do is not lose ground, and try and stay competitive.

I'm still expecting google to drop android before "z" too. So I wonder what developers are going to do when they start to move to chrome or fuschia on mobile. I feel like the whole market has come to expect technology to stand still again. Like we are back in the 90s with IBM, or singing the praises of CDs.

Hopefully MS can at least release something and then build on it. Like they did with the Surface brand.

 

[tgp]

I'm still expecting google to drop android before "z" too.

Probably, but current Android users won't be hung out to dry. There would likely be a relatively seamless transition into Fuschia OS or Chrome OS or whatever succeeds Android. Chrome OS as it is today could already replace Android quite well.

Saying that Android is going away is like saying that Windows 7 is going away. It's true, but there is, or will be, a path forward.

 

[Drael646464]

Probably, but current Android users won't be hung out to dry. There would likely be a relatively seamless transition into Fuschia OS or Chrome OS or whatever succeeds Android. Chrome OS as it is today could already replace Android quite well.

Saying that Android is going away is like saying that Windows 7 is going away. It's true, but there is, or will be, a path forward.

Of course they will make some kind of transition. And both chrome and fushia run android apps. But it's unclear how slow that would need to be - they completely dominant mobile market share. It could in theory be as rapid as the shift to win32, or as slow as UWP.

Once they introduce the new system, they will want users and developers to be moved over as quickly as is viable without losing share. And that will mean that one day, android apps will be phased out like Silverlight, or dos apps.

I brought that up in the context less as a 'nah nah nah nahh nah android users', and more as a - in terms of tablets especially and more feature rich, larger screen experiences, I don't think google wants to stick with android. I think they have other plans. Chrome is starting to look quite likely. And that in mind, any Samsung or similar device will, long term, need a chrome or fushia app ecosystem, not an android one.

I just think the idea of an android foldable carving out a lasting marketshare isn't too realistic - android is shrinking in tablet share more than any other major platform, google is working on Linux emulation for chrome, and has recently supported hybrids running chrome, and also google is fixing its own pixel devices to run windows by the rumours, suggesting google wants chromeOS to share hardware platforms with windows on arm - all of which points heavily away from android on larger devices (not to mention the productivity market for dual screen devices and standard users don't overlap in interests as much). A dual screen android device would not just be awkward in terms of its current market fit(with seams, a dual screen isn't ideal for watching youtube videos, and the price point is prohibitive), but in terms of its future.

I'm keen to see where google goes, and I am glad to see they share some vision with MSFT on the future of computing being more hybridized. Chrome (or fuschia) as it runs Linux in the future, will be like windows - straddling several ecosystems in a bid to create a cross platform experience long term, mobile meets desktop - it'll have some of the same hurdles, and have much of the same potential. In general, I applaud google for this. But it does mean that people probably ought to stop thinking the future is homogenous with the present, technologically speaking.

 

[Ryujingt3]

It'll be interesting if Google actually do change their Pixel Chromebook line to support Windows. It's kind of a slap in the face seeing as Google never supported MS's devices.

 

[Drael646464]

It'll be interesting if Google actually do change their Pixel Chromebook line to support Windows. It's kind of a slap in the face seeing as Google never supported MS's devices.

I think it makes perfect sense for google. If they make chromeOS hardware and software _in general_ compatible with windows, then they can get OEMs producing a Chrome version of every windows on arm device. They are the underdog in laptops, and in tablets (chrome specifically, but even android), so there's reason to play friendly and supplicating like they have with apple, rather than aggressive.

I think if they do that, they'll have to release google apps on windows. Because if they don't the strategy could lead to lose service users, if the people choose windows, or install windows on their chrome device. You can't play friendly and aggressive in the exact same sandpit.

That's made easier by the fact they are writing PWAs for every google app.

They'd literally just need to say "okay Microsoft, you can have these aren't we nice". They'd probably say it at the same time as they asked "please Microsoft can we haz windowz?", and make it seem like it was a peace offering instead of a means of preventing user leak and competing for the same userbase.

Of course MSFT would probably guess this and go with it anyway, because they want to compete for google users too.

 

[aximtreo]

YES

CMA answer because I nor anyone I know has the answer. If MS and Samsung have a courtship going on, why in the hell did MS kill WP 10? A ready made hardware manufacturer that is looking to diversify from Android and development stops on WP 10

 

[Drael646464]

YES

CMA answer because I nor anyone I know has the answer. If MS and Samsung have a courtship going on, why in the hell did MS kill WP 10? A ready made hardware manufacturer that is looking to diversify from Android and development stops on WP 10

Well I can speculate. Samsung has done windows devices both early windows devices in the windows phone 8 days, and also windows 10 devices in recent days - as well as the obvious past development relationship with graphene screens, and also microsofts active work on DEX. So they are undoubtably friendly. If you put all this public cooperation together, it's closer than most major tech companies get.

