Now, who is working on the ecosystem?

[BeaverJuicer]

3D displays without glasses - the technology is in it's infancy, but it's there. Toshiba's no-glasses 3D TV: How it looks | Macworld
Kinect Sensors
3D modeling of the desktop...

It's coming...

 

[rockstarzzz]

Actually, I find it to be an excellent piece of software. It's not perfect; it certainly won't be right for everyone. But it is right for me. I find most of what people want WP to do to "catch up" with Android and iOS defeat the purpose of looking at the wireless experience in a whole new way, and would turn the phone into another idroid with a new paint job. I have yet to find something I want to do with my phone, that I just can't.

Never felt like creating playlist on your WP? or wanted to edit an email before you forward it to your boss? or wanted not keep appearing online-offline on your messenger & to not annoy your friends? or stop screen rotate annoying while you were reading an article in bed? or never had any company email account that synced fine with WM5, WM6, WP7 but not with WP8?

This can go on, but point being, even though it is boundlessly beautiful and may be notification center or quick toggles or volume controls are going to make it look slightly like idroid, basic stuff that we have learnt to expect out of a smartphone needs to be there, not now, yesterday! I don't care one bit about apps the same way you might not care about orientation lock and I don't care if I don't get a toilet paper app on my phone for another decade. What I do think is hurting here is catch up in the sense of basic functions and those functions that are already there to "just work". Windows Phone 7 just worked. I was able to boast it to literally anyone and tell them confidently that "it just works". WP8 doesn't. Granted it is a new OS, only 4 months old etc, but this has been in work for nearly 2 years now. What happened to rolling out hot fixes? patches? No excuse is good enough to defend the pace of snail that Microsoft has adapted. Yes, if it does wow us with the good software it is taking time to build, I will chew my shoes. But, haven't we heard the same wait for x update, y update and z update story before? - catch up.

 

[aubreyq]

Not having achieved parity with Android and iOS does nothing to change their release schedule. Software development takes time. GOOD software development takes even longer.

Can Microsoft really afford to take their time in the mobile sector which is growing exponentially?

Actually, I find it to be an excellent piece of software. It's not perfect; it certainly won't be right for everyone. But it is right for me. I find most of what people want WP to do to "catch up" with Android and iOS defeat the purpose of looking at the wireless experience in a whole new way, and would turn the phone into another idroid with a new paint job. I have yet to find something I want to do with my phone, that I just can't.

WP will never be "another idroid with a paint job" because of their (IMO) superior UI, however not having features that stop buyers in their tracks does NOT help the plaftorm. Heck, the editorial here at WPCentral about 8 things that WP needs right now speaks volumes. That editorial, on the most visited WP site, is testament that WP8 just isn't "there" yet.

Completely agree with you. But when they demo stuff like this a year ago

Microsoft Research shows off see-through 3D display, Holoreflector, IllumiShare | ExtremeTech

Then nothing comes out of it, just seems a shame...

Heck, how about the stuff that gets actually released, like Kinect? Sure, it's sold extremely well (I have one), but the software and other usage that has come as a result is still kind of weak. I thought by now I'd be sitting on my couch having Skype (there's that four letter word again!) video calls...

 

[BeaverJuicer]

Never felt like creating playlist on your WP? or wanted to edit an email before you forward it to your boss? or wanted not keep appearing online-offline on your messenger & to not annoy your friends? or stop screen rotate annoying while you were reading an article in bed? or never had any company email account that synced fine with WM5, WM6, WP7 but not with WP8?

This can go on, but point being, even though it is boundlessly beautiful and may be notification center or quick toggles or volume controls are going to make it look slightly like idroid, basic stuff that we have learnt to expect out of a smartphone needs to be there, not now, yesterday! I don't care one bit about apps the same way you might not care about orientation lock and I don't care if I don't get a toilet paper app on my phone for another decade. What I do think is hurting here is catch up in the sense of basic functions and those functions that are already there to "just work". Windows Phone 7 just worked. I was able to boast it to literally anyone and tell them confidently that "it just works". WP8 doesn't. Granted it is a new OS, only 4 months old etc, but this has been in work for nearly 2 years now. What happened to rolling out hot fixes? patches? No excuse is good enough to defend the pace of snail that Microsoft has adapted. Yes, if it does wow us with the good software it is taking time to build, I will chew my shoes. But, haven't we heard the same wait for x update, y update and z update story before? - catch up.

My point is, NONE of these features were there when you bought the phone. So you bought it, based on future features with no set release date. Microsoft has released a major feature release less than 2 months after it was launched - faster than any other OS has done. But still it isn't good enough.

