Lumia 650 GPS problem? Need help!

[Dano91]

I'm experiencing quite a serious problem with GPS background tracking apps. As a hiker I like to track my hikes and generate .gpx for later analysis at home. For this purpose I'm using an app called Navicomputer which can track my route in a background.

On a first hike with my new Lumia 650 I noticed that whenever I put my 650 in a pocket with a background tracking turn on, the gps signal will be lost until I put it out from the pocket again. Then the saved track would look like a straight line connecting point where I put it in and point where I put it out from pocket. Something like this:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=88EF201FCD841C6D!86400&authkey=!AIaeAY562kA-yYQ&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg

The red line is from my 650, the green one is from friend's phone which was behaving normally. This screenshot is just a small part from a whole day long hike, which is full of such problems, so it's not just some local drop-out.

Ok, so at first I thought that it's just a bug in an app, but this cannot be the case, since I'm using Navicomputer for some time now, previously with an old Lumia 620 on WP 8.1 and I never experienced such a problem. Moreover the same problem I did notice in another similar apps on 650.

Therefore my 2nd thought was that it's a problem in Win10M so I installed Win10 on my old Lumia 620 using Windows Insider, but no such problem with GPS signal occurred, so I think it has to be Lumia 650 specific problem.

And yesterday I did find out, that if I cover the place where antenna on 650 is located (top left side) with my hand, with Navicomputer in foreground, moving in a car and tracking turn on, after a few seconds tracking will stop (distance traveled will stop increasing even if I'm moving and no line will be drawn on map) BUT, and this is strange - location pointer in app still will be continuously updated and pointing to a correct position on a map, meaning that GPS signal is not totally lost.

From such a behavior I think this: whenever GPS accuracy falls below some level (because of hand or some other obstacle is blocking the signal) background tracking will stop until the accuracy is again restored.
So far I found only two apps which are immune to this problem - MS own Maps and an app called "GPS Computer" which also support background tracking. Why these two apps are immune and many others are not, I don't really know for now.

All of this was tested on builds .107, .218 and .318, all apps were fully updated, OS and firmware also updated. In policies apps running in the background was allowed. Phone was multiple times restarted, once even hard-reset and reinstalled with Windows Device Recovery Tool.

At this point, I want you guys to help me - can you pls try on your Lumias 650, preferably also with NaviComputer app if you are also experiencing same issues with GPS tracking? Maybe it would be interesting to try it also with Lumia 950 or other lumia phones..

_ _ _
TL&DR: When tracking your gps position in background (e.g. when running, hiking etc..) and your horizontal accuracy drops below ~20m, your position updates in app will stop and in saved .gpx you will see only a straight line connecting points where your gps signal has drop/reach ~20m horizontal accuracy. Can anybody confirm?

 

[Dano91]

Seriously, no one here has any problems with gps background tracking??

 

[Orlando Parkinson]

Have never used gps tacking before. :\

Posted from Windows Central's Universal App, Windows 10 (Lumia 650)

 

[Dano91]

Have never used gps tacking before. :\

Posted from Windows Central's Universal App, Windows 10 (Lumia 650)

It's quite simple to replicate - install NaviComputer app, start tracking, move app to background (you will get notification of tracking running in background), put your phone to pocket and go to work/shop/home/whatever, then open the app, stop tracking, save the track, send your saved .gpx file to OneDrive and then open it in MyGPSFiles

Now, do you see exact track as you were really moving/driving or are there some straight lines cutting through buildings, like this:

 

[bhaspence]

I love going for walks and hikes myself I have a lumia 550 and use Runtastic. Brilliant app that tracks by gps. Never had any problems with it and i love how it stores all the imformation on the phone and on it's website. It's become my second most useful app after Whatsapp

 

[Dano91]

Unfortunately Runtastic is not a solution for me because it doesn't support custom offline maps which i need on hikes.. :/

 

[Evgueni Iakovlev]

