It's too late.....

[cckgz4]

That was kind of my point, the average customer have no problem with downloading apps that suits his/her needs. That's is why a few unique integrated features in WP don't seem to impress people.

Or maybe they don't know about it. Of course the internet isn't impressed because the bias is set from them using their daily driver. I have shown a lot of people in person some of the social integration and bing integration features that they had no clue about, which is due to the marketing not advertising it strongly. I know the GSIII has a pop up video player. Why? Cause on Hulu, they play it on every commercial break. Microsoft needs to do that

 

[grasshoper]

So what is so unique with WP? Sure, the social media integration is a good idea, but if you use Facebook or Twitter you still have to use the "third party"-apps for most tasks. Two interfaces for the same service is IMHO not innovative.

And Facebook comes preinstalled on almost every Android-phone, and most OEMs have some sort of integration of social medias in the UI.

You can setup Windows Live sync, Google Talk etc. without apps on Android too, just to take your examples. Google Maps is superior to Nokia Maps, Google search instead of Bing. WP has Office and Android has by far the best YouTube integration.

No, WP is not unique when it comes to features out of the box, however I don't think of that as a problem. It sounds like you have missed the whole "app revolution". 10 year old kids know how to download the latest games. People who don't even know what OS their phone has are using Facebook, Twitter, Youtube etc.

"Most people use only what the OS can do by itself". If you were right WP would be as poor as the others, fortunately you are so wrong.

I do not think I'm "so wrong". Kids with iPhones are not the majority of iDevice users: very rich people who can afford to offer an iPhone to their kids are NOT the majority of people !

Instead, people who buy iPhones are 25 to 60 years old people, who often don't even download apps. I know, I've seen it, even people that I didn't know before talking about that with them.

iPhones are NOT cheap, even with contract. You've got to have *money* to buy them, and shall I remember you that only 10% of the world has enough wealth to buy a 400$ phone (Poverty Facts and Stats). The reality is not reduced to your friends circles !

Android is another matter, because some come real cheap. I don't know about custom and habits of those people. I don't know if they buy apps or not. What I know is that there is a lot of non-geek people, or people who do not know much about technology, who buy smartphones.

Those people tend to use what they're given with in the first place.

Of course, all of this depends on what kind of market you're aiming: tech enthusiasts or mainstream people ?

Today, a lot of mainstream people buy smartphones. This is proven by smartphone market going so high since the past few years: smartphones are in the hands of non-geeks, non-tech enthusiasts, and those are *not* familiar with apps !

You can't evaluate a market just by surfing the web and looking at tech forums. Of course, there you'll see lot of people knowing what they're talking about. But the vast majority of people don't go to these forums or websites. They don't care. They use Amazon, eBay or their bank website. They do not lurk on internet to know what apps are released. They just find smartphones useful, often as is, and don't bother much. Really !!

 

[socialcarpet]

I'm definitely interested in seeing what WP8 has to offer. I refuse to buy another Apple product based on my loathing of their business practices and even though I'm currently using a Galaxy Nexus, it still has lag and crashes. I want an OS that is reliable and smooth. While WP7 was a great start, WP8 will be a much better overall package. I think that we'll have a lot more apps available due to the OS sharing its kernel with Windows 8. WP7 was an extremely smooth running OS and I'm sure that a lot of the gripes that people had will be addressed. I definitely wouldn't count WP8 out.

People need to get over the "loathing" of Apple's business practices. Apple doesn't do anything any other company in their position doesn't do. They aggressively protect their IP. They use Chinese labor. So does every other electronics company. Get over it.

Apple is one of the most valuable companies in the world and they are better at hyper-aggressively protecting their IP because they have to be. They make a super thin aluminum laptop in a certain style and a month later there are 100 crappy knockoffs trying to emulate their design. Samsung copied the CRAP out of Apple relentlessly in the beginning, that's what these lawsuits are about. They've settled down a little since then, but Apple is going for the jugular. I say good for them. The only original idea Samsung has ever had in smartphones was to keep making them bigger and bigger. Hardly a stroke of genius. Everything else they do is derivative as ****. Throwing a stylus on a phone is nothing new. Making phones out of cheap glossy plastic isn't new either.

Notice Microsoft isn't getting sued by Apple over WP? Nokia isn't getting sued over the Lumia. All Google and Samsung have to do is come up with some genuinely original ideas if they want Apple's legal team to back off.

Anyway, IMO it's stupid to think you're making some kind of statement against Apple's products. Buy what you like. Believe me Google is a scumbag company, so is Microsoft. ANY big company is ruthless. You don't get to the top of the game by being a *****cat.

Samsung and every other phone company makes their phones in Asian factories under the same conditions or worse than Apple too.