I will now go back and quote myself, because it still stands. You bought the phone based on unreleased features with no set street date. If you are no longer willing to wait, go buy an android and see how long your update takes then.

 

[BeaverJuicer]

Can Microsoft really afford to take their time in the mobile sector which is growing exponentially?

It takes time to cook a turkey, regardless of how much you spend on an oven. External market factors are irrelevant. If you take the turkey out before it's done, it will wind up pink in the middle, and could kill your guests.

WP will never be "another idroid with a paint job" because of their (IMO) superior UI, however not having features that stop buyers in their tracks does NOT help the plaftorm. Heck, the editorial here at WPCentral about 8 things that WP needs right now speaks volumes. That editorial, on the most visited WP site, is testament that WP8 just isn't "there" yet.

I completely disagree that 3 of those 8 things (folders, notification center, Instagram) are even necessary or would be good for the platform, couldn't care less about another 3, but do agree that volume profiles and universal search would be nice... Personally, I think that if the platform doesn't offer what a user is after, the user would be SMART not to buy it.

But again, I bought a phone based on the feature set that it had, at the time. That is likely why none of the things that people talk about as "missing" bother me. I made an educated, intelligent decision on what phone I liked best based on its CURRENT feature set. I don't like Android, at all. I have an iPad, and iOS does nothing for me. I care not about how many apps a store has, because I have ones that work for me, doing exactly what I want. I would like to see a better Mileage Tracking app, but that's not a dealbreaker by any means.

When I see someone complaining about their upgrade to WP8 after seeing they owned multiple WP7 phones, and having the same issues as they have now... Well, they should have known better. I have no sympathy for that.

 

[rockstarzzz]

My point is, NONE of these features were there when you bought the phone. So you bought it, based on future features with no set release date. Microsoft has released a major feature release less than 2 months after it was launched - faster than any other OS has done. But still it isn't good enough.

I will now go back and quote myself, because it still stands. You bought the phone based on unreleased features with no set street date. If you are no longer willing to wait, go buy an android and see how long your update takes then.

It's not about how many "major" feature releases occur in a year, it's about what that updates bring to the table.

If you launch an OS with about 120 missing features when compared to competition, then start releasing 5 updates a year with 4 features in each release you will need 6 years to be where your competition is and in those 6 years even non-innovative competition would have added 50 more features at least that you still need to catch up on!

So, yes everyone got a phone with what the features were at the point of buying WITH the knowledge that Microsoft will be supporting and developing this software further for 2 more years. Now don't tell me you expected 5 updates a year with 4 features each from a software giant like Microsoft when they said "yes we will support & develop that on that hardware for 2 years".

 

[BeaverJuicer]

So, yes everyone got a phone with what the features were at the point of buying WITH the knowledge that Microsoft will be supporting and developing this software further for 2 more years. Now don't tell me you expected 5 updates a year with 4 features each from a software giant like Microsoft when they said "yes we will support & develop that on that hardware for 2 years".

And that is exactly what they are doing. If you read more into that statement than what you have been getting, that is your own reading. They never said anything more than "we will support and develop for 2 more years." They did not say "major feature releases monthly" or "Skype by Feb 7 2012" or anything like that. They are updating and supporting in exactly the same manner and speed that anybody familiar with OS development cycles would expect them to be doing. I don't expect X number of features with X number of releases a year. To be honest, I expected a couple bug fixes, with a major feature release at about 6 months.

 

[rockstarzzz]

And that is exactly what they are doing. If you read more into that statement than what you have been getting, that is your own reading. They never said anything more than "we will support and develop for 2 more years." They did not say "major feature releases monthly" or "Skype by Feb 7 2012" or anything like that. They are updating and supporting in exactly the same manner and speed that anybody familiar with OS development cycles would expect them to be doing. I don't expect X number of features with X number of releases a year. To be honest, I expected a couple bug fixes, with a major feature release at about 6 months.

They released Portico and forgot to fix the broken Music app. How is that not one of your expected bug fix?
They released Mango, Tango, Portico and forgot to fix edit before forward in an email. How is that not one of the expected bug fix?

I have been on the same bandwagon 6 months ago, as you are today. Defending MSFT because others were reading between the lines. Yes, they won't say anything in black and white, no one will, not a corporate giant!
But point is - there is an elephant, in fact a few elephants in the room. I don't care, in a way if MSFT busts a move or not, I am more than content and happy with what the OS does for me, but the slow pace at which a software company fixes a software is mind-boggling! I expect this from an advertisement giant like Google, not Microsoft, a company that once enjoyed monopoly for more than 4 decades!

