Is lack of apps the real WP problem?

[captaincalamity]

I think Microsoft support the phone platform more than Android, with the operating system that is, android phones are so badly fragmented, that updates are few and far between, especially if your phone is over a year old and Samsung in particular releases new phones so often that older ones are dropped from updates relatively quickly, with the 640 and now the 950, ive noticed more updates than i ever had on the note 5 or s7, If only WP was allowed access to the Android app market, there wouldn't be a problem, there is now reason not, as surely most of the phones use arm based snapdragons and similar coding or am I wrong? I use my 950 for business and iphone 6 for games and nonsense, the WP is far superior for emails, connectivity to PC, files drag and drop, camera is miles better, call quality and signal, syncs far better with the companies network setup, but overall i simply prefer the black with white format to most of the UI. Do you think Microsoft will ever allow Android apps to be side loaded or access to some kind of play store?

 

[Drael646464]

This "lack of support" is the smartest thing they could have done IMO (actually windows receives far more updates, and far quicker updates than android - and try asking google if you have a technical problem)

A real windows phone should be able to do things that an android phone can't, just like a windows tablet can do things an android tablet can't. Now that the hardware is (just) up to scratch to run full windows 10 on a mobile....that's the smart move.

While hybrids and windows tablets are the fastest growing segment of tablets (perhaps the only growing segment of tablets actually, given android has shrunk in market share, and even ipad turn over is slowing), and tech adopters like young people and Asian markets are diving into them. Windows on tablet is "hot".

Microsoft shouldn't just want more UWPs, although that's growing - they should want more scalable touch friendly win32 in the windows store too - because that's software that has a) real marketplace demand and b) a difference of power/depth so large its obvious.

Games, creativity software and enterprise software is where windows has always shined. The power user stuff.

Why would you just copy everyone elses model if you have that legacy? _those_ are the developers you want on your platform. People like adobe, imageline, game companies. Products like HoloLens, VR, not the thin client type light software that the other two deal in.

Windows 10 is a popular operating system. Windows 10 mobile is not. The smart move was always to put the pieces in place to just ditch windows 10 mobile, and replace it with the popular, more powerful, product.

I know when that happens (and I can see its pretty much written in stone now, given the way the creators update adds mobile features to desktop), I'll be one of the first in line. And there is no question, that has a market, and will gain marketshare.

Being a "me too", that's in an invisible third place is never going to work commercially. This however will be a product that is ahead. That's where you want to be, not a follower, but a leader.

 

[Rahsna Asurac]

I see not one, but many problems with Windows 10 Mobile from reading all these posts.

• The OS lacks apps
• The apps that are there, are rarely the kind that offers a low-bug experience
• Microsoft gives the OS little PR-love
• Microsoft have and are continuously stating that Windows 10 Mobile is not their focus. Devs users and OEMs remember such state-setting announcements and in return lowers their engagement with the platform as well
• The amount of supported devices shrinks for every release
• OEMs cannot get users to buy their devices and Microsoft will not help them
• Shop personel steers customers away from their choice in a Windows Phone.
• In some countries, it is almost impossible to buy a Windows Phone now.
• The Nokia fans, that was into Windows Phones because of that Nokia quality and features (most noticeably, the camera), left when Nokia reentered the business on their own.

This list is likely by no means complete, and some of them tie into each other.
This is a very complicated situation and thusly it gives to reason, that Microsoft wants to reboot the platform in one way or another instead of trying to tackle and untangle all these issues.

 

[garak0410]

I see not one, but many problems with Windows 10 Mobile from reading all these posts.

• The OS lacks apps
• The apps that are there, are rarely the kind that offers a low-bug experience
• Microsoft gives the OS little PR-love
• Microsoft have and are continuously stating that Windows 10 Mobile is not their focus. Devs users and OEMs remember such state-setting announcements and in return lowers their engagement with the platform as well
• The amount of supported devices shrinks for every release
• OEMs cannot get users to buy their devices and Microsoft will not help them
• Shop personel steers customers away from their choice in a Windows Phone.
• In some countries, it is almost impossible to buy a Windows Phone now.
• The Nokia fans, that was into Windows Phones because of that Nokia quality and features (most noticeably, the camera), left when Nokia reentered the business on their own.

This list is likely by no means complete, and some of them tie into each other.
This is a very complicated situation and thusly it gives to reason, that Microsoft wants to reboot the platform in one way or another instead of trying to tackle and untangle all these issues.

