Okay, HTC, you have next....

[a5cent]

Hmm...you made a very good point my friend. It is spec vs performance now.

I love this conclusion you have come to Xenophos! Great! It is in every consumers own interest (not just WP users) to pivot from making purchasing decisions based on rather meaningless paper-specs to performance measurements instead. It is up to us to push for that change.

Or they have to prove to us why a dual core WP8 is BETTER than a quad core iOS or Andy phone..

This is exactly what I've tried to explain in my "how many cores does a smartphone thread need?" thread.

Unfortunately, the industry just doesn't have the tools to easily prove this to everyone just yet. Cross platform games based on the Unity framework will be the first applications which lend themselves to this task. They will prove what you have asked for.

iPhone 5 owner: "hey..I have a QUAD core, super high retina display, with 15MP cam and 2GB RAM. What about you..."
WP user: *Mumbles something*
iPhone 5 owner: "Got it. I win."

Still, if you really want to get into a spec war with an iPhone 5 user, there isn't anything to fear (if you've got a Lumia 920):

1) It is as good as certain that the iPhone 5 will be a dual core device, so that is no different from the Lumia 920.
2) For Apple, any display with a ppi value over 300 is considered a retina display.
Lumia 920 display ppi: 332
iPhone 5 display ppi: 325
So, the Lumia 920's display fully qualifies as a retina display, and is actually better then the future iPhone's. You may also want to ask people how they survive with such low-tech iPhone 5 displays that support neither ClearBlack nor Puremotion HD+ "technology" (and ask the same of Android users while you're at it).
3) I have no idea what camera tech the iPhone5 will include. If they end up with a higher MP count then happily admit they have you beat when it comes to the number of underexposed and blurry pixels they can jam into a photograph. Apple will not out-do the Lumia 920's camera image quality in this hardware cycle.

It truly seems that WP Central community is overall disappointed with the Nokia announcement. I mean TRULY disappointed. That surprises me.

I think the WP community was hoping for something that indisputably and unequivocally blows the competition out of the water. Spec-wise and feature-wise. I think most people didn't/don't have any specific idea of what that might be, but were hoping to recognize it when they saw it, which they didn't. That is where most of the disappointment comes from.

The way the event was setup, we were all bound to be disappointed, because the simple fact is that smartphone innovation today is software and not hardware driven, and the OS was not shown.

It is precisely for this reason that HTC won't fair any better. They might score a few points with the 3% of us that want a high-end smartphone with more then 32GB of storage space. Some might prefer HTC's designs over Nokia's but that will be it. On the other hand, HTC won't have any compelling software exclusives, and their hardware won't have any of the innovative touches and accessories the Lumia's have (ClearBlack displays, PureView camera, NFC enabled accessories, etc).

According to IDC, WP is becoming increasingly associated with Nokia, even more so than with Microsoft. Just as Samsung is the Android smartphone company, even more so than Google. I think this trend will become even stronger over time. It is already apparent in polls all over the internet where Nokia consistently get's around 90% of the votes from people considering a WP device.

This puts HTC in the position of feeding on the "scraps" Nokia leaves behind, which itself is feeding on no more than the "scraps" left behind by Samsung and Apple. I don't think that is sufficient to sustain HTC in the long run, which is why I am pessimistic of their survival, at least in their current form.

I also don't buy the argument that HTC could play the knight in shining armor that saves WP if Nokia goes under. If Nokia goes under then WP will go down with it...

 

[geekmaster]

If HTC really wants to push the 8X they should get Riddley Scott to do a space oddesy/prometheus like commercial. The following bellow is a great example.
[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwEtldZQNew[/YT]

 

[Mitlov]

I also don't buy the argument that HTC could play the knight in shining armor that saves WP if Nokia goes under. If Nokia goes under then WP will go down with it...

I disagree. If Nokia goes under, and other OEMs aren't doing enough for the brand, Microsoft will buy their manufacturing at fire sale prices during the bankruptcy and use it to make a Surface Phone. Microsoft could operate the phone hardware business at a loss without feeling any major consequences, thanks to the money it brings in from all its other divisions. Microsoft needs this as part of its greater ecosystem, so it's not going to let WP die.

 

[X0LARIUM]

If HTC really wants to push the 8X they should get Riddley Scott to do a space oddesy/prometheus like commercial. The following bellow is a great example.
Click to view quoted video

Ohhh DUDE!!! U SAID IT MAN....*DROOOLL.....SLLUURRPPP*

Gonna write at least ONE such commercial in my advertising career...