 

[BeaverJuicer]

the slow pace at which a software company fixes a software is mind-boggling!

This. Right here. Most people have no clue what it takes to release software. You can't just throw money at it, or hire more people.

You take that turkey out of the world's most expensive oven before it is done cooking, and all you have is pink bird that could kill you if you ate it. If you wish, you may feel free to purchase the ready-to-eat chicken next door, or get a hamburger from the McDonalds down the street. I prefer well cooked turkey, and will wait till it is done.

 

[rockstarzzz]

This. Right here. Most people have no clue what it takes to release software. You can't just throw money at it, or hire more people.

You take that turkey out of the world's most expensive oven before it is done cooking, and all you have is pink bird that could kill you if you ate it. If you wish, you may feel free to purchase the ready-to-eat chicken next door, or get a hamburger from the McDonalds down the street. I prefer well cooked turkey, and will wait till it is done.

Did you own a WP7?

This turkey for someone like me has been cooking since 2010 and trust me, hasn't even turned faint pink, forget golden brown, yet!

 

[BeaverJuicer]

Did you own a WP7?

This turkey for someone like me has been cooking since 2010 and trust me, hasn't even turned faint pink, forget golden brown, yet!

If you ate your first undercooked turkey in 2010, you should have known better than to order a new serving before it came out of the oven!

And no, I came from a BlackBerry. Makes a good side dish or dessert topping, but just wasn't cut out to be a main course.

 

[rockstarzzz]

If you ate your first undercooked turkey in 2010, you should have known better than to order a new serving before it came out of the oven!

And no, I came from a BlackBerry. Makes a good side dish or dessert topping, but just wasn't cut out to be a main course.

But they have the most expensive oven and apparently the best cooks in the kitchen! How can they keep serving undercooked turkey since 2010, I do not understand. But there is hope. Since you've only spent a few months waiting, it will all be nice and rosy. It gets frustrating to see the platform you've ended up loving doesn't go anywhere for 24 months and counting! However, what everyone needs to remember is - this is a marathon for MSFT, not a sprint. They are just redefining time.

 

[BeaverJuicer]

But they have the most expensive oven and apparently the best cooks in the kitchen! How can they keep serving undercooked turkey since 2010, I do not understand. But there is hope. Since you've only spent a few months waiting, it will all be nice and rosy. It gets frustrating to see the platform you've ended up loving doesn't go anywhere for 24 months and counting! However, what everyone needs to remember is - this is a marathon for MSFT, not a sprint. They are just redefining time.

I am going to keep with this Turkey analogy, because it is really working.

The most expensive oven, and best cooks in the kitchen, can do nothing to speed up the cooking time of that turkey. Yes, the first one came out of the oven too early. For their own reasons, they decided that instead of putting that turkey back in the oven to finish, they would start with a fresh turkey (which is the right choice. Recooked food never tastes as good). Front of the house orders for that first turkey were rather slow, understandably.

But now, there is fresh demand for that new turkey. Franchise agreements are in place, and some franchisees cannot even keep stock on side dishes to go with the turkey. New money has been invested into remodeling the kitchen. Corporate recipes are put in place to make sure there is a consistent turkey experience between all the corporate restaurants. There is a lot to be optimistic about.

But none of that can change how long it will take to cook that turkey.

 

[martinmc78]

Can Microsoft really afford to take their time in the mobile sector which is growing exponentially?

WP will never be "another idroid with a paint job" because of their (IMO) superior UI, however not having features that stop buyers in their tracks does NOT help the plaftorm. Heck, the editorial here at WPCentral about 8 things that WP needs right now speaks volumes. That editorial, on the most visited WP site, is testament that WP8 just isn't "there" yet.

Heck, how about the stuff that gets actually released, like Kinect? Sure, it's sold extremely well (I have one), but the software and other usage that has come as a result is still kind of weak. I thought by now I'd be sitting on my couch having Skype (there's that four letter word again!) video calls...

Yeah that's the point I was trying to get at. They release the hardware then don't do much with the software. The Kinect for pc is a prime example the hardware and sdk got released and nothing major has really come out of it. The illumiroom tech that got demoed can guarantee that developers will have to do a lot of back end work on the games for it to be enabled and working properly. MS just enable the hardware and then say ok guys get on with it.

 

[blacktornado]

This. Right here. Most people have no clue what it takes to release software. You can't just throw money at it, or hire more people.

