N-triq over Wacom kills the Pro 3 for me.

[Tankor]

I have used the a a Ntrig pen extensively in the long forgotten htc flyer and although it's good, batteries are a big issues. The pen is always plagued by problems where the pen is not activated and hence the screen does not detect the pen. Worse still is the problem is intermittent and totally unpredictable. Just for this, I have sworn on pens requiring batteries

 

[vlad0]

This version is aimed at writing more so than painting...

you wouldn't be able to do this

if they had a Wacom pen.. it needs to connect over BT in order to wake the device and launch the one note app

 

[jhoff80]

This version is aimed at writing more so than painting...

you wouldn't be able to do this

https://fgoqtw.bn1.livefilestore.co...XfBN3JPg8H54EftVjAccA/sp3 pen wake.gif?psid=1

if they had a Wacom pen.. it needs to connect over BT in order to wake the device and launch the one note app

Actually, this pen does connect over Bluetooth for that.

 

[gibbage]

Yep. So they downgrade the pen so you can click a notepad open. Wow.

 

[Dustin Hodges]

Wacom uses some sort of hardware layer in the screen I believe.
I think the problem most professional artists have is the sensitivity. It just really isn't enough for pro work.

Correct. Wacom uses electromagnetic sensors that react to components in the pen, altering the magnetic field in a precise way, combined with pressure applied to the display.

And is 256 a bad thing? That still sounds like a lot of levels to me...

That is completely wrong.

I'm typing this out on my Ativ Smart with Wacom technology, using stock Wacom FeelIT drivers. With exception to artistry software (SAI, ArtRage) and OneNote (among other Wacom optimized software), everything else (including most of the OS) treats it like a mouse. Tap to click. The button makes it right click. Hovering does the same as "hovering" with a mouse.

This version is aimed at writing more so than painting...

you wouldn't be able to do this ... if they had a Wacom pen.

It needs to connect over BT in order to wake the device and launch the one note app

Actually, this pen does connect over Bluetooth for that.

Isn't that what they said?

Yep. So they downgrade the pen so you can click a notepad open. Wow.

Again, dont count your chickens before they hatch. It's just as possible that the Pro 3's pen technology blows former devices out of the water, as it is that it sucks worse than a $50 android tablet's resistive touch display. Also read what i said above. This decision is very much as likely made for it's improved performance as it is the button.

 

[ntice_521]

It's N-trig, not N-triq.

 

[jhoff80]

I'm typing this out on my Ativ Smart with Wacom technology, using stock Wacom FeelIT drivers. With exception to artistry software (SAI, ArtRage) and OneNote (among other Wacom optimized software), everything else (including most of the OS) treats it like a mouse.

Just because it has the same behavior as a mouse doesn't mean the OS sees it as a mouse. Moreover, a powered pen doesn't change that at all. You still need apps to plug into pen support. WinRT apps will do this with the Microsoft Ink API. Desktop ones do it with either the Ink API or the Wintab API. In fact, a non-Wacom pen generally will have less system-wide support because many art programs DO require Wintab. Until recently, this was a huge N-trig issue (they've since released a Wintab 'wrapper' to give support).

Isn't that what they said?

Ah, possibly. It depends on how you interpret the ellipsis there I guess.

Yep. So they downgrade the pen so you can click a notepad open. Wow.

No, they did it because:

To keep the Pro 3 as thin as the Surface 2, it needed a thin display element, and Wacom's, thanks to its on-display digitizer technology, was just too thick. Reps also praised N-trig's accuracy, and cited that as a reason for the switch.

http://www.tabletpcreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4916

 

[Dustin Hodges]

Just because it has the same behavior as a mouse doesn't mean the OS sees it as a mouse. Moreover, a powered pen doesn't change that at all. You still need apps to plug into pen support. WinRT apps will do this with the Microsoft Ink API. Desktop ones do it with either the Ink API or the Wintab API. In fact, a non-Wacom pen generally will have less system-wide support because many art programs DO require Wintab. Until recently, this was a huge N-trig issue (they've since released a Wintab 'wrapper' to give support).

I didn't mean it registers as a mouse, only that it's treated as one. As far as software use, i was speculating that the on-screen handwriting to text that was demonstrated on stage could be system wide, and that the Wacom technology may of either been non-functional or poorly functional in doing the same task, meaning this new stylus would have more functions within non-optimized software vs. current FeelIT offerings.

 

[jhoff80]

Ah, doubtful. I'd almost guarantee that the app just was written to take advantage of the Ink APIs.

