Is Continuum the way MS will gain mobile market space?

[Jcmg62]

I've been using Continuum for a couple of months now. It's OK. Far from good and many updates away from great, but definitely on the right track. I'm pretty confident that Microsoft are serious about Continuum's future and it'll keep getting better with regular updates.

What I have been thinking about is how Microsoft could leverage Continuum to build a viable mobile market for themselves.

If I were in Acer or HP's shoes right now, there's no way I'd be launching a W10M phone as a standalone device. Samsung tried that. HTC tried that. Nokia tried that. Nothing worked.

However, if you launch your W10M device in a box that comes with a Continuum dock, 12" (or bigger) screen, keyboard and mouse as standard then suddenly you're not just trying to sell a phone. You're selling a complete portable computing experience.

Taking it to the next level, maybe the rumoured Surface Phone will come with Continuum already built in. No more dock to have to set up....everything runs wirelessly from the phone.

Imagine getting all of this as standard in your next W10M phone box in 2017:

1. A 64bit Surface Phone capable of running full windows programmes (full on 128GB built in memory, 6-8GB ram, SD card supported, 20Mpeg rear camera, 5Mpeg front camera, rocking front speakers, aluminium chassis, crazy clear 5.5" screen)

2. A wireless 12" screen with massive (but light) built in battery, front facing camera and awesome speakers. Maybe a similar design and specification to the Surface, but just a dumb screen until it sniffs out the continuum phone. Take it a little further, maybe there'd be a feature where you could plug your phone into the screen to piggyback power if your phone is running low on juice.

3. A premium, fold up wireless keyboard (or similar to Surface keyboard) and cool, super light ergonomic mouse.

In 2017 when you walk into your phone store for a W10M phone, you walk out with a full mobile/laptop portable computing solution.

Now that would make a cool unboxing video

 

[Cruachan 11]

Point 3 already exists.
Display Dock Accessories Standard Bundle - Microsoft Store United Kingdom Online Store

 

[btbam91]

I don't think MSFT will ever gain mobile market space, and even they know that. That's why they develop for iOS and Android first.

 

[cracgor]

I've been using Continuum for a couple of months now. It's OK. Far from good and many updates away from great, but definitely on the right track. I'm pretty confident that Microsoft are serious about Continuum's future and it'll keep getting better with regular updates.

What I have been thinking about is how Microsoft could leverage Continuum to build a viable mobile market for themselves.

If I were in Acer or HP's shoes right now, there's no way I'd be launching a W10M phone as a standalone device. Samsung tried that. HTC tried that. Nokia tried that. Nothing worked.

However, if you launch your W10M device in a box that comes with a Continuum dock, 12" (or bigger) screen, keyboard and mouse as standard then suddenly you're not just trying to sell a phone. You're selling a complete portable computing experience.

Taking it to the next level, maybe the rumoured Surface Phone will come with Continuum already built in. No more dock to have to set up....everything runs wirelessly from the phone.

Imagine getting all of this as standard in your next W10M phone box in 2017:

1. A 64bit Surface Phone capable of running full windows programmes (full on 128GB built in memory, 6-8GB ram, SD card supported, 20Mpeg rear camera, 5Mpeg front camera, rocking front speakers, aluminium chassis, crazy clear 5.5" screen)

2. A wireless 12" screen with massive (but light) built in battery, front facing camera and awesome speakers. Maybe a similar design and specification to the Surface, but just a dumb screen until it sniffs out the continuum phone. Take it a little further, maybe there'd be a feature where you could plug your phone into the screen to piggyback power if your phone is running low on juice.

3. A premium, fold up wireless keyboard (or similar to Surface keyboard) and cool, super light ergonomic mouse.

In 2017 when you walk into your phone store for a W10M phone, you walk out with a full mobile/laptop portable computing solution.

Now that would make a cool unboxing video

Is what you are describing like the Asus PadFone? A phone that can be used to power a tablet or computer? The real problem is you have everything you need for a computer but can't use the tablet/computer/keyboard/etc independent of the phone. So like right now I'm typing on my Surface, but could use my phone to take calls. Also, if I forget my phone, I can still use my surface (or the opposite scenario).

The real problem I see with Continuum as a mobile platform is that I have to carry a display dock, keyboard, mouse, power supply around with me...or I could get a laptop to suit my needs. The real thing that will make Continuum useful has to be better wireless capabilities. That way I could just get it to work with my smart tv without all the lag miracast provides.

 

[Johnny Tremaine]

I don't think MSFT will ever gain mobile market space, and even they know that. That's why they develop for iOS and Android first.