Yes, you are right. For the last month I have replaced three Lumia 650 one by one staying in hope that the next one will allow me to use the MAPS with voice guided navigation.
First time the voice guidance disappeared after installing the MAPS update. As I discovered later it can be fixed by changing to English (US) in all language internal settings. It took me 6 hard reset operations in order to locate the reason caused by the native MAPS update.
Second phone lost its GPS by itself after getting all possible updates. Hard reset didn't help and the phone was returned.
How surprised I was to find out that the third Lumia 650 has the same issue - The GPS has been lost after getting updates. After second hard reset I was running updates very carefully one by one and finally have located the enemy - the GPS was lost after updating the Network Services.
At the third hard reset MAPS was keeping working fine because I didn't allow that Network Services being updated. Working for about one hour and lost GPS signal once again for a short time - about two hours. Came back later. But on the next day, without being influenced by any update I got the same error message in MAPS - No GPS Signal!
In total I spent about 48 hours on hard resetting and talking to Microsoft tech reps, writing them back and force.
I have owned before 6 different Nokia Lumia phones under Windows 8.1 - and three of them got the same GPS issue but after working well for 2 and even 3 years.
This Lumia 650 has both software and hardware issues from the beginning, it is a real shame for Microsoft, poor guys...

 

[WesSchell]

Yes, you are right. For the last month I have replaced three Lumia 650 one by one staying in hope that the next one will allow me to use the MAPS with voice guided navigation.
First time the voice guidance disappeared after installing the MAPS update. As I discovered later it can be fixed by changing to English (US) in all language internal settings. It took me 6 hard reset operations in order to locate the reason caused by the native MAPS update.
Second phone lost its GPS by itself after getting all possible updates. Hard reset didn't help and the phone was returned.
How surprised I was to find out that the third Lumia 650 has the same issue - The GPS has been lost after getting updates. After second hard reset I was running updates very carefully one by one and finally have located the enemy - the GPS was lost after updating the Network Services.
At the third hard reset MAPS was keeping working fine because I didn't allow that Network Services being updated. Working for about one hour and lost GPS signal once again for a short time - about two hours. Came back later. But on the next day, without being influenced by any update I got the same error message in MAPS - No GPS Signal!
In total I spent about 48 hours on hard resetting and talking to Microsoft tech reps, writing them back and force.
I have owned before 6 different Nokia Lumia phones under Windows 8.1 - and three of them got the same GPS issue but after working well for 2 and even 3 years.
This Lumia 650 has both software and hardware issues from the beginning, it is a real shame for Microsoft, poor guys...

GPS issues have not gone away. My wife and I each have a L 650. Driving to a party this evening using Maps for navigation was literally impossible. The app would give accurate information for about 30 seconds, loose GPS contact, then freeze. The same thing happened trying to use my wife's phone. My phone is up to date on the slow ring, while my wife's phone is not part of the insider program. GPS/navigation is important. Any fix suggestions?

 

[Dano91]

The problem with Maps app is that it has a set limit for horizontal accuracy to be 20m or better. That means whenever a gps chip calculates your hor.acc. to be worse (>20m), you will get an error message "No GPS signal".
The only solution I can think of is to place your phone closer to a windshield or wherever you will get a better signal. You can watch your current hor.acc in app "GPS Satellite".

Of course, non of this would happen if L650 didn't have it's own problems with gps..

 

[PFSP]

GPS issues have not gone away. My wife and I each have a L 650. Driving to a party this evening using Maps for navigation was literally impossible. The app would give accurate information for about 30 seconds, loose GPS contact, then freeze. The same thing happened trying to use my wife's phone. My phone is up to date on the slow ring, while my wife's phone is not part of the insider program. GPS/navigation is important. Any fix suggestions?

Has anyone found a solution to this. My daughter has a 650, and I would like her to be able to use it for GPS when driving, but right now we experience the same issue of freezing and losing signal. Any help would be appreciated. Version number is 1607 build 10.0.14393.693

 

[PFSP]

The problem with Maps app is that it has a set limit for horizontal accuracy to be 20m or better. That means whenever a gps chip calculates your hor.acc. to be worse (>20m), you will get an error message "No GPS signal".

After re-reading this I tested the 650 last night with a different navigation app (instead of Maps). It never lost track or got stuck. So the GPS is fine, just not accurate enough to work with the Maps app it seems. So now it is a matter of finding the right navigation app. Will be trying the MapQuest app, in the next few days.