Sent from my DROID RaZr.

 

[mmacleodbrown]

Still, if you really want to get into a spec war with an iPhone 5 user, there isn't anything to fear (if you've got a Lumia 920):

1) It is as good as certain that the iPhone 5 will be a dual core device, so that is no different from the Lumia 920.
2) For Apple, any display with a ppi value over 300 is considered a retina display.
Lumia 920 display ppi: 332
iPhone 5 display ppi: 325
So, the Lumia 920's display fully qualifies as a retina display, and is actually better then the future iPhone's. You may also want to ask people how they survive with such low-tech iPhone 5 displays that support neither ClearBlack nor Puremotion HD+ "technology" (and ask the same of Android users while you're at it).
3) I have no idea what camera tech the iPhone5 will include. If they end up with a higher MP count then happily admit they have you beat when it comes to the number of underexposed and blurry pixels they can jam into a photograph. Apple will not out-do the Lumia 920's camera image quality in this hardware cycle.
I think the WP community was hoping for something that indisputably and unequivocally blows the competition out of the water. Spec-wise and feature-wise. I think most people didn't/don't have any specific idea of what that might be, but were hoping to recognize it when they saw it, which they didn't. That is where most of the disappointment comes from.
The way the event was setup, we were all bound to be disappointed, because the simple fact is that smartphone innovation today is software and not hardware driven, and the OS was not shown.

On the other hand, HTC won't have any compelling software exclusives, and their hardware won't have any of the innovative touches and accessories the Lumia's have (ClearBlack displays, PureView camera, NFC enabled accessories, etc).

I have to comment on this very well written and thought out post - I think you hit the nail on the head with the highlighted bit...

The core count is not as bad as people think. WP8 does not need quad core, the dual core Krait outperforms the latest quad core in the GS3 - it is a next gen chipset and combined with WP8 software optimisations, your WP8 phone will feel smooth and fast

I have a SG3 running ICS, and I was looking at the Lumia 900 yesterday, trying to get a feel for the size of the 920 and I have to say that the 900 felt far snappier to me than my SG3, especially when I compared the maps function, scrolling through the maps and the refresh rate was noticeably better on the 900, I was surprised by how much.

Now I know there is the JB update coming which might help, and google have project butter which is supposed to be very good, but like for like yesterday, the 900 felt quicker/snappier when sliding through the different apps and we all know how well thought out the metro GUI is, and I say that as a hardcore android user. My issue over WP7 or WP7.5 was never metro, it was that the OS was crippled in too many ways that would mean too many compromises for me to consider it.

That is where WP8 is exciting, good GUI, but with Win 8 really ramping up cloud support, my test rig running W8 and Office 2013 have really opened my eyes to how seriously MS are taking cloud support now. With the common interface between my PC, my phone and my tablet (I want a surface device) I can see that for the first time switching devices on the go suddenly becomes a much more seamless experience. That is a first for anyone and IMHO, the most amazing must have feature.

Im 95% sure I will get a Lumia 920, I have issues over its size, and no SD card support, would have liked a bigger 4.8 screen as Im used to my SG3 now, but Im concerned that I will lose too much if I get a non nokia device
The integration of the maps/city lens/drive is a Nokia function that I like. On my S3, if I want AR, I have to switch from maps and open Goggles, on Nokia, all I have to do is change the angle I hold the phone, simple, but pure genius.

If I thought that Sammy or HTC were going to put as much effort into WP8 as they have into developing touchwiz or sense for Android, then I would consider them for WP8. Sadly, though HTC might surprise us, the only people who have put that much effort into app integration so far are Nokia, and for all my gripes over hardware or missing specs, I know that 6 months in, it is the usability that will count, and Nokia have a clear lead there.

so Im going back to my spreadsheet with all my Android apps and data sources and working out the WP8 equivalents so Im as prepared as I can be for launch day where I suspect I will be the owner of a new 920, for all the above reasons..

 

[a5cent]

I disagree. If Nokia goes under, and other OEMs aren't doing enough for the brand, Microsoft will buy their manufacturing at fire sale prices during the bankruptcy and use it to make a Surface Phone.
<snipped>
Microsoft needs this as part of its greater ecosystem, so it's not going to let WP die.

Then we must agree to disagree.