Microsoft has other successful business, like Office and Azure and server software, so they'll be more than fine (they can cry into their $100 bills at low Lumia sales) but yeah the mobile ship has sailed for them. It's dead, and proclaiming otherwise is just wasting your time. You can enjoy your ill supported device, that's fine, but let's not play games and pretend that it's thriving.

 

[btbam91]

Microsoft has other successful business, like Office and Azure and server software, so they'll be more than fine (they can cry into their $100 bills at low Lumia sales) but yeah the mobile ship has sailed for them. It's dead, and proclaiming otherwise is just wasting your time. You can enjoy your ill supported device, that's fine, but let's not play games and pretend that it's thriving.

Yep. It sucks. I was WP's biggest fan too. Focus S > Lumia 900 > Lumia 920 > Lumia 1520

 

[EspHack]

I hope not, continuum is just an overlapping feature for most people, if they want some 2 in 1 action the only thing worth a damn would be watch-phone, another thing that replaces your desk is just that, more of the same

so I hope next year we get "the watch that can replace your phone" or something

 

[Jcmg62]

This is weird timing, but I've just found this article. https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/win...windows-phone-continuum-starts-shipping-today

It looks like the bundled option is the plan after all.

I get that we all keep saying windows phone is dead, ship has sailed, will never gain market share, etc but surely manufacturers like Acer must be convinced there's a place in the market for them, or they wouldn't be spending big money making a product that's dead on arrival

 

[hasasimo]

Before every single seismic shift in the mobile space, the ship had "sailed" for the competition. Will Microsoft ever be a true mobile player? Who knows, but it's silly to believe the current mobile market distribution is permanent.

 

[Jcmg62]

Before every single seismic shift in the mobile space, the ship had "sailed" for the competition. Will Microsoft ever be a true mobile player? Who knows, but it's silly to believe the current mobile market distribution is permanent.

I agree. The current phone market won't look this way forever. 10 years ago Volkswagen and Ford would have laughed at Elon Musk and his Tesla ambitions...I'm pretty sure they're not laughing now.

Apple and Samsung are under huge pressure to innovate just to hold ground in the market.

Microsoft could find mobile space with continuum, particularly in the enterprise market, where apps aren't as big a problem.

 

[hasasimo]

I agree. The current phone market won't look this way forever. 10 years ago Volkswagen and Ford would have laughed at Elon Musk and his Tesla ambitions...I'm pretty sure they're not laughing now.

Apple and Samsung are under huge pressure to innovate just to hold ground in the market.

Microsoft could find mobile space with continuum, particularly in the enterprise market, where apps aren't as big a problem.

Though Continuum may be a significant part of the future of computing, I think MS may be relying more on Universal Apps to close the gap a bit, leveraging their marketshare in the tablet/pc space.

And even if that doesn't work... I think MS would try having Android apps work on its platform, or continue working with Cyanogen as a backup before they ever give up on mobile.

 

[Jcmg62]

Though Continuum may be a significant part of the future of computing, I think MS may be relying more on Universal Apps to close the gap a bit, leveraging their marketshare in the tablet/pc space.

And even if that doesn't work... I think MS would try having Android apps work on its platform, or continue working with Cyanogen as a backup before they ever give up on mobile.

I honestly can't see how Microsoft could ever afford to give up on mobile. The traditional PC market is never going to go back to it's 1990's / 2000's growth and virtual reality is still a few years away from becoming mainstream, which kinda leaves mobile as the middle ground for tech firms to focus on.

I guess the big push for Microsoft should be to try and get the likes of HTC, Sony, LG and other Android focussed OEM's to work with a continuum/W10M product. Those guys are really feeling the pinch right now. The mobile market is basically just Apple and Samsung, leaving all the other Tech firms eating the scraps from the table and needing a credible alternative to push their hardware ambitions.

 

[Krystianpants]

MS has always had some of the best R&D in the world, but it never really made it out to consumers. Satya wants to change that, the hololens is proof of that. Sure you hear about magic leap, but is it at any stage where it can be used? No. It's all just talk while MS actually has devices in developers hands.

