My theory on why the 950 and XL designs kinda suck.

[windowshopper23]

Proof? Link, or it didn't happen

Proof is in the history of what Nokia brought out with their flagships. There was a direction in design they wanted to go with. And that direction has always led to Nokia inspiring other companies





You mean to tell me Nokia would stop following their own trends, and stop innovating and evolving from their previous flagships? That's not a Nokia flagship. There's more history that shows this could've definitely been a scrapped mid-range design. A Nokia flagship? Definitely not. Look at these designs here and tell me what you see. Below you have the Nokia Lumia 620,630, and 640/640 XL. The design language is distinct between Nokia's low to mid range models and Nokia's flagship models. There's no doubt about that.







So to tell me that this 950/950 XL looks like a flagship, or anything Nokia would have put out as a flagship just isn't right. The specs are there, and maybe that's all that matters to some of you. But I don't believe Nokia would simply ditch the design elements they used in all of their previous flagships that are still trends in the designs of other companies flagships. This very much feels like Microsoft is simply re-using a old mid-range design (similar to the 1320, again same design elements as the other low end to mid range Lumias) that was scrapped or set aside and using it for these new 950 devices.

 

[dakken]

Proof is in the history of what Nokia brought out with their flagships. There was a direction in design they wanted to go with. And that direction has always led to Nokia inspiring other companies

View attachment 111457

View attachment 111458

You mean to tell me Nokia would stop following their own trends, and stop innovating and evolving from their previous flagships? That's not a Nokia flagship. There's more history that shows this could've definitely been a scrapped mid-range design. A Nokia flagship? Definitely not. Look at these designs here and tell me what you see. Below you have the Nokia Lumia 620,630, and 640/640 XL. The design language is distinct between Nokia's low to mid range models and Nokia's flagship models. There's no doubt about that.

View attachment 111460

View attachment 111461

View attachment 111462

So to tell me that this 950/950 XL looks like a flagship, or anything Nokia would have put out as a flagship just isn't right. The specs are there, and maybe that's all that matters to some of you. But I don't believe Nokia would simply ditch the design elements they used in all of their previous flagships that are still trends in the designs of other companies flagships. This very much feels like Microsoft is simply re-using a old mid-range design (similar to the 1320, again same design elements as the other low end to mid range Lumias) that was scrapped or set aside and using it for these new 950 devices.

All that still doesn't change the FACT that these are Nokia designed phones,,,so it doesn't matter what you BELIEVE or how you FEEL. And nobody but the people at Nokia knows what they were thinking when they came up with these designs.

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[windowshopper23]

All that still doesn't change the FACT that these are Nokia designed phones,,,so it doesn't matter what you BELIEVE or how you FEEL.

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Rubino in your post stated these WERE in Nokia's portfolio. What that clearly means is that Nokia never put this phone out themselves. It just sat in their catalog of designs. And tossing in the fact the last mid-range phones Nokia put out were the 830, 1320, and 630 I'm gonna go ahead and say they weren't gonna be used by Nokia. Again. If you would listen and read my post you'd see Nokia had a clear design distinction between their flagships and low to mid range models. So okay, they WERE Nokia designs. But they clearly weren't used by Nokia. Which speaks more to how lazy Microsoft is being here. Using unused mid range Nokia designs.

 

[dakken]

Rubino in your post stated these WERE in Nokia's portfolio. What that clearly means is that Nokia never put this phone out themselves. It just sat in their catalog of designs. And tossing in the fact the last mid-range phones Nokia put out were the 830, 1320, and 630 I'm gonna go ahead and say they weren't gonna be used by Nokia. Again. If you would listen and read my post you'd see Nokia had a clear design distinction between their flagships and low to mid range models. So okay, they WERE Nokia designs. But they clearly weren't used by Nokia. Which speaks more to how lazy Microsoft is being here. Using unused mid range Nokia designs.

