My last scare about buying a RT tablet

[tcedwards]

Hello
I'm interested in a tablet and I have a WP8 device. So I only want a windows tablet. I want the 2520, but I'm scared to buy now. I've heard that the WP os and the RT os are going to merge eventually. Since WP is more popular is would likely win out over RT. So it would be upgraded to larger screens. I'm assuming this would become the touch interface on future Windows 8 computers and tablets and RT will be fazed out, living MS with two OS's, WP and Windows 8. I'm scared that RT tablets will not get this upgrade to the future WP tablet OS. Am I alone it this? Do you think RT tablets today will be upgraded to this future unified tablet/phone OS?

I want the 2520, and if ima spend 650 (plus case) for it I want it to last at least 2 years, idk it to get stuck on a old OS that people would stop developing for.

 

[vaultsurvivor]

Nothing but personal opinion here but I don't think Microsoft could afford to abandon its installed base by ignoring RT if and when its EOL'd. Microsoft have just released the Surface 2, and let Nokia release the 2520... I have a feeling that as phones get more powerful theyll try to amalgamate the best of WP and RT; maybe running the same base code & app stores, but with a slightly different interface... Android is technically the same across all devices, yet is still functionally different on tablets.

 

[vaultsurvivor]

Im looking at January sales so im hoping it lasts too lol!

 

[angusdegraosta]

The hype comes from tech sites who favor Samsung and Apple. They had a field day contorting Julie Larson-Green's statement... I wrote about this very topic:

http://angusdegraosta.blogspot.com/2013/11/surface-2-and-sharks.html

I'm sure the 2520 and Surface 2 will get updates.

 

[freestaterocker]

Nothing but personal opinion here but I don't think Microsoft could afford to abandon its installed base by ignoring RT if and when its EOL'd. Microsoft have just released the Surface 2, and let Nokia release the 2520... I have a feeling that as phones get more powerful theyll try to amalgamate the best of WP and RT; maybe running the same base code & app stores, but with a slightly different interface... Android is technically the same across all devices, yet is still functionally different on tablets.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I was one of the many who made the "MS can't afford to abandon its installed base" argument when WP7 was on its way out. And there were many before me who made the same argument when Windows Mobile was on its way out... I wouldn't count on anything.

 

[vaultsurvivor]

WP7 was abandoned because of its base code, whereas it seems ms are making a conscious effort to bring all the os's together at the mo. I don't know, i might be wrong, I just think that the rt platform is too good to abandon.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

WP7 was abandoned because of its base code, whereas it seems ms are making a conscious effort to bring all the os's together at the mo. I don't know, i might be wrong, I just think that the rt platform is too good to abandon.

I think that you are right (RT platform too good to abandon) and wrong (MS won't abandon it).

I may sound like a broken record, but I look back to the Zune as a forecast of what the fate of the Surface will be. If there is a Surface 3, it will be the last generation. Yeah, people say that times are different... but Microsoft is the same.

The convergence of Windows Phone and Windows RT is as official as any rumor gets. The reality is that Windows RT is far closer to Windows 8 than to Windows Phone. If such a convergence takes place between RT and WP, it will result in a totally gimped tablet... aka 10.6" smartphone.

 

[Chris_Kez]

The reality is that Windows RT is far closer to Windows 8 than to Windows Phone. If such a convergence takes place between RT and WP, it will result in a totally gimped tablet... aka 10.6" smartphone.

What would make it "gimped"?

 

[AndyCalling]

No. Devices, including phones, are getting more powerful not less. Gradually they will move towards putting the successor to RT on phones. Why would they keep the OS designed for low powered devices (phones) and migrate it to tablets, cutting them down? Weird logic. Clearly phones will evolve to the point where they needn't have a cut down OS, just one without a desktop. Why do you think MS have been coddling RT? It is the mobile OS of the future and they know it. MS are playing the long game, and though they were slow to the Smartphone OS market they will be first to the Nextgen Smartphone/tablet OS and will completely overshadow iOS and Android which are just phone OSs at heart. Big things coming. WP is just a transitional OS and a place to grow the comms side. That's all that will come over to RT eventually. Well, that, Cortana and the odd feature that proves popular. Though I love WP, I can't wait for it to die and be replaced.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

What would make it "gimped"?

