Legacy PHones no Apollo Update, will get 7.8 update

[HeyCori]

Anyone who suggests that not updating current WPs to wp8 is not a big deal please answer this.

Is smartglass a big deal for microsoft and wp users?
Will wp 7.8 get smartglass?

I assume that smartglass will use native code.

....uhhhhh

SmartGlass is coming to both iOS and Android. As far as I know, neither OS shares a core with Windows 8.

 

[petersun21]

native code support

....uhhhhh

SmartGlass is coming to both iOS and Android. As far as I know, neither OS shares a core with Windows 8.

Do you understand what native code support means? Both OSes have native code support while wp 7.8 does not. Did I mention native code support in my post. Make some sense please.

 

[HeyCori]

Do you understand what native code support means? Both OSes have native code support while wp 7.8 does not. Did I mention native code support in my post. Make some sense please.

....uhhhhh

I see the argument you're trying to make but it's flawed. Microsoft demoed SmartGlass using a Lumia 900.

Hands-on with Microsoft's SmartGlass

 

[mb-dape]

Well, I think Nokias share price says it all.

When Nokias share price already have been free falling and most people thought it couldnt go much lower, this WP8 news brings it down an gigantic 11,4 % on the Helsinki Stock Market and over 11 % on Nasdaq OMX.

Strange, both WP8 and WP7.8 should be great news for Nokia Lumia owners, or? People doesnt seem to really agree with that...

 

[cckgz4]

You will not be able to run a WP8 app on WP7.X even if it doesn't need missing sensors.

Sent from my PI86100 using Board Express

Add the word "some" to your statement and then it'd be true

 

[naplesbill]

Cckgz4, you will not be able to run ANY apps made for WP8 on your WP7 device. That is the hard cold truth nobody wants to hear.

Sent from my PI86100 using Board Express

 

[cckgz4]

And you're flat out generalizing or lying. How do I know that? Cause I've heard Microsoft officials say that WP8 software will be easy for developers to make backwards compatible IF they do so. Of course apps that need certain hardware wouldn't work but that's another discussion. Its all in that video

 

[socialcarpet]

Anyone who suggests that not updating current WPs to wp8 is not a big deal please answer this.

Is smartglass a big deal for microsoft and wp users?
Will wp 7.8 get smartglass?

I assume that smartglass will use native code.

Are you seriously talking about a technology that they JUST introduced that is so far in beta that they wouldn't even let the press play with it?

You're complaining that a technology, which is barely out of the experimental stage and knowing Microsoft's record with timelines, probably won't see the light of day until the middle or end of next year ISN'T SUPPORTED BY CURRENT WINDOWS PHONES?

Seriously dude?

I hear in 2018 smartphones will be powered by hydrogen fuel cells. I'm pissed because Nokia didn't make the Lumia 900 forward-compatible with them.

 

[petersun21]

feasible vs not feasible

Are you seriously talking about a technology that they JUST introduced that is so far in beta that they wouldn't even let the press play with it?

You're complaining that a technology, which is barely out of the experimental stage and knowing Microsoft's record with timelines, probably won't see the light of day until the middle or end of next year ISN'T SUPPORTED BY CURRENT WINDOWS PHONES?

Seriously dude?

I hear in 2018 smartphones will be powered by hydrogen fuel cells. I'm pissed because Nokia didn't make the Lumia 900 forward-compatible with them.

Seriously dude? You know the difference between what is feasible and what is not. Or do you? SmartGlass requires no additional hardware, no finer resolution, and no NFC. It is just another app that is being developed.

 

[rockstarzzz]

Seriously dude? You know the difference between what is feasible and what is not. Or do you? SmartGlass requires no additional hardware, no finer resolution, and no NFC. It is just another app that is being developed.

Even if SmartGlass requires NOTHING other than a kiss of love, it is in a buggy beta stage that isn't even ready for upcoming OS.

If SmartGlass isn't ready for devs, press to even beta test, I don't see a point of worry why it isn't going to be on the current platform.

If a phone "must be" supported for 18 months, Lumia 900 (latest release April 2012) will be supported at least till 1st day of launch of WP8 i.e. Nov 2012 making it 7 months of support already. Won't Lumia 900 survive as a smartphone 10 more months with WP7.8 update?! - with or without SmartGlass?!

