Is this Nokia's best after all the Smack Talk?

[AngryNil]

Because you know what, Samsung isn't treating Windows Phone as mid tier anymore. They brought their maximum possible specs to the device. The days of WP7 hardware mediocrity are over.

There is nothing they are doing that was different to before. The Focus was the S adjusted for the WP7 chassis, the Focus S was the SII adjusted for the WP7 chassis, and the Ativ S is the SIII adjusted for the WP8 chassis.

 

[Mitlov]

There is nothing they are doing that was different to before. The Focus was the S adjusted for the WP7 chassis, the Focus S was the SII adjusted for the WP7 chassis, and the Ativ S is the SIII adjusted for the WP8 chassis.

They're delivering the same processor and resolution as in their Android flagship. Before, they were hampered by WP7's meager hardware requirements. So this is the first time you could put a Samsung WP phone next to a Samsung Android flagship and say "the WP phone is just as good." That's different.

 

[cckgz4]

I would agree with this. Seems to me, to stereotype, that the Ativ S is the phone for engineering students and the Lumia 900 is the phone for humanities students.

The Galaxy S3 wins the spec war and the objective utility war. Bigger screen, lower weight, replacable battery, etc. But even people who really like it (like me) can't say much for its aesthetic or its personality. It's a well-executed electronic device utterly devoid of any unique identity or personality.

The Lumia 920 is the most boldly-styled phone on the market today...identifiable from a hundred paces. Nokia's exclusive apps help add to the "greater ownership experience." And the case it shares with the 900 has a reassuring subjective "solidity" in the hand, even if it is heavy, slippery, and doesn't allow battery replacement. The camera was the one and only thing where it might have an objective spec advantage over the Ativ S, and it turns out it won't there either.

Both are appealing phones, but the manner in which they're appealing is night and day.

if the 920 has pureview (well confirmed to have it), it will have a better camera

 

[Mitlov]

if the 920 has pureview (well confirmed to have it), it will have a better camera

It's confirmed that the name "Pureview" will be used for the 920's camera. What hasn't been confirmed is what that means here.

Nokia recently dismissed rumors of a 42-megapixel or 21-megapixel camera in the 920, saying "it's not the megapixels, it's what you do with them." Or something like that. Ignoring the fact that having that many megapixels of raw data is what allowed the 808 Pureview to do what it does, by allowing seven pixels of data to determine the color of each image pixel. Instead, from what we've seen and read, the Lumia 920 has an 8-megapixel camera. What, if anything, "Pureview" means in that context is still up in the air...but we know for sure that this camera is NOTHING like the 808 Pureview's camera.

 

[snowmutt]

Until I get my grubby, greedy hands on the devices, see which one goes where, and see the prices on them, I am pumped on Samsung, Nokia and HTC (in that order) until they give me reason not to be.

I will say that for those hoping from more from Nokia, relax. These are the first of many WP's they will release in the coming months. Sammy and HTC may need to see some more sales before they start developing some more, but Nokia will put out other devices. These are just the first ones, not the only ones.

 

[blehblehbleh]

It's confirmed that the name "Pureview" will be used for the 920's camera. What hasn't been confirmed is what that means here.

Nokia recently dismissed rumors of a 42-megapixel or 21-megapixel camera in the 920, saying "it's not the megapixels, it's what you do with them." Or something like that. Ignoring the fact that having that many megapixels of raw data is what allowed the 808 Pureview to do what it does, by allowing seven pixels of data to determine the color of each image pixel. Instead, from what we've seen and read, the Lumia 920 has an 8-megapixel camera. What, if anything, "Pureview" means in that context is still up in the air...but we know for sure that this camera is NOTHING like the 808 Pureview's camera.

Sorry for the side track, but isn't that a good thing regardless? I read what you wrote to mean that Nokia abstracted the technology to be applied to lower megapixel cameras to produce better on par image processing. Combine that with a really good 8 megapixel CMOS sensor and the photos should come out great, no?

 

[Mitlov]

Sorry for the side track, but isn't that a good thing regardless? I read what you wrote to mean that Nokia abstracted the technology to be applied to lower megapixel cameras to produce better on par image processing. Combine that with a really good 8 megapixel CMOS sensor and the photos should come out great, no?

Well, you can't use multiple data points to determine the color of each image pixel if you have 8 megapixels of raw data to make an 8 megapixel image file. The very concept of the 808 Pureview doesn't work anymore when you have a one-to-one correspondence of raw-data-pixel input and image-pixel output. You can "abstract the technology" of the 808 Pureview to, say, a 21-megapixel camera, but you can't "abstract the technology" to a mere 8-megapixel camera.

As for the quality of the components, you're assuming they'll all be excellent quality because of the Pureview name. But before the Lumia 900 hit consumers, we all assumed it's camera would be excellent quality because of the Karl Zeiss name. In practice, the pictures it took were notably inferior to pictures from the Galaxy S3's no-name 8-megapixel camera (which, for the record, is excellent in practice).

So I'm open-minded but skeptical of this 8-megapixel "Pureview." I'd hate to see it be a repeat of the 900's "Karl Zeiss" camera...all name and hype and poor results.

 

[AngryNil]

Before, they were hampered by WP7's meager hardware requirements. So this is the first time you could put a Samsung WP phone next to a Samsung Android flagship and say "the WP phone is just as good." That's different.

But it's nothing to do with Samsung's commitment, they pretty much have to match the top WP8 specifications for their flagship or they'll be stomped by Nokia and HTC.

