Microsoft wants to punish me with DRM? Challenge accepted.

[Keith Wallace]

Just as a question - how many of you actually let your friends borrow your games often?

I can count - on one hand - how many times I've either borrowed or lent a game to a friend and I've been a 360 owner since November 2005. Even when I was a teenager I didn't lend out my SNES, Genesis, or N64 games... I just didn't do it. Mostly because games are expensive and I didn't want a friend to wreck my copy or be responsible for ruining a friend's game. Plus, on the N64, SNES, and Genesis I sure as heck wasn't going to lend a game out so my friends could delete my save file...

I gather a lot of the reaction on lending games to friends isn't so much that people did it very often, but they view it as something being 'taken away' (that they never did) as an infringement on their right as a gamer. Similar to Sony removing the ability to install Linux on the PS3. I'm sure there was a MINUSCULE amount of users that actually took advantage of that feature. But, once they made that announcement people were in an uproar about it.

As of today, my brother-in-law has had my copy of Fallout 3 at his house for probably 3 months or more (he doesn't play it much). My cousin has my copy of Black Ops II, and has for a few weeks now (he left his copy at a friend's and is too lazy to go get it). I don't let people borrow my games a LOT, but I let them do it for long stretches of time, simply because I am not playing that particular game at that particular moment in time. That, and my friends to whom I'd lend games to in the past are in the military and nowhere near me (one is 6+ hours away, the other is at-sea).

 

[absonj]

Ok, my two cents in. I don't usually let folks borrow my games, because its too easy to loose, scratch, or have some other catastrophe occure. With that said, I have been blessed to be able to purchase, on occasion, an extra copy so that a friend who may not be able to afford the game can jump online and the two of us can play co-op. I also do the same on a more extended level with my kids. I do realize that I am an exception, not the norm.

Now, from my understanding is that you will be able to let up to 10 friends or family borrow your game? I don't know exactly how that will work, is it only on the primary account, or can your friend play the newest Halo at his house off your copy while you play a different game at your home? I think its a wait and see what happens thing.

I am actually looking forward to being able to stick ALL my games on the cloud and play them where-ever I go. I take the X with me whenever I go out of town, and often times the wife stays home. I will probably have to get two X1's since the wife and I will play online or just use the Live account to chat. Thats another reason to buy more than one copy of a particular game. So if we are able to 'borrow' like I hope, I will actually save money!

 

[Ridemyscooter86]

What I don't really understand is why everyone is bashing MS about the 24 hour internet check-ins and the used game policy but everyone automatically trusts Sony (one of the worst companies in the past when it comes to DRM). I mean, all sony has said is that its up to the publishers to enforce DRM if they choose to or not, and my guess is that ALL of the publishers are going to enforce DRM. In some ways I could actually see it being worse on the PS4 because Sony hasn't set any limits about what the publishers can do, so if they want to do something draconian, like what EA did for sim city where you can't even play the game without a constant internet connection, then by all means, EA could very well enforce that policy on all of their games.

I guess personally the reason why the DRM issue for the Xbox One doesn't bother me is because I'm a PC gamer and I've been using steam for years and you can't share games either and even though its offline check-ins are once a week, its only mildly better than once a day for the Xbox One. Also, I guarantee you that Sony won't allow you to share digitally purchased games, nor does anyone really for that matter of fact, but I don't think people in general realize how quickly physical media is dying: I mean, and this is just in my own case, but I think the last time I actually bought a disc for a game was about a year ago, and thats probably it...

The truth is that sony played their cards right when it came to the PR so they look like the heroes of gaming right now, but I don't see why everyone is automatically trusting them and saying that everything is going to be fine when they have left the DRM to the Publishers. Remember that this is coming from a company that has installed rootkits into people's computers with out them knowing about it and the same company that offered linux support on their last console and then about 2 years after the PS3 launched, they came out with an update that dropped support. What I'm trying to say is given sony's track record, how do you know that in a years time they won't give the PS4 an update and now you can't share used games, it sounds absurd, but remember sony has done stuff like this in the past too.

 

[ninjaap]

Nintendo: If devs are worried about used game sales, they should make better games | Polygon

Oh snap....

 

[NaNoo123]

Sony may be leaving it up to publishers but I'd be very surprised if any bother with single player online drm.
If they do, people can just not buy those games.
Single player/offline games publishers will take the hit and push digital distribution as quickly as possible.
Its one of the reasons they will push cloud integration wether its needed or not in single player.

 

[curseoftheninja]

The truth is that sony played their cards right when it came to the PR so they look like the heroes of gaming right now, but I don't see why everyone is automatically trusting them and saying that everything is going to be fine when they have left the DRM to the Publishers.