 

[canesfan625]

Cckgz4, you will not be able to run ANY apps made for WP8 on your WP7 device. That is the hard cold truth nobody wants to hear.

Sent from my PI86100 using Board Express

We wouldn't be able to use them regardless. Your argument is invalid.

Everything else is a matter of a simple port by means of replacing API calls at any rate.

7.x is not going to become irrelevant because of 8. People will still develop 7.x apps because of tango devices and because apps generally do not require native code.

8 apps will be things we wouldn't be able to use even if we had 8 anyway.

WP8 on current hardware would provide very little benefit

The issue is in everyones heads.

 

[mb-dape]

WP8 on current hardware would provide very little benefit

The issue is in everyones heads.

You are incorrect.

Of course I can accept that apps/games that are dependant on hardware will not work. Like NFC and better GPU.

But my dissapointment comes from the fact that there are so many software improvements that WP8 will get (in the first release or later) that would work on WP7 without problems.

Like notification center. Advanced network settings. Better volume control. Better Office apps. Better enterprise support. Better multitasking, background notifications. Better bluetooth support. Better privacy/security. And so on...

Things I didnt really expect, but was hoping for. I thought that WP7.5 (and updates) would be MS focus for the next years, so probably I would get some of them. Now just 10 months after the release and massive ad campaign by MS (in my country) the OS is phased out and I understand that it is most certain that my device will only get one update which is 7.8 and all we know is that it contains a new start screen.

To you fan boys that says that we who bought a device for what it could become and not for what it was are idiots, I ask you:

If you buy a top of line Windows PC, dont you expect it to run the latest OS and apps in at least a couple of years (except games)?

If you buy a newly released gaming console, dont you expect it to be supported with updates and games for a couple of years?

If I buy the most expensive WP smartphone (which is a small computer/entertainment device) why am I an idiot who expect something like that?

My HTC Titan costed more then a Xbox 360 when the 360 was released and my console has been supported for almost 7 years now. While Titans and WP7.5 support is being phased out within a year...

You say nobody except nerds care about being able to upgrade. How come MS did wait with the announcement until after the (last?) WP7.5 device (Lumia 900) was released? How come the Nokia share price took one of the deepest falls ever at the same time as the annoncement was made, even though the very promising WP8 was also revealed then?

But the most irritating thing is that the same fan boys that laughed at Android and iOS for having so badly written OSes that needed multicore, lot of RAM, GPU etc, are the same fan boys that now laughs at us users that actually believed them that this hardware wasnt necessary to run a modern smartphone OS.

 

[SnailUK]

But my dissapointment comes from the fact that there are so many software improvements that WP8 will get (in the first release or later) that would work on WP7 without problems.

Like notification center. Advanced network settings. Better volume control. Better Office apps. Better enterprise support. Better multitasking, background notifications. Better bluetooth support. Better privacy/security. And so on...

Whilst i agree on some of them, its plain obvious the multi-tasking & background notifications support will rely on the new multi-core architecture of the new kernel. Thus it makes sense the Notification center will probably not be an easy port either.

The privacy/security has been listed as working as part of the new secure bootloader, so again, i doubt WP7 will get a look in.

There are plenty of features i've seen which probably could be ported to 7.8, but as i read through the list of features, a lot of the bigger ones will probably be a pain. But then it could be like a house of dominos, so many of the features, rely on other features, which are WP8 only.

But then, if Microsoft are busy working on porting bits of WP8 back to WP7.8, what WP8 features should they be cutting, so they have time to do the porting?

 

[SnailUK]

But the most irritating thing is that the same fan boys that laughed at Android and iOS for having so badly written OSes that needed multicore, lot of RAM, GPU etc, are the same fan boys that now laughs at us users that actually believed them that this hardware wasnt necessary to run a modern smartphone OS.

IMHO, you are thinking a bit too small, a bit too phone, and not complete eco-system.