And WHERE if ANYWHERE does it say that these are midrange designs? And Rubino also says that these are NOT Microsoft designs. Your just making assumptions based on what you feel a flagship should look like. Do you work for Nokia and have inside knowledge of what designs were classified as budget,midrange and flagship if thats indeed if thats how they even do it. Do you know first-hand that Nokia created these Designs and then never used them, and MS just slapped a badge on old Nokia "MIDRANGE' designs? No.

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[Van Damme]

I've been followink Nokia for 7 years now and i know as a fact that flagships have an 18 month time range from conception till launch. So these definetely started life before the aquisition, but i also see that MS did have some imput in the final product and not the good kind. Following all the news about closed factories vand thousands of people fired, including people from the main Finland HQ, and also seeing these leaks i can only come up with one conclusion. MS is trying to cut costs on the manufacturing side. This mean they won't risk anymore extravagant design features that need expensive production techniques and facilities. They removed the 2.5d curved glass, they are removing the color options( Rubino said the blue is only for the Cityman prototype and we won't see it in stores).

I think Ms simply wants to milk what they already got from Nokia with minimal further investments in new tech. Basically do as much as posible with as little money and resources as possible cause they know trhat so far making phones in the wp ecosystem hasn't been a lucrative business for anyone.

I also think that if Nokia would have still been involved and in control they would have delivered something special again. Remember that before the aquisition Nokia was developing Pelican senors for their next flagship, they were developing high fidelity 3d maps with Here using the lydar, there were rumours they were developing a fitness oriented wearable and something related to VR. And judging from the 920 launch when they had a lot of stuff to compliment the phone, i thing this would have been the case now too. Fast forward to the present and Nokia proper released an awsome VR camera, they hired engineers to work on a wearable that combines fitness tracking with next gen location services. The camera r&d stuff was left in the Technologies division, cause that's were it was being developed along with next gen graphine applications.

Ms is left instead with a basic phone, that only features the stuff they've been working on, like Continuum an d stuff Nokia already developed and put in their flagships. Imagine this phone with curved glass, some clever back design, truly next generation camera, a whole array of accesories, a cool wearable,,improved mapping and some cool phone feature that takes advantage of that, some VR features(nobody does VR for windowsphone, but everyone does for android, so something like this would have been welcomed and necessary to keep up with the competition) plus Continuum from MS with the universal apps and w10 tie in. It would have been imense.

Oh and i disagree about the thikness arguments, cause HTC and LG both have 9.8 mm flagships. But they can definetely do better. I have one fear though, that they are crippling their own flagships to apease the other oems in hoping they will bring theire A game to windows. But i don't think it will work. Anyways this whole transition was a failure until now, it was all one dissapointment after the other

 

[windowshopper23]

And WHERE if ANYWHERE does it say that these are midrange designs? And Rubino also says that these are NOT Microsoft designs. Your just making assumptions about based on what you feel a flagship should look like.

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You continue to be ignorant here. So I don't understand why you are posting in threads about design when you clearly don't understand it. I've posted photos, I'm aware of Nokia's history. Look at the low to mid range phones Nokia pushed out right before Microsoft took over. Then go ahead and look at the 950. Now once more, look at history of Nokia Lumia flagships. You mean to tell me the 950 looks like it belongs with the previous Lumia flagships? No, it looks more like the low-mid range phones I have shown up above. Use your eyes. Also, a portfolio, as a designer, consists of used and unused designs. past or future.

Low to mid range Lumia's :

620


630


640


1320


And the 950


Now I can continue to post photos of the Nokia flagships that has been released, but if you aren't willing to understand the differences here whats the point? Again, I'll state it. Nokia flagships had a distinct design compared to Nokia's Lumia low to mid range devices. This, looks like a unused low to mid range design from Nokia. Not a flagship as Microsoft has used it.

