Lets show Google we're fed up with their bad treatment of us Windows Phone Users!

[ag1986]

Sorry, but people just don't get the issues here. I don't see any way how Google could have NOT banned the WP8 app in its current form.

Sequence of events as I understand it:

1. MS launches Youtube app breaking EVERY part of the Youtube TOS (no ads, allows download). Google sues and MS folds.

2. MS and Google collaborate on new app. MS' IE on WP8 is too broken to support HTML5 inline video (link:Internet Explorer 10 brings HTML5 to Windows Phone 8 in a big way), see

There are some minor differences between Internet Explorer 10 for Windows 8 and Internet Explorer 10 for Windows Phone that you need to be aware of. Internet Explorer 10 for Windows Phone does not support the following:

Inline video

This means that IE on WP8 opens video in its native media player rather than the browser. This is a problem because Google tracks how long each ad is watched (it's called Trueview video ads) and this cannot be done if WP8 plays natively rather than the browser. Thus they cannot track and report metrics to their advertisers and content publishers accurately. IF MS had bothered to implement a proper HTML5 spec, one that allowed video playback in Webview, there would be no problem. This is hinted at wherein David Howard says "YouTube app based on HTML5 would be technically difficult and time consuming".

Yes, because your browser's HTML5 implementation is screwed up!

Note that EVERY third-party client for YT uses HTML5. None have decompiled and reverse-engineered private APIs as MS did.

Finally. MS is whining that YT for Android and iOS don't have to use HTML5. Yes. What part of THIRD PARTY is hard to understand? Google does not have to abide by those conditions because they wrote the conditions. Tough cookies. Go fix IE10 first, then whine. After all that they unilaterally decided to release an app with YT branding, without Google's approval? What did they expect?

edit:

MS is not the only one that faced blockage over HTML5. Google blocked the app on Roku for the same reason: A9 Chip Inside The Roku 3 May Finally Allow For An Official YouTube Channel - Dan Rayburn - StreamingMediaBlog.com

 

[mgkeath]

Sorry, but people just don't get the issues here. I don't see any way how Google could have NOT banned the WP8 app in its current form.

Sequence of events as I understand it:

1. MS launches Youtube app breaking EVERY part of the Youtube TOS (no ads, allows download). Google sues and MS folds.

2. MS and Google collaborate on new app. MS' IE on WP8 is too broken to support HTML5 inline video (link:Internet Explorer 10 brings HTML5 to Windows Phone 8 in a big way), see

There are some minor differences between Internet Explorer 10 for Windows 8 and Internet Explorer 10 for Windows Phone that you need to be aware of. Internet Explorer 10 for Windows Phone does not support the following:

Inline video

This means that IE on WP8 opens video in its native media player rather than the browser. This is a problem because Google tracks how long each ad is watched (it's called Trueview video ads) and this cannot be done if WP8 plays natively rather than the browser. Thus they cannot track and report metrics to their advertisers and content publishers accurately. IF MS had bothered to implement a proper HTML5 spec, one that allowed video playback in Webview, there would be no problem. This is hinted at wherein David Howard says "YouTube app based on HTML5 would be technically difficult and time consuming".

Yes, because your browser's HTML5 implementation is screwed up!

Note that EVERY third-party client for YT uses HTML5. None have decompiled and reverse-engineered private APIs as MS did.

Finally. MS is whining that YT for Android and iOS don't have to use HTML5. Yes. What part of THIRD PARTY is hard to understand? Google does not have to abide by those conditions because they wrote the conditions. Tough cookies. Go fix IE10 first, then whine. After all that they unilaterally decided to release an app with YT branding, without Google's approval? What did they expect?

edit:

MS is not the only one that faced blockage over HTML5. Google blocked the app on Roku for the same reason: A9 Chip Inside The Roku 3 May Finally Allow For An Official YouTube Channel - Dan Rayburn - StreamingMediaBlog.com

Your points are certainly valid, however I see an easy path that Google could have taken. When they agreed to collaborate on an app, knowing full well what the limitations would be on the WP platform, they could have gone in with good faith, and actually gave WP users an option that they themselves refused to develop. It's all fine and good to say, we don't see the benefit in developing for the platform at this point in time, but MS was willing to commit the resources to do so. Why make it impossible when you agreed to work with them?