In order to merge/converge WP and Windows RT, Microsoft would need to severely gut most of RT. Resources on a smartphone are much less than a tablet. A lot of the functionality in RT is not needed on a phone. If they obtain true convergence it will be to the lowest common denominator, the phone. If they keep tablet-specific functionality in this converged OS then that is excess baggage that isn't helpful on a smartphone.

AndyCalling makes an interesting point however. I'd tend to agree if Microsoft had a track-record of being that forward thinking. Microsoft has been talking about convergence for decades. The closest they got was using the word "Windows" in their operating system names.

In contrast, Apple will most likely achieve such a convergence (iOS + OSX) within the next 5 years.

 

[vaultsurvivor]

What makes you think ms cant do this in the next couple of years? I very much agree with andycalling, i think well see an amalgamation of rt/wp released (maybe as windows 9?) in the next few years. Phones are getting stupidly powerful for their size now (quad core/2gb of ram... Remember when ram was measured in mb? On desktops? Ahh, win 98...), and I can see the next iteration removing the rt/wp designation altogether, and just having exclusive features for just the tabs (like snapping apps and full ie available). Again, this is all pure guesswork, but with my "if i was in charge" hat on, its what id like to see. Plus it would fit wit ms's three screens vision... What next, full on windows on the xbone lol?!

 

[AndyCalling]

The difference between a 7 inch tablet with an LTE modem and a mobile phone is 1 inch and a concept. The convergence is next gen, and not a great distance away.

 

[RTGent]

Change is good
Change is a constant
Technology is not for the fearful

 

[AndyCalling]

Change is good
Change is a constant
Technology is not for the fearful

Change can go either way and is peppered with risk.
Change is variable.
Technology is regularly used successfully by the fearful.

Aphorisms are often not thought through.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

What makes you think ms cant do this in the next couple of years? I very much agree with andycalling, i think well see an amalgamation of rt/wp released (maybe as windows 9?) in the next few years. Phones are getting stupidly powerful for their size now (quad core/2gb of ram... Remember when ram was measured in mb? On desktops? Ahh, win 98...), and I can see the next iteration removing the rt/wp designation altogether, and just having exclusive features for just the tabs (like snapping apps and full ie available). Again, this is all pure guesswork, but with my "if i was in charge" hat on, its what id like to see. Plus it would fit wit ms's three screens vision... What next, full on windows on the xbone lol?!

What makes me think that? Microsoft's track record.

I've learned to "bet WITH the streak" because you'll only be wrong once. :smile:

 

[anon(5348756)]

I wouldn't be scared about a W10 update if I were you. That will most likely happen as MS is preparing the hybrid WP/WRT version, so it won't matter if it's installed on a phone or on a tablet. Literally they'll be the SAME windows version. So you should be good as far as that goes.

However, as a Surface RT and later on Surface 2 owner - still use it everyday - I would advise against getting an RT device at this point. When I got mine, the future seemed brighter but after all this time it's clear that any future tablets MS releases will be Intel based - as there's virtually no advantage to using ARM anymore, Atom chips have equal or better battery life now and you get access to all x86 chips. For the same or less money than a Surface 2 you could get, say a Dell 11 3000 - which I've been eyeing - that has pretty decent hardware. The screen is 768p but it's still a decent IPS touchscreen and you can swap the 500GB for a cheap 80gb SSD (or a mega cheap 32GB or 64GB SSD and have the same capacity as the Surfaces). Sure it'll be a bit heavier but it's worth the trade-off: it's already faster than the Surface 2 and you get access to all x86 apps you want/need. If you spend a bit more, you can get a Yoga 2 11 and call it a day - that's an excellent machine that just suffers a bit with battery life.

