My twitter battle with Nokia Care and Windows phone support over storage issues

[Ebuka Allison]

First, my twitter account for random bull is @neowriter73 user name Anon Writer. I only use it to tweet stuff that I don't want cluttering my main page. The story begins yesterday night where I was trying to watch a video. After trying and failing several times, I finally noticed that my phone storage was down to 00bytes. I soft reset, tried the date time trick. Nothing worked. At this point, I'm furious. Upset. Angry. I take to twitter and tweet Nokia Care, Joe Belfiore, Nokia UK, Windows Phone support. I basically have a rant at them and show them my storage. Nokia Care replied this morning. They started with the soft stuff, read the manual on other storage, try shrink storage, Nokia UK even suggests using SkyDrive. As we're having this talk, my storage falls from 80Mb, to 19 Mb, then stabilises at 40. I tell them this, they begin to poke around a bit more, eventually asking for firmware etc. Now I was prepared for this although I am a bit unsure. I'm running GDr3 preview you see, and the tlT&C's gave a specific bit where you they tell you that it can void your warranty. The dude posts it up for me. I challenged him saying that it references damages caused by the update, not preexisting ones etc. I also invoke warranty law at this point. I argue that as the Lumia is identified as an 8GB device and I bought it as such. It is thus irresponsible that it acts like a 4GB device with storage leaking from every pore. I then asked if it is possible for me to exchange both my 625 and 620 for a 920 whose price in the UK is just ?5 more than the 625 sim-free.




.......

You can read the debate on my twitter @neowriter73. My issue is, do you think I'm right on the last two points?The warranty law thing and the asking for an exchange with a different model. I mean, I'm sick of it and just want more storage though cant stand losing the versatility of having two phones. Also, is the other a grounds for a class action suit? False Advertising? Fitness of purpose etc.?

 

[Mr Lebowski]

We know that the 8GB storage spec includes the 1.9GB it takes to run the phone, so available storage is approx 6.1 and like any storage spec the 8GB isn't actual available storage just like a 32GB SD card with no files is actually 29.73 GB because it's formatted.

So best case scenario -when you get a new phone that is "8GB" is has about 6GB of available storage. There is no false adverting claim imo.

Good Luck mate, giv'em h e l l

 

[Pete]

To don't do Twitter, so I've not read your exchange - I get the gist though.

In my opinion, it's pretty pointless to start threatening Microsoft or Nokia with legal action, they'll simply stop trying to help you. Both companies have pretty tight Terms & Conditions that declares the limits of their liabilities. Local consumer law does play a part, but it's highly unlikely that any legal action will get anywhere at all.

The GDR3 preview program is designed for use by software developers, not the general public who want the update before anyone else. You read the terms and conditions for that and accepted that you potentially lost a level of support through doing that.

Support issues aside, I believe that 8Gb isn't really enough storage space for what I'd call an "Active" WP8 user, there's not really enough space for a moderate amount of content and still leave space for the phone's operating system to "breathe" (for lack of a better word).

I'd suggest that you remove some content (offline maps, music, videos, apps you don't use on a really regular basis), and hard reset your phone. That will give you some space back. The phone will eat more, but let it. I think as long as it's got about 200-300Mb or more free space, it'll keep running smoothly.

Save up, and get yourself a phone with 16Gb or more, things get a great deal better.

 

[Ebuka Allison]

Nah, the class action suit was simply an idle thought. I'd never sue someone, I was bored and thought I'd give it a try.

 

[Ebuka Allison]

Well, I had the phone for three weeks and its incredibly frustrating as I've the same problem on a GDR2 phone and I shouldn't have bought another one #stupid. Besides, I have nothing on my phone besides apps.
P.S The GDR3 preview doesn't strip you of your warranty. What those T&Cs say is that-in the event of any issue caused by the upgrade, you sacrifice the ability to claim any liabilities. Since this problem exists on both Amber and Lumia black...you see my point.

 

[th0mas96]

it's the classification of memory that is a major problem. normally, one kilobyte is 1024 byte, one MB 1024KB etc.. but for advertising, they are allowed to calculate it by 1000 byte = 1KB etc. This results in 8GB being 8*1000^3/1024^3 = 7,45 "real" GB. then, the OS takes space, formatting takes a tiny bit and you end up with a lot less than you initially thought.. But there obviously is a bug causing too much "other" storage, have you tried this app?

Lumia storage check beta | Windows Phone Anwendungen + Spiele Store (Deutschland)

it's a bit more detailed sometimes, it's worth a try

 

[DBZo07]

Android device gives half the advertised internal storage, though sd or internal storage are almost same for android.