I totally agree with this. Microsoft is painted as some money-hungry evil corporation trying to nickel-and-dime you. I see Microsoft abbreviated as M$ on many forums. And Sony isn't a money-hungry corporation? They have gone back on promises in the past; it boggles my mind that so many people instantly trust them.

I actually think that much​ of the anger directed at Microsoft is less about DRM and more about "authentic gamer" vs "casual gamer." The "hardcore" loathe the Kinnect, for it is for casual kiddies. TV? For casual kiddies. I'm a GAMER. Like any sub-culture, they don't like posers. By Microsoft broadening its user base, the "hardcore" will be lumped in with the poser casuals. And that cannot do! Just look at other sites with forums bashing XBO because it has shooters. Shooters are for 'bros' that play Call of Duty, not REAL gamers. To me, it is more of an "us" vs. "them" attitude.

I want the console that does the most: games and entertainment. That's why, whenever I do get a console, it'll be XBO.

 

[Reflexx]

The subculture is weird.

 

[Laura Knotek]

I totally agree with this. Microsoft is painted as some money-hungry evil corporation trying to nickel-and-dime you. I see Microsoft abbreviated as M$ on many forums. And Sony isn't a money-hungry corporation? They have gone back on promises in the past; it boggles my mind that so many people instantly trust them.

I actually think that much​ of the anger directed at Microsoft is less about DRM and more about "authentic gamer" vs "casual gamer." The "hardcore" loathe the Kinnect, for it is for casual kiddies. TV? For casual kiddies. I'm a GAMER. Like any sub-culture, they don't like posers. By Microsoft broadening its user base, the "hardcore" will be lumped in with the poser casuals. And that cannot do! Just look at other sites with forums bashing XBO because it has shooters. Shooters are for 'bros' that play Call of Duty, not REAL gamers. To me, it is more of an "us" vs. "them" attitude.

I want the console that does the most: games and entertainment. That's why, whenever I do get a console, it'll be XBO.

The subculture is weird.

In some circles, the only "authentic gamer" is a PC gamer who builds his/her own custom gaming rig.

 

[Mystictrust]

I totally agree with this. Microsoft is painted as some money-hungry evil corporation trying to nickel-and-dime you. I see Microsoft abbreviated as M$ on many forums. And Sony isn't a money-hungry corporation? They have gone back on promises in the past; it boggles my mind that so many people instantly trust them.

Why haven't I seen Sony abbreviated as $ony? I at LEAST expected to see it in the comments somewhere on The Verge's article about PS4 requiring PS+ subscription for online game play... but nope. People were just like, "Ah well, PS+ is cool anyway, no biggie" - even if those same people were using it a few months ago as a point to attack how "lame" it is that "M$" charges for what should be free. Hmph.

$ony has changed their minds and pissed off people plenty of times, but it's just not on the forefront of people's minds.**In the interest of not trying to start some anti-Sony bash, I've removed my mentions of some of their discretions, as they're not necessary** Anyway, play a few cards right with PR and everyone's back to painting Microsoft as the bad guy.

And I totally, 100% agree with that sub-culture you mentioned. It's a bit crazy how that whole thing works. Wouldn't an authentic gamer be one who played a variety of games that interested him or her? What kind of gamer am I that can play a game of Crackdown, switch to Skyrim, play some Battlefield 3 online, maybe a little old school Battlefield: Bad Company, and then play Viva Pinata? I enjoyed myself jumping around at a friend's house on his Kinect, playing several of those crazy obstacle course type games side by side - what am I now? And then if I go pop in some Call of Duty and log 6 straight hours with my headset, barking out commands with a bunch of teammates? People are weird.

I'm a 30 year old guy who likes video games. I don't quite understand this sub-culture war thing... okay, I would call someone a "casual gamer" if all they played was stuff like Angry Birds or puzzles games, and the occasional Dance Central or whatever... but I suppose that's just to classify them as being into the "lighter" games and not the really complex, "deep" games. They're still a gamer, and both systems casual to all kinds of gamers. I mean, don't we all win?

 

[Mystictrust]

In some circles, the only "authentic gamer" is a PC gamer who builds his/her own custom gaming rig.

And the most vocal of those are downright some of the most annoying, elitist gamers ever. Constantly putting down manufacturers, gamers and their choice of system and games for it. Console gaming serves just as much of a purpose as PC gaming, they need to get off their high horses.

 

[Ridemyscooter86]

I am a gamer and personally, I like the PC the best because I feel like its the most diverse. I mean you have essentially a whole genre of games, like RPS, and MMO that don't really exist/aren't popular on consoles. I also much prefer mouse and keyboard for FPS as its much more accurate than a controller, but I much prefer a controller for action/adventure/3rd person games as it was designed for it, with my pc, I can have both, I just plug my xbox controller into my pc and it works instantly.