Agreed this is a complicated situation. I left because no 950xl on Verizon and we were only left with the 735, which is now out of stock and also not on the list of future updates or insider builds. But I agree with your other comments as well.

 

[Canjok]

It's not about the apps. It's all about Microsoft. They treated Windows Phone / Mobile badly since my 920. Every update took Features and added Features. And now they added a lot of Bugs and the os is unstable.

 

[Guytronic]

So how many here never look in the Windows store?

 

[Drael646464]

So how many here never look in Windows store?

I often wonder that of the critics. Someone said in a thread earlier today "Facebook is ancient and has never been updated". Um, the current facebook app, is their official app, its very recent, and its directly ported from iOS.

Sometimes it feels like people are talking about the state of the windows store, three years ago when they last looked in the store.

It does often seem odd, that an empirically rapidly growing store, with more big title representation than it had under 8.1, and a lot more apps, even compared with 1 year ago, has people saying "the apps are dwindling, developers are all leaving!".

Even one of the editors of this website makes statements like this.

I regularly have been into the store for the last few years, and I use UWP apps all the time, and statements (such as developers are leaving! OMG!) like those of many here just leave me totally stratching my head - how does that match with observable reality?

If developers are leaving, why are there more great new big apps and games than there was? How is it getting better at the same time as all these developers are supposed leaving? _Which_ developers? Ie any actual specific examples to back up these extraordinary claims?

And just...

huh?

It's a bit like when so many claim essentially 0% marketshare. It's currently 2-6% in mature markets like the US, UK, Europe, Australia. Which is hardly insubstantial. That's a lot more than apple had of desktop marketshare before it rebounded and because the worlds biggest tech giant.

It would be nice if people started looking, and stopped repeating because frankly, it's pretty darn weird.

 

[Dmd74]

The app gap may be the final nail in the coffin for WM now. But 3 or 4 years ago, the biggest problem in my opinion was that Microsoft apparently never incentivized the carrier store sales people to push the platform. I dealt with a number of them, as most of friends and family members were using Windows phones at time (I'm one of the few left!) At both AT&T and Verizon, with only one or two exceptions, the sales person always tried to steer me to either an iPhone or android instead, when I specifically asked to see a Windows phone. In the Verizon store, she as much as ridiculed me, saying that WP was terrible and hard to use, and why would I want one?





You almost had to insist to even get to see one, as some stores didn't have them on display. Is it any wonder they never gained popularity? Big fail, Microsoft.

Whole heartedly agree.

 

[peter32]

Lack of apps may not be a reason for a falling OS. My wife has been using pureview 808 until rather recently, when the third party whatsapps apps no longer works. She continues to use the phone because of its great camera, and to a great extent, a stable OS. Its battery lasts quite a long time despite the age of the phone.

Windows phone, however, fails to address some fundamental problem. One of them is the battery life, which, given time, user will get fed up of its use. I had used 1020 in the past with battery drain issue which Microsoft never actually addressed. Should that was sorted, I would be using it till this day. Nonetheless I stopped using the phone after I dropped that in a monsoon drain for good. Its the bad battery drain that stopped me from buying another 1020 no matter how good the camera was.

In short, for me, its the poor OS support that put me off Windows phone platform. Apps actually came second.

 

[Drael646464]

Lack of apps may not be a reason for a falling OS. My wife has been using pureview 808 until rather recently, when the third party whatsapps apps no longer works. She continues to use the phone because of its great camera, and to a great extent, a stable OS. Its battery lasts quite a long time despite the age of the phone.

Windows phone, however, fails to address some fundamental problem. One of them is the battery life, which, given time, user will get fed up of its use. I had used 1020 in the past with battery drain issue which Microsoft never actually addressed. Should that was sorted, I would be using it till this day. Nonetheless I stopped using the phone after I dropped that in a monsoon drain for good. Its the bad battery drain that stopped me from buying another 1020 no matter how good the camera was.

In short, for me, its the poor OS support that put me off Windows phone platform. Apps actually came second.

I'm inclined to think that's more a problem of "Lumia released too many phones". The list of phone models is INSANE, especially for such a niche market. How anyone is expected to support all those hardware models is beyond me. When I saw the full list on this site, I was kind of like "say whut?"

 

[Drael646464]

It's like they were trying to build an entire market, every niche of phone, using just one company that never generated enough profit to even slightly warrant that approach.

A sort of "throw money at it and it'll all fall into place" mentality. I don't know if even Samsung made that many phones in that time period, did they? I can see why shareholders look at all that and shake their heads.

