One good reason why Duo is a good idea

[anon(10617482)]

Can anyone give me one good reason why using a flagship Surface branded device to shine a spotlight on Android and Google Play is a good thing?

 

[Grimlock]

I'm not claiming to know the full MS strategy here, but they have basically conceded the smartphone market and are no longer direct competitors to Android. Instead of getting completely shut out they are keeping their foot in the door by making software for android (i.e. Ms office).

And yes, they are shining spotlight on Android and Google play, they have now become the top hardware maker on the Android side in my opinion. I like the pixel and Samsung phones but I don't think they even come close to surface hardware when it comes to overall attention to detail and build quality.

As creative as Google can be as a company they simply can't hang with the surface team when it comes to hardware. MS positioning themselves to be Google's best hardware designers is pretty crazy if you think about it.

Just a couple thoughts to try and get a discussion going, but I definitely had a similar feeling as you when they first announced it.

 

[justjun555]

because there is no space for 3rd mobile os in the market. App gap curse would make any new os doomed at start.
thanks to android surface duo doesn't suffer from app gap. now it's upto Microsoft to heavily skin their android version which is offers unique and different experience compared to generic android experience & through terrific surface hardware they can build their own niche in premium smartphone segment.

 

[Drael646464]

Yes, I can, and it's simple.

A 'big' operating system trying to become 'an everything' operating system can only achieve this by slowly bridging across to 'small'. Essentially 'shrinking'.

The last, smallest, successful hardware version was the surface go. But it was not an all touch device, rather an either or.

The next obvious iteration is 'Surface Neo', a primarily touch device with a small form factor. One might add to this 'win 10x' as probably the real start point for cross hardware support, being successful.

They need each successive 'shrink' to be successful in order to drive development in the direction of different modes of input and output.

Phone just isn't baked yet. So instead of ceeding the whole market, microsoft have entered a placeholder. Something that 'get's their foot in the door', within the market, gets them brand recognised, and a loyalty.

Should they never succeed in the domain with windows 10, that's enough. And should dual screen, and folding screens be successful, as well as PWA, then they will have the app base to launch an all windows phone.

Launching this device lets the also create a 'best experience on', for smartphone streaming of xcloud, as well as potentially bake cortana and microsoft services deeper into android than with third party devices.

They can also capitalize on their partnerships with samsung by offering better my phone intergration, and some kind of Dex like experience.

If they can capture just two markets - gamers, and enterprise users, to some degree, they have their market primed for when windows core is ready for the big stage.

 

[Ryujingt3]

I'm just happy to see MS back in the mobile space with the Duo, sure, it's with Android, but if BlackBerry can do it, or Nokia, then Microsoft surely can. Hopefully they have also learnt from Samsung's mistakes with the Fold. I want one.

 

[Drael646464]

I'm just happy to see MS back in the mobile space with the Duo, sure, it's with Android, but if BlackBerry can do it, or Nokia, then Microsoft surely can. Hopefully they have also learnt from Samsung's mistakes with the Fold. I want one.

I find the fold story really amusing. Microsoft and Samsung co-developed, and co-patented the OLED flexible graphene screen back during balmer. Microsoft have the tech patents to make a flexible plastic, non-graphene screen if they choose to. They are distinctly choosing not to. It's an overt 'no thanks, you go for it'. That to me, sends warning alarms about how that all might go down for samsung.

 

[sd4f]

I was wrong, I never thought they'd go android, I thought that a 'phone' of sorts was well and truly cancelled.

With that said, I still maintain my position that I'll wait and see. The device is quite reliant on software to be effective, and we'll wait and see how others respond. I get the feeling the foldables might struggle to gain some traction, they'll be too expensive for people to just beta test, and developers are already burnt out with the phone platforms.

 

[Drael646464]

I was wrong, I never thought they'd go android, I thought that a 'phone' of sorts was well and truly cancelled.

With that said, I still maintain my position that I'll wait and see. The device is quite reliant on software to be effective, and we'll wait and see how others respond. I get the feeling the foldables might struggle to gain some traction, they'll be too expensive for people to just beta test, and developers are already burnt out with the phone platforms.

That's where I reckon the duo might be a smarter play. It should be less expensive, and if done right has a niche (business, note users, and perhaps xcloud gaming).

But there are some major issues the hype machine doesn't recognise - early investors of premium high expense technology tend to be just people with both the use case, and the pockets - typically enterprise, power users, creatives etc. There's no real market for a 2k galaxy fold that you just use to watch youtube videos on the train. It's not a mainstream thing. It will be one day, but not until the price point is significantly lower, and the tech more mature.