My guess is that they will release something great in spring 2017 and it will create a storm. If you are putting you're entire phone business to rest and don't seem to be phased by the fact that it's dropping quickly, you must have something really interesting in development. Will the current state of continuum change things for ms? No. But with OEMs releasing continuum devices with the anniversary update, it will start a trend of "awareness". This is a good start to create a new category. This category will then gain some recognition while the true stuff is in development. Most OEMs that are selling these know that they will not be making a big profit on it. They just want to get into the market early for when it starts paying off. Think about the original surface line. While it had ambition, it generally was a flop. All it did is raise awareness while MS evolved the technology. It took MS a while to get where they are today as they went through different iterations. This is not a bad thing though because the surface line was a huge learning experience for them. This time around they know exactly what they want to do but need time to do it. And of course as tech progresses things will constantly get better. But I think that having more consumer options for computing devices is a great idea. OEMs also have a newer market for producing dumb terminals that simply connect to your 1 device. MS can work with manufacturers of TV's and other hardware to enable continuum support right into these devices. There could be quite an interesting future ahead of us.

 

[priorplace]

For the business market, continuum will help, it will be especially attractive for those businesses who are willing to offer their braver, more mobile staff, a life without laptops.

For the consumer market, no. Aside from making enthusiasts happy, I don't think it will make Windows mobile devices any more attractive than they currently are. However, Surface and Windows 10 will probably be the things to watch here IMO. Surface is doing well (for an MS product), and that might mean more UWP apps, and eventually a better Store. Just maybe after enough time, MS will start pushing Windows mobile devices again, perhaps with the release of a shiny Surface Phone.

 

[cracgor]

MS has always had some of the best R&D in the world, but it never really made it out to consumers. Satya wants to change that, the hololens is proof of that. Sure you hear about magic leap, but is it at any stage where it can be used? No. It's all just talk while MS actually has devices in developers hands.

My guess is that they will release something great in spring 2017 and it will create a storm. If you are putting you're entire phone business to rest and don't seem to be phased by the fact that it's dropping quickly, you must have something really interesting in development. Will the current state of continuum change things for ms? No. But with OEMs releasing continuum devices with the anniversary update, it will start a trend of "awareness". This is a good start to create a new category. This category will then gain some recognition while the true stuff is in development. Most OEMs that are selling these know that they will not be making a big profit on it. They just want to get into the market early for when it starts paying off. Think about the original surface line. While it had ambition, it generally was a flop. All it did is raise awareness while MS evolved the technology. It took MS a while to get where they are today as they went through different iterations. This is not a bad thing though because the surface line was a huge learning experience for them. This time around they know exactly what they want to do but need time to do it. And of course as tech progresses things will constantly get better. But I think that having more consumer options for computing devices is a great idea. OEMs also have a newer market for producing dumb terminals that simply connect to your 1 device. MS can work with manufacturers of TV's and other hardware to enable continuum support right into these devices. There could be quite an interesting future ahead of us.

The problem with the Surface analogy is Windows Mobile predates Windows 8 and the Surface by years. I was an early adopter of the Surface and I can still use my Surface Pro alongside my Surface Pro 3 without a huge difference other than improved form factor and a worse pen (IMHO--since it won't work with my Cintiq and the legacy drivers conflict with Wacom's).

With Windows Mobile, you have an operating system that has been evolving since before the iPhone existed. Sure they are starting over with WM10, but I personally think it is unfair to act like Microsoft is the new kid to mobile aspirations.

 

[Krystianpants]

The problem with the Surface analogy is Windows Mobile predates Windows 8 and the Surface by years. I was an early adopter of the Surface and I can still use my Surface Pro alongside my Surface Pro 3 without a huge difference other than improved form factor and a worse pen (IMHO--since it won't work with my Cintiq and the legacy drivers conflict with Wacom's).

With Windows Mobile, you have an operating system that has been evolving since before the iPhone existed. Sure they are starting over with WM10, but I personally think it is unfair to act like Microsoft is the new kid to mobile aspirations.

The problem is that people keep mentioning all the efforts MS has put into phones, but that was under a different leader. And it's really not fair to the new guy to dump him into that same category. Consider that a new leader is usually put in place for CHANGE. Not to continue the inept mistakes of the previous one. Yet somehow people always raise the fact that Windows phone has been doing this or that. It doesn't matter at this point. Clear your mind of the past. It's like blaming every German today for world war 2 and the massacre that occurred. They had nothing to do with it but people cling on to negativity too much.

Yes Satya is killing windows phone. But that's because it's not his legacy, this is Balmer's work. He wants to start fresh with his own vision. And honestly, I have more faith in him to spark change within tech than most of the companies in mobile who are enjoying the profits of the current paradigm of phones which can change at any moment. Google is at least showing that they are thinking of the future. Apple seems to be relaxing with their market lead much like MS did at one point. But we can't really tell what's going on in the background. Satya is also allowing users to see their OS evolve and become better with time. And it's because of this that developers are investing moreso than ever. And yes, it's a slow process. Some developers may not be able to take the risk for what may become big in the future, others have the financial backing to take the risk because they see some potential.