Sent from my L625

 

[Pete]

it's the classification of memory that is a major problem. normally, one kilobyte is 1024 byte, one MB 1024KB etc.. but for advertising, they are allowed to calculate it by 1000 byte = 1KB etc. This results in 8GB being 8*1000^3/1024^3 = 7,45 "real" GB.

Accurately speaking, 1Kb = 1000 bytes and 1Mb is 1,000,000 bytes is the standard SI definition. In common usage, however, the definitions are widely interchangeable.

 

[Funky Cricket]

the problem is with Byte vs bit and how the computers use Hex as their round numbers, not base 10. 1 Byte = 8 bits. So you end of with the 8/16/32/ etc math of bits to Bytes. Then through some legal wrangling in the 80's they were able to say a hard drive is 20 GigaBytes based on the term Giga (million) in base 10, so 20,000,000 Bytes, but the computer does the math differently, so it see's it as 160000000 bits which when it breaks it down in formatting using the hex math of 8/16/ etc, we see 19.07 GigaBytes (1 Kilobyte = 1024 bytes, 1 Gigabyte = 1024 KB).

 

[th0mas96]

Yep, and physically - or just "real" - is one KB = 2^10 byte, but manufacturers are allowed to use the SI definition, which makes your really usable space less. you can do the math:
8GB (according to SI) are 8.000.000.000 bytes. If you divide that by 1024^3 (byte->KB->MB->GB), you'll get the "real" space.

 

[Ebuka Allison]

Well, well I didn't get shot down fo warranty etc. I've reached the "sorry for the inconvenience stage"

 

[Mr Lebowski]

it's the classification of memory that is a major problem. normally, one kilobyte is 1024 byte, one MB 1024KB etc.. but for advertising, they are allowed to calculate it by 1000 byte = 1KB etc. This results in 8GB being 8*1000^3/1024^3 = 7,45 "real" GB. then, the OS takes space, formatting takes a tiny bit and you end up with a lot less than you initially thought.. But there obviously is a bug causing too much "other" storage, have you tried this app?

Lumia storage check beta | Windows Phone Anwendungen + Spiele Store (Deutschland)
it's a bit more detailed sometimes, it's worth a try

When I got my 820 ( 8GB) new it said 7.43GB available minus the 1.9GB for the OS = 5.53GB available.

 

[realwarder]

Rumor has it (and it is a rumor) that WP8.1 will permit apps to run on the SD card to help the continued sale of low memory (cheaper) devices. But of course that's just a rumor.

In the meantime, you can move any maps onto an SD card. Music and video files too. Also, don't download a months email... just a weeks and then you can still use the search function to find older emails in the server folders.

Unless you have a lot of massive games, 6Gb of space should be usable.

 

[Ebuka Allison]

Rumor has it (and it is a rumor) that WP8.1 will permit apps to run on the SD card to help the continued sale of low memory (cheaper) devices. But of course that's just a rumor.

In the meantime, you can move any maps onto an SD card. Music and video files too. Also, don't download a months email... just a weeks and then you can still use the search function to find older emails in the server folders.

Unless you have a lot of massive games, 6Gb of space should be usable.

My reasoning exactly. Unfortunately, windows phone works counter to reason. I have 1.9-2GB of apps + app data installed. I have 3GB of other. Right now I have ~~~100-200 MB pf free space. See the issue?

 

[Mr Lebowski]

Do you have tons of texts, emails and internet explorer temp files on your phone ? some of other might be a lot of emails or texts.

 

[Ebuka Allison]

Windows Phone breaks this down using both the Gdr3 phone storage app and the Lumia storage check

 

[Mr Lebowski]

Windows Phone breaks this down using both the Gdr3 phone storage app and the Lumia storage check

Storage Check doesn't say what "other" is and Phone Storage still has the 'temporary files" mystery, but it does list email+messaging so if he has a GB
or more there then that is part of the problem and it's time to delete old messages and emails.

 

[Ebuka Allison]

Storage Check doesn't say what "other" is and Phone Storage still has the 'temporary files" mystery, but it does list email+messaging so if he has a GB
or more there then that is part of the problem and it's time to delete old messages and emails.

"He" is me. I have less than 500mb of messages, emails and contacts etc. Combined. 400 MB of temporary files, 200 Mb of free space.

 

[Mr Lebowski]

"He" is me. I have less than 500mb of messages, emails and contacts etc. Combined. 400 MB of temporary files, 200 Mb of free space.

I know but who else would "he" be :wink: you didn't address me by my name :grin:
But something isn't right with storage that's for sure. UNLESS over the period of time you've own the phone
have created tons of temporary files and /or deleted a ton of apps which leave the temporary files
it took to run them on your phone. The only way to get rid of all those files ( if that's the case) it to reset your phone.
Did you read this yet ? http://www.windowsphone.com/en-US/how-to/wp8/basics/other-phone-storage-faq

And read all the headings with the triangle " > "