 

[jack69453]

I'm a technician by practice, so I like facts and numbers.

The issue with windows phone is apps and Microsoft's attitude.

For those who wonder whether Samsung released a lot of phones and others who say that there were just too many Lumia phones. Please visit GSMArena and use the phone finder.

Samsung release 271 phones between 2010 and 2015. And those were only the ones running android. The grand total of all OSs is 451. So yeah tell me about how hard it is to support phones. Microsoft in that same period released 24. Nokia; 148. I chose that time period because that was the time when we had Nokia functioning for comparison.

Note that this is the time period when Nokia was still releasing phones with multiple OS and held a significant market share.

The issue for the demise of WP is Microsoft. Not enough phones, no advertising, constant changes and cancelations which killed developer confidence. Lack of consistency and methods led to a lack of apps released.

Nokia was releasing phones and market share was growing. They purchased the leading manufacturer of hardware for their OS and then effectively shutdown the manufacturing.

So slow app release, slow phone release, no developer confidence. Systematic slaughter.

Plain and simple, the result is what we see today.

PS>> Phones are not a niche market. They are not developed for any specific class, process or function.

 

[Drael646464]

I'm a technician by practice, so I like facts and numbers.

The issue with windows phone is apps and Microsoft's attitude.

For those who wonder whether Samsung released a lot of phones and others who say that there were just too many Lumia phones. Please visit GSMArena and use the phone finder.

Samsung release 271 phones between 2010 and 2015. And those were only the ones running android. The grand total of all OSs is 451. So yeah tell me about how hard it is to support phones. Microsoft in that same period released 24. Nokia; 148. I chose that time period because that was the time when we had Nokia functioning for comparison.

Note that this is the time period when Nokia was still releasing phones with multiple OS and held a significant market share.

The issue for the demise of WP is Microsoft. Not enough phones, no advertising, constant changes and cancelations which killed developer confidence. Lack of consistency and methods led to a lack of apps released.

Nokia was releasing phones and market share was growing. They purchased the leading manufacturer of hardware for their OS and then effectively shutdown the manufacturing.

So slow app release, slow phone release, no developer confidence. Systematic slaughter.

Plain and simple, the result is what we see today.

PS>> Phones are not a niche market. They are not developed for any specific class, process or function.

I guess I am "someone" as well as "someone else". I won't tell you what you asked me to tell you. Instead;

I'm sorry you are bad about windows 10 mobile. Hope that feels a bit better to get all that off your chest.

Myself, I'm going to buy my first one in about a month. I'm quite familiar with the app situation because I am a huge app user and a tablet fan. Not a lot of mobile specific apps, but a lot of cross-platform functionality ones, more every day (more than the amazon app store). All the social apps I use, and some great bus stop games in there.

Going to be fun. And it's going to feel _so_ good to completely dodge google/apple and the obnoxious way they treat their customers.

 

[neeraj121y]

No they never looked stylish and impressive

 

[Drael646464]

No they never looked stylish and impressive

Just so we are clear, what is supposed to "look stylish and impressive" and doesn't?

 

[anon(3463402)]

Is lack of apps the real WP problem?

I think the main problem is lack of devices.

More devices = more users = more coders interested to write UWP apps.

BTW: Whoops. Millions of Android phones are wide open to hackers

 

[Joe920]

A real windows phone should be able to do things that an android phone can't

I know you're talking about hardware, but I think it's also true for the OS. MS has removed lots of handy little tricks that other phones don't have citing "lack of use". Things like an integrated QR code reader in search/Cortana, kids corner, etc. It make sense that they made the app experience more in line with android and iOS (bye bye pivots), but why remove all the neat little tricks that could peek other users' interest?

 

[a5cent]

It make sense that they made the app experience more in line with android and iOS (bye bye pivots)

I disagree. It would have made sense if Islandwood or Astoria were ever brought to market in a way that works. It would also have made sense if more people used Xamarin for UI development (almost nobody does).

None of those things are relevant, meaning Metro was sacrificed with absolutely nothing to show for it.

Not only should MS have stuck to the basic Metro principles, but expanded upon and refined them. Metro was certainly not perfect. For example, compacting the UI so as to raise information density was absolutely necessary. However, the principles underlying the Metro UI design language (not necessarily the implementation), were by far the best of any mobile OS. Had MS stuck with them, then W10M would still have something to differentiate itself from the competition.

The only remnant of Metro we can still find in W10M is the "coloring", basically, the system wide support for a dark theme.