You take that turkey out of the world's most expensive oven before it is done cooking, and all you have is pink bird that could kill you if you ate it. If you wish, you may feel free to purchase the ready-to-eat chicken next door, or get a hamburger from the McDonalds down the street. I prefer well cooked turkey, and will wait till it is done.

Honestly, I'm not a software developer, but I do like to cook.
If I invite friends over and the turkey is not ready yet, I turn on the stove and I make some fast starter.
That is what Microsoft could do: some core function, like profiles and separate volumes are not ready yet? Fine, as "starter" they could put some people "cooking" the pdf reader, or the music app, or the Skydrive app. We would still don't know about the turkey, but at least the starter would be great. But no, all these apps still have missing features.
The guests are starving, and neither the turkey nor the starter are ready? Well, maybe I could warm app yesterday's pie in the microwave and give them that, still better than nothing. But no, let's throw the old but still good pie away (Zune) and leave the guests starving with the companion app..

 

[rockstarzzz]

Honestly, I'm not a software developer, but I do like to cook.
If I invite friends over and the turkey is not ready yet, I turn on the stove and I make some fast starter.
That is what Microsoft could do: some core function, like profiles and separate volumes are not ready yet? Fine, as "starter" they could put some people "cooking" the pdf reader, or the music app, or the Skydrive app. We would still don't know about the turkey, but at least the starter would be great. But no, all these apps still have missing features.
The guests are starving, and neither the turkey nor the starter are ready? Well, maybe I could warm app yesterday's pie in the microwave and give them that, still better than nothing. But no, let's throw the old but still good pie away (Zune) and leave the guests starving with the companion app..

Welcome to WPC! Excellent first post. I will throw in your first thanks and like too

This is what sort of narrows down what I would have said carrying on with Turkey analogy. Also, if you have the best cooks in your kitchen and the state of the art oven, I am sure it doesn't take long to figure out what can be done to cook the Turkey quicker. Other than the oven temperature there are plenty of things the best chefs could come up with in order to keep the guests on their table and not leave i.e. maybe just make some fake sauce or heat up some sauce while you wait for Turkey - let the guests smell the awesome sauces so that they know something is cooking. But again, don't let those sauces smell for hours because then the guests will be hungry and hunger is never dealt with a calm head.

 

[martinmc78]

Welcome to WPC! Excellent first post. I will throw in your first thanks and like too

This is what sort of narrows down what I would have said carrying on with Turkey analogy. Also, if you have the best cooks in your kitchen and the state of the art oven, I am sure it doesn't take long to figure out what can be done to cook the Turkey quicker. Other than the oven temperature there are plenty of things the best chefs could come up with in order to keep the guests on their table and not leave i.e. maybe just make some fake sauce or heat up some sauce while you wait for Turkey - let the guests smell the awesome sauces so that they know something is cooking. But again, don't let those sauces smell for hours because then the guests will be hungry and hunger is never dealt with a calm head.

Aww man all this talk of turkey and sauces and starters... Damn im hungry now...

 

[rockstarzzz]

Aww man all this talk of turkey and sauces and starters... Damn im hungry now...

I feel for ya! As soon as the turkey analogy was extended, I had to get up and heat some left over lasagne from tonight's dinner and eat again! I am so pleased someone invented microwave and fridge!

 

[iamtim]

I'm sorry, but the turkey analogy doesn't work. If the best cooks with the best oven in the best kitchen make a change in the way they cook a turkey, that doesn't affect the potatoes or the green beans or any other side dish. If Microsoft changes something in the base OS - even something as simple as profiles or a notification system - it could possibly affect every. single. app. in. the. Marketplace. They have to build in checks for that. And tests. And QA.

You can't rush that without taking the chance of pissing off every single developer and user, most of whom are complaining that it's not coming fast enough in the first place.

 

[rockstarzzz]

I'm sorry, but the turkey analogy doesn't work. If the best cooks with the best oven in the best kitchen make a change in the way they cook a turkey, that doesn't affect the potatoes or the green beans or any other side dish. If Microsoft changes something in the base OS - even something as simple as profiles or a notification system - it could possibly affect every. single. app. in. the. Marketplace. They have to build in checks for that. And tests. And QA.

You can't rush that without taking the chance of pissing off every single developer and user, most of whom are complaining that it's not coming fast enough in the first place.

For example, ability to edit emails before forwarding will affect marketplace apps for all developers? or allowing multiple volume controls will affect developers? or will allowing Windows 8 like backgrounds instead of black and white only in the OS break the apps?