If Nokia goes under, the entire industry will blame WP and Microsoft for it and conclude WP is a hopeless cause. In the public's view, WP would loose all credibility as a viable third ecosystem (nobody likes loser's and nobody want's to invest in a dying platform). That would be a PR nightmare from which even Microsoft is unlikely to recover.

HTC would be utterly powerless to do anything at this point and probably avoid touching WP even with a ten foot pole.

Instead, Microsoft is far more likely to just increase the flow of money already going into Nokia's life support system. This would happen long before Nokia actually faces the risk of bankruptcy.

I am optimistic Nokia can succeed, but the fate of WP and Nokia are now inseparably linked.

 

[brmiller1976]

I am excited for what HTC is delivering.

Nokia's been all hype, no substance. It took months for the Lumia 900 to ship, and it was on the market for less time than it took to ship before Microsoft announced it would be orphaned.

When it shipped, it was underwhelming. It had an LTE bug, a DREADFUL camera (easily one of the worst I've ever used -- the HTC Radar's 5 MP shooter takes better photos), and all sorts of strange behavior (including a delay in sound such as when you plug it in).

It was big, heavy, and cheap-feeling.

It was supposed to be the hero phone that would restore viability to WP, yet sold a pathetic 300,000 units in the USA before falling off of AT&T's top ten list in only about two quarters' time.

HTC, in contrast, has a history of shipping strong hardware that performs well. No BS promises, no faked videos and photographs, no smoke and mirrors. The Titan II was a far superior phone to the Lumia 900 despite all the hype around the latter.

I have no doubt they'll smoke Nokia by delivering something solid, well-built, and without hype and BS. It will have the key features like MicroSD and a real, removable battery that Nokia skipped out on. And it will probably be available in key permutations across several carriers, rather than Nokia's ridiculous carrier exclusives out of 2006.

We need both HTC and Samsung to succeed in building and selling compelling Windows Phones if we want the ecosystem to survive Nokia's inevitable bankruptcy.

 

[independentvolume]

Call me greedy, but I want Nokia to fail and Microsoft to buy them out.

 

[cp2_4eva]

Ouch. I like my HTC phones as well asi type this from my Titan 2, but sheeesh why the Nokia hate? I just want WP to grow on prosper amongst the smartphone ranks. I'm sure HTC will provide a great device. I'm just scared as to how the support will be after I possibly buy their WP8 device. And if rumors are true, then I'll have to wait for the Zenith months down the road? C'mon man!

Sent from my PI86100 using Board Express

 

[Reflexx]

Hating Nokia is like hating the popular kids in school.

 

[12Danny123]

Call me greedy, but I want Nokia to fail and Microsoft to buy them out.

In your dreams man

 

[12Danny123]

Ouch. I like my HTC phones as well asi type this from my Titan 2, but sheeesh why the Nokia hate? I just want WP to grow on prosper amongst the smartphone ranks. I'm sure HTC will provide a great device. I'm just scared as to how the support will be after I possibly buy their WP8 device. And if rumors are true, then I'll have to wait for the Zenith months down the road? C'mon man!

Sent from my PI86100 using Board Express

Not true. They release two titans devices every year. and the 8X is not a titan. the One X wp is a titan and deserves that name

 

[cp2_4eva]

But will they release it at the same time as the Accord? I hope so, but I heard that it won't be. That's just rumors though. Sep. 19 we shall hear more news.

Sent from my PI86100 using Board Express

 

[12Danny123]

But will they release it at the same time as the Accord? I hope so, but I heard that it won't be. That's just rumors though. Sep. 19 we shall hear more news.

Sent from my PI86100 using Board Express

Well they did say they are going big for wp8. so they have to release a high end device. HTc knows the Wp competition. so they need to compete

 

[SnailUK]

From the leaks, the top HTC will match the 920/ativ s on basic spec. Can't see it exceeding either, or adding anything revolutionary hardware wise.

Be interesting to see what they do with the software.

Sent from my HD7 T9292 using Board Express

 

[12Danny123]

From the leaks, the top HTC will match the 920/ativ s on basic spec. Can't see it exceeding either, or adding anything revolutionary hardware wise.

Be interesting to see what they do with the software.

Sent from my HD7 T9292 using Board Express

I think for the software they are use that Giant Clock on HTC sense but it's actually the HTC hub with a giant clock on top of it and the weather on the background.

 

[johnmcd348]

Do you really need external storage support when you have 32gb of storage on the phone? Genuine question, I had 64gb in total on my N97 and never used more than 20...