Not all that different from this back in 2005:

 

[Reflexx]

Correct. Wacom uses electromagnetic sensors that react to components in the pen, altering the magnetic field in a precise way, combined with pressure applied to the display.

And is 256 a bad thing? That still sounds like a lot of levels to me...

I could understand how that sounds like a lot of levels to a person who isn't a digital artist. It's more than enough for casual doodling.

It just isn't enough to do pro work easily.

I do like how there appears to be very very very little gap between the pen tip and the screen. That's pretty awesome.

If N-trig would just up their sensitivity to 1024 I think they'd have a winner for creatives. Especially if they add tilt sensitivity to the pen.

 

[jhoff80]

I could understand how that sounds like a lot of levels to a person who isn't a digital artist. It's more than enough for casual doodling.

It just isn't enough to do pro work easily.

Lets keep in mind that these levels are over a less than 1mm distance. I'd be very impressed if you can tell the difference. What really matters is a smooth pressure curve for mapping what those minute details map

 

[rocketboy]

Been on TabletPCs since they were called TabletPCs and the thing that always had me coming back to MS tablets was the steadfast inclusion of Wacom technology. What an absolute let down to hear SP3 went N-trig.

I own a Cintiq 21UX and currently have the SP2. It's noticeable step down from the 2048 pressure levels on the Cintiq to the SP2. Even my super old Wacom tablet from early 2000s had 512 pressure levels. If you're not an artist you probably won't notice, but if you are then this is a big deal.

I'm not looking to upgrade since my SP2 is less than a year old and it is a second device for me. I'm going to the MS Store at some point to play with the SP3. I'll try some sketching on SP3 using Sketchbook Pro if I can and if it doesn't measure up I'm going to let the store people know why I wouldn't consider upgrading. Make your voices heard on this matter!

 

[paritosh sahu]

But Daniel Rubino in his hands on video specifically said it's a Wacom Pen. Need official confirmation of it

 

[sakai135]

Well, you guys should also let Wacom know that you want a thinner, more power efficient technology from them. The reasons that MS provided do make sense from their point of view, and Wacom would never let MS make a Cintiq replacement anyway.

 

[James8561]

idk why you all are blaming Microsoft when it was Wacom that was being an ******* and not giving Microsoft the pen they need.

 

[paritosh sahu]

The N-trig pen may not be as bad as everyone is predicting...
A small transcript from the Engadget hands-on:
"More important than the higher pixel count, perhaps, is the new pen tech. With this generation, Microsoft ditched Wacom and instead used an N-trig active digitizer. We know, we know: This probably sounds like inside baseball to all but our most hardcore readers. In truth, though, it's a better experience. The pen, first of all, has been redesigned so that it feels more like a normal, ink-based pen. Indeed, it does feel more substantial in the hand, not that I had many complaints about the pen that came with the Surface Pro 2. Also, the screen has just enough friction that when I write on it, I feel like I'm writing on paper (or as close as you can get, anyway). On the software side, Microsoft's own OneNote app now sends your scribbles to the cloud as soon as you lay them down -- yep, kind of like how Google Drive or some such will save your work as soon as you start typing."

Hope this gives some solace to the complainers

 

[John20212]

Actually, this pen does connect over Bluetooth for that.

Wouldn't it be great if Microsoft released an updated Wacom Pen for the SPro and SPro2 with an extra button and Bluetooth for the OneNote feature?
If all is needed is Bluetooth connectivity, it should be easy enough for it to work on older Surface models with a new updated pen.

I for one would give them $50+ if they also made the pen in metal instead of the cheap plastic crap that came originally with the previous Surface devices.

 

[Reflexx]

Lets keep in mind that these levels are over a less than 1mm distance. I'd be very impressed if you can tell the difference. What really matters is a smooth pressure curve for mapping what those minute details map

There can be a pretty big variance between a really hard line and a really soft one.

Maybe this one pen is super awesome. I just know that if I use an older Wacom Bamboo and compare it to my Intuos there's a noticeable difference.

 

[Reflexx]

Well, you guys should also let Wacom know that you want a thinner, more power efficient technology from them. The reasons that MS provided do make sense from their point of view, and Wacom would never let MS make a Cintiq replacement anyway.

I want Wacom to have real competition. My personal disappointment isn't that it's N-trig. It's that I wish N-trig stepped up their game to truly compete with Wacom in digital arts.

 

[blehblehbleh]

Wouldn't it be great if Microsoft released an updated Wacom Pen for the SPro and SPro2 with an extra button and Bluetooth for the OneNote feature?

I don't see why MS couldn't anyways. Creative types just gotta be vocal about it so MS knows. The pen itself costs $49.99 separately.