It's just that the media doesn't care. Everyone loves to hate Apple so if the CFO of Apple has bean salad for lunch and farts in a board meeting, it's a fiasco that requires front page coverage on every news page and 2 weeks of dedicated coverage on every dumb tech blog.

 

[thecaringkind]

Greetings true believers!

I'm back, (things have been a little hectic since I received my Lumia), and oh my ye of little faith!!!

"It's over..."

Some questions: Is it only the job of Google and Apple to innovate in the tech sector? Is innovation, or always bringing something new to the cell phone arena as important as the continued evolution of an OS that does what humans need an OS to do? Is there something in the water that creates doubt, skepticism and downright melancholy musings from even the most dedicated of WP users and haters alike?

Not to sound like the proverbial broken record here but:

REALLY?!

Microsoft took the worst cell phone OS platform and rebuilt it from the ground up into something beautiful and fluid. The genius was in the simplicity and not necessarily the details of an OS that does what PEOPLE need it to do. It wasn't wonky fun for tech-heads. It was lovely to look at and to interact with without a million distractions thrown in from skinned OEM fragmentation. It became a solid platform in which good apps continue to find a home. It became an OS that is darn near crash-proof in terms of its reliability. Does it do what Jelly Bean and IOS 6 do? No. Does it have to? NO.

WP is more than a niche product or platform. It is truly unique and distinct in a market that is overcome with a terrible SAMENESS. It can do what every smartphone OS needs to do. It can even do what the other mobile operating systems would like to do and it does it all with an amazing sense of style.

WP can only get better. It is certainly not about the 'latest and greatest'. To be fair it is certainly not about style over substance. It is more like an amalgam of the two.

Another question: WHAT ARE THESE NAYSAYERS LOOKING FOR?! AND what are they looking for that WP cannot do now or will not do when WP8 Apollo arrives?

Its amazing the shortsightedness of some folk when it comes to this platform that we all love. Its like the biggest slovenly loser on the block complaining about his super model hot wife not being tall enough... GET OVER IT!

WP is not perfect, however, what it does and is fits perfectly well into my life and hopefully millions of other people's lives who recognize that 'sameness' is a word best left to Android and iOS.

 

[Nataku4ca]

Greetings true believers!

I'm back, (things have been a little hectic since I received my Lumia), and oh my ye of little faith!!!

came to the forum just to like your comment after reading it in my email, great post!

 

[speedfreak228]

Greetings true believers!

I'm back, (things have been a little hectic since I received my Lumia), and oh my ye of little faith!!!

"It's over..."

Some questions: Is it only the job of Google and Apple to innovate in the tech sector? Is innovation, or always bringing something new to the cell phone arena as important as the continued evolution of an OS that does what humans need an OS to do? Is there something in the water that creates doubt, skepticism and downright melancholy musings from even the most dedicated of WP users and haters alike?

Not to sound like the proverbial broken record here but:

REALLY?!

Microsoft took the worst cell phone OS platform and rebuilt it from the ground up into something beautiful and fluid. The genius was in the simplicity and not necessarily the details of an OS that does what PEOPLE need it to do. It wasn't wonky fun for tech-heads. It was lovely to look at and to interact with without a million distractions thrown in from skinned OEM fragmentation. It became a solid platform in which good apps continue to find a home. It became an OS that is darn near crash-proof in terms of its reliability. Does it do what Jelly Bean and IOS 6 do? No. Does it have to? NO.

WP is more than a niche product or platform. It is truly unique and distinct in a market that is overcome with a terrible SAMENESS. It can do what every smartphone OS needs to do. It can even do what the other mobile operating systems would like to do and it does it all with an amazing sense of style.

WP can only get better. It is certainly not about the 'latest and greatest'. To be fair it is certainly not about style over substance. It is more like an amalgam of the two.

Another question: WHAT ARE THESE NAYSAYERS LOOKING FOR?! AND what are they looking for that WP cannot do now or will not do when WP8 Apollo arrives?

Its amazing the shortsightedness of some folk when it comes to this platform that we all love. Its like the biggest slovenly loser on the block complaining about his super model hot wife not being tall enough... GET OVER IT!

WP is not perfect, however, what it does and is fits perfectly well into my life and hopefully millions of other people's lives who recognize that 'sameness' is a word best left to Android and iOS.

Awesome post!