Google is, in no way, obligated to make/allow an app to be available, but that doesn't mean that they have to present roadblocks either. No one forced them to agree to collaborate, so why do so in a way that seems rather shady.

 

[ag1986]

Your points are certainly valid, however I see an easy path that Google could have taken. When they agreed to collaborate on an app, knowing full well what the limitations would be on the WP platform, they could have gone in with good faith, and actually gave WP users an option that they themselves refused to develop. It's all fine and good to say, we don't see the benefit in developing for the platform at this point in time, but MS was willing to commit the resources to do so. Why make it impossible when you agreed to work with them?

Google is, in no way, obligated to make/allow an app to be available, but that doesn't mean that they have to present roadblocks either. No one forced them to agree to collaborate, so why do so in a way that seems rather shady.

That's true as well - maybe after investigation Google simply found that IE10 on WP was just too inflexible to work? That or Google's engineers were not aware of the WP limitations before they went in? In all fairness, that does seem likely. In this case, what would you say that Google could do? They have rigid guidelines that are probably there for legal reasons - Sony BMG, Paramount etc could say we'll only allow our stuff on YT if you agree to make all apps able to track viewing correctly and give us our cut of the ad money as well.

So Google could have released data to MS about private APIs and metadata - that would again be a big IF because that kind of data is valuable. I mean, try asking MS for the WP source code. That also implies that everytime they decided to change those private APIs, they'd have to work with MS to change the WP app as well - and that doesn't seem like a path they want to go down.

My core point is that IF Microsoft had implemented HTML5 completely, there would not have been a leg for Google to stand on. Or if they had gone into a red-alert mode to update IE10 on WP to fix this, they probably could have gotten it done. Pull the Bing devs out for a month, have them all work on it, not like Bing is doing anything useful for them anyway. A delay there wouldn't hurt them.

 

[mgkeath]

That's true as well - maybe after investigation Google simply found that IE10 on WP was just too inflexible to work? That or Google's engineers were not aware of the WP limitations before they went in? In all fairness, that does seem likely. In this case, what would you say that Google could do? They have rigid guidelines that are probably there for legal reasons - Sony BMG, Paramount etc could say we'll only allow our stuff on YT if you agree to make all apps able to track viewing correctly and give us our cut of the ad money as well.

So Google could have released data to MS about private APIs and metadata - that would again be a big IF because that kind of data is valuable. I mean, try asking MS for the WP source code. That also implies that everytime they decided to change those private APIs, they'd have to work with MS to change the WP app as well - and that doesn't seem like a path they want to go down.

My core point is that IF Microsoft had implemented HTML5 completely, there would not have been a leg for Google to stand on. Or if they had gone into a red-alert mode to update IE10 on WP to fix this, they probably could have gotten it done. Pull the Bing devs out for a month, have them all work on it, not like Bing is doing anything useful for them anyway. A delay there wouldn't hurt them.

Once again, very valid points.

Of course, Google could solve this pretty easily by developing their own app for the platform. If a collaboration still didn't yield the result intended, maybe it's time for them to jump on board and put these issues to rest. However, as you mentioned, MSFT could also step up and do some work on their shortcomings.

 

[thomas wojcik]

I see it's up to 405 signatures, i guess that's just about all of us that use a windows phone. So what else is going on .....?

 

[ausernameneeded]

How about Microsoft starts blocking ad in web browser?

