Is the SP4 quality stable now?

[eatqqq]

This may sound like a stupid question but I still have to ask because the SP4 is not cheap.

I'm deciding to buy the M3 model.

I'm working in the automotive industry and I wont buy a new car model only until after 6 months of it's launch, because I know there're still engineering changes going on and the quality of the vehicle will not be as good or stable.

For electronic stuffs, I had two three times very painful experiences, the last one is the Samsung Note 4, I bought it on the 2nd day after it launches, and there are just too many hardware problems (the screen is loose and dust/dirt goes into the front camera and prox. sensor...)...

The SP4 has launched for a few weeks, and I dont want to buy the first batch... But when is the best time to buy it? Or maybe you think I really dont have to wait and just go buy it now coz the quality is already good and stable enough?

Also... for the liquid cooling thing... are their possibility that it will leak after a few years, or the liquid turns bad and the SP4 will turn super hot after 3 4 years of usage?

Thanks...

 

[boltman2013]

There is no liquid cooling in the M3 its cool enough without it.

As for is it stable? I use it regularly as my daily driver, I know what I am doing also.

I think the more you can run SP4 stock the better.. Can't wait to ditch Chrome and probably ditching ESET soon. Edge next year will be enough , not yet because I still need Lastpass until Hello/Passport support most websites.

 

[Nutmegz]

eatqqq,

I would honestly wait until they update the graphics driver and work out the sleep/power issues first unless you need it immediately. Otherwise you may hit some of the software bugs and get turned off from the device like I was.

I guess I don't have much faith in companies fixing things after they sell you the product. I think this goes for all of skylake chips and the latest windows 10 update.

 

[m4600]

I'm working in the automotive industry and I wont buy a new car model only until after 6 months of it's launch, because I know there're still engineering changes going on and the quality of the vehicle will not be as good or stable...

The situation here is slightly different. The hardware design seems to be solid. No major design flaws have been reported so far. Time will tell, but the initial indications are good. However, there is a whole bunch of software issues that seem to be related to device drivers, mostly Intel and perhaps Windows 10. So if you can tolerate some glitches for the next couple of months, it is safe to buy now. The software bugs will be sorted out eventually. But if you expect the device to work reliably and without daily issues, then you better wait a few months.

 

[eatqqq]

There is no liquid cooling in the M3 its cool enough without it.

As for is it stable? I use it regularly as my daily driver, I know what I am doing also.

I think the more you can run SP4 stock the better.. Can't wait to ditch Chrome and probably ditching ESET soon. Edge next year will be enough , not yet because I still need Lastpass until Hello/Passport support most websites.

I thought the liquid cooling applies on all three M3 I5 I7 models, only that the M3 only has the liquid cooling and with no fan, but other two I5 and I7 are "hybrid" so it has both liquid and fan...?

 

[eatqqq]

eatqqq,

I would honestly wait until they update the graphics driver and work out the sleep/power issues first unless you need it immediately. Otherwise you may hit some of the software bugs and get turned off from the device like I was.

I guess I don't have much faith in companies fixing things after they sell you the product. I think this goes for all of skylake chips and the latest windows 10 update.

Understood, so it's mostly software problems now and the hardware seems to be find (at least nothing yet has been discovered)

 

[eatqqq]

The situation here is slightly different. The hardware design seems to be solid. No major design flaws have been reported so far. Time will tell, but the initial indications are good. However, there is a whole bunch of software issues that seem to be related to device drivers, mostly Intel and perhaps Windows 10. So if you can tolerate some glitches for the next couple of months, it is safe to buy now. The software bugs will be sorted out eventually. But if you expect the device to work reliably and without daily issues, then you better wait a few months.

This is good, the most worrying thing for me is the liquid cooling, I did some research on youtube and google but I cant find much, seems like the SP4 is the first "laptop" to use this technologies...
I found some similar technologies used in Fujitsu phones but they are simply reviews and not indepth...

I'm really interested to know if theres any possibility the liquid will leak someday or if the liquid will turn bad... similar to car coolants we'll have to change it every three years and it corrodes. I want to know what material is that liquid but I cant find any on the internet...