 

[scdkad]

....for Windows Phone. Why do I say this? I've come to the conclusion that we are no longer living in an era where the best product wins. We are now in an era where to win you have to be first or bring something radically new to the table. With the Windows 8 SDK leaks I have yet to see anything that is radically new or different from the other OSs. It's a "me too" product. The majority of the world has already adopted iOS or Android. It would take something really new and innovative to make most of those users switch to Windows Phone. Case in point, the Zune HD. IMO it's a far better PMP than the iPod but it couldn't even put a dent in its market share. Case in point, the Xbox 360. What it did new and different is established an easy way to play on-line games with your friends. It was far superior than what Sony was offering at the time. You need a killer feature to make people want your product and Live Tiles aren't it... I love Windows Phone but I'm afraid it's over. I plan to ride it out until the end or until it wins. But in the end I fear it's going to go the way of the Zune unless there is some killer feature we have yet to hear about.

The killer feature is Live Tiles-ios and andriod don't have it and never will..

 

[mb-dape]

I do not think I'm "so wrong". Kids with iPhones are not the majority of iDevice users: very rich people who can afford to offer an iPhone to their kids are NOT the majority of people !

Instead, people who buy iPhones are 25 to 60 years old people, who often don't even download apps. I know, I've seen it, even people that I didn't know before talking about that with them.

iPhones are NOT cheap, even with contract. You've got to have *money* to buy them, and shall I remember you that only 10% of the world has enough wealth to buy a 400$ phone (Poverty Facts and Stats). The reality is not reduced to your friends circles !

Android is another matter, because some come real cheap. I don't know about custom and habits of those people. I don't know if they buy apps or not. What I know is that there is a lot of non-geek people, or people who do not know much about technology, who buy smartphones.

Those people tend to use what they're given with in the first place.

Of course, all of this depends on what kind of market you're aiming: tech enthusiasts or mainstream people ?

Today, a lot of mainstream people buy smartphones. This is proven by smartphone market going so high since the past few years: smartphones are in the hands of non-geeks, non-tech enthusiasts, and those are *not* familiar with apps !

You can't evaluate a market just by surfing the web and looking at tech forums. Of course, there you'll see lot of people knowing what they're talking about. But the vast majority of people don't go to these forums or websites. They don't care. They use Amazon, eBay or their bank website. They do not lurk on internet to know what apps are released. They just find smartphones useful, often as is, and don't bother much. Really !!

You are right that there is a lot of non-geek people buying smartphones. But there is nothing geeky about apps. If I look at my family, my relatives, my friends, I promise that EVERYONE have tried Angry Birds and Facebook on their phone. And thats rich and "poor" people, from 9 years old to over 60. A few iPhones and the rest uses Android. If they have downloaded one or two free apps, why wouldnt they download some more to fit their needs?

If I would ask my 83 year old grandmother about apps, she would know what they are used for, even though she have never even touched a cell phone, because apps are everywhere, everyday in the newspaper, in tv-shows, she even gets mails from the government telling her that she can download their apps on her iPhone/Android to simplify her life. Also her phone carrier, electric provider and tv carrier have apps which they want her to use.

Whatever you think people is aware of apps and how to get them, of course there are people who dont use apps too, but if you think MOST people dont, you are wrong.

 

[socialcarpet]

iPhones are NOT cheap, even with contract. You've got to have *money* to buy them, and shall I remember you that only 10% of the world has enough wealth to buy a 400$ phone

This hasn't been true for a LONG time.

I know several people who make $30k a year or less and have iPhones.

You can get a new iPhone 3GS for $99 or FREE on contract now. You can get an iPhone 4 for $99-199.

Androids aren't that much cheaper, in fact most of the top Android models are MORE money, as much as $299 on contract.

And if anyone offers you an Android for free, run in the other direction, because there's a 9/10 chance it's a slow, buggy piece of garbage you can't depend on. You'd be better off choosing the free Blackberry Curve or even a feature phone.

 

[smoledman]

The killer feature is Live Tiles-ios and andriod don't have it and never will..

Not just that it has live tiles, but that you can pin almost any content to the start screen from any app that supports pinning. Also with WP8, now they've expanded the number of images a live tiles can cycle through. Really puts the static icons of iOS/android to shame.

 

[eric12341]

You are right that there is a lot of non-geek people buying smartphones. But there is nothing geeky about apps. If I look at my family, my relatives, my friends, I promise that EVERYONE have tried Angry Birds and Facebook on their phone. And thats rich and "poor" people, from 9 years old to over 60. A few iPhones and the rest uses Android. If they have downloaded one or two free apps, why wouldnt they download some more to fit their needs?

If I would ask my 83 year old grandmother about apps, she would know what they are used for, even though she have never even touched a cell phone, because apps are everywhere, everyday in the newspaper, in tv-shows, she even gets mails from the government telling her that she can download their apps on her iPhone/Android to simplify her life. Also her phone carrier, electric provider and tv carrier have apps which they want her to use.

Whatever you think people is aware of apps and how to get them, of course there are people who dont use apps too, but if you think MOST people dont, you are wrong.