"Karl Zeiss"

Carl with a "C" :]

 

[blehblehbleh]

Well, you can't use multiple data points to determine the color of each image pixel if you have 8 megapixels of raw data to make an 8 megapixel image file. The very concept of the 808 Pureview doesn't work anymore when you have a one-to-one correspondence of raw-data-pixel input and image-pixel output. You can "abstract the technology" of the 808 Pureview to, say, a 21-megapixel camera, but you can't "abstract the technology" to a mere 8-megapixel camera.

Hmm do you have a more detailed break down of how their tech works? I read their published pdf and it sounded like it sounded like a process similar to producing HDR photos but instead of light exposures it's doing it with all the pixels of the sensor. So why wouldn't it work on just about any range of megapixels?

It just means the resulting file isn't one-to-one like you said, but that's not the point of Pureview to begin with...so what's the detriment? The resulting photo theoretically should look great.

Edit: Just re-read their whitepaper. I see what you're saying now. I guess we'll have to see tomorrow. I suppose they could do it with a lower input to output ratio but I guess that'd be pointless if the sensor isn't at a decent megapixel count to make use of more pixels for the oversampling. I suppose here's hoping that Nokia surprises us.

 

[rdubmu]

I agree. Better market share = more general interest =more apps and so on. And while it was Nokia who brought me to WP and I prefer their design, its good to have choices amongst different WP OEMs.

I thought the Venue Pro was the best 1st Generation Device at the start, but future support totally sucked and the HD7 was the superior 1st Gen launch device.

I hope that HTC crushes Nokia in terms of their device. I don't want more of the same. Nokia is in the lead because of their exclusive apps/marketplace. The design isn't something I personally like, the edges of my L900 didn't feel good in my hand. The Titan 2 is the best of the Post Mango Devices that has been released.

I really hope that the Pure View Camera on the L920 is going to be better than the 900, anything can beat that phone, even my flipphone razer from 2004 (kidding of course).

I bet HTC releases a upgrade to the Titan Line. Maybe a 20 mega pixle camera to boot.

 

[Reflexx]

Daniel from here, and Josh Topolsky from the Verge has both tweeted that they've tried the camera and are impressed.

PureMotion HD Plus, Cinemagraph, Optical Image Stabilization, Smart Shoot, Nokia Music, JBL boom box and headphones, "mitten touch" display ;-P, camera "lenses", screen shots, charging stations, better Clear Black Display, City Lens, Nokia Maps...

They're in the lead as far as the high-end Windows Phone devices. The only thing missing is a freaking SD card for the Lumia 920.

 

[bear_lx]

whats with all the samsung love and nokia bashing?
there is nothing game changing about samsung either... cheap hardware, horrible radios that lose signal, poor speakers... furthermore everyone in my family has had issues with samsung products, blu ray players, tv's, ect...

and to the OP, why do you want what everyone else has? be different man! plus it comes in black

 

[Mitlov]

whats with all the samsung love and nokia bashing?
there is nothing game changing about samsung either... cheap hardware, horrible radios that lose signal, poor speakers... furthermore everyone in my family has had issues with samsung products, blu ray players, tv's, ect...

and to the OP, why do you want what everyone else has? be different man! plus it comes in black

Not bashing, just disappointment. Nokia set the bar high by picketing the Samsung Ativ S release event (seriously, they had "protesters" at Samsung's event telling people to wait for the Nokia release instead). But I don't see many objective advantages over the lighter, larger-screened, micro-SD-card-equipped Ativ S. Wireless charging is a gimmick (you still have to lay it on the desk to charge) and I've never felt the need to wear mittens while using my smartphone. Not to mention the whole bait-and-switch thing with the Pureview name. The 808 Pureview was game-changing hardware. Now they're just claiming superior software layered over unremarkable smartphone hardware.

Sorry you've had bad luck with Samsung products. My nine-year-old Samsung TV works just fine.

 

[mb-dape]

More important than "is it enough to hold up against Samsung Ativ and HTCs WP8?", is it really something that will make iOS and Android users switch?

comScore reported yesterday that WP/WM lost 10 % of their market share in the last 4 months and is down to 3.6 % now.

Attracting new smartphone buyers will not be enough, WP needed a real game changer that made people seriously consider buying a WP device instead of the new iPhone or another Android.

The Lumia 920 looks like a great phone, but when it comes to hardware Android has been having it since last winter, and when it comes to software there wasnt really anything near a breakthrough.

WP needed something with a real WOW effect which would make the iOS and Android users jealous. I didnt see anything like that today.

And no release date... Apple is probably happy today.

 

[power5]

I think their software is the best part of the 920, not the hardware. The smart photo editing and video editing is amazing for a phone to do. Cinemagraph and smartshoot are just spectacular. The augmented map stuff is also great.

 

[1jaxstate1]

PureView, Wireless charging, NFC, Removable SD, gonna be the best screen on the market. WTF else do people want in a phone? I mean really, what else?

 

[Reflexx]

PureView, Wireless charging, NFC, Removable SD, gonna be the best screen on the market. WTF else do people want in a phone? I mean really, what else?

They want it to say "Samsung" on the front instead of "Nokia"

 

[power5]

A new shape to herald all that greatness. About the only thing that kept me from getting a 4s. The 800 and 900 have had the exact same shape. Now the 920? I am glad I upgraded at the halfway point instead of the launch of the new OS and products. I can wait till the 8.5 devices come out.

The Pureview is just amazing though. Well the software behind it I guess, not the hardware.

 

[palandri]

My question is, can any of these phones hold up against the latest Jitterbug models?

 

[Reflexx]

A new shape to herald all that greatness. About the only thing that kept me from getting a 4s. The 800 and 900 have had the exact same shape. Now the 920? I am glad I upgraded at the halfway point instead of the launch of the new OS and products. I can wait till the 8.5 devices come out.

The Pureview is just amazing though. Well the software behind it I guess, not the hardware.

The Optical Image Stabilization is largely hardware.