Everything else Microsoft are making (PC, console, tablet, etc) is multi-core. im sure every phone in a years time will be multi-core. Everything Microsoft make is going to be sharing the same Kernel. For anything requiring any sort of power, you need to write for a multi-core system. Microsoft are doing their best to make sure WP8 can get applications from other Microsoft platforms.

If developers have to start writing single core versions of applications for Phone, they won't bother until theres a huge marketshare. If they have to start doing huge amounts of optimisation for WP8, they wont bother.

Even forgetting Microsoft products, surely any well written powerful iOS/Android application these days is written for a multi-core processor. Matching the multi-core innards of the competition, will make it easier for developers to port applications to WP8.

 

[mb-dape]

IMHO, you are thinking a bit too small, a bit too phone, and not complete eco-system.

Everything else Microsoft are making (PC, console, tablet, etc) is multi-core. im sure every phone in a years time will be multi-core. Everything Microsoft make is going to be sharing the same Kernel. For anything requiring any sort of power, you need to write for a multi-core system. Microsoft are doing their best to make sure WP8 can get applications from other Microsoft platforms.

If developers have to start writing single core versions of applications for Phone, they won't bother until theres a huge marketshare. If they have to start doing huge amounts of optimisation for WP8, they wont bother.

Even forgetting Microsoft products, surely any well written powerful iOS/Android application these days is written for a multi-core processor. Matching the multi-core innards of the competition, will make it easier for developers to port applications to WP8.

Yes, you have a good point there.

There reason why old and low price Androids can run most apps is because their huge user base. Its worth the effort for the devs to optimise the apps for all different Android devices.

You have to remember that when released the WP8 user base will be 0. Win 8/ Win RT /WP8 can not run the same version of the apps, they need to be ported.

One way to encourage devs to do this would be to update existing gen 2 devices to WP8 to have a (small) user base to begin with.

And to ever gain a large market share from Android MS needs low price devices (at least half the price of Nokia 710). So the WP8 OS itself is probably quite scalable and the devs that port apps from Android already have written single core compatible versions.

So I dont think it is unlikely that there would be a place in the "8-ecosystem" for current gen 2 devices.

And I think it is much more important for the success of WP8 that it is easy porting apps from iOS and Android then porting from Win 8 and Win RT.

The apps I miss on my WP7 is not software from my Win 7/Win 8 computer. It is apps from iOS or Android.

The reason why Android pads doesnt sell compared to iPad is because Android pads just have ported phone apps while iPad has a large amount of its own apps developed for its platform.

 

[SnailUK]

You have to remember that when released the WP8 user base will be 0. Win 8/ Win RT /WP8 can not run the same version of the apps, they need to be ported.

They may not be 100% the same apps, But microsoft have been doing their utmost to make sure the changes between platforms are minimal.

One way to encourage devs to do this would be to update existing gen 2 devices to WP8 to have a (small) user base to begin with.

I've said this many times in many threads. I have no doubt Microsoft have WP8 running on WP7 hardware (there was a article on WPPowerUser over the weekend, saying they'd seen a HD7 running a WP8 build, although it disappeared the next day!)

I wouldn't be supprised if WP8 ran reasonably when just using one thing. The problem is, as you start to multi-task, it'll get progressively slower. Its all well and good giving Gen 1/2 hardware WP8, but if it runs like a snail, people won't be happy.

Maybe Microsoft should give people the choice. WP7.8, or WP8 with performance issues. But then, all they will get for months, is bad PR about all the issues people encounter on WP8 on WP7 hardware.

 

[theefman]

I wouldn't be supprised if WP8 ran reasonably when just using one thing. The problem is, as you start to multi-task, it'll get progressively slower. Its all well and good giving Gen 1/2 hardware WP8, but if it runs like a snail, people won't be happy.

Maybe Microsoft should give people the choice. WP7.8, or WP8 with performance issues. But then, all they will get for months, is bad PR about all the issues people encounter on WP8 on WP7 hardware.

Not getting into the update BS but why are so many stating with certainty that WP8 would have performance issues on WP7 hardware? Seems Tango phones like the 610 are proof that it is technically possible to engineer the OS for lower powered hardware. So why wouldnt this be possible with WP7 hardware? Unless the OS really is that bloated that it needs all that power?