Actually you are wrong, check this:
Study: Apps not that important to smartphone users | wpcentral | Windows Phone News, Forums, and Reviews

And before you say it's biased reporting because it's WPCentral this is based off a research study by pew and pew is a very credible source.

 

[MrBurrrns]

Not just that it has live tiles, but that you can pin almost any content to the start screen from any app that supports pinning. Also with WP8, now they've expanded the number of images a live tiles can cycle through. Really puts the static icons of iOS/android to shame.

There are these things called widgets on Android, you know?

Actually you are wrong, check this:
Study: Apps not that important to smartphone users | wpcentral | Windows Phone News, Forums, and Reviews

And before you say it's biased reporting because it's WPCentral this is based off a research study by pew and pew is a very credible source.

You can look at studies, or you can look at the real world. Take a look at the first iPhone you find amongst your friends and see if (s)he has apps on it. Or just take a look at what is the number one reason people are hesitant to switch to WP - missing apps. It's an apps world baby and we're just living in it.

 

[sinime]

You can look at studies, or you can look at the real world. Take a look at the first iPhone you find amongst your friends and see if (s)he has apps on it. Or just take a look at what is the number one reason people are hesitant to switch to WP - missing apps. It's an apps world baby and we're just living in it.

I do agree with you that apps do matter, to some extent, but in the end, people only use a handful of apps on a daily bases and for the most part, WP has those handful of apps.

Also, Have a look at this thread, if true, you can take about 400,000 iOS apps and throw them out the window and probably more on android...
http://forums.windowscentral.com/showthread.php?t=195681

I noticed the other day, there is an app on iOS, TapaTalk, that has 1 iOS version with some in app purchasable themes. On Android, there are 4 versions of the app in the store, 1 for each theme. I'm sure that isn't the only 1 like this, so I'd assume that the number of apps for android are a little over inflated.

 

[jimski]

Apps are only important to people who post in these and other forums online. Smartphone enthusiasts so to speak. The rest, the overwhelming majority, have never, ever, downloaded an app.

Same people who buy a PC and never, ever, install anything on it. Except for the free toolbars and other malware that gets pushed onto machines.

We live in a very sheltered environment with no idea how typical consumers use their Smartphone. Realistically, the majority on those, "never add anything" people probably also don't respond to surveys, so the numbers are most likely worse than the results indicate.

Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express Pro

 

[Reflexx]

There are these things called widgets on Android, you know?



You can look at studies, or you can look at the real world. Take a look at the first iPhone you find amongst your friends and see if (s)he has apps on it. Or just take a look at what is the number one reason people are hesitant to switch to WP - missing apps. It's an apps world baby and we're just living in it.

So your argument is to ignore studies conducted by professional organizations, and instead rely on anecdotal evidence?

To use a phrase familiar to WP early adopters... "Really?"

 

[bear_lx]

I have access to any phone in Verizon's line up and still have a Trophy. There has to be something innovative or different here. No way the Trophy is a "me too" device. If it was I would have a S3 or something at this point.

hmmm. interesting... even i might be tempted by the sg3 at this point. primarily because i am impatient and tired of waiting.

 

[mb-dape]

Actually you are wrong, check this:
Study: Apps not that important to smartphone users | wpcentral | Windows Phone News, Forums, and Reviews

And before you say it's biased reporting because it's WPCentral this is based off a research study by pew and pew is a very credible source.

Thanks for the link, it was a interesting interview. But I dont see how you can say I am wrong? Actually it just proves my point;

SMARTPHONE owners:
68 % uses five or less apps every week
15 % uses more apps
17 % does not use any apps

Out of ALL adults with phones (smartphones, feature phones etc.) does 42 % have apps on their phones.

If you just read WPCentrals article it seems like they "forgot" the fact that the survey included all kind of phones, just not smartphones.

 

[eric12341]

Thanks for the link, it was a interesting interview. But I dont see how you can say I am wrong? Actually it just proves my point;

SMARTPHONE owners:
68 % uses five or less apps every week
15 % uses more apps
17 % does not use any apps

Out of ALL adults with phones (smartphones, feature phones etc.) does 42 % have apps on their phones.

If you just read WPCentrals article it seems like they "forgot" the fact that the survey included all kind of phones, just not smartphones.

Don't see how it proves your point. It says that the majority of smartphone users don't paint apps as an issue as much as you are making it.

 

[mb-dape]

Don't see how it proves your point. It says that the majority of smartphone users don't paint apps as an issue as much as you are making it.

I was responding to the guy who said that MOST smartphone users NEVER download or use apps. So he thought WP is superior because of some integrated social features. My point was that most people at least know how to download and use essentials like Facebook and Twitter.

 

[12Danny123]

Hey guys. This OP has invented something I call.....Bull****