 

[dakken]

You continue to be ignorant here. So I don't understand why you are posting in threads about design when you clearly don't understand it. I've posted photos, I'm aware of Nokia's history. Look at the low to mid range phones Nokia pushed out right before Microsoft took over. Then go ahead and look at the 950. Now once more, look at history of Nokia Lumia flagships. You mean to tell me the 950 looks like it belongs with the previous Lumia flagships? No, it looks more like the low-mid range phones I have shown up above. Use your eyes. Also, a portfolio, as a designer, consists of used and unused designs. past or future.

Low to mid range Lumia's :

620
View attachment 111464

630
View attachment 111465

640
View attachment 111466

1320
View attachment 111467

And the 950
View attachment 111468

Now I can continue to post photos of the Nokia flagships that has been released, but if you aren't willing to understand the differences here whats the point? Again, I'll state it. Nokia flagships had a distinct design compared to Nokia's Lumia low to mid range devices. This, looks like a unused low to mid range design from Nokia. Not a flagship as Microsoft has used it.

You can post all the pictures you want, still doesnt change the fact that these current phones designed by NOKIA have absolutely NOTHING to do with what nokia has done in the past. These are the current FLAGSHIP phones designed by NOKIA.

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[Novron]

The design is fine, not spectacular just mediocre. Bottom line though, I'm not paying $700+ for a plastic phone. Make it reasonably priced and I see nothing wrong with this offering. Make it spectacular and I'll jump on release day. As it is, I could see myself moving to this one if my phone was already 2-3 years old but still not at $700+. That's just a non-starter.

 

[Johnny Tremaine]

Again, source please that these are Nokia designs.
(Which is besides the point anyway, since Microsoft bought Nokia's device division, so literally, these *are* Microsoft designs.)
Otherwise, people are talking out of their rear end.

 

[dakken]

Again, source please that these are Nokia designs.
(Which is besides the point anyway, since Microsoft bought Nokia's device division, so literally, these *are* Microsoft designs.)
Otherwise, people are talking out of their rear end.

So the editor in chief of Windows Central Daniel Rubino, he himslef said that these are nokia and NOT Microsoft designs he is talking out of his rear? Im pretty sure he has more knowledge then you and i and everyone else on here about these things.

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[Joe Acerbic]

I, for one, absolutely do NOT want a "phone" that's 4 mm thin, made of gold plated Swarowski crystal and shatters into a trillion pieces if you lay it on a table carelessly. I like a 10 mm featureless, durable, matte black slab that does what I want it to do.

 

[Johnny Tremaine]

So the editor in chief of Windows Central Daniel Rubino, he himslef said that these are nokia and NOT Microsoft designs he is talking out of his rear? Im pretty sure he has more knowledge then you and i and everyone else on here about these things.

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Irrelevent.

-Microsoft bought the Nokia Devices Division, did they not? Of course they did.
-Point 2, Microsoft, very high up at the executive level, likely Satya Nadella himself, reviewed, signed off, and approved for these designs to go forward into production, with the Microsoft badge stenciled across the top of the devices, no?

Thus, these *are Microsoft designed devices*, I don't care if they pulled them originally out of the rear end of a camel.

 

[Musicman247]

Irrelevent.

-Microsoft bought the Nokia Devices Division, did they not? Of course they did.
-Point 2, Microsoft, very high up at the executive level, likely Satya Nadella himself, reviewed, signed off, and approved for these designs to go forward into production, with the Microsoft badge stenciled across the top of the devices, no?

Thus, these *are Microsoft designed devices*, I don't care if they pulled them originally out of the rear end of a camel.

You know why they signed off on them? Because fanboys were getting their panties in a twist about not having a flagship device. Why else would they be releasing a Surface phone just six months later? They went with what they had from Nokia to SHUT YOU UP. And now you're upset that they're not taking longer. Awesome.

 

[Joe Acerbic]

I don't care if they pulled them originally out of the rear end of a camel.

That would be the next super exclusive iPhone that's produced in strictly limited quantities by pulling not only the design but every individual phone out of the rear end of a camel. It will be magical and revolutionary and every Kardashian will want one.