And sure it's sad that your old hardware doesn't work well with the new hardware, but wacom and MS are working on even better stuff. I think that CRT Tv's are better because I can hook up Nintendo and use the gun accessory.

The surface was a flop. It didn't do well with market, it was there to introduce a vision. Now it is selling like hot cakes. More powerful hardware, better form factor, better materials and design in general. If you would rather have the first surface, then you should be happy with your current windows phone and not care about the future.

And a lot of people will say that MS wants to save money by having insiders test for them. Whether they save that much money or not is not really known. But given the PC diverse nature it was a smart move. So many configurations out in the wild that just can't be tested otherwise. And that's to make a better OS for those same people using it. But look at some of the design changes that have occured because of the insider program. The latest build of Windows 10 desktop is phenomenal. This is a CEO who wants to listen to the people and gauge their satisfaction to how work is being done. There will be complainers who don't understand the development process of a massive OS, but those with common sense will see it for what it is. I don't think this would have ever happened under Balmer. Balmer liked to force things onto people because he thought it was best.

A lot of people are very myopic and can't see past the current situation. Many are only concerned about their own needs yet fail to understand that it's their choice to move onto another platform. But instead they complain about how the one they are on currently isn't meeting their needs. Honestly, why are you still on this platform? Go to the one that meets your needs. MS has failed in phones, it can't recover from years of bad decisions. They can only try something different, something new. The problem is Balmer kept trying and just digging a deeper hole. Look at Google, they tried to compete with Facebook with Google+, it failed because the lead Facebook has is too great. So they pulled back.

So MS will never be the phone platform. But they can be the platform for something new and fresh. So either you understand that or you don't.

 

[cracgor]

The same inept leader responsible for the surface line? Or the inept leader that started unifying the experience with Windows 8?

None of the comparisons are fair. Worst are people's sports car and shopping mall analogies. But to act like a software company with 16 years of smartphone experience needs more time is myopic to gain mobile traction.

Also, claiming a Wacom Cintiq is to ntrig pen on the surface as CRT is to plasma or LCD is another bad analogy. Wacom is better. It allows recognition of pen angle, pressure, and rotation with many more degrees of pen pressure recognized. The screen is textured and matted to give the feel of drawing on canvas or paper. The nice thing when they used Wacom pens was that they were just interchangeable. The ntrig pens are not terrible. Just not as good if you push their limits.

Posted via the Windows Central App for Android

 

[halflifecrysis]

I've been using Continuum for a couple of months now. It's OK. Far from good and many updates away from great, but definitely on the right track. I'm pretty confident that Microsoft are serious about Continuum's future and it'll keep getting better with regular updates.

What I have been thinking about is how Microsoft could leverage Continuum to build a viable mobile market for themselves.

If I were in Acer or HP's shoes right now, there's no way I'd be launching a W10M phone as a standalone device. Samsung tried that. HTC tried that. Nokia tried that. Nothing worked.

However, if you launch your W10M device in a box that comes with a Continuum dock, 12" (or bigger) screen, keyboard and mouse as standard then suddenly you're not just trying to sell a phone. You're selling a complete portable computing experience.

Taking it to the next level, maybe the rumoured Surface Phone will come with Continuum already built in. No more dock to have to set up....everything runs wirelessly from the phone.

Imagine getting all of this as standard in your next W10M phone box in 2017:

1. A 64bit Surface Phone capable of running full windows programmes (full on 128GB built in memory, 6-8GB ram, SD card supported, 20Mpeg rear camera, 5Mpeg front camera, rocking front speakers, aluminium chassis, crazy clear 5.5" screen)

2. A wireless 12" screen with massive (but light) built in battery, front facing camera and awesome speakers. Maybe a similar design and specification to the Surface, but just a dumb screen until it sniffs out the continuum phone. Take it a little further, maybe there'd be a feature where you could plug your phone into the screen to piggyback power if your phone is running low on juice.

3. A premium, fold up wireless keyboard (or similar to Surface keyboard) and cool, super light ergonomic mouse.

In 2017 when you walk into your phone store for a W10M phone, you walk out with a full mobile/laptop portable computing solution.

Now that would make a cool unboxing video

I think the Note 6 concepts docking with a laptop shell is the way to go. Done by Motorola in a similar way years earlier. So ultimately a Surface book with a phone docking pocket would make more sense with continuum.

 

[Krystianpants]

The same inept leader responsible for the surface line? Or the inept leader that started unifying the experience with Windows 8?