Personally, I feel a bit duped with purchasing my Surfaces because they feel quite abandoned by MS, as in they get minimal support. They certainly no longer feel as these premium devices that MS will take care of. I'll most likely hold out until Windows 10 and buy an x86 convertible 2 in 1 then, as the next Cherry trail Atom CPUs will be a big improvement over what's out there now.

 

[tgp]

WP7 was abandoned because of its base code, whereas it seems ms are making a conscious effort to bring all the os's together at the mo. I don't know, i might be wrong, I just think that the rt platform is too good to abandon.

From what I understand, WP7 was abandoned in part because of the small user base. It would have been technically possible to update WP7 devices to WP8, but it would have been more hassle than what it was worth, especially considering it had relatively few users.

Windows RT also has a small user base. It never did sell well. No new RT devices are coming that we know of. This in my mind adds to the possibility that it may be dropped, although I hope that Microsoft does the right thing and at least supports existing devices.

 

[link68759]

From what I understand, WP7 was abandoned in part because of the small user base. It would have been technically possible to update WP7 devices to WP8, but it would have been more hassle than what it was worth, especially considering it had relatively few users.

No, not really. While you might be able to get WP7 devices to run WP8 with enough effort, they likely wouldn't run it very well, if the HD2 is any indication. However the bigger reason WP7 was left behind is because Microsoft established a list of required hardware features for WP8, which no WP7 device has. Biggest on that list is hardware level encryption. Many WP7 devices have had their boot loader unlocked- with such a device they could decrypt the WP8 ROM, look around unopposed and find exploits that could ultimately compromise the security of our WP8 devices.

If Microsoft were to ignore performance and security concerns to try and bring WP7 devices up to WP8, the next hurdle is getting every OEM to rewrite the firmware of every model WP7 device to work with a COMPLETELY new infrastructure... This would never happen.

 

[anon(5348756)]

Well explained link68759. Also, don't forget about the different kernels: WP8 would have required flashing of any WP7, which is an inherently risky procedure and it wasn't worth it to go through all the support trouble. Beside, Microsoft always knew they would most likely dump the WP7 Windows version (was it embedded? or it's something else, I forget... I think it was Windows CE which is not really windows at all). After WM6.5 they had to create a fully new platform and while they wanted to use the NT core, their work to bring this down to mobile wasn't even halfway done. So they used the CE version which they were able to easily make work on mobile, because they needed to have something on the market, as they were already 3 years late compared to the iPhone.

Meanwhile, work kept progressing on bringing NT kernel down to mobile, which they finally had ready for WP8, thus the need to break and kind of start all over again support wise. That's also why all WP8 devices will be updated to W10, because they're both already using the NT kernel so the update won't be a big deal technically. Ever since WP8 our phones have been 33% code-parity with "big" windows, while with WP8.1 we got to 75% code-parity. With windows 10 we'll be at, you guessed it, 100% or somewhat close to that full code-parity (I wish I could give you a link to read more in depth, I've read so many things over the past couple years + podcasts with Paul Thurrott and Mary Jo Foley, I no longer know where I've gotten my info... but this is 100% correct, I assure you - then again you don't really have to trust me I guess :sweaty. UPDATE - Actually I just remembered there was an excellent article about WP history on WMPoweruser earlier this fall. Check it out, A history of Windows Phone: the road to Threshold.

Also, to follow up on the OP about Windows RT, remember RT uses the NT core, so it's in the exact same situation as WP - you're fine, you'll be supported, as it's technically not complicated to upgrade using the same kernel. The versions will be different and we might "lose" the desktop on the ARM Surfaces - not really much loss at all as long as they make a decent Files app - but we'll easily be supported. Think about it this way also: WP devices have quad-core ARM cpus with 512MB to 2GB RAM. Even the slow Surface RT has a quadcore with 2GB ram, so, spec wise, all RT devices are good to go, specially considering WP and RT are combining into a new SKU that both tablets and phones will use - the exact same windows version with UI that adapts to the device's size: if phones can run it, your RT devices can too!