 

[Johnny Tremaine]

You know why they signed off on them? Because fanboys were getting their panties in a twist about not having a flagship device. Why else would they be releasing a Surface phone just six months later? They went with what they had from Nokia to SHUT YOU UP. And now you're upset that they're not taking longer. Awesome.

Microsoft's market position in mobile is precarious. Nothing available for *another* holiday season would mean the whole mobile division gets padlocked and lights out. No flagship meant that 2.5% share becomes 1% and falling.
Because, nothing to buy= ta da! No sales!

I mean, that's likely happening *anyway* at this point, because that marketshare, she's-a-falling-through-the-floor-Mama-Mia!

 

[Visa Declined]

Why else would they be releasing a Surface phone just six months later?

I admit that I'm out of the loop, so let me ask...has Microsoft ever said that they're making a Surface phone? What exactly is the source of this information?

 

[Eisenhorn76]

I admit that I'm out of the loop, so let me ask...has Microsoft ever said that they're making a Surface phone? What exactly is the source of this information?

It seems to be all speculation at this point -- the idea was that because Nadella's focusing on aligning strategy/executing and getting a single Windows 10 platform pushed everywhere, the company wasn't devoting resources to putting out a *true* WP flagship this year and was instead focused putting out a 'Surface Phone' next year. I've not encountered anything definite. If anything, I get the sense that MSFT's smartphone strategy is still in flux.

Of course, the evleaks renders of the purported Cityman and Talkman phones have disappointed some (just look at Tremaine's posts to get an appreciation for that POV) and has accelerated speculation that this year's 'flagships' are merely stopgaps for a Surface Phone down the line.

 

[bo_woods]

It seems to be all speculation at this point -- the idea was that because Nadella's focusing on aligning strategy/executing and getting a single Windows 10 platform pushed everywhere, the company wasn't devoting resources to putting out a *true* WP flagship this year and was instead focused putting out a 'Surface Phone' next year. I've not encountered anything definite. If anything, I get the sense that MSFT's smartphone strategy is still in flux.

Of course, the evleaks renders of the purported Cityman and Talkman phones have disappointed some (just look at Tremaine's posts to get an appreciation for that POV) and has accelerated speculation that this year's 'flagships' are merely stopgaps for a Surface Phone down the line.

I feel the same way... I also strongly believe the Surface Phones are coming, and these two are stopgaps... I'll probably aim to pick up the 950... And then the Surface Phone next year

The Surface Phone In my eyes is just as real as the 950 & 950 XL, because not only have good sources windows central heavily suggested its existence in the rumor mill, but the cityman and Talkman are after all as of right now also simply rumored unconfirmed phones...

A business device (or two... Perhaps an XL or Pro model) has been confirmed from MS.. And many sources including an article from this very site has said that the devices may very well be Surface branded.

 

[Joe Acerbic]

The Surface Phone In my eyes is just as real as the 950 & 950 XL, because not only have good sources windows central heavily suggested its existence in the rumor mill, but the cityman and Talkman are after all as of right now also simply rumored unconfirmed phones...

Perhaps your eyes would need to see the few leaked actual photos of 950 / 950 XL. The Surface Phone is not even close to as real and I'm certainly not going to wait for it if I the demons of exclusivity fail and I get a chance to buy a 950 XL

 

[dakken]

Irrelevent.

-Microsoft bought the Nokia Devices Division, did they not? Of course they did.
-Point 2, Microsoft, very high up at the executive level, likely Satya Nadella himself, reviewed, signed off, and approved for these designs to go forward into production, with the Microsoft badge stenciled across the top of the devices, no?

Thus, these *are Microsoft designed devices*, I don't care if they pulled them originally out of the rear end of a camel.

You ask for proof and they say its irrelevant. The point is No matter WHO signed off on them they are 100% Nokia designs regardless of what branding they have.

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