 

[TrickyDee42]

Not a big help, but the few times that I have used the Map app for navigation, it has always worked fine.
sorry that you guys are having so many problems.

On production build WM10

 

[PFSP]

Not a big help, but the few times that I have used the Map app for navigation, it has always worked fine.
sorry that you guys are having so many problems.

On production build WM10

My daughter's is the production build as well. It seemed to work well 10 months ago or so, but honestly she never used it much. But she is driving now so navigation has become more important...


But per my earlier post I have tried a few different navigation apps now.
My problem with some (MapFactor, Sygic) has been the search interface is not very good.
GPS Voice Navigation had trouble finding routes. found a rout from my house to a location. I then drove a few miles from that location and it could not find a route back to my house.
So I have settled on MapQuest which is effectively a Win 8.1 app. It seems pretty good so far but I have not tested it much, I do think the search interface is good. My daughter will be using it this weekend so I will report back with a better test next week sometime.

 

[Guzzler3]

Question: Have you downloaded the map for your location?

I ask this because when I first got my 650, it wasn't the greatest for turn by turn navigation, until I downloaded the map for my state. Then it actually started working, really well.

 

[Kunal Dudwadkar]

I have the same issue on my 650 with the Maps app. Most of the time it simply says cant find your location. And when it does, it just gets stuck until suddenly it decides ok lets move, before getting stuck again. Navigation is impossible for me because of this. Mainly the gps lock works super horrible for me even during a good day with good clear skies.

 

[PFSP]

I have the same issue on my 650 with the Maps app. Most of the time it simply says cant find your location. And when it does, it just gets stuck until suddenly it decides ok lets move, before getting stuck again. Navigation is impossible for me because of this. Mainly the gps lock works super horrible for me even during a good day with good clear skies.

Ok here is the summary of what I think is going on. And the problem is with the Maps app more than it is with the GPS (but I think the GPS is at fault some as well)

Per Dano91's post above about horizontal accuracy setting in the Maps app - the GPS is still working but may be having difficulty and so it reports an accuracy setting outside of the tolerance that Maps requires. Maps reports this condition as "No GPS" and stops tracking. The no GPS message is misleading as the location service is still working and can still track where you are. Now this is where I think the GPS in the 650 is to blame some, as my other phone works fine in same area with Maps. Maybe the GPS can be improved with a firmware update.

All that being said, you can still use the 650 for navigation, you just need to use a different app than Maps (which is a shame as I think Maps has the best interface of the ones I've tried). The other apps I tried continued tracking and never claimed a lost GPS signal.

The app I have settled on is MapQuest. my daughter used it while driving this weekend and it worked pretty well.
Pros
- Good voice navigation
- Good UI, single text searching for points of interest as well as addresses. Provided good relevant results

Cons
- When stating the exit to take it did not always include the direction (Exit 18, instead of saying Exit 18A) This caused my daughter to take wrong direction once. It did tell her the A/B designation but she told me that it stated it as she was passing the exit and she did not have time to react, so she took the "B" exit. I think this may be due to the accuracy of the GPS, this is where Maps would have given her a No GPS error, but MapQuest did the best it could and kept navigating. In the end this was not a big deal as the system recalculated for her.


I did try others
MapFactor, Sygic - I did not like the searching interface for these. You had to enter the state/city/address separately.
GPS Voice Navigation had trouble finding routes

I think the bottom line is. If Maps works for you - great. If not there are other options as far as navigation goes and you can pick the one that works best for you.

 

[Dano91]

Yep, as PFSP said, we are talking here about two, more or less, different problems:

One is app specific - Maps loses "GPS signal" whenever horizontal accuracy reported by chipset is worse than 20m. This can be easily confirmed with apps which are able to report back your h.accuracy, e.g. "GPS Satellite".

The second one is in my opinion firmware related. All gps chipsets should be able, by definition, reach h.accuracy 3m under ideal conditions (just a note here: this is a so-called CEP50 accuracy, or "circular error probable" which means that in 50% of measurements your position will be within reported h.accuracy, in other 50% it will be less accurate). For some unknown reason, L650 can reach only 7m never-ever better.
And it is possible that this problem is causing all h.accuracies reported back by chipset, to be offset by some margin, resulting in easier running in to that 20m threshold in Maps app.