PC gamers always brag and call it "true" gaming because its more hardcore than a console...what I mean by it is the pc game devs are always pushing graphics to its max limit and that a gaming PC is something that costs a lot more than a console does. Most PC gamers or a very big chunk of them, like me, build their own PCs for gaming. What I've come to realize is that they all offer different experiences, I love video games, and there are a lot, like FF, Halo, MGS, for example that aren't on PC and most likely never will be (yes those franchises have had a game or two on PC but are not games that are regularly ported to PC). Thats why I like to own a PC and a console so I can get all the games, and not just games that only appear on console only or PC only.

As for what I'm going to do with the console wars: I'm going to wait. The biggest thing I'm most excited with the PS4 and the Xbone is that they are using x86 processors meaning, one can hope anyways, that pc ports will no longer be completely half-a**ed like they have been for years now. Some companies, like ubisoft, and yes EA, usually do a pretty good job porting games from console to PC, but then you get abominations, like Dark Souls, which was a fantastic game mired by a crappy port. Sure it was playable but explain to me why my PC game only runs at 720p resolution and maxes at 30fps...

I'll wait because I'll go with whomever has the better exclusives, right now the xbone exclusives look a little better but that doesn't mean that sony doesn't have good looking ones in the pipeline either...

 

[Mystictrust]

I also much prefer mouse and keyboard for FPS as its much more accurate than a controller, but I much prefer a controller for action/adventure/3rd person games as it was designed for it, with my pc, I can have both, I just plug my xbox controller into my pc and it works instantly.

Nobody can deny the superior precision in gaming with a mouse, and a keyboard allows for a large array of easy-to-access features at your fingertips. I have a copy of Skyrim for my PC (also one for my Xbox, but I bought that one first) as well as a receiver so my wireless Xbox 360 controller works on my computer. Skyrim looks FANTASTIC on my PC... not that I can afford to crank it to ultra settings or anything (video cards are expensive). The mods available for it are out of this world.

Consoles have their advantages as well, in a completely different subset: Everyone in every game on one console is united into one multiplayer network, communication is seamless across that network both in-game and out (without ensuring both parties have the same messaging service, as an example), games generally always "just work" without having to check specs or have high enough specs to run, unified services all under one roof. Xbox One is implementing game sharing, and that's something Steam doesn't have (as an example). I would argue that it's easier to just pick up and play, etc. etc. I'm not going to bother listing any more, but I also know there are tons of alternative or similar advantages for the PC. This is why I game on both, and I will be picking up Dishonored for the PC soon - looking forward to playing it. I hope my system can handle it honestly, I've been having some issues playing StarCraft 2 - I think some things are starting to die or are just too old to run some of this stuff (I built this machine myself in 2008)

My current best setup for voice chat through StarCraft II is Skype.. I keep it open on a separate laptop with one or two friends I am playing alongside, also on Skype, with StarCraft II on my desktop PC and a headset on one ear so they can't hear my game and don't get distracted. Perfect

 

[HeyCori]

I guess personally the reason why the DRM issue for the Xbox One doesn't bother me is because I'm a PC gamer and I've been using steam for years and you can't share games either and even though its offline check-ins are once a week, its only mildly better than once a day for the Xbox One. Also, I guarantee you that Sony won't allow you to share digitally purchased games, nor does anyone really for that matter of fact, but I don't think people in general realize how quickly physical media is dying: I mean, and this is just in my own case, but I think the last time I actually bought a disc for a game was about a year ago, and thats probably it...

The death of physical media brings up another interesting point, infrastructure. Let's not forget that online entertainment has become just as important to console owners as the games themselves.

Microsoft: entertainment overtakes multiplayer gaming on Xbox | The Verge

Also keep in mind that the PS3 is the #1 device for streaming Netflix. It was also predicted that in 2012, online movie/music streaming would surpass physical discs. Consumers are exploiting non-gaming features and they're doing so in large numbers. I believe this E3 proved Microsoft is still all about the games, however, Microsoft wants to cater to the other very large portion of the market that wants more than just games. In time, as services improve, as internet continues to spread to rural areas and developing countries, Microsoft will have the infrastructure already in place to take advantage of new customers. They will already have distribution deals in place, rules to govern content and will have formed all the necessary alliances to make their system a success. Microsoft is one of the few companies ballsy enough to take bad press in order to gain long term success. It's the same strategy they're using with Windows 8. Eventually mobile APUs will reach the point where a tablet is the only computer a general consumer needs to buy because they will be powerful and battery efficient. Microsoft designed an OS to be ready for the future. The Xbox One is designed to usher in a new digital age. That does not make DRM awesome and I'm still not enthusiastic about it. However, I will adapt and move on. There is a bigger picture here and the DRM, while annoying, still serves a purpose. The sun is setting on physical media and Microsoft wants to be there when consumers and the infrastructure is ready. Sony may have won the PR fight but it remains to be seen if Sony can adapt to a world where consumers want more streaming content and services.