External storage is probably one of the most wanted items for me. Granted, I came from "The Old Days" of using the HP iPaq and Dell Axim PDAs that had dual slots. 1 for the common CF card and another for the newer SD card so I could be compatible with nearly anything out there except those people who insisted on using the Sony format cards.

I like the idea of being able to put a couple or a few movies on my phone for future playback. Just as an example of the need for large capacity. These Smartphones are at the beginning of becoming a replacement for our Desktops and Laptop units. give it time and I can see the increase need for both onboard and swappable memory as a standard on these devices.

I can still remember when a $500+ dollar option for a 5mb(Megabyte) hard drive was a luxury on my original Acer 710XT(8088 4.77-10Mhz PC). Now It's not uncommon to be running 1 Terabyte HD's in our PC's. As these devices increase in popularity/commonality, the things it will be asked to do will also increase. That, will make the need for ever increasing size of apps and programs for it.

Look at the new WP8 kernel. It in and of itself is the same OS that was on our computers 10-15 years ago. think about the size and complexity of software at that time. Again, I won't be surprised if this newer OS, working in conjunction with the newer Desktop/Tablet/Laptop OS won't become much bigger than it already is.

Just my thoughts.

 

[fraincs]

Do you really need external storage support when you have 32gb of storage on the phone? Genuine question, I had 64gb in total on my N97 and never used more than 20...

I do, my phone is always full since I am a big fan of music and while having a Zune pass I like to store my music on my phone and since in Canada we don't have unlimited data, I can't stream all the time while driving or on the bus.

 

[snowmutt]

I am excited for what HTC is delivering.

Nokia's been all hype, no substance. It took months for the Lumia 900 to ship, and it was on the market for less time than it took to ship before Microsoft announced it would be orphaned.

When it shipped, it was underwhelming. It had an LTE bug, a DREADFUL camera (easily one of the worst I've ever used -- the HTC Radar's 5 MP shooter takes better photos), and all sorts of strange behavior (including a delay in sound such as when you plug it in).

It was big, heavy, and cheap-feeling.

It was supposed to be the hero phone that would restore viability to WP, yet sold a pathetic 300,000 units in the USA before falling off of AT&T's top ten list in only about two quarters' time.

HTC, in contrast, has a history of shipping strong hardware that performs well. No BS promises, no faked videos and photographs, no smoke and mirrors. The Titan II was a far superior phone to the Lumia 900 despite all the hype around the latter.

I have no doubt they'll smoke Nokia by delivering something solid, well-built, and without hype and BS. It will have the key features like MicroSD and a real, removable battery that Nokia skipped out on. And it will probably be available in key permutations across several carriers, rather than Nokia's ridiculous carrier exclusives out of 2006.

We need both HTC and Samsung to succeed in building and selling compelling Windows Phones if we want the ecosystem to survive Nokia's inevitable bankruptcy.

Well, no gray area there....

Two disagreements with your posts, understanding it is your opinion and I respect it and am NOT trying to change it, just bring out a couple of facts for as Paul Harvey used to say is the rest of the story..

Nokia released updates to their devices to fix problems, offered a rebate as compensation, and has continued to maintain that they will support the 900 for inside of two years with app support and updates. No defending the poor camera, but it was their first attempt at a high end WP. I mark it up as lessons learned.

HTC released the Titan, it had audio and performance problems that have plagued those owners from day one and has gotten worse and worse, is among the last to even get Tango update out which is minor (no blaming AT&T- Samsung devices and the 900 have it), there has been no support, and no promise of support. Heck, taking a page from Android they released the Titan 2 less than 6 months later and then completely ignored Titan 1 owners.

Because of HTC's past with good devices on WP (Arrive, Trophy, the Titan 2) I am willing to give them a look see on WP8. But support better than Nokia? I do not think so.

However, I am glad you believe in them. Makes me want to give a chance, which is why I started this thread. I WANT to believe in HTC.

I really showed my age with that Paul Harvey reference, didn't I???

 

[Mahesha999]

Anyone excited for the official HTC announcements? I am really liking the glimpse of what Nokia and Samsung have to offer so far. There have been enough rumors to make me step up and keep an eye open for what HTC has coming. I WANT to believe they will begin to turn around their fortunes by launching great devices for WP 8. I WANT to...

Yeah one thing is sure, Quad core one is surely coming 100% sure. No no innovative things will come. No significant camera technology.