However Samsung stopped making windows phones after a certain year, probably for pure profitability reasons based on their own sales of windows phones (which were initially good enough, and then not so much). So whilst they are friendly and Samsung definately wants to get out from googles thumb, there are pragmatic decisions and profit based decisions to be made.

It's also noteworthy that seperate distribitions and versions of windows have not been the stated goal of Microsoft since windows 10 - they have been quite open in saying they want a single platform, with a single underlying code, that runs cross platform - a one unified OS. That OS is windows core. It's not even current windows 10, which only has the rudimentary beginings of a shared code inside of it.

Each "component" of this unified windows will IMO be like a puzzle peice. Once they have released the andromeda version, the polaris version, the hub version, the xbox verion we will start to see something that can be assembled together and run on any of them. When all of them are completed, or as they are individually released, they will be combined into a single flexible OS that can do it all (at minimum modularly, as an install option, so that you can have the desktop UI/OS run on your xbox, HoloLens, phone or whatever, should you want it)

With this in mind Windows 10 mobile was always going to be put out the pasture. It just happened to be put out earlier than windows 10 on desktop, because it's less popular. But there was never going to be a "windows 10 mobile" in their future plan anyway only a "windows".

 

[Ryujingt3]

Well I can speculate. Samsung has done windows devices both early windows devices in the windows phone 8 days, and also windows 10 devices in recent days - as well as the obvious past development relationship with graphene screens, and also microsofts active work on DEX. So they are undoubtably friendly. If you put all this public cooperation together, it's closer than most major tech companies get.

However Samsung stopped making windows phones after a certain year, probably for pure profitability reasons based on their own sales of windows phones (which were initially good enough, and then not so much). So whilst they are friendly and Samsung definately wants to get out from googles thumb, there are pragmatic decisions and profit based decisions to be made.

It's also noteworthy that seperate distribitions and versions of windows have not been the stated goal of Microsoft since windows 10 - they have been quite open in saying they want a single platform, with a single underlying code, that runs cross platform - a one unified OS. That OS is windows core. It's not even current windows 10, which only has the rudimentary beginings of a shared code inside of it.

Each "component" of this unified windows will IMO be like a puzzle peice. Once they have released the andromeda version, the polaris version, the hub version, the xbox verion we will start to see something that can be assembled together and run on any of them. When all of them are completed, or as they are individually released, they will be combined into a single flexible OS that can do it all (at minimum modularly, as an install option, so that you can have the desktop UI/OS run on your xbox, HoloLens, phone or whatever, should you want it)

With this in mind Windows 10 mobile was always going to be put out the pasture. It just happened to be put out earlier than windows 10 on desktop, because it's less popular. But there was never going to be a "windows 10 mobile" in their future plan anyway only a "windows".

Why do you think MS will put Windows 10 desktop out to pasture? What would they replace it with?

 

[Drael646464]

Why do you think MS will put Windows 10 desktop out to pasture? What would they replace it with?

A single OS for all devices. A unified OS that will adapt to context. Rather than Xbox, HoloLens, mobile, iot, desktop etc. That's been the plan for years. Each version of 'windows core' will be like a puzzle piece. "Polaris' is the desktop component

 

[Ryujingt3]

A single OS for all devices. A unified OS that will adapt to context. Rather than Xbox, HoloLens, mobile, iot, desktop etc. That's been the plan for years. Each version of 'windows core' will be like a puzzle piece. "Polaris' is the desktop component

That would work well, if MS can actually pull it off. It's interesting that the Note 9 now doesn't require a dock for DeX to work. Oh, what could have been with Continuum if MS had stayed the course with W10M. As it stands, whatever Andromeda is and whenever it is released, hopefully MS can avoid their past mistakes.

 

[Drael646464]

That would work well, if MS can actually pull it off. It's interesting that the Note 9 now doesn't require a dock for DeX to work. Oh, what could have been with Continuum if MS had stayed the course with W10M. As it stands, whatever Andromeda is and whenever it is released, hopefully MS can avoid their past mistakes.

We should know soon enough. Andromeda and Hub 2 are the first peices of windows core. Polaris shouldn't be too far after. So we should see the rough outline of this thing after all this time.

Indeed the shared windows core code, was what MSFT was diverting it's effort to when it put windows mobile on the seperate release track. It's been quite the work in progress.

But I think we'll see the first glimpses of this future 2019/2020.

 

[Ryujingt3]

We should know soon enough. Andromeda and Hub 2 are the first peices of windows core. Polaris shouldn't be too far after. So we should see the rough outline of this thing after all this time.

Indeed the shared windows core code, was what MSFT was diverting it's effort to when it put windows mobile on the seperate release track. It's been quite the work in progress.

But I think we'll see the first glimpses of this future 2019/2020.

Hopefully you are right though and MS can get their act together soon enough.