And that makes the Tango phones existence interesting, what is their future since the experience on them is going to be even less like the WP that is going to be promoted all over the place when WP8 launches?

 

[petersun21]

WP8 bring little benefit to wp7? really?

Why are there people still arguing on MS behalf. Why MS is changing the kernel is because the old kernel is deficient. SUpport of multi core and nfc does not need a new kernel. Making a new kernel more compatible with windows 8 implies the new kernel is less compatible with wp7 ---> less chance that new apps will work on wp7. I seriously doubt those people are arguing on ms behalf are real users. They are from Microsoft. I had two titans.I just have one now. Sold one and bought an iphone 4s (unlocked through rebel4s). Going to buy another and sell another titan. I am leaving windows phone for good. Bought the titans for 6 months and it is going to be discontinued. It is a "good ecosystem"

 

[mb-dape]

They may not be 100% the same apps, But microsoft have been doing their utmost to make sure the changes between platforms are minimal.

Yes, and thats why I dont thinkt that MS "easy to port" argument will convience devs or user to get into WP8.

People dont want a downscaled version of Word or Photoshop on their phone. People dont want a upscaled version of phone apps on their tablets.

Of course its great that WP8 will have a lot in common with Win 8/Win RT, but to give WP8 a good start I think it is more important to make it easy for the devs to port apps from Android and iOS.

I've said this many times in many threads. I have no doubt Microsoft have WP8 running on WP7 hardware (there was a article on WPPowerUser over the weekend, saying they'd seen a HD7 running a WP8 build, although it disappeared the next day!)

I wouldn't be supprised if WP8 ran reasonably when just using one thing. The problem is, as you start to multi-task, it'll get progressively slower. Its all well and good giving Gen 1/2 hardware WP8, but if it runs like a snail, people won't be happy.

Maybe Microsoft should give people the choice. WP7.8, or WP8 with performance issues. But then, all they will get for months, is bad PR about all the issues people encounter on WP8 on WP7 hardware.

I dont think WP8 will be that bloated and heavy. If it would run like a snail on a device with 1,5 GHz and 512 MB (that runs the latest Android ICS with working multitasking), then it would not run even nearly smooth on a dual core with 512 MB either.

 

[HeyCori]

More fuel for the fire, I know, but it seems like everyone loves fire right now.

Here's Greg Sullivan, Senior Product manager for Windows Phone talking a bit more about the switch from 7 to 8.

Microsoft: We've only shown you a minority of consumer features in Windows Phone 8 so far - Pocket-lint

"The way we are thinking about this is that Windows Phone 8 is a generational shift that has an associated discontinuity that we don't expect to happen again soon," he said. "The headroom that we get from this new architecture is so significant that it provides us room to grow for a long time."

That headroom is in line with what you see on laptops and tablets today. In theory, Sullivan says, the Windows Phone 8 mobile operating system will be able to support processors with not just dual-core capability, but also those up to 64-cores.

But why the change now rather than three years ago when Windows Phone 7 was announced? Did the Windows Phone team make a mistake? Sullivan doesn't think so.

"We reset our mobile strategy in early 2009 and in late 2010 we delivered a product based on that approach. We went back to the drawing board and started over," Sullivan told us. "We didn't start over from an architecture point of view, but we went very 'low'. It did lots of things, but not what we have today with Windows Phone 8.

"We didn't [go with Windows architecture] because of a couple of dynamics that made it infeasible to do that at the time. The first is that Windows wasn't on ARM at that time. Could the phone team have down it? Yes I suppose, but that work hadn't been done yet.

"The other reason is that the work we've done on Windows Phone 8 and the processors are different in a meaningful way from the previous generation or the ones that we are shipping on today.

"At a risk of over simplifying it, the work on the SOCs [phone processors] today is hierarchy dominated by the modem chip and the apps processor is secondary to it, in the next generation that relationship is reversed and the apps processor is the boss."

But perhaps more importantly for Microsoft, seeing that Apple's iPhone was dominating the smartphone market, and Google's Android platform was starting to get traction, Microsoft didn't want to wait any longer.

"In 2009 it didn't seem a good idea to wait for multi-core processor support," Sullivan rationalises.