None of the comparisons are fair. Worst are people's sports car and shopping mall analogies. But to act like a software company with 16 years of smartphone experience needs more time is myopic to gain mobile traction.

Also, claiming a Wacom Cintiq is to ntrig pen on the surface as CRT is to plasma or LCD is another bad analogy. Wacom is better. It allows recognition of pen angle, pressure, and rotation with many more degrees of pen pressure recognized. The screen is textured and matted to give the feel of drawing on canvas or paper. The nice thing when they used Wacom pens was that they were just interchangeable. The ntrig pens are not terrible. Just not as good if you push their limits.

Posted via the Windows Central App for Android

The idea of unification was actually partly due to Bill. And Balmer went about it the wrong way. Instead of focusing on their strengths, they took their weakest product and tried to alter their strongest product to match it. Furthermore they hard coded too much functionality directly into each separate OS making it impossible to unify properly. So when MS had to literally start all over with windows 10 the result was a mess of missing features which people complain about. Satya is focusing on the strength of the Desktop and user feedback. It's because of feedback that helps make changes without upsetting every person in the world and making another flop of an OS. Yes windows 8 flopped. It tried to force the phone UI onto the desktop with disregard for user efficiency and familiarity. And the surface line started making a bigger impact not just because of hardware but because of software, when windows 10 showed up. The ability to intelligently alter input/UI based on how the device was being used was a huge step up. And it's also windows 10 that will help their future products evolve to whatever needs a person has.

Wacom may be better but if it's not supported on newer hardware, it isn't exactly a surprise. Part of making it work involves partnerships which Satya is now creating.

 

[midnightfrolic]

I've been using Continuum for a couple of months now. It's OK. Far from good and many updates away from great, but definitely on the right track. I'm pretty confident that Microsoft are serious about Continuum's future and it'll keep getting better with regular updates.

What I have been thinking about is how Microsoft could leverage Continuum to build a viable mobile market for themselves.

If I were in Acer or HP's shoes right now, there's no way I'd be launching a W10M phone as a standalone device. Samsung tried that. HTC tried that. Nokia tried that. Nothing worked.

However, if you launch your W10M device in a box that comes with a Continuum dock, 12" (or bigger) screen, keyboard and mouse as standard then suddenly you're not just trying to sell a phone. You're selling a complete portable computing experience.

Taking it to the next level, maybe the rumoured Surface Phone will come with Continuum already built in. No more dock to have to set up....everything runs wirelessly from the phone.

Imagine getting all of this as standard in your next W10M phone box in 2017:

1. A 64bit Surface Phone capable of running full windows programmes (full on 128GB built in memory, 6-8GB ram, SD card supported, 20Mpeg rear camera, 5Mpeg front camera, rocking front speakers, aluminium chassis, crazy clear 5.5" screen)

2. A wireless 12" screen with massive (but light) built in battery, front facing camera and awesome speakers. Maybe a similar design and specification to the Surface, but just a dumb screen until it sniffs out the continuum phone. Take it a little further, maybe there'd be a feature where you could plug your phone into the screen to piggyback power if your phone is running low on juice.

3. A premium, fold up wireless keyboard (or similar to Surface keyboard) and cool, super light ergonomic mouse.

In 2017 when you walk into your phone store for a W10M phone, you walk out with a full mobile/laptop portable computing solution.

Now that would make a cool unboxing video

1) 64bit Mobile is being worked on, I 'heard' it's coming SOON

2) I carry an 2 in 1 ultrabook with me. And charging cords. Cannot under estimate the value of a 2 in 1 nowadays.

3) The new Logitech K830 isn't foldable, but it's pretty nice. Back lighting, full size keys, and touchpad built in! I have one for my 950XL. I also have a nice back lit foldable keyboard from iClever with full size keys and the Logitech MX Master mouse.


I am not using Continuum as much as I thought I would. I admit it's more of a niche scenario for me. I've thought about getting the dummy screen. But the more I thought about it, the more I'm inclined to carrying around my ultrabook. It's 100% full fledged Windows 10. Battery lasts a good 8hrs+ if used normally. Keyboard and touchpad included. Less cords to carry around. Much more powerful than the phone. Plus I can use adblockers and do all sorts of other stuff to kill ads.

Now, if Microsoft decides to give us the ability to block ads (yes Adblock Plus and such are coming), then I'd use the phone and Continuum more often. I do a lot of browsing. As of right now, ads are killing my mobile web browsing experience. It's so friggin slow. Same on my computers without adblockers and such. With no ads, sites load lightning fast.