There is no question that Google would do whatever it takes, whether it's unprofessional or unethical, to kill Microsoft. What Google did to the YouTube app on WP shows that clearly. But it's a little bit surprising how hostile Google went given that the vast majority of its revenue is generated from web browsers running on windows platform. What if Microsoft builds an OS level ad blocker that blocks all ads in web browsers. It doesn't particularly block Google's ads and it allows user configuration so there is little possibility for Google to take it into court room. At the end of day, it's user's choice to block the ads. I'm sure most user would love to have an ad free web browsing experience. That would be like killing Google instantly. Sure it also hurts Microsoft's ads business. But ads business has never been, and will never be Microsoft's core business. On top of that, the search charm in windows 8.1 may enable Microsoft continue doing ads business as it's not technically a web browser. If I were Microsoft, I'd definitely do this. At least it will teach the Google a lesson so that it will come back to the negotiation and won't play like a 5 year old when issue rises.

 

[Cleavitt76]

... Note that EVERY third-party client for YT uses HTML5. None have decompiled and reverse-engineered private APIs as MS did. ...

Source?

I ask because I'm positive that you are full of crap. I can tell you for a fact that few if any third party YouTube apps on iOS and WP are built on HTML5 (I have no idea on Android). I can also state for a fact that lots of third party apps have reverse engineered the YouTube APIs.


HTML5 development is quite limited and inefficient compared to native code. It is generally a poor choice unless creating a cross platform application is a higher priority than anything else. In this case it's not since other platforms already have first party YouTube apps.


Also, IE10 on WP does support HTML5 video. It just doesn't support playing it inline. Safari on iOS doesn't either. It's not "broken." This is by design because it really doesn't make a ton of sense to watch video embedded in a webpage on such a small screen. Instead, the video is launched full screen.

I can sum up Google's faux logic very simply in Google's own [paraphrased] words as follows...

Google: "We aren't going to develop any Windows Phone apps because the platform is too puny and the revenue is not important to us."

... a short while later ...

Google: "Microsoft wrote a YouTube app for our mutual customers, but it only gives us a portion of the revenue that we just said we didn't care about so we are shutting down their app."

You have to do some serious mental gymnastics to reconcile those two positions.

 

[Cleavitt76]

So Google could have released data to MS about private APIs and metadata - that would again be a big IF because that kind of data is valuable. I mean, try asking MS for the WP source code. That also implies that everytime they decided to change those private APIs, they'd have to work with MS to change the WP app as well - and that doesn't seem like a path they want to go down.

Do you even know what an API or metadata is? Comparing that to sharing program/OS source code is absolutely ridiculous. The entire point of an API is to share data or services between programs. Metadata is just data that describes other data (like the format, length, or title of a video file for example). If you are going to provide an API for use by other programs you also have to provide documentation on how to use it. It's not meant to be secret, it's meant to share data. An API that programmatically says, "Play this advertisement video before you play the content video" is not sharing some special business secret. It's what Google wants the third party developer to do, but their own API is lacking that logic.

Basically, Google is criticizing MS for not playing some advertisements or similar, but Google's own public APIs do not make that info available (which they don't seem to care about for countless third party apps) and they refuse to provide access to APIs (public or private) that do provide the required info.

 

[cw1988]

Im confused....i have read a few posts in here stating we cant change the default search to google......but i can. Well i can change it in internet explorer, advanced settings then default search.

I understand we cant change default search when pressing the search button bit surely giving people the option to change it in ie is good?

 

[Kellzea]

Im confused....i have read a few posts in here stating we cant change the default search to google......but i can. Well i can change it in internet explorer, advanced settings then default search.

I understand we cant change default search when pressing the search button bit surely giving people the option to change it in ie is good?

People are ******** and love to moan. If you could change the entire os to an android ios wp meego Symbian Firefox Ubuntu full windows 7 and 8 hybrid with free space ship and automatic doughnut machine, people would still complain.

 

[bozza72]

i really couldnt give a toss what google does or does not do on windows phone, there are ample alternatives to use on windows phone you just have to look

 

[gollum18]

Do you remember the "scroogle" campaign?

Sent from the stars...