 

[boltman2013]

I thought the liquid cooling applies on all three M3 I5 I7 models, only that the M3 only has the liquid cooling and with no fan, but other two I5 and I7 are "hybrid" so it has both liquid and fan...?

You thought wrong.."Microsoft's new hybrid cooling system in the (Core i5 and up) Surface Pro 4 models adds liquid cooling to the mix so the fan doesn't have to kick in as much."

 

[m4600]

There is no liquid cooling in the M3

I thought they all had liquid cooling. Just the fan is missing on the M3 model. See this image from iFixIt:

 

[onlysublime]

The issues are all software. The hardware itself is great.

If you have the patience to deal with buggy drivers and operating system, it will get better. It's already a good experience, just buggy. If you want to wait it out, I would suggest 6 months.

As for the cooling, it's encased in metal. The pipes are metal. If something causes the metal to break (like a bullet puncturing it or something bending the Surface in half), chances are pretty good that the Surface was already dead to begin with.

 

[QuentinJ]

You thought wrong.."Microsoft's new hybrid cooling system in the (Core i5 and up) Surface Pro 4 models adds liquid cooling to the mix so the fan doesn't have to kick in as much."

M3 is fanless, and from the iFixIt guide, M3 has liquid cooling.
i5 and i7 have both fan and liquid cooling

 

[boltman2013]

M3 is fanless, and from the iFixIt guide, M3 has liquid cooling.
i5 and i7 have both fan and liquid cooling

Wrong and I will prove it here:

Surface Pro 4: fanless cooling or hybrid but never trotthling | UnlockPwd
Surface Pro 4 is cooled in two ways: Core M3 version is fanless one with (Core i5 / i7 Skylake 15 watt uses a “hybrid” system based on 2 heatpipes intended CPU. One comes from the fan, the other ends in a huge sink plate installed between the two batteries with inside the liquid . )The picture below will help you understand. In standard use, Surface Pro 4 with Core CPU tries to dissipate the heat generated by the second, dispersing the energy / heat in various parts of the frame; when in fact there is much work load (read: when the sensors react to a certain temperature), here he comes to the rescue even the first heatpipe with its fan .

Surface Pro with 4 CPU Core M3 is however completely different. The M3 has a Core SoC TDP of 4.5 watts and allows you to do without the active dissipation. In practice, does not have the active part.

From iFixit...
https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft+Surface+Pro+4+Teardown/51568
The Surface Pro 4's heat sink shows off its impressive makeover, flaunting longer copper heat pipes and a large copper plate for added heat dissipation.

Most likely, these changes were made to address the heat-related throttling issues observed in the Surface Pro 3.
Designed with a hybrid cooling system, the Pro 4 takes advantage of both passive and active cooling.
Well, some of them do. Our unit uses a combination of passive cooling and...well, passive cooling. More powerful models include a fan that activates when temperatures get too high for passive cooling.

Nothing says LIQUID COOLING on the M3 ONLY hybrid models! Don't assume just because it looks similar. The M3 is designed to be passively cooled not water cooled

 

[m4600]

I think your confusion comes from associating liquid cooling with active cooling. Liquid cooling is actually passive cooling. Active cooling is the the one that involves the fan. Hybrid cooling is the one that involves both.
The i5/i7 models have hybrid cooling (passive/liquid + active with fan). The M3 model doesn't have active cooling and because of that, it doesn't have hybrid cooling either. It only has passive cooling, which includes liquid cooling. At least that's how I understand it.

 

[boltman2013]

I think your confusion comes from associating liquid cooling with active cooling. Liquid cooling is actually passive cooling. Active cooling is the the one that involves the fan. Hybrid cooling is the one that involves both.
The i5/i7 models have hybrid cooling (passive/liquid + active with fan). The M3 model doesn't have active cooling and because of that, it doesn't have hybrid cooling either. It only has passive cooling, which includes liquid cooling. At least that's how I understand it.

[url]http://23.253.98.167/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Surface-Pro-4-Hybrid-Liquid-Cooling-780x476.jpg[/url]

I'm willing to concede that you may be correct... but still have seen no proof that the M3 indeed has liquid cooling , it does make some sense if they can use the same heat pipes though between models.