Secondly - the plastic ones I think will find major issues in the real world. Really we are still at least half a decade from affordable graphene tech, if not more, and this folding screen bizo is very much 'trying to get in before it's big', it's beta stuff, as you say. The 'real' folding screens are a ways away.

I'm not so sure about the developers thing though. I think somewhere they might realize that adaptive technology is in our future much like AR and VR are. It's kind of tricky though because there's also the 'cloud' instinct, and those directions pull in opposite directions - you don't generally develop PWA's or similar for more than a few screen sizes, and not typically for weird outputs like dual screen, or VR.

 

[dpz]

My guess is that they are going to encourage developers to utilize Xamarin or some other Universal code that will work for dual screen devices. Then they'll take those apps and make it work through a container (or maybe directly) on Windows 10X.
That way, in the end, any app that is made for Duo will work for Neo.

If this is the plan, then the question will become: Will it work?

 

[Grimlock]

This is a quote from Nadella that summarizes their strategy:

"The operating system is no longer the most important layer for us ... What is most important for us is the app model and the experience. How people are going to write apps for Duo and Neo will have a lot more to do with each other than just writing a Windows app or an Android app, because it’s going to be about the Microsoft graph."

 

[slbailey1]

A heavily skinned device will doom it because it cannot keep up with the OS version updates.

 

[winwrite]

Microsoft committed software adultery with Android for the sake of apps. If, and only if, Microsoft plans to come out with a future phone - yes, the Duo IS a phone - a future Duo with Windows OS, then this is forgivable. By the time this present Duo with Android actually is released in 2020, newer more powerful chips will exist along with 5G, a near zero latency cloud, and more such that a modified Windows OS (not a limited mobile OS) can work inside the smaller Duo. Therefore, the user can get all the apps in the dual screen phone that a regular PC has. And Windows has time to bring in Android apps as well which would be verified to work and be SAFE. It is central (no pun intended) to Microsoft to have a sizable presence in the cell phone market and whatever succeeds phones as individuals personal mobile devices. To just outright award Android mobile devices would also give Android the rest of the OS market where presently Windows still is dominate. That spells the end of Windows period. Microsoft is a software company. Alphabet would have everything. No more Microsoft. Apple would be gone too. Windows is a better software and does many things better. Microsoft simply needs to market much better. Yes, get tons of apps. Establish healthy, productive relationships with carriers. Be first rate in customer support. And for Christ's sake do Windows!

 

[Drael646464]

This is a quote from Nadella that summarizes their strategy:

"The operating system is no longer the most important layer for us ... What is most important for us is the app model and the experience. How people are going to write apps for Duo and Neo will have a lot more to do with each other than just writing a Windows app or an Android app, because it’s going to be about the Microsoft graph."

Presumably they'll make the app model that works well with the duo fundamentally easy to port or straight compile, or run as a web app, between the two devices. That way anything designed for a dual screen can run on both, and isn't truely tied to the operating system.

 

[Drael646464]

A heavily skinned device will doom it because it cannot keep up with the OS version updates.

Do you think regular users really care about android software updates tho? I'm not even a regular user, and I definitely don't.

 

[mtf1380]

I know of a lot of very good people that use Android and iOS, by choice; and between the two I personally have leaned toward iOS because they value privacy but, they are also a money pit...so that is a deal breaker. Android has always given me the impression of that person that when left I a house unattended, the first thing they do is start looking through bedroom drawers...that is, and always will be, a deal breaker; that and all the friggin ads...damn!

I have no problem with all OS's having a standard that all third party apps will work on - this is needed for future IoT product development - but, I expect MS to build into the Duo protection of privacy and the MS way of receiving OS Updates.

I like the split screen concept much better that the one screen folded in half, it replicates my main 3-screen Desktop computer that I use for any serious productivity. Plus, you just know that a plastic screen is not going to last long (scratches, deep fold cracking), whereas the dual guerilla glass should last for ever. I just hope the Duo has a great camera, waterproof, can work with a pen, navigates like a Windows' phone and works with all 3rd party products (especially security cameras). I am excited about the Duo, I just hope my 950XL will last until I can get one.

 

[Dwarf_King]

because... Android? Because.... apps? Because.... One Android device among billions? Because.... It will drown in the amount of Android devices? Eh... yeah....