 

[jlzimmerman]

People screaming about DRM and online checks every 24 hours funny. PC gamers have been in this realm (as I mentioned in another post) for years. BFD. If M$ can keep up or stay close to Sony as far as sales you will see more exclusives on XB1 because developers/publishers are going to be more lucrative on the console that keeps more strict tabs on their licenses.

My number one concern with the new consoles were used games, because that's 90% of what I play. But with M$ stating you can still sell and buy used games via participating retailers, AND trade used games over BXL, AND trade with friends as long as they're on your friends list, you're ok. Problem solved for me. The extra $100 for the console will be worth it considering it will be spread over the life cycle of the console (6-8 years or more).

People are just misinformed because M$ has done a typical terrible job with customer relation communication. Last night I corrected my brother-in-law and his son who said the PS4 will play their PS3 games. Ummmm, no, and I showed him sources. And then he proceeded to say you can't play used games on the new xbox. Ummmmm, no, and I showed him sources.

 

[DoyouFanBoyBro]

I agree with you man, already pre ordered mine

 

[Keith Wallace]

People screaming about DRM and online checks every 24 hours funny. PC gamers have been in this realm (as I mentioned in another post) for years. BFD. If M$ can keep up or stay close to Sony as far as sales you will see more exclusives on XB1 because developers/publishers are going to be more lucrative on the console that keeps more strict tabs on their licenses.

My number one concern with the new consoles were used games, because that's 90% of what I play. But with M$ stating you can still sell and buy used games via participating retailers, AND trade used games over BXL, AND trade with friends as long as they're on your friends list, you're ok. Problem solved for me. The extra $100 for the console will be worth it considering it will be spread over the life cycle of the console (6-8 years or more).

People are just misinformed because M$ has done a typical terrible job with customer relation communication. Last night I corrected my brother-in-law and his son who said the PS4 will play their PS3 games. Ummmm, no, and I showed him sources. And then he proceeded to say you can't play used games on the new xbox. Ummmmm, no, and I showed him sources.

Yes, people tolerate Steam, but that's because it's VERY rare that you have to pay $60 for a game after a couple of months. There is usually a sale shortly after launch. For example, I got Skyrim used on my 360 for $55. Not too long after that, it went on-sale on Steam, to coincide with the release of the game's PC Creation Kit. It was on-sale for $30 or $40, and it was such a good deal that I almost bought the game a second time, so I could experience player-made content on PC. I ended up deciding against it, but my point is that Steam offers great deals 100% of the time, which is why it's tolerated.

Microsoft MIGHT take the same steps on the new Xbox, we will see. However, I won't give them credit for emulating Steam until I see them doing it. But also note that the ability to "trade with friends as long as they're on your friends list," is limited to a single transaction. The person must be on your friends list for 30 days to borrow the game, and it can only be borrowed once. Now, this 10-person family concept sounds like it could be a sharing free-for-all, and it will be a great feature, if it happens.

I agree with you, though. People (myself included) are upset because Microsoft won't give them a reason not to be. They're LETTING the media throw gas on the fire, and they won't even grab an extinguisher. It's hard to not voice displeasure with their actions when they aren't even trying to defend them (and "buy a 360 if you don't like it, this is the future," isn't a legitimate response). If they want to earn goodwill and not get attacked by those on the Internet, point out things like the 10-person "family" that allows unchecked sharing of games, to significantly lower software costs for consumers.

It's hard to give Microsoft any benefit of the doubt when they elected to point out all of the major negatives (the check-in, the cost, and the DRM), but not highlight the good stuff (like this sharing idea) with so many colors of highlighter markers that it makes 7 rainbows. They're allowing themselves to be attacked, when they should be taking the route that they are with windows Phone ads now--show off the benefits and features you can't get anywhere else.

 

[MFmonster]

I think its the mentality of the consumers. They're not ready for downloads only.

The strange thing is, like OP mentioned, all our devices that include ipads/surfaces, phones, xbox and ps3 games and applications we cannot resell or trade in. The one thing MS did different is given everyone the option unlike the current state and devices, to trade, sell, or borrow. But, there will never be a "WOW, the new Xbox games I download I can resell now!"

 

[Mystictrust]

The one thing MS did different is given everyone the option unlike the current state and devices, to trade, sell, or borrow. But, there will never be a "WOW, the new Xbox games I download I can resell now!"

wait hold on. Is that confirmed somewhere? Will I actually be able to sell digitally downloaded games that I never purchased the disc for??

 

[gsquared]

OP: If you are buying both consoles then wth's with the wall of text?

 

[HeyCori]

The man behind Gears of War comes out against used games. Says the current business model can't support ballooning cost of development.

IGN News: Cliff Bleszinski Speaks Out On Used